How about a bit of support for our keeper?

[hogesar 9,757]

9 hours ago, king canary said:

I dont think most peoples issue with McGovern is how he played tonight.

In general, when he has played, he's looked like an ok shot stopper but weak in the air, poor on the deck and generally a bit a liability. Yeah no number 2 will be as good as Krul but in my opinion the drop off from Krul to McGovern is bigger than any other between a start and his back up in our squad.

Thing is, the drop off is mostly because Krul is probably the best keeper in the league and wouldn't be out of place starting in a prem side (ironically we're talking about player opinions and people on here have generally been wrong on Krul twice over). McGovern has obvious flaws in his play and a lot of that comes from him being small for a goalkeeper. However, I'm not sure there's a whole host of better number 2 options for a championship side - if there were i'm sure we'd have considered it.

[seanthecanary 168]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

However, I'm not sure there's a whole host of better number 2 options for a championship side - if there were i'm sure we'd have considered it.

Like I said in my comment earlier. I'm not entirely sure what the overall standard of 2nd choice keepers is in the champs but I doubt it's brimming with top keepers

[Nuff Said 5,178]

8 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It would be his first full competitive match since 15th November, when he played 90 minutes against Austria in the Nations League?

Fair point, but the gist of the argument, that he is hardly match fit, still stands.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Fair point, but the gist of the argument, that he is hardly match fit, still stands.

I just think he has never been of the required standard, and due to his age and years without competitive football he is probably past his peak as well. 

Bit irritating seeing people keep pointing out that he's a Northern Ireland international so must be good... Adrian Coote was a Northern Ireland international 🤣

None of this McGovern's fault, we've just decided not to invest in an up and coming number 2 as a Krul succession plan. I think this may be partly due to us rating Aston Oxborough who is out injured. 

Look at Bournemouth, always seem to have their next keeper coming through. Were happy to sell Ramsdale as they believe Travers will be better. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[king canary 7,679]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Thing is, the drop off is mostly because Krul is probably the best keeper in the league and wouldn't be out of place starting in a prem side (ironically we're talking about player opinions and people on here have generally been wrong on Krul twice over). McGovern has obvious flaws in his play and a lot of that comes from him being small for a goalkeeper. However, I'm not sure there's a whole host of better number 2 options for a championship side - if there were i'm sure we'd have considered it.

Not sure I agree.

In previous years we had Gilks, Rudd, Matthews and Steer as backups, all of whom I'd say were better options than McGovern. 

It also doesn't help that McGovern is so weak with the ball at his feet which is a key element of our game. 

[rock bus 854]

There's no doubt that the loss of Krul is a huge worry and that it could have a big impact on our season.

McGovern may be 'good enough' for the championship but the big thing that Tim Krul brings is confidence. You can literally see the character and strength shining out from him and bathing the defenders in front of him. It then results in all of them putting in a more assured performance.

Sadly, for whatever reason, it is literally the opposite with McGovern. He just sends out waves of panic amongst his defenders. He doesn't have the same presence and brings uncertainty to the whole defence. Even yesterday's goals were examples, he wasn't at fault really for either. But he just stands there motionless and is reluctant to make any kind of movement or take any responsibility. That lack of commitment makes the defenders unsure so they also fail to challenge for the ball.

It could be a long few weeks!

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

26 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not sure I agree.

In previous years we had Gilks, Rudd, Matthews and Steer as backups, all of whom I'd say were better options than McGovern. 

It also doesn't help that McGovern is so weak with the ball at his feet which is a key element of our game. 

Could have had Matthews back on a free this summer.

Of that bunch it is Jed Steer who would be best suited for us as he's good with his feet, although he's Villa's number 2 now. Why swap being a Premier League number 2 to be a Championship number 2? 

I do wonder whether big John Ruddy might fancy this gig now though, loves Norwich and his wife is from here. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,863]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Thing is, the drop off is mostly because Krul is probably the best keeper in the league and wouldn't be out of place starting in a prem side (ironically we're talking about player opinions and people on here have generally been wrong on Krul twice over). McGovern has obvious flaws in his play and a lot of that comes from him being small for a goalkeeper. However, I'm not sure there's a whole host of better number 2 options for a championship side - if there were i'm sure we'd have considered it.

The funny think is, all online sources give McGovern's height as 6'2" or 6'3".

As a comparison, I checked Krul's height too, and all online sources vary between 6'2" and 6'4.

McGovern has never seemed aerially dominant to me either. Maybe it's just that his jumping and general agility isn't great?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

I think a footballer who logs onto a fan forum and gets upset at people criticising is probably a bit of an idiot to be honest.

In what way does that make him an idiot, Kingo? I think if there was a message board out there where many people were talking about and discussing yourself, then you’d have a look. No question. Wouldn’t make you an ‘idiot’. Likewise, say MM doesn’t read this message board (and some people are very good at resisting the temptation) - it doesn’t matter anyway as I’ll guarantee you that some of his family or friends will definitely do so, and he will get feedback whether he wants it or not.

[Michael Wynless Jones 161]

11 hours ago, ron obvious said:

If you simply stand your ground it's fine, but if you back into a player without having control of the ball it's a barge, & a foul 🤣

Totally agree, but he didn't do that, he flapped with no provocation at all. Perfectly good goal, but after all the crap decisions against us last season I'll take it. 

[hogesar 9,757]

23 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The funny think is, all online sources give McGovern's height as 6'2" or 6'3".

As a comparison, I checked Krul's height too, and all online sources vary between 6'2" and 6'4.

McGovern has never seemed aerially dominant to me either. Maybe it's just that his jumping and general agility isn't great?

There's no way he's near Krul's height. Unless he literally has midget arms. 

He isn't aerially dominant, and I don't think he's particularly strong. That won't help of course.

Saying that, it was pleasing he came and held on to some crosses during the Stoke onslaught, it would have been 'easier' and 'safer' to let the defenders deal with them but it really does relieve pressure.

[king canary 7,679]

15 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

In what way does that make him an idiot, Kingo? I think if there was a message board out there where many people were talking about and discussing yourself, then you’d have a look. No question. Wouldn’t make you an ‘idiot’. Likewise, say MM doesn’t read this message board (and some people are very good at resisting the temptation) - it doesn’t matter anyway as I’ll guarantee you that some of his family or friends will definitely do so, and he will get feedback whether he wants it or not.

I think it would make you an idiot as you're actively going looking for it when you know it is part and parcel of the job you chose.

If you go looking for it and it ends up hurting your confidence then you only have yourself to blame.  

[jaywick_canery 28]

There is no room for sentiment in a successful football team and this emotional defence of any 'loyal servant' won't win us games.

 

Bring in a youngster and let's move forward instead of turning back to the past.

[jaywick_canery 28]

40 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The funny think is, all online sources give McGovern's height as 6'2" or 6'3".

As a comparison, I checked Krul's height too, and all online sources vary between 6'2" and 6'4.

McGovern has never seemed aerially dominant to me either. Maybe it's just that his jumping and general agility isn't great?

I have stood next to him and he is 5' 11" at best.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

I wonder if Farke will adjust our tactics to accommodate MM's discomfort at playing out from the back. We don't really have the best options in the squad to be going long regularly, but it may be the lesser of two evils rather than being caught out at the back.

[Midlands Yellow 4,083]

13 hours ago, hogesar said:

No but every chance he will before the next match.

Todd will have warned him off this site.

[hogesar 9,757]

8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Todd will have warned him off this site.

Fair 😂

[ron obvious 1,514]

1 hour ago, Michael Wynless Jones said:

Totally agree, but he didn't do that, he flapped with no provocation at all. Perfectly good goal, but after all the crap decisions against us last season I'll take it. 

Well from what I saw he leapt for the ball & was knocked out of the way by the Stoke player turning into him as he jumped. McGovern's hands would have got their first if he hadn't have been knocked out of the way.

Krul would possibly have been strong enough to have got something on it. But preventing someone getting to the ball when you don't have control of it yourself is obstruction.

[Mason 47 1,403]

1 hour ago, jaywick_canery said:

I have stood next to him and he is 5' 11" at best.

One of the journos tweeted during pre season that he never remembered MM being so small next to Krul. 

Ever since he was signed I was under the impression he was about 6ft, similar to Mark Bunn (who consequently was very easy to beat using the bottom corners too).

Maybe he's contracted Bali Mumba Syndrome?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,863]

1 minute ago, Mason 47 said:

Maybe he's contracted Bali Mumba Syndrome?

Simultaneously 5'3" and 5'9" at the same time.

[shefcanary 2,465]

12 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Hmmm........... think back to the stellar full debuts of Andy Marshall and Robert Green. 

And Chris Woods at Forest before he joined us - League Cup Final where he was MOTM.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,810]

1 hour ago, Mason 47 said:

One of the journos tweeted during pre season that he never remembered MM being so small next to Krul. 

Ever since he was signed I was under the impression he was about 6ft, similar to Mark Bunn (who consequently was very easy to beat using the bottom corners too).

Maybe he's contracted Bali Mumba Syndrome?

He sure did look pretty small next to some of the Stoke players the other night

 

But then again Stoke being the brick ****house team they are that does not mean too much

[WD40 720]

Farke has built a squad that should have the competition for places mantra drilled into them. Krul is impossible to replace, but McGovern will know if his performances drop Farke will have no problem dropping him for Barden. And Barden knows he has to take that opportunity if it comes. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I don;t think McGovern is easy to beat in the bottom corners as someone has remarked above. I think his shot stopping is his strength.

Where I worry about him is his presence and the fact that our defence, seemingly starting to get over their issues with dealing with crosses, needs a strong presence there. It concerns me that we immediately conceded from two headers last night and whilst neither were particulaly his fault on both occasions and for the disallowed goal he was so deep he was almost over his own goal line. When you watch the highlights of the recent game he played for NI the same is true although again in fairness not at fault for the goal. Clearly he is a keeper that doesn;t like to come for crosses and our defence need to work that out very quickly and not rely on his doing so.

That said, he was superb for NI in the Euros a few years ago.

 

 

[sgncfc 1,259]

I'd like to think that our manager knows better than anyone about whether he should play McGovern or Barden on Saturday. If Krul is out for 6 weeks or so that could be 12 games, so whoever starts the next game is likely to stay there for that period.

Everyone moans about McGovern but apart from that one shocker against Brighton a few years ago I can't really remember him being hugely at fault for anything. Just going on about how small he is (wrong) and how he doesn't inspire confidence in his defence (also wrong, according to Farke) is just ill-informed garbage. Tell me when he cost us points?

The young Stoke keeper last night is an England under 21 international - he faced 3 shots on target and let in 3 goals. I would have wanted him to do better with the first two goals - he got his angles wrong for both. McGovern faced 7 and let in 2. The bombardment was fully aerial because we dropped so deep (not our goalkeepers fault) and almost worked on the night - but it wouldn't work over a full game because the defence would never drop that deep with 11 men. The two he did let in were from errors made by Sorensen and Zimmermann both being comfortably beaten in the air.

Stoke are a good team at this level. Even at 3-0 we were never comfortable and in the first half Krul and Stieperman both saved certain goals plus they hit the bar with Krul beaten. Winning that game was a fantastic result and McGovern played his part.

 

[jaywick_canery 28]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Simultaneously 5'3" and 5'9" at the same time.

Stiletto screw in studs can add inches as can Elton John platform soles.

[ron obvious 1,514]

Just seen the Stoke manager's interview. 

He thought our keeper was probably fouled for their disallowed goal.

Yet we have Norwich 'fans' coming on here saying there was absolutely, categorically no foul.

My contempt for their 'support' knows no limits.

[vos 155]

Thought McGovern was OK. Lack of match time will require time to gel in with the short ball to defenders, but lets be fair Tim frequently gives me the yips with some of his efforts. He nearly slipped up last night. The Stoke second goal was a poor one to concede. Free header but with five big Norwich defenders standing motionless behind him. The central defenders are generally commanding in the air but we remain dodgy from set pieces. On that subject Max looks a bit weak with high balls purely because of his lack of height. Big athletic defenders is the name of the game these days. Thought Martin looked very promising,

BUT there is no doubt Krul's shot stopping and experience will be missed. I do not think goalkeepers come off the line as much as they did in the past. Strong criticism of McGovern was over the top. For me for us to win successive games at Boro and Stoke is very encouraging.

[king canary 7,679]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Just seen the Stoke manager's interview. 

He thought our keeper was probably fouled for their disallowed goal.

Yet we have Norwich 'fans' coming on here saying there was absolutely, categorically no foul.

My contempt for their 'support' knows no limits.

What an odd overreaction.

You have contempt for them because they disagree with you over whether it was foul or not?

[ron obvious 1,514]

Just now, king canary said:

What an odd overreaction.

You have contempt for them because they disagree with you over whether it was foul or not?

No, because they are so prescriptive, so certain about their being in the right & scoffing at anyone who says it ain't actually that straightforward.