Corona Virus main thread

[Herman 9,779]

8 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Schooling.

Is there anything left that this excuse for a government can still get wrong. Inept and incompetent is just too kind a description for them.

As the Welsh First Minister said, they plan and then make an announcement when everything is in place. 

7 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

It's not the call it's telling everybody that primary schools will return this July and then failing to plan or deliver. Hopeless.

That's the point. A big announcement is made. Get the days headlines and then it all falls apart. This has happened once too often. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Herman

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

43 minutes ago, Herman said:

As the Welsh First Minister said, they plan and then make an announcement when everything is in place. 

That's the point. A big announcement is made. Get the days headlines and then it all falls apart. This has happened once too often. 

Agree Hermano, the similarities betwen the Government's announcement style and Bilious' postings are uncanny. Big headline, no substance.

[BigFish 1,988]

Fairly typical one this. Conservates expensively reorganise a service for ideological reasons. They then underfund it so it lacks resilience and is already bursting at the seams. Crisis hits. Johnson/Cummings refuse to be honest with the public about what is achievable. They then make a big announcement of something that is unachievable but popular. Finally they fail to meet their committments & hope everyone forgets about it.

[sonyc 5,526]

We have got a glimpse into the future pressure on the NHS in the aftermath of the pandemic, if not, certainly the latter stages...with NHS leaders this morning concerned about waiting lists.

Pre pandemic waiting numbers for procedures were just over 4m (the highest ever being 4.5m). Projections for a range of scenarios put 2021 waiting list numbers at well over 10m. Plus, many staff are suffering from trauma and exhaustion.

Has the government saved the NHS? I want to emphasise first  the technical points here rather than a political one.....after all any government in the world will be faced with similar pressures.

My question is really therefore whether the pandemic has led to any learning about the various pinch points in the health system, whether capacity will or can be increased (Johnson wanted to build 6 new hospitals in his manifesto and recruit more nurses).

We have heard already about the restrictions on cancer care during the pandemic. The country will face a significant backlog of urgent cases. If social distancing is still needed as well as capacity to deal with local outbreaks ahead, we must assume capacity is stretched.

Secondly, on a much more obvious politically charged note, will the NHS have sufficient PPE ahead, will the clinical and care interface be much improved? How will we recruit enough nurses when we are losing so many overseas staff because of Brexit? What will happen if there is actually no deal and this is compounded by a deep recession at exactly the same time? Will contracts for health services continue to be lost to the private sector/the US? (by stealth, privatisation through the back door).

What strategy should this government have to tackle the above? A massive national preventative health strategy must form one element.

These are a few thoughts this morning, mostly a look ahead. This is welcome in a way because it means the virus is receding and it affords a deeper and more considered look forward. I have not heard any cabinet minister being asked about this. A lot of looking forward has been about the economy....and there are plenty of column inches about this. Yet to treat health and the economy as separate as the New Zealand spokesman said on the radio this morning is a false dichotomy. You cannot have an economy without good health. And on this last point, surely now the government must see this clearly and prioritise accordingly.

Edited June 10, 2020 by sonyc

[Bill 1,788]

35 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Agree Hermano, the similarities betwen the Government's announcement style and Bilious' postings are uncanny. Big headline, no substance.

Eau de Crank

parfum du Rennes

a distinkt, yet pungent aroma that lingers in the air

a fragrance that will follow you through the day

 

 

 

nb not suitable for use on pigs

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So you’d suggest physical roadblocks, checking every car that comes through (essential worker? Non-essential worker? Etc.)? That’s the only way you’d stop that sort of thing I reckon.

On the basis Cornwall is heavily dependent on tourism, I can’t see that building roadblocks to keep people out (even as a temporary measure) is going to be good for the county in the long run. 

Yes I would Aggy. Not so many weeks ago, so many people were terrified. Now I see a change where social distancing is being ignored when it suits. Why the change in attitude? Because the number of deaths, and new cases is decreasing. 

In Cornwall the number has always been relatively low. So an ideal place, as admitted by Ramsey, to bring yourself to avoid the virus. Just like Cummings decided.

So that could well turn a green area into a red one.

If there had been some thought, closing our natural borders with the rest of Britain (there are only a few ways to get into Cornwall) could have retained that low virus oasis.

But the picture below shows what is happening. This is not an isolated case. People I have spoken to have seen so many.

And Tourism is very important to Cornwall. But I have a motorhome and could well have boosted the local economy. In fact, we spend more time using it in Cornwall than anywhere else. It is important to remove the image of "quaint old Cornwall". There are more up country people living here than indigenous Cornish.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Eau de Crank

parfum du Rennes

a distinkt, yet pungent aroma that lingers in the air

a fragrance that will follow you through the day

 

 

 

nb not suitable for use on pigs

 

 

I stay out of the silly spats but this deseves a credit ! 

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

Four weeks ago Boris Johnson announced the new alert system.

We were on level 4, as far as I can remember that hasn't changed.

The announcement about shops opening on Monday sounds like the Government think we're on level 2.

Have I missed something or are they making it up as they go along? Has the alert system been retired?

 

 

[Badger 2,406]

11 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In Italy, state schools have moved lessons online and the language school I work at has moved it's entire timetable online, so I've been teaching online now for nearly three months. I'd agree that it isn't quite as good as face-to-face teaching, but it isn't bad and I'm surprised the UK hasn't at least tried it in some capacity because, as you say, education is very important and the UK have just scrapped it.

It is being tried - it's just not reported by the media who prefer the narrative of "idle teachers." My wife is a teacher and has been giving lessons on Zoom since Easter. My daughter is in year 10 and her Norfolk state school has developed a very comprehensive online curriculum based on her normal timetable. She gets set lessons everyday using google classrooms, links to explanatory videos etc and questions that she has to complete on google forms and return and which are marked. They also have regular sessions in google hangouts etc etc.

The biggest problem has been wifi capacity, causing immensely frustrating crashes/ inability to login, despite us having the most expensive Virgin package. 

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Four weeks ago Boris Johnson announced the new alert system.

We were on level 4, as far as I can remember that hasn't changed.

The announcement about shops opening on Monday sounds like the Government think we're on level 2.

Have I missed something or are they making it up as they go along? Has the alert system been retired?

 

 

I think as far as government policy is concerned and depth of thougt it's 'Thunderbirds are go'.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Four weeks ago Boris Johnson announced the new alert system.

We were on level 4, as far as I can remember that hasn't changed.

The announcement about shops opening on Monday sounds like the Government think we're on level 2.

Have I missed something or are they making it up as they go along? Has the alert system been retired?

Boris got some crayons from somewhere obviously and decided to make some new signs. But he didn't know what they meant.

And yes you are right. Mrs KG have been discussing how we are at level 2 from Monday but still at level 4 on each of Boris's pretty graphs.

Or did Witty do them after he had run out of jigsaws during his own isolation?

[Crafty Canary 496]

11 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

It's not the call it's telling everybody that primary schools will return this July and then failing to plan or deliver. Hopeless.

Many schools did return last week however whether schools open or not is the decision of the headteachers and the local authority not the government. Many labour controlled councils have refused point blank and the hard left controlled teaching unions are opposed for political reasons. Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. In the face of this the government has accepted that its concern about lost education especially for those who least can afford to miss out on it and the mental well being of children has been subverted. Well the left can rejoice in this but then when have they ever given a f***k about the poor and dispossessed?

[......and Smith must score. 1,345]

3 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Well the left can rejoice in this but then when have they ever given a f***k about the poor and dispossessed?

Left or right.....a typo surely ?

Only Thatcher can have been less concerned about the unmonied than that clown currently installed in No.10.

[......and Smith must score. 1,345]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

Eau de Crank

parfum du Rennes

a distinkt, yet pungent aroma that lingers in the air

a fragrance that will follow you through the day

 

Constantly thinking about other peoples football teams ? Add this superb compliment to your OCD grooming regime

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. 

Misguided by who. And who has the right to say what a parent may approve or disapprove for their children.

[Bill 1,788]

Constantly ?

but good to see some one has come to hand cranks defence - however I can only wonder why you feel so aggrieved on his behalf

and curious that you should cut this piece off the bottom

nb not suitable for use on pigs

Edited June 10, 2020 by Bill

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

1 hour ago, Crafty Canary said:

Many schools did return last week however whether schools open or not is the decision of the headteachers and the local authority not the government. Many labour controlled councils have refused point blank and the hard left controlled teaching unions are opposed for political reasons. Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. In the face of this the government has accepted that its concern about lost education especially for those who least can afford to miss out on it and the mental well being of children has been subverted. Well the left can rejoice in this but then when have they ever given a f***k about the poor and dispossessed?

I know you're a cheerleader for this hapless government but even though there is some truth in some of your points this is predominantly a FAILURE of this government to get their ducks in a row and form a viable plan. Slow hand clap time for Williamson. I would guess everybody on here wants the kids back at school  - all of them asap.

As to a left / right issue that's absurd and just show's your partisanship. It's a competence / incompetence issue.

Take a look at the papers - even the Tories are getting more than unhappy, grumbling with Johnson's ineptness. For the rest of us it is just par for course.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Yellow Fever
typo

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Crafty Canary said:

 this the government has accepted that its concern about lost education especially for those who least can afford to miss out on it and the mental well being of children has been subverted.

Well the left can rejoice in this but then when have they ever given a f***k about the poor and dispossessed?

Yes the governments concern can be seen by the way it has constantly cut education budgets and staff levels - while allowing public schools to claim they are charities

And the left's lack of concern about the poor has been one of its notable failures 😄

 

ps you aren't Swindon by any chance, he's not too bright either

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, Crafty Canary said:

Many schools did return last week however whether schools open or not is the decision of the headteachers and the local authority not the government. Many labour controlled councils have refused point blank and the hard left controlled teaching unions are opposed for political reasons. Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. In the face of this the government has accepted that its concern about lost education especially for those who least can afford to miss out on it and the mental well being of children has been subverted. Well the left can rejoice in this but then when have they ever given a f***k about the poor and dispossessed?

Strange then that this happened only in England where the Tories control education, while in Wales under Labour there is a plan to get the kids back in school before the Summer. Williamson has had two and a half months to come up with a plan and has come up with sweet **** all. Starmer recognised that he was failing a month ago and offered to Johnson to set up a task force to get this moving. Johnson couldn't be bothered to reply and made up a fantasy call that never happened instead. This simple truth about this is it is an embarrassing failure, a litany of incompetance, lazines and lies by a government with an 80 seat majority.

[......and Smith must score. 1,345]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. 

Misguided by who. And who has the right to say what a parent may approve or disapprove for their children.

That's the problem with politicians of all flavours. They're so out of touch with Joe Public in their Westminster ' bubble '.

[BigFish 1,988]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Strange then that this happened only in England where the Tories control education, while in Wales under Labour there is a plan to get the kids back in school before the Summer. Williamson has had two and a half months to come up with a plan and has come up with sweet **** all. Starmer recognised that he was failing a month ago and offered to Johnson to set up a task force to get this moving. Johnson couldn't be bothered to reply and made up a fantasy call that never happened instead. This simple truth about this is it is an embarrassing failure, a litany of incompetance, lazines and lies by a government with an 80 seat majority.

.......oh I forgot, Scotland seem to have a plan to get the kids back in August as well.

So just England, why is that?

[......and Smith must score. 1,345]

48 minutes ago, Bill said:

Yes the governments concern can be seen by the way it has constantly cut education budgets and staff levels - while allowing public schools to claim they are charities

And the left's lack of concern about the poor has been one of its notable failures 😄

 

ps you aren't Swindon by any chance, he's not too bright either

This is EXACTLY why people don't want to engage with you.

Your post in itself is reasonable then you have to add an unnecessary insult at the end.

WTF is wrong with you ?

 

[Barbe bleu 827]

32 minutes ago, BigFish said:

.......oh I forgot, Scotland seem to have a plan to get the kids back in August as well.

So just England, why is that?

The Scottish plan is to return in full after the summer holidays.  This is the same plan as in England.

[Bill 1,788]

30 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

This is EXACTLY why people don't want to engage with you.

Your post in itself is reasonable then you have to add an unnecessary insult at the end.

WTF is wrong with you ?

apart from you. it would appear

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

33 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

This is EXACTLY why people don't want to engage with you.

Your post in itself is reasonable then you have to add an unnecessary insult at the end.

WTF is wrong with you ?

 

Hes avoiding making two  apologies  so thinks if he just keeps posting itll go away..... it won't.  Billo has an ex cop and an ex soldier on  his case, they wont let him forget. That's why  we remind  him what a low life he his, because  he thinks starting a no info thread about the binners makes it all ok.... it doesnt.....and it never will.

[Badger 2,406]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. 

Misguided by who. And who has the right to say what a parent may approve or disapprove for their children.

The state.

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

The Scottish plan is to return in full after the summer holidays.  This is the same plan as in England.

The Scottish plan is reopen schools on the 11th August, eminently sensible as gives time to prepare. This is not the same as England at all and to  claim it is is ridiculous. Currently it appears England doesn't have a plan at all, since the last one collapsed. Just a dream to open schools in September.

[Crafty Canary 496]

3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The Scottish plan is to return in full after the summer holidays.  This is the same plan as in England.

Don’t point out the truth to him BB, he’s only interested in political point scoring. Labour run Wales has NHS performance below England and Scotland irrespective of coronavirus. The Blob are doing their best to destroy the life chances of the most needy. Let’s see when their schools truly open up.

[Crafty Canary 496]

5 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Some parents are also concerned about their children understandably if misguided. 

Misguided by who. And who has the right to say what a parent may approve or disapprove for their children.

By the scientific evidence from Europe that re-opening schools has had no impact on the children’s health and therefore some parents understandable concerns on this point is misguided. 
Who has the right to say what a parent may or not approve for their children? The state and inna broader sense society. Parents have a legal obligation to ensure their children are educated. This can be by home-schooling but that has to be to an acceptable standard compared to that provided by the state. I very much doubt that has been the case during lockdown for many children.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Poor old Ricardo won't be allowed an Aero or a Bubble Bath.🛀