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Ok, that was our last realistic chance today and everyone knows it, but I won't be too harsh on the players or the manager or anyone else at the club.  For me the lockdown did for us. Prior to that we had the win against Leicester, the brilliant Spurs cup game and overall we were still in there with a chance, good performances, occasional wins and points.  

After the locdown, the fans not being at CR has been huge - the twelfth man has been missing.  That and having to play three games a week - also the substitution rule changes which change the dynamic of matches beyond what is reasonable.  All in all we have been up against it this season, with Zimmerman's injury - how we have missed him this season - and Hanley and Klose's injuries - VAR - Pukki losing his scoring form - Drmic not offering much, with Idah not seen as ready to start matches yet.

Team selection has been a problem for Farke, Duda not really the force we all expected, although he is a physical player which is what  was needed. Why he won't give Vrancic more time is a mystery to me, but DF has earned the right to be allowed to make his choices as he sees fit - we owe him that after last season. 

So it looks like we will finish rock bottom, although we could still catch Bnmth, but my overiding feeling is that any chance we had has been well and truly kyboshed by this behind the doors stuff.  Maybe it had to be like this, but it has been terrible for our players and our fans - and I feel particularly for the young players who show so much promise.

I've read a lot of rubbish since the match finished, about Farke losing the players blah blah....but really he deserves a bit of compassion - he has done his best under almost impossible conditions - lack of resources, injuries to key players, the lockdown which has clearly knocked us back - VAR and that despicable non-goal against Spurs.  

We are down, but we are not out - five games to play to restore some pride and build for next season. 

 

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Very reasonable post LDC. There will be many that want to throw their toys out of their pram, but it is what it is. 

As for EPL clubs coming to cherrypick our talent, IMO only Aarons and Cantwell have shown they are EPL class and even then the main reason that are valuable as transfer assets is they are also still young and both English.

 

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Fair enough Lakey. I think many were expecting a chest-beating speech about how the target of winning 5 is still on 😅

We'll be back. At this point we have no idea how next season will pan out, so I'm choosing to believe that Farke and particularly Webber, who is a savvy individual, will have taken an awful lot of learning from the pains of this season.

I think we'll probably see a slight reduction in the passing verve we've seen in the past in favour of an increase of athleticism and it's always a treat when some random name turns up during pre-season from the u23s like Lewis and Aarons beforehand and excels. The young defenders are all out of here IMO and Buendia will take a move back to a reputable club in Spain. Not sure on Cantwell- I know there's a poster on here who reckons Liverpool is a done deal, and I've no evidence to refute that, but I think his ceiling might be higher than the other young stars but is less far along in his development.

Just a note on Vrancic- love the player but he just doesn't have the speed or power for a competitive midfield at this level, he looks like he's running in slow motion. I think he has a home in attacking midfield personally, but, its a bit academic now.

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I do like Cantwell but he's not anywhere near the level of the top half of PL. The main thing I see as a problem with him is his first touch often let's him down. He doesn't have the clinical ball control that's needed at the top level. 

Farke has had the opportunity to provide a miracle but, unfortunately, he is a human after all. I'm not sure what anyone was expecting after all. 

Pride indeed LDC, that's all we have left to win. 

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Anybody else interested at all what happened during the break? No?

I get the sense they basically played Playstation getting fat believing the season was over, got caught in the headlights being way behind in conditioning when they decided to restart the season, tripped over while hurrying to catch up, got a couple injuries and the absolute abysmal state of psychological conditioning that has plagued the team throughout the season provided nothing to bounce back from.

Is anybody talking about perhaps spending like 1/10 of a player's worth to hire a team of sports psychologists and analysts to figure out why the hell the team is less than the sum of its parts? This isn't exactly novel these days. We have physiotherapists. We should have shrinks as well. Is there a "head coach" in the club?

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58 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

I do like Cantwell but he's not anywhere near the level of the top half of PL. The main thing I see as a problem with him is his first touch often let's him down. He doesn't have the clinical ball control that's needed at the top level. 

Farke has had the opportunity to provide a miracle but, unfortunately, he is a human after all. I'm not sure what anyone was expecting after all. 

Pride indeed LDC, that's all we have left to win. 

Thus to be another season in rebuilding the club

That it was done in the PL is a testament to how well the club has done so far

We will simply revert back to the Championship and continue.

Those upset, wailing and rending their clothes are those who still don't grasp what is happening at the club

The same snivellin' whinge  who were wanting Farke out two summers ago

Rome wasn't built in a day and I can see the improvement if the whiners chose not to

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8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Ok, that was our last realistic chance today and everyone knows it... 

So it looks like we will finish rock bottom... 

Defeatist! 😡

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5 hours ago, Bill said:

Thus to be another season in rebuilding the club

That it was done in the PL is a testament to how well the club has done so far

We will simply revert back to the Championship and continue.

Those upset, wailing and rending their clothes are those who still don't grasp what is happening at the club

The same snivellin' whinge  who were wanting Farke out two summers ago

Rome wasn't built in a day and I can see the improvement if the whiners chose not to

What is happening to the club? 

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The lockdown excuse is a complete red herring.  Our form had been dreadful for months,  every other club has to contend with multiple matches each week, every other club has to play without crowds, and every other club has to cope with injuries.  The facts are simple:  we have a team which has consistently performed to considerably less than the sum of its parts; a manager who sadly seems to have run out of ideas;  a pedestrian style of play that is totally predictable; absolutely no cutting edge in the final third; a defense that leaks like a sieve; and a lack of ambition at board level where additional external investment seems unwelcome.  

Some will say that we should be grateful we still have a football club at all.  Television pundits and commentators patronisingly say how well-run we are, how we won’t panic just because of a little thing like relegation and that the self-sustaining Norwich way is one that other clubs should seek to emulate.   But we are where we deserve to be: anchored at the bottom of the league and firmly on track for our lowest ever points total.

However, in the eyes of some we are only little old Norwich and perhaps we shouldn’t have ideas above our station.  But others remember us having higher standards and expectations than this.  I’m sure many who saw us finishing 5th, 4th and 3rd in the First Div/Prem, playing at Wembley in League Cup finals, and qualifying for Europe (4 times if it wasn’t for Liverpool getting us banned) feel the opportunities offered by multiple promotions to the Prem have been squandered and that the apparent  complacency and lack of ambition at Board level has been holding us back.  

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How can the OP say lockdown did us? We're judged on the whole season. Prior to lockdown we'd played 29 games and won 5. That simply isn't good enough, so to say lockdown did us is mind boggling. We have been extremely poor since the return, Man U game aside but that alone hasn't relegated us

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Posted (edited)

Norwich like an NDA so we probably won’t get to hear about what really went on during lockdown . No one ever reveals all because all ex managers and ex CEO’s sign them. 
 

To have played as we have , and consistently been outclassed and outthought , I really do believe that something is awry. The Southampton game , which we haven’t recovered from made no sense . The subsequent use of our  best players , and their reaction , suggests an issue aside from simply losing a match. 
 

Why pick these teams ? Why did the players look so poor and at times unfit ? Why make the statements about turning down other clubs? 
 

maybe Webber won’t sign an NDA? I look forward  to his memoirs. 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

After the locdown, the fans not being at CR has been huge - the twelfth man has been missing.  That and having to play three games a week - also the substitution rule changes which change the dynamic of matches beyond what is reasonable.  All in all we have been up against it this season, with Zimmerman's injury - how we have missed him this season - and Hanley and Klose's injuries - VAR - Pukki losing his scoring form - Drmic not offering much, with Idah not seen as ready to start matches yet.

So, after the penny finally drops and the nailed on certainty that we were always going to get relegated is realized, now come the excuses.

That's fine, but they are the wrong excuses.

We didn't need to spend a fortune but we made virtually no attempt to cement our PL status by investing in the squad, either at the start of the season or in January.

We failed to rectify the defensive frailities that we evident last season by not strengthening our defence.

We gambled our future away by deciding that we would hope for the best and just wing it.

Although Farke was good last season, this season he has been lacking in his decision making.

Not one player has played to the level that we all know that they are capable of.

There has been a lack of skill, fitness, energy and fight.

Last seasons strengths (passing, taking chances, team spirit, desire, invention) have been this seasons weaknesses.

 

Edited by Making Plans

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11 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

How can the OP say lockdown did us? We're judged on the whole season. Prior to lockdown we'd played 29 games and won 5. That simply isn't good enough, so to say lockdown did us is mind boggling. We have been extremely poor since the return, Man U game aside but that alone hasn't relegated us

I don't think we would have lost four league games in a row without scoring if the season had continued as normal without a break. I strongly believe that we would have picked up at least one win in that run, giving us hope for the run in.  That is why I say the lockdown did us.

 

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2 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

So, after the penny finally drops and the nailed on certainty that we were always going to get relegated is realized, now come the excuses.

That's fine, but they are the wrong excuses.

We didn't need to spend a fortune but we made virtually no attempt to cement our PL status by investing in the squad, either at the start of the season or in January.

We failed to rectify the defensive frailities that we evident last season by not strengthening our defence.

We gambled our future away by deciding that we would hope for the best and just wing it.

Although Farke was good last season, this season he has been lacking in his decision making.

Not one player has played to the level that we all know that they are capable of.

There has been a lack of skill, fitness, energy and fight.

Last seasons strengths (passing, taking chances, team spirit, desire, invention) have been this seasons weaknesses.

 

Nearly all of that is way off the mark. 

We did invest in a few players - Amadou was a disppointment, Duda's loan too, Rupp is ok, Drmic a gamble that looks to have misfired.  

We did strengthen the defence with Byram and the defence would have been ok if the four good cb's we have had been fit so we could keep a settled back four.

We did not "wing it" - there is a development plan, in case you haven't been paying attention to what the club is trying to do. 

Farke has been doing the best he can with what he has got - and sometimes we have played some great football - just not quite good enough overall, which is no disgrace.

Not one player has played to their level?????   Krul, Cantwell, Pukki and Emi in the first half of the season, Hanley was excellent when he came into the team, Byram looked great, Idah has looked the part, especially in the cup, the youngsters Aarons and Lewis have been good in spells - let's not forget these youngsters are on a huge learning curve.

As for "lack of skill, fitness, energy and fight" - that is just sound bite style nonsense.

We have been up against it this season from the off, we have shown lots of spirit during the season, right up to the lockdown - and even if it has been difficult watch the last few games, the spirit has still been there, or did you not watch the Man Utd match?  The league is beyond us, but not because of lack of spirit and fitness - it has worn us down as the pressure has mounted and the lockdown/restart cemented that.  We needed everything in our favour to do well (as it was last season) but almost from the start we have had setback after setback.  The Zimmermann injury was key imo - and it still rankles that the ref didn't even give a free kick let alone book the player that did for him.

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7 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Fair enough Lakey. I think many were expecting a chest-beating speech about how the target of winning 5 is still on 😅

We'll be back. At this point we have no idea how next season will pan out, so I'm choosing to believe that Farke and particularly Webber, who is a savvy individual, will have taken an awful lot of learning from the pains of this season.

I think we'll probably see a slight reduction in the passing verve we've seen in the past in favour of an increase of athleticism and it's always a treat when some random name turns up during pre-season from the u23s like Lewis and Aarons beforehand and excels. The young defenders are all out of here IMO and Buendia will take a move back to a reputable club in Spain. Not sure on Cantwell- I know there's a poster on here who reckons Liverpool is a done deal, and I've no evidence to refute that, but I think his ceiling might be higher than the other young stars but is less far along in his development.

Just a note on Vrancic- love the player but he just doesn't have the speed or power for a competitive midfield at this level, he looks like he's running in slow motion. I think he has a home in attacking midfield personally, but, its a bit academic now.

 

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We were going down before lockdown. We'd had a couple of good cup results but still hadn't shown any ability to win two or three in the bounce in the league, which would have been needed.

However, without lockdown, I don't think we'd have gone down without a fight like we have now. I did seem to totally kill our spirits.

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On Vrancic I really have to  agree. He has , as you say, neither the power or pace to play the style of football we want to see. Maybe that is why he and Leitner have hardly been seen this season. Buendias second half performance yesterday is what we have been wanting from midfield. Comfortable on ball and driving at the opposition. Vrancic cant do that imo. 

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38 minutes ago, canarycop said:

On Vrancic I really have to  agree. He has , as you say, neither the power or pace to play the style of football we want to see. Maybe that is why he and Leitner have hardly been seen this season. Buendias second half performance yesterday is what we have been wanting from midfield. Comfortable on ball and driving at the opposition. Vrancic cant do that imo. 

Only valid if the player (Mclean) you continually pick instead has a positive impact on results. 

And actually Farkes style requires a deep lying playmaker who can play through the opposition press. The only players capable of doing this are Vrancic and Leitner. Everytime Mclean / Tettey / Trybull are pressed, they panic, rush, and usually either play backwards or lose the ball in dangerous areas. 

Vrancic and Leitner have the touch, guile, and vision to draw a player on and knock it passed them to a teammate, such as Buendia who will then find himself in space between the oppositions defence and midfield. Exactly where he wants to be. This happened so often last season, and usually resulted in Buendia using that time and space effectively to thread Pukki through on goal. 

It's been more clear than ever since the restart that as soon as we're pressed we fall apart. Every game has near enough followed the same pattern. The opposition roll through the motions and sit back for the opening 20-25 minutes, letting us have the ball and look half decent but ultimately toothless. Then as the half progresses and we tire a little, the opposition start to press and cause anxiety when our players have the ball, which leads into halftime. Following the break a concerted 20 minute spell of high press follows and we crumble. 

It's painfully predictable. I honestly believe using a proper deep lying playmaker would've helped. Tettey and Mclean are just so easy to play against. 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I don't think we would have lost four league games in a row without scoring if the season had continued as normal without a break. I strongly believe that we would have picked up at least one win in that run, giving us hope for the run in.  That is why I say the lockdown did us.

 

While I do agree we wouldn't have lost 4 on the spin, I don't think one win would have put us back in contention- lockdown has also had a huge negative affect on our rivals and I don't imagine under normal circumstances we'd have seen Villa, Bournemouth and Watford all go 4 games without a win too.

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4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I don't think we would have lost four league games in a row without scoring if the season had continued as normal without a break. I strongly believe that we would have picked up at least one win in that run, giving us hope for the run in.  That is why I say the lockdown did us.

 

Really? On what do you base your theory? Excluding the lockdown, we had scored 1 league goal in the last 5 and that was by Jamal Lewis with a worldy against Leicester. So what on earth makes you think that lockdown has done us? We've merely picked up where we left off

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We were in deep trouble well before lockdown. To blame lockdown is sticking your head in the sand and refusing to look at what is in front of you. Lack of goals (too reliant on one person) and a team that even in promotion failed to keep clean sheets. Unfortunately none of Webber's bargain basement buys worked, coupled by injuries all in area... You would have hoped that a break might have helped solve some of those issues but unfortunately not...

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I would agree that the lockdown has contributed to our downfall but perhaps not as much as people seem to think.

As someone on here said 5 wins from 29 games is relegation form and I don't buy this idea that a settled defence would have saved the day. We shipped goals for fun last season so why did the club think those same defenders would be good enough at a much higher level. ? Getting an injury-prone Byram was never gouing to be the answer.

One thing is likely and that's a big turn round in playing staff for next season

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We have been up against it this season from the off, we have shown lots of spirit during the season, right up to the lockdown - and even if it has been difficult watch the last few games, the spirit has still been there, or did you not watch the Man Utd match?

In the game that meant the least over the last 5 we’ve played. I think that sums it up for me.

Edited by Mr Angry
Can’t count!

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8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I don't think we would have lost four league games in a row without scoring if the season had continued as normal without a break. I strongly believe that we would have picked up at least one win in that run, giving us hope for the run in.  That is why I say the lockdown did us.

 

You've strongly believed a lot of things this season, they've all been wrong too.

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6 hours ago, king canary said:

While I do agree we wouldn't have lost 4 on the spin, I don't think one win would have put us back in contention- lockdown has also had a huge negative affect on our rivals and I don't imagine under normal circumstances we'd have seen Villa, Bournemouth and Watford all go 4 games without a win too.

Doesn't fit his narrative though.

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25 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Doesn't fit his narrative though.

Yes it does, Mr Cynical. The lockdown has affected all the bottom teams. We were already adrift of them, but there was still something to play for. Actually there still is. 

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22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes it does, Mr Cynical. The lockdown has affected all the bottom teams. We were already adrift of them, but there was still something to play for. Actually there still is. 

 

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3 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

In the game that meant the least over the last 5 we’ve played. I think that sums it up for me.

Players had alread accepted relegation before we played Man U and saw the FA Cup quarter final as a free hit and a chance of achieving something, even if was only a Wembley appearance in the semi's.

When that went down the pan they reverted to not bothering.

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Thought Lakey was about to get the guitar and sing us a song from the title.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Yes it does, Mr Cynical. The lockdown has affected all the bottom teams. We were already adrift of them, but there was still something to play for. Actually there still is. 

Pity the team and the manager disagree with you.

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