Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dylanisabaddog

Relegated on points per game

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, pete said:

Whatever PL decide it is highly unlikely that the Championship will complete.  PL clubs already spending in anticipation of Project Restart looking at ppe equipment i.e. high spec masks.  I don't believe there is the money in Championship clubs to meet costs such as these or provision of private medical facilities.  No discussions about tournament at one venue.. Leeds, WBA and Fulham can meet added expense smaller teams such as Barnsley, Luton and Charlton will struggle without gate receipts.  You cannot have the championship without all 24, bottom three might just scupper plans to complete before Jan 30 a significant date.

And government will not sanction completing all outstanding EFL matches even if all agree to finish the season.

If the various leagues can't complete - and anyone looking at the current status of public sentiment and lock down knows they can't complete - unless under special "bread and circus" circumstances the PL plays its remaining games behind closed doors - then this season must be declared "void" with no promotion or relegation and the legal and financial ramifications of that will be worked out. 

Given that The Championship will not conclude, even if the Premier League do play on to entertain a locked down Britain (and secure the majority of it's TV revenues) you should not relegate the bottom three PL clubs this year but instead give the EFL the £126 million parachute payment money. You could spread that money across Championship, L1 and L2 teams at £3m, £1.5m, £750K each and do a lot of good. If you increase PL size it interferes with the European commitments of top clubs and puts additional pressure on killing off the League and the FA Cups.

Now, if you say "but there may not be parachute payments available next year", then it's even more reason for NCFC need to sue if necessary to stay in the PL. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

But if the current Premier League clubs are against it then it's a non-starter.

Wacky, I haven’t seen it reported that they are against that idea. Only that they keep saying publicly they want to complete the season by playing football, which is to be expected. But not that they are specifically for or against the various mooted solutions if the season cannot be completed, or if the PL completes but the Championship does not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Wacky, I haven’t seen it reported that they are against that idea. Only that they keep saying publicly they want to complete the season by playing football, which is to be expected. But not that they are specifically for or against the various mooted solutions if the season cannot be completed, or if the PL completes but the Championship does not.

Me neither, to be honest. However, no other country has done it thus far and I'd be shocked if any top flights will have more than 20 teams next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, HertsCanary93 said:

I have to agree with those saying 'if there is any form of relegation - we will be relegated' . Whether the season is completed or not. 

I'm betting the season gets finished (even if it is an absolute shambles, and a dangerous one too). 

However, even if we do get relegated without kicking another ball - I personally won't feel too hard done by. The table doesn't lie - we've been the worst performing team in the league up until this point. 

🤦🏻‍♂️
 

You do realise up until this point not all teams have played the exact same fixtures thus far? Though you’re not the only one to fail to notice this to be fair.

Check our run in compared to Villa’s Bournemouth’s and West Ham’s. And then ask yourselves whether the 6 point advantage or whatever it is they have so far is really that admirable - and ’uncatchable’.

If everyone had played exactly the same fixtures and we were 6 points adrift then I could understand where some of you are coming from. But...

If one team has played 10 games against Barcelona, ManCity, Liverpool, Juventus etc etc, and another team that is 6 points ahead has played 10 games against Bournemouth, Sheff Weds, Bolton, Ip****e... only a fool would say the latter team were better.

A bit extreme, granted. But my point is clear. No team is the ’worst’ until the 38 games have all been equally played. So yes, there is a completely reasonable argument against us getting relegated as it stands. The fixture calendar has been slightly kinder to some teams so far, so considering just a 6 point gap or wot not, there is no proof yet that we are the Prem’s ‘worst’ team. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting line also about the EFL not wanting to “lose” WBA and Leeds. I assume that’s in the absence of a couple of bigger clubs coming down to replace them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Mail says 10 clubs may reject restart.

Its just the big 6 desperate for the money with a spurious argument that voiding this seaso puts next season in danger, what rubbish, easy to see its the money they are concerned about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Presumably any voting process will be anonymous.  struggling to see how any majority will vote for this ridiculous plan, no way any of the bottom 6 vote for it so just need one other club to disagree 

Edited by JF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cheering up the nation meme is being run by the big six as a cover for their own financial benefit. As Martn Samuel says " this is not about cheering the nation, but cashing in on lucrative contracts that require a finite title victory  or C L place, to pay out." We can all see through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Check our run in compared to Villa’s Bournemouth’s and West Ham’s. And then ask yourselves whether the 6 point advantage or whatever it is they have so far is really that admirable - and ’uncatchable’.

In the return fixtures against the 9 teams weve got left to play we took...7 points. 

I dont think we should accept it meekly but I kind of agree with @HertsCanary93 that it would be tough to feel too hard done by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This stinks and the sooner it’s extinguished the better. Sick to think of pro football being played during this pandemic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, king canary said:

In the return fixtures against the 9 teams weve got left to play we took...7 points. 

I dont think we should accept it meekly but I kind of agree with @HertsCanary93 that it would be tough to feel too hard done by.

Difference between home and away is huge though in this league.

i can’t claim we don’t deserve to be bottom and that it’s not likely we will go down if the season is completed but I don’t think ANY team should be relegated if not able to complete their full 38 fixtures home and away nor do I accept (as many just seem to) that a Leeds or WBA should take our place when they have not earnt it over a full season. 

this neutral grounds solution is not fair either.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree that for relegation to happen all 38 games have to be played. Anything else would be a travesty.  And allowing teams up from the EFL who have not completed their season would be a travesty too.  This is no solution as it carries no natural justice to it.  The only solutions are to somehow play the games at a time when football can return or void the season and start again. 

I'm amazed that relegating clubs when a season hasn't been completed is even on the table, but then as has been said, it is about the money.   Hopefully natural justice will prevail and somehow the season can be completed even if it takes a year to do it, or just draw a line under the season and start it again.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

After reading that piece in the Mirror I am beginning to think for the first time that this Bonkers scheme might go ahead. 
 

There is a clear opportunity to get a unanimous agreement to complete the season so long as relegation is ruled out - on the grounds of having to use neutral grounds. Without that I can’t see enough members (14) agreeing to it. The top six won’t care about relegation so long as they get to complete the season and get European places sorted out.

It shouldn’t happen but there seems to be such a determination to get it finished that even players testing positive won’t get in the way!

Edited by Hairy Canary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Difference between home and away is huge though in this league.

i can’t claim we don’t deserve to be bottom and that it’s not likely we will go down if the season is completed but I don’t think ANY team should be relegated if not able to complete their full 38 fixtures home and away nor do I accept (as many just seem to) that a Leeds or WBA should take our place when they have not earnt it over a full season. 

this neutral grounds solution is not fair either.

 

I think the key cliche for the authorities here is 'dont let perfect be the enemy of good.'

There is no perfect solution that is fair to all. 

Fundamentally I believe if you run a simulation of the rest of this season 100 times we maybe stay up once or twice. So if the solution ends up keeping us up for another season I'll consider it fortunate.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, king canary said:

In the return fixtures against the 9 teams weve got left to play we took...7 points. 

I dont think we should accept it meekly but I kind of agree with @HertsCanary93 that it would be tough to feel too hard done by.

I’d feel much more hard done by if we were in the Championship to be honest. We look v likely to get relegated, it’s possible we wouldn’t but the odds are slim.

But all the fawning over Leeds and WBA when we all know it’s highly likely one or both could choke in the remaining fixtures and miss out, not to mention however the playoff situation would get resolved will always be unsatisfactory if it’s either ignored or the rest of the games aren’t played fairly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the key cliche for the authorities here is 'dont let perfect be the enemy of good.'

There is no perfect solution that is fair to all. 

Fundamentally I believe if you run a simulation of the rest of this season 100 times we maybe stay up once or twice. So if the solution ends up keeping us up for another season I'll consider it fortunate.

Yes you could say it’s good fortune but the only solutions that are fair to all are playing out the season at both levels or voiding the season. Although it may have unfortunate consequences for a few clubs voiding is “fair” in the sense there is no contrived outcome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

🤦🏻‍♂️
 

You do realise up until this point not all teams have played the exact same fixtures thus far? Though you’re not the only one to fail to notice this to be fair.

Check our run in compared to Villa’s Bournemouth’s and West Ham’s. And then ask yourselves whether the 6 point advantage or whatever it is they have so far is really that admirable - and ’uncatchable’.

If everyone had played exactly the same fixtures and we were 6 points adrift then I could understand where some of you are coming from. But...

If one team has played 10 games against Barcelona, ManCity, Liverpool, Juventus etc etc, and another team that is 6 points ahead has played 10 games against Bournemouth, Sheff Weds, Bolton, Ip****e... only a fool would say the latter team were better.

A bit extreme, granted. But my point is clear. No team is the ’worst’ until the 38 games have all been equally played. So yes, there is a completely reasonable argument against us getting relegated as it stands. The fixture calendar has been slightly kinder to some teams so far, so considering just a 6 point gap or wot not, there is no proof yet that we are the Prem’s ‘worst’ team. 

We've got nine games to go and three of those are away games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City, which would probably give a return of nil points. The other six are all either winnable home games or away against teams around us, but realistically we'd probably need five wins, or at the very least four wins and a draw to survive. Given our record against the other struggling teams, I just can't see it. We could run the season 100 times and we'd go down in 95.

 

1 hour ago, king canary said:

In the return fixtures against the 9 teams weve got left to play we took...7 points. 

I dont think we should accept it meekly but I kind of agree with @HertsCanary93 that it would be tough to feel too hard done by.

Spot on. I think we should argue until the cows come home if we get sent down, but any reprieve we get would be huge stroke of fortune because I don't think we would've survived on the pitch.

The smaller teams striking a deal with the big boys that we'll help them finish the season in dangerous artificial circumstances to help them get their money if they cancel relegation isn't beyond the realms of possibility, even though it clearly isn't the right thing to do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We've got nine games to go and three of those are away games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City, which would probably give a return of nil points. The other six are all either winnable home games or away against teams around us, but realistically we'd probably need five wins, or at the very least four wins and a draw to survive. Given our record against the other struggling teams, I just can't see it. We could run the season 100 times and we'd go down in 95.

 

Spot on. I think we should argue until the cows come home if we get sent down, but any reprieve we get would be huge stroke of fortune because I don't think we would've survived on the pitch.

The smaller teams striking a deal with the big boys that we'll help them finish the season in dangerous artificial circumstances to help them get their money if they cancel relegation isn't beyond the realms of possibility, even though it clearly isn't the right thing to do.

Discussions are taking place in the Bundesliga on cancelling relegation if their  games go ahead and they haven’t even mentioned this neutral venue nonsense 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/27/bundesliga-clubs-debate-whether-relegation-should-scrapped-even/amp/

Edited by JF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Glad to see the article mentioned the idea of cancelling relegated teams parachute payments in favor of raising solidarity payments (which implies no relegated teams of course) You could give each Championship side 3 million, each League 1 side 1.5 million and each League 2 side 750 thousand next year if you did that.

If they promote Leeds and WBA because they happen to be six points clear, what do they do about the playoff hopeful teams? And if those two come up the parachute payment money available goes down by 2/3 unless they expand the PL. And if they do that what about the Championship - do they promote from an equally unfinished L1? If any league loses teams that are not replaced that’s more home game revenue lost for those who remain in that league. 

So best to retain the status quo. We haven’t even got to discuss the impact of administration / folding up by EFL teams, so these payments could help avoid an even bigger revenue issue down the road. 
 

 

Edited by Surfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

May not seem fair but if a game is abandoned a with a quarter of it still to go it has to be replayed even if one team is 10 nil up. I cannot see the logic in any difference with this season for everyone, it could not be completed there are so many scenarios of what could or could not happen so just put a line through it and start again when safe to do so

Edited by Yorkshire Canary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cant believe there are people who would meekly lay down and accept us being shown the door out of the premier league with a quarter of a seasons worth of fuxtures left...  to be replaced by a club/s who havent done enough to warrant being promoted?

...lets hope the people representing our club at these premier league conferences or if it comes to it, court have a stronger constitution than some on here??!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Cant believe there are people who would meekly lay down and accept us being shown the door out of the premier league with a quarter of a seasons worth of fuxtures left...  to be replaced by a club/s who havent done enough to warrant being promoted?

...lets hope the people representing our club at these premier league conferences or if it comes to it, court have a stronger constitution than some on here??!?

I dont think anyone has advocated laying down?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted in another thread as well, cracks are appearing 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JF said:

Posted in another thread as well, cracks are appearing 

 

Very interesting language used there by Barber. The word 'material' is somewhat legalese I would say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think only 14 teams in the prem have to vote for something for it to pass, so highly possible we could be relegated without having to complete season.

Presumably the bottom 3 would vote against it. But would need 4 from elsewhere.

You have to assume the top 4 would vote for it.

So would need 5th 6th 7th and 8th to vote against if  they are missing out on potential euro football.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...