Centre Backs

[Doomcaster 10]

I am very happy Stuart Webber has brought in a few potential 1st Team players (most signings are not 1st team yet)

But we are still missing a RELIABLE fit & strong partnership at Centre Back

Hanley - Klosse - Zimmerman - all very injury prone, may play a few matches together or may not

Good to see Gibson in the squad - but he has played very few competitive matches - he may well get a few tweaks and muscles strains

I hope we sign another active & quality Centre Back, from a Champ or League 1 Club (or a loan from Prem) - we certainly have the cash available

To get into another bonkers situation were we need Tettey to play C/B would be beyond belief as a supporter 

[Gordon Bennett 789]

We have six centre halves at the moment, unless Godfrey is sold and Famewo loaned out I can’t see another being added to the squad in this window. I’d have thought five is what we will end up with when it slams shut. 

[Move Klose 303]

Hopefully Godfrey stays and we work on a Godfrey Gibson partnership.

Cant rely on Klose and Hanley with their Injury record. And Zimmermann seems to have put in some very off performances since promotion although he had his injury problems too.

Gibson has come in as the number 1 that's obvious, and if Godfrey was to leave I would hope that we look to replace him.

[Doomcaster 10]

Not worried about how many we have - totally irrelevant

Tettey C/B - absolutely never ever again

Very concerned about how many of the 6 can stay fit - I suggest 2 or at best 3

Klosse - Hanley - Zimmerman = very injury prone

Gibson = we need to wait & see how he does when he plays competitive matches after a few years

Need a reliable C/B partnership - we can afford a new & more reliable C/B no problem

[All the Germans 1,081]

It would be madness to buy another central defender(s) unless some are leaving or we are going to try 4 centre backs per game. I'm interested in your medical diagnosis that Zimmerman - in particular - and Hanley are very injury prone. What is this based upon? My recollection for Zimmerman is him being absolutely a beast that never missed any games, apart from last season.

[hogesar 9,724]

I don't get that Zimmerman having one injury then compounded on his return by an awful Haller challenge suddenly makes him injury prone.

[Gordon Bennett 789]

21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I don't get that Zimmerman having one injury then compounded on his return by an awful Haller challenge suddenly makes him injury prone.

It just seems to be a bandwagon that people like to jump on unfortunately. 

It would be nice to think that Famewo could develop like Godfrey/ Aarons / Lewis did two seasons ago and be one a first tan regular. Certainly seems highly thought of. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Move Klose said:

Hopefully Godfrey stays and we work on a Godfrey Gibson partnership.

What, we're just going to drop our captain and best centre back to the bench?

[pete 320]

Sorenson can play CB and would probably be second tallest at 6' 2".  No need for another CB.

[king canary 7,654]

1 hour ago, Doomcaster said:

I am very happy Stuart Webber has brought in a few potential 1st Team players (most signings are not 1st team yet)

But we are still missing a RELIABLE fit & strong partnership at Centre Back

Hanley - Klosse - Zimmerman - all very injury prone, may play a few matches together or may not

Good to see Gibson in the squad - but he has played very few competitive matches - he may well get a few tweaks and muscles strains

I hope we sign another active & quality Centre Back, from a Champ or League 1 Club (or a loan from Prem) - we certainly have the cash available

To get into another bonkers situation were we need Tettey to play C/B would be beyond belief as a supporter 

Signing another central defender would be insane at this point.

Gibson will be starting, Godfrey and Zimmerman seemingly competeing to be alongside him.

Klose/Hanley as 4th/5th choice is luxury.

To then add another body would make no sense, especially if we think Famewo can step up if needed. 

[Capt. Pants 4,275]

If Aarons goes then it's RB we will need to strengthen. We are well stocked on CBs if they all can stay fit.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

unless Godfrey goes, then I don't see the point. Anyone we bring in would be a gamble so we're not going to improve the side realistically.

Even if you write off Hanley and Klose we still have Zimmermann who is proven at this level, the first choice partnership of the "2 bens" and then Quintilla/Sorenson that are comfortable there as well. Famewo will be perfectly adequate 4th/5th choice if it gets to that.

All about putting faith in Gibson now and getting him firing again. I did see Ayala is still without a club though...

[Nuff Said 5,173]

Some people won’t be happy until we have a team of Krul and 10 centre backs.

[Move Klose 303]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

What, we're just going to drop our captain and best centre back to the bench?

 

[Move Klose 303]

Just now, Move Klose said:

 

Who are we talking about Hanley?

Hes always injured, cant rely on to him to stay fit for 10 games

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

We aren't going to sign another centre half without one going out first. We have to remember Quintilla and Tettey are both noted as having played there in a pinch. 

[Move Klose 303]

4 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

We aren't going to sign another centre half without one going out first. We have to remember Quintilla and Tettey are both noted as having played there in a 

This might be an unpopular opinion but I personally dont think Zimmermann is good enough to be starting games, decent back up, hanley although our best defender spends too much time injured. Klose is past it and the same as Hanley has spent more time in the treatment room.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

1 hour ago, Gordon Bennett said:

It just seems to be a bandwagon that people like to jump on unfortunately. 

It would be nice to think that Famewo could develop like Godfrey/ Aarons / Lewis did two seasons ago and be one a first tan regular. Certainly seems highly thought of. 

It’s not a bandwagon so much as a reflection of a defence that has leaked far too many soft goals for several seasons. Even when we got promoted the goals against column made grim reading. 
 

now that might be the style or coaching but injuries almost certainly play a part. And, for my money, both Hanley and Klose seem incapable of playing a season without injury. This leaves us with three dependable CBs one of whom is arguably a CDM in any case. 
 

I would have liked to see Hanley and Klose moved on and another CB purchased to join Gibson and Zimmo. I have nothing against the injury prone duo but I think their best days are behind them now. 
 

PS- would love them to prove me wrong this season 

[Gordon Bennett 789]

59 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s not a bandwagon so much as a reflection of a defence that has leaked far too many soft goals for several seasons. Even when we got promoted the goals against column made grim reading. 
 

now that might be the style or coaching but injuries almost certainly play a part. And, for my money, both Hanley and Klose seem incapable of playing a season without injury. This leaves us with three dependable CBs one of whom is arguably a CDM in any case. 
 

I would have liked to see Hanley and Klose moved on and another CB purchased to join Gibson and Zimmo. I have nothing against the injury prone duo but I think their best days are behind them now. 
 

PS- would love them to prove me wrong this season 

Me and hoegsar were talking about the ‘Zimmerman is injury prone’ bandwagon. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

1 hour ago, Move Klose said:

This might be an unpopular opinion but I personally dont think Zimmermann is good enough to be starting games, decent back up, hanley although our best defender spends too much time injured. Klose is past it and the same as Hanley has spent more time in the treatment room.

I'm a Zimmer-fan (sorry not sorry). I think he's a solid option who lost out big time last season on a chance to prove he can run with the big boys. 

I am concerned by Hanley and Klose both being injured again, though. I think if Godfrey moves on, we have a decision to make about whether we replace him or not. I would like to see Famewo given a shot, I have to say.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Terminally Yellow

[NeymarSmith 132]

I think it should be zimbo and Ben Godfrey to start as first choice partnership. Hands down the best we have.

If Godfrey goes then give Gibson a shout (although Hanley could be back by then and is club captain) 

But I feel zimbo and godfrey should start

[Indy_Bones 441]

3 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

and then Quintilla/Sorenson that are comfortable there as well.

Sorry, but will people stop insisting that Quintilla/Sorenson are perfectly good as CB's, when in their entire careers they've played there a total of NINE and TEN times individually.

I'm not saying they may not be able to cover there should push come to shove, but they're absolutely NOT CB's, have rarely played there, and should only be used there if ALL our primary CB's were somehow missing and we were desperate.

It's like playing Andy Hughes at RB and Doherty at CF, and I don't think many were clamouring for either to take those roles for us, or claiming they were just as useable there as players that actually play that role consistently.

PS, not having a personal dig at you over this TJ, just getting tired of these comments with little to actually support them, which fits in nicely with the idea that somehow Zimm is injury prone, when he's hardly missed a game in the past 3-4 years apart from last season where he was injured, rushed back, then knobbled.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,852]

1 hour ago, Indy_Bones said:

Sorry, but will people stop insisting that Quintilla/Sorenson are perfectly good as CB's, when in their entire careers they've played there a total of NINE and TEN times individually.

I was going to say more or less the same thing. 

Last season we were forced into round pegs in square holes at centre back and everyone was complaining that it ruined our season, yet this summer we have several people commenting on how we're going to be fine because we have players like Sorensen who can cover at centre back in an emergency.

I don't get it.

[king canary 7,654]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I was going to say more or less the same thing. 

Last season we were forced into round pegs in square holes at centre back and everyone was complaining that it ruined our season, yet this summer we have several people commenting on how we're going to be fine because we have players like Sorensen who can cover at centre back in an emergency.

I don't get it.

Because at this point for either of them to be there we'd have to have four of Gibson, Zimbo, Godfrey, Klose and Hanley out at once and that is before we count Famweo

I think we have to accept that if luck has put you in a position that your relying on your 6th/7th choice central defender then they likely will be someone filling in from another position.

 

[king canary 7,654]

4 hours ago, Move Klose said:

This might be an unpopular opinion but I personally dont think Zimmermann is good enough to be starting games, decent back up, hanley although our best defender spends too much time injured. Klose is past it and the same as Hanley has spent more time in the treatment room.

I'm kind of with you on Zimmerman. Great guy, solid enough defender but he'd be 3rd choice for me.

[yellowrider120 782]

Agree with some of the comments on Zimmerman. The fact that he's clearly a great club guy and 'leads by example' doesn't automatically correlate with being a good defender. He turns like the Titanic and is like Bassong with the ball at his feet in that you never really know what he's going to do. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,852]

In defence of Zimmermann, he was a regular for us when we won this division two years ago. I'd personally say Godfrey and Gibson is the best combination, but that isn't to say that Zimmermann isn't good enough to start games regularly.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,151]

Any new signings we bring in now before anyone else leaves will be nice to haves. We don't have an area of the pitch that we need to add back up and we can't afford better quality replacements for our first choices right now. Even McGovern is pretty good by Championship backup standards.

Our central midfield worries me slightly, we have McLean who will reliably do a good job every week, but then Skipp and Sorensen are unproven gambles that could go either way, Tettey could very easily get injured and Rupp not cut out for English football. If the two young lads don't work out we may need another permanent signing there but aside from that we should be done now. 

[chicken 2,640]

2 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Agree with some of the comments on Zimmerman. The fact that he's clearly a great club guy and 'leads by example' doesn't automatically correlate with being a good defender. He turns like the Titanic and is like Bassong with the ball at his feet in that you never really know what he's going to do. 

For me, there is also more. Last season it was clear what a difference he and Hanley made when fit. Him more so I would argue. They know their roles and are able to lead the back four.

As much praise as Godfrey got, he was caught out on many occasions. He has pace and can play the ball like a midfielder, but considering his height, he also wasn't the best in the air.

It's another reason I hate talking about individual comparisons.

Malky Mackay is a well loved figure, often lamented about for having been let go when promoted to the Premier League and held aloft as an all time great defender. I don't disagree in many ways. However, one has to consider that defending was his strength. Good in the air, ruthless in the tackle and decent positional sense. Malky, however, was never gifted with speed. If Zimbo turns like the Titanic, then I'm not sure where that puts Malky and as for his passing... well, lets just say anything more than a 10yrd pass was a hoof.

He was great because he could lead, and he formed part of one of the meanest defences we have seen in the last 20 years. The partnership he had with Fleming had it all. Fleming wasn't the tallest but he could defend. Having started as a full back he could also pass and was the quicker of the two. Add Drury into the equation and eventually Edworthy and you had a solid defence.

That is what we have missed and are still looking for. But that's no real surprise when you consider that all of our defenders bar Klose had been introduced to the side or signed since the arrival of Farke.

Klose joined in 2016.
Hanley and Zimmerman in 2017.
Godfrey was introduced to the side in the 2018-19 season, his first as a CB.

As others have said, Hanley and Klose have struggled to stay fit in their time at Norwich. In fact, Godfrey came into that side in 2018 as a result of those two being injured. Worth noting that it was Aarons first season in the side too.

Comparatively, Mackay and Fleming had a good few years run at it together, settled and injury free. I suspect Zimbo in the side more consistently last season would at least have put us a good 6 points better off. It may also have helped the drying up of the goals too with a steadier hand at the back.

Comparing him to Bassong is a real disservice, he is far more reliable and I have seen him hit balls as well and as true as Godfrey. Where he has got into issues is when we play too intricately and he hasn't got that twist or burst of pace that Aarons, Godfrey or Lewis have to get them out of trouble. But to be fair, they have all been at fault for similar last season. Aarons cutting inside, in line with his own penalty area, only to gift the ball straight to a striker to score from. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In defence of Zimmermann, he was a regular for us when we won this division two years ago. I'd personally say Godfrey and Gibson is the best combination, but that isn't to say that Zimmermann isn't good enough to start games regularly.

You seriously going to put somebody who hasn't played for 2 years ahead of Zimmermann, who during that two years captained us to the Championship title and came 2nd to Pukki but ahead of Buendia in our fans player of the season award in the same season? During a season when Gibson played just 5 games? 

I can't help but feel that his both incredibly harsh on Zimmermann and giving praise to Gibson well before he has earned it. 

I mean, that may prove to be the case, but you know when fans write players off after 2 or 3 games? You are doing the polar opposite, which i can't help but feel is just as bad.

The reality is that Gibson is a bit of a risk, a bit of an unknown, a gamble which may pay off big time. That's why he's on loan (presumably with an option to buy) and not here on a 3 year deal. Farke said that Drmic was worth the gamble as well, that one didn't pay off. Before Drmic it was Krul, that one did. 

Ben Gibson has played 6 games in two years, and during that two years Zimmermann has captained a Premier League side, came 2nd in our POTS vote, and picked up a Championship winners medal! 

Edited September 8, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten