Corona Virus main thread

[Van wink 2,994]

55 minutes ago, Herman said:

No, they are not a good idea but because of a certain incident the government have lost authority on the matter. They pushed it back into the hands of the British public and I am pretty certain it was deliberate as a way of getting rid of some of the blame of what might come next.

You are Len and I claim my £10 ( inflation )

 

[Herman 9,767]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

You are Len and I claim my £10 ( inflation )

 

Dirty globalist.😉

[sonyc 5,519]

Great example of how an in-house tracing practice 'chased' the virus.

Positive story, showing what can be done at a very local level.

Now, if I was in the government I would be making sure this was raised as an exemplar and to see if it might be replicated. Good on the Mirror for picking up on this.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-one-british-town-managed-22147619?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

[Barbe bleu 826]

55 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Great example of how an in-house tracing practice 'chased' the virus.

Positive story, showing what can be done at a very local level.

Now, if I was in the government I would be making sure this was raised as an exemplar and to see if it might be replicated. Good on the Mirror for picking up on this.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-one-british-town-managed-22147619?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Low tech but tried and tested. 

Probably impossible in urban areas but seems to be a great story about the importance of initiative at an operational level. We discussed this very thing (though obviously without this example) in these very pages a good few weeks ago. It led to an short but interesting discussion about WW2 doctrine...

 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Great example of how an in-house tracing practice 'chased' the virus.

Positive story, showing what can be done at a very local level.

Now, if I was in the government I would be making sure this was raised as an exemplar and to see if it might be replicated. Good on the Mirror for picking up on this.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-one-british-town-managed-22147619?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Rest assured that a local track and trace system is being developed in Norfolk as we speak. To be applauded but should have been done across the country a long time ago.

[Herman 9,767]

7 hours ago, Van wink said:

Rest assured that a local track and trace system is being developed in Norfolk as we speak. To be applauded but should have been done across the country a long time ago.

It's so low tech it is just Winky looking out of his window. 

[Van wink 2,994]

16 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's so low tech it is just Winky looking out of his window. 

If only you knew 😉

Tell you what I did just see in the garden though was a sparrow hawk, all me little garden birds just disappeared.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Van wink

[Herman 9,767]

Nice👍 Veering completely OT but have you been watching Springwatch? Live nest of Ospreys and White Tailed Eagle aplenty. And plenty of live beaver action thanks to Chris P.😀

[Van wink 2,994]

Yep It seems to have become a better program due to lockdown. Have been really enjoying it. The sand lizards on the Welsh coast was a great story too. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Van wink

[Herman 9,767]

10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yep It seems to have become a better program due to lockdown. Have been really enjoying it. The sand lizards on the Welsh coast was a great story too. 

👍👍

[Crafty Canary 495]

13 hours ago, T said:

As a white Caucasian I can’t fully understand but I have most certainly experienced regularly the feeling of prejudice and you are not one of us and it does make you feel sick on the stomach. It is one the of the reasons I hold the views I do on a certain other matter. Universally it has been from the older generation and not from the younger more international younger generation so hopefully.it will reduce over time. Just yesterday had a great meeting of minds with an Argentinan on a video conference which simply wouldn’t have been possible until recent technology. Ultimately we have much more common as humans than differences as nationalities and skin colour. Some weak minded people need to divide into tribes to feel strong unfortunately. 

“Universally it is from the older generation”. Is that the one that fought Nazism? I guess all those German neo Nazis are old codgers on their mobility scooters. Look at Germany, Poland, Hungary and Bulgaria and you’ll find there are plenty of young international generation racists. Racism exists where human beings exist and age has nothing to do with it.

[sonyc 5,519]

New estimates (based on ONS data) point to care home numbers accounting for nearly 6 in 10 of all deaths?! I'm sure that's a far bigger number than the government has indicated (15% to 20% I think has been reported)?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/07/more-than-half-of-englands-coronavirus-related-deaths-will-be-people-from-care-homes?

If this emerges as the real number it hardly says much for the protective ring.

Edited June 7, 2020 by sonyc

[Crafty Canary 495]

14 hours ago, Herman said:

No, they are not a good idea but because of a certain incident the government have lost authority on the matter. They pushed it back into the hands of the British public and I am pretty certain it was deliberate as a way of getting rid of some of the blame of what might come next.

Oh lovely, another leftie conspiracy theory. What utter bollox - do you actually think before you post?

 

[Herman 9,767]

13 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Oh lovely, another leftie conspiracy theory. What utter bollox - do you actually think before you post?

 

It's a simple fact you great big bowl of cold porridge.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Were there many people marching against this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide

In late November, Human Rights Watch released satellite images which showed about 1,250 Rohingya houses in five villages burned down by security forces.^[80][76] The media and human rights groups frequently reported intense human rights violations by the Burmese military.^[74][76] During one incident in November, the Myanmar military used helicopter gunships to shoot and kill villagers.^[54][75][79] As of November 2016, Myanmar has yet to allow the media and human rights groups to enter the persecuted areas.^[54] Consequently, the exact figures of civilian casualties remain unknown. Rakhine State was termed an "information black hole".^[76]

Those who fled Myanmar to escape persecution reported that women had been gang raped, men were killed, houses were torched, and young children were thrown into burning houses.^[81][82][83] Boats carrying Rohingya refugees on the Naf River were often gunned down by the Burmese military.^[84]

On 3 February 2017, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) released a report based on interviews with more than 200 Rohingya refugees, which said that the abuses included gang-rape, mass killing, and killing children.^[85][86][87] Nearly half of the interviewees stated that family members of theirs had been killed.^[85] Half of the women interviewed stated that they had been raped or sexually assaulted: the report described the sexual violence as "massive and systematic".^[86] The army and police were alleged to have burned "homes, schools, markets, shops, and mosques" belonging to or used by the Rohingya people.^[85][88][89]

[sonyc 5,519]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Were there many people marching against this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide

In late November, Human Rights Watch released satellite images which showed about 1,250 Rohingya houses in five villages burned down by security forces.^[80][76] The media and human rights groups frequently reported intense human rights violations by the Burmese military.^[74][76] During one incident in November, the Myanmar military used helicopter gunships to shoot and kill villagers.^[54][75][79] As of November 2016, Myanmar has yet to allow the media and human rights groups to enter the persecuted areas.^[54] Consequently, the exact figures of civilian casualties remain unknown. Rakhine State was termed an "information black hole".^[76]

Those who fled Myanmar to escape persecution reported that women had been gang raped, men were killed, houses were torched, and young children were thrown into burning houses.^[81][82][83] Boats carrying Rohingya refugees on the Naf River were often gunned down by the Burmese military.^[84]

On 3 February 2017, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) released a report based on interviews with more than 200 Rohingya refugees, which said that the abuses included gang-rape, mass killing, and killing children.^[85][86][87] Nearly half of the interviewees stated that family members of theirs had been killed.^[85] Half of the women interviewed stated that they had been raped or sexually assaulted: the report described the sexual violence as "massive and systematic".^[86] The army and police were alleged to have burned "homes, schools, markets, shops, and mosques" belonging to or used by the Rohingya people.^[85][88][89]

I see the point you're making Ron (I think). I can recall being part of a local response (for a short period, maybe 2007/8) to provide a sanctuary for people fleeing from this. Today where I live believe there are many hundreds of Rohingyans settled here.

[ron obvious 1,502]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I see the point you're making Ron (I think). I can recall being part of a local response (for a short period, maybe 2007/8) to provide a sanctuary for people fleeing from this. Today where I live believe there are many hundreds of Rohingyans settled here.

My point is that what happened in America was inexcusable & the full force of the law should be brought to bear (I see some poor 75 year old has got pushed to the floor & knocked unconscious by the police, when the officers got disciplined fifty-odd others went on strike!). Nevertheless it is a fact that horrendous things occur all over the world all the time. We'd spend our entire lives marching if we reacted as presently to every single injustice, & it strikes me that the reaction is out of proportion - & far too violent.

The excellent Clive Myrie was just on Marr commenting on the situation, & the difference between US & UK policing. Sounds like American police attitudes are akin to ours 50 years ago.

 

 

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

New estimates (based on ONS data) point to care home numbers accounting for nearly 6 in 10 of all deaths?! I'm sure that's a far bigger number than the government has indicated (15% to 20% I think has been reported)?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/07/more-than-half-of-englands-coronavirus-related-deaths-will-be-people-from-care-homes?

If this emerges as the real number it hardly says much for the protective ring.

On the basis the average age of death is into the eighties, even then many have underlying health conditions, and we know that places like care homes, cruise ships, prisons etc. spread this, I’d be very surprised if it was only fifteen per cent from care homes. Sixty per cent sounds more realistic. 

No doubt government policy will be picked apart, but trying to take a positive from it, if that many deaths have been in care homes, then hopefully it ought to be easier to contain and manage and try to avoid moving forward. We can focus efforts on “pockets” like care homes and other vulnerable people/institutions, with hopefully fairly minimal risk to everyone else getting back to close to “normal”. If it was 80 or 90 per cent from the community then it would be much harder to control, manage and avoid.

[daly 501]

The majority in the protests were of the younger generation who feel they are immune to the virus as reports which obviously are correct that it is the older generation who are more at risk. Those who gathered will now go back to their parents, grandparents fellow workers and spread the virus. Unbelievable that it is allowed to happen with no end in sight for the protests 

[sonyc 5,519]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

My point is that what happened in America was inexcusable & the full force of the law should be brought to bear (I see some poor 75 year old has got pushed to the floor & knocked unconscious by the police, when the officers got disciplined fifty-odd others went on strike!). Nevertheless it is a fact that horrendous things occur all over the world all the time. We'd spend our entire lives marching if we reacted as presently to every single injustice, & it strikes me that the reaction is out of proportion - & far too violent.

The excellent Clive Myrie was just on Marr commenting on the situation, & the difference between US & UK policing. Sounds like American police attitudes are akin to ours 50 years ago.

 

 

I understood your point and I don't think we are at odds.... I was saying that if something gets to you and offends, you can often do something. Marching and protesting often makes people feel better. Yet you can do practical things like establishing a project or a programme, you can create a funding opportunity, you can donate, volunteer, give your time etc. It's like the star fish story.

Sometimes helping or supporting just one person is worth it.

Protests are symbolic aren't they. It may well be that at some point it becomes a turning point. So, sometimes, events take on a deeper meaning. They change a culture, change government policy.

At a local level though, lots can be done. Less talking and shouting, more doing.

In terms of C19 there are better times to protest. Somehow it just keeps reminding me people less care now about social distance. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by sonyc

[Van wink 2,994]

43 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

In terms of C19 there are better times to protest. Somehow it just keeps reminding me people less care now about social distance. 

Some people care less about social distancing, generally most people have been brilliant and continue to be and must take credit for bringing R is down. 

I'm sure if R does creep back up and the NHS are put under strain again some of those that disregard the rules will be pointing fingers.

[Barbe bleu 826]

2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I see some poor 75 year old has got pushed to the floor & knocked unconscious by the police, when the officers got disciplined fifty-odd others went on strike!).

I dont think strike is the right word.  They have stepped down from riot duty but are not refusing to do other things as far as I know.

I don't think their motivation has been published.  It might be that they have stepped down in solidarity for a colleague that was doing his best in a difficult situation. It might also be that they are disgusted with him.  

Probably as likely as any other reason is that they dont think it's worth the risk. They've seen that they can't win and want a nice desk job instead.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Barbe bleu 826]

6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Some people care less about social distancing, generally most people have been brilliant and continue to be and must take credit for bringing R is down. 

I'm sure if R does creep back up and the NHS are put under strain again some of those that disregard the rules will be pointing fingers.

I'm pretty optimistic.  If this was march or april 100s if not 1000s would be dying as a result of the protests and crowds elsewhere. But it's june and I think community transmission is low enough,  especially in London, that there will be few infections following this

I imagine that testing results in key areas will be examined in great detail in the next 2-3 weeks.  If transmission is not increased we are probably ok for summer opening.

[Aggy 755]

12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Some people care less about social distancing, generally most people have been brilliant and continue to be and must take credit for bringing R is down. 

I'm sure if R does creep back up and the NHS are put under strain again some of those that disregard the rules will be pointing fingers.

Have we seen figures about just how much the NHS was put under strain? The nightingale hospitals went virtually unused. No doubt part of that was because thousands were dying in care homes.

[Herman 9,767]

6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think strike is the right word.  They have stepped down from riot duty but are not refusing to do other things as far as I know.

I don't think their motivation has been published.  It might be that they have stepped down in solidarity for a colleague that was doing his best in a difficult situation. It might also be that they are disgusted with him.  

Probably as likely as any other reason is that they dont think it's worth the risk. They've seen that they can't win and want a nice desk job instead.

They gathered outside where they were being held and clapped as they were released.

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, daly said:

The majority in the protests were of the younger generation who feel they are immune to the virus as reports which obviously are correct that it is the older generation who are more at risk. Those who gathered will now go back to their parents, grandparents fellow workers and spread the virus. Unbelievable that it is allowed to happen with no end in sight for the protests 

So nobody should ever be allowed out again until we’ve got a vaccine?

[Herman 9,767]

31 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Some people care less about social distancing, generally most people have been brilliant and continue to be and must take credit for bringing R is down. 

I'm sure if R does creep back up and the NHS are put under strain again some of those that disregard the rules will be pointing fingers.

My fingers are pointing at those that announced the loosening of lockdown measures the day before a very hot weekend.

[ron obvious 1,502]

33 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think strike is the right word.  They have stepped down from riot duty but are not refusing to do other things as far as I know.

I don't think their motivation has been published.  It might be that they have stepped down in solidarity for a colleague that was doing his best in a difficult situation. It might also be that they are disgusted with him.  

Probably as likely as any other reason is that they dont think it's worth the risk. They've seen that they can't win and want a nice desk job instead.

My bad. Incorrect term - should have looked up their action first.

[Van wink 2,994]

 

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm pretty optimistic.  If this was march or april 100s if not 1000s would be dying as a result of the protests and crowds elsewhere. But it's june and I think community transmission is low enough,  especially in London, that there will be few infections following this

I imagine that testing results in key areas will be examined in great detail in the next 2-3 weeks.  If transmission is not increased we are probably ok for summer opening.

Agreed, if it comes it will probably be in the Autumn, track and trace will be well bedded in by then as with testing, so at least we will be better prepared. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I am completely at odds with everything right now. Cornwall has seen a large enough influx of visitors this last week. And the protests in our major cities is equally helping the virus spread.

Yet I know of several businesses where the staff are on the despicable zero hours contracts and the staff were told find another job. And the unemployment rate in the UK is rising.

Politically, the Government has according to reports seen the figures from the Chancellor and Business Secretary and after the initial shock, decided the economy has to take preference.

Apart from the number of deaths and the rate of new cases both dropping, however slowly, there seems little to be cheery about. I really had hoped that the end of June was going to be promising but I am not so hopeful now.