Corona Virus main thread

[KiwiScot 1,478]

This is clearly living with Covid as globally we are no where near vaccinated and vaccines only allow us to continue day to day lives that also serves to keep the virus circulating. We are locked in until we can get a vaccine that kills transmission and enough of the world vaccinated with the latest vaccine within a short time span.

I've been a fan of lockdowns and to answer Ricardo's question "Is it really so impossible for people to make their own decisions about this", well the answer is individually yes, on mass of course not. If things are open people will go so closing everything is the only way. However it's not sustainable. I'd imagined living with it would be near **** all cases with sudden local outbreaks, but it's clear living with it means near constant cases and demands on the health system and staff shortages with regular extremes such as new variants creating waves.

For me now we all have to accept living with it means a constant presence of the virus and that we have to accept varying levels of restrictions to migiate either the economic or health damage as we hit waves or crests etc. You can't lockdown it away forever, but neither can you pretend it's something you can forget about. If it needs a lockdown it needs a lockdown for example. We now also need set finanical packages that can be implemented at every level of restriction and hate to say it, but a national ID system so one thing gives you all the covid related statues you'd need.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

44 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Exactly this. The pro lockdown brigade are more than welcome to stay at home forever if they want to. Nearly 200 million jabs given and huge amounts of antibodies with prior infections. This is as good as it’s going to get. Lockdown now and we will lockdown every winter indefinitely 

There are places where it is safe enough to go and others where not. We were back to sensible at Golf on Sunday. Afterwards in the clubhouse, it was tables of six and we wore masks in corridors, changing rooms and toilets.

If you forget your mask, one is provided and its a £1 fine into the Captain's Charity. Gel freely available. Use the same glass, even for Guinness.

It isn't difficult and no-one complains.

[Virtual reality 718]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

There are places where it is safe enough to go and others where not. We were back to sensible at Golf on Sunday. Afterwards in the clubhouse, it was tables of six and we wore masks in corridors, changing rooms and toilets.

If you forget your mask, one is provided and its a £1 fine into the Captain's Charity. Gel freely available. Use the same glass, even for Guinness.

It isn't difficult and no-one complains.

👍 There we go. Now isn’t that better than us all living in perpetual fear whilst the economy burns, children suffer and everything we had before covid goes down the pan with only a few gigantic companies like Amazon and Apple left to monopolise the world. Personal risk assessment and common courtesy 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

The doubling every 2 days mantra now looks highly suspect, even in London.

The early signs of it burning out in SA I find encouraging, let’s hope we are dealing with something at the positive end of the predictions.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

35 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

👍 There we go. Now isn’t that better than us all living in perpetual fear whilst the economy burns, children suffer and everything we had before covid goes down the pan with only a few gigantic companies like Amazon and Apple left to monopolise the world. Personal risk assessment and common courtesy 

did a bit of Christmas shopping in Manchester today. Was all very calm and civilised, probably 90% masks indoors and 10% outdoors (though still the odd nose poking out... ffs 2 years and people still do that). Nobody moaning or being irrational, just people going about their day. Seemed about as busy as normal so probably covid scares cancelling out what is normally a busy time of year.

There were people of all ages and ethnicities out and about. Thought some of the older folk might be scared to do so but it seems not.

All the talk of deserted high streets must just be mainstream media thing as it wasn't apparent that was the case with my own 2 eyes. Maybe in London and surrounding area since that's basically all they seem to care about.

[Virtual reality 718]

1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said:

did a bit of Christmas shopping in Manchester today. Was all very calm and civilised, probably 90% masks indoors and 10% outdoors (though still the odd nose poking out... ffs 2 years and people still do that). Nobody moaning or being irrational, just people going about their day. Seemed about as busy as normal so probably covid scares cancelling out what is normally a busy time of year.

There were people of all ages and ethnicities out and about. Thought some of the older folk might be scared to do so but it seems not.

All the talk of deserted high streets must just be mainstream media thing as it wasn't apparent that was the case with my own 2 eyes. Maybe in London and surrounding area since that's basically all they seem to care about.

Good to hear. I’ve a confession to make here. I cancelled my place at work Xmas party dinner when the fear propaganda was at its height over this new variant, my reasoning being that if I catch it at the party then that’s Xmas ruined. It’s a decision I’ve regretted for the last week. Once these businesses are gone, they are gone forever. I won’t be repeating that mistake again 

[A Load of Squit 5,222]

The f***ing liar is still lying. 

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

16 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Good to hear. I’ve a confession to make here. I cancelled my place at work Xmas party dinner when the fear propaganda was at its height over this new variant, my reasoning being that if I catch it at the party then that’s Xmas ruined. It’s a decision I’ve regretted for the last week. Once these businesses are gone, they are gone forever. I won’t be repeating that mistake again 

gotta do what's right for you. We plan on our usual family Christmas with some older folk there so I'll be doing very little this week then LFT on Christmas morning just in case this weekends escapades caused anything. I had a fantastic time catching up with my mates then a nice time in Manchester with the wife. If I get Covid, then so be it.

Admittedly if we'd been due to go to London I'd have been a bit more hesitant but I fear more the restrictions than the virus now.

[The Real Buh 3,482]

8 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The f***ing liar is still lying. 

 

If we vaccinated 110% of the population it wouldn’t be enough for you

[Virtual reality 718]

4 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

gotta do what's right for you. We plan on our usual family Christmas with some older folk there so I'll be doing very little this week then LFT on Christmas morning just in case this weekends escapades caused anything. I had a fantastic time catching up with my mates then a nice time in Manchester with the wife. If I get Covid, then so be it.

Admittedly if we'd been due to go to London I'd have been a bit more hesitant but I fear more the restrictions than the virus now.

Exactly the same place I’ve found myself at. Fearing the government’s reactions to the virus over the virus itself 

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

36 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Good to hear. I’ve a confession to make here. I cancelled my place at work Xmas party dinner when the fear propaganda was at its height over this new variant, my reasoning being that if I catch it at the party then that’s Xmas ruined. It’s a decision I’ve regretted for the last week. Once these businesses are gone, they are gone forever. I won’t be repeating that mistake again 

Well that's is what you get when you have a very cynical government more concerned with their popularity (perhaps that should really be lack of popularity) ratings than actually doing their job.

Johnson is so desperate not to give out bad news or too cowardly (probably both), and Sunak is desperate to avoid spending any more cash supporting businesses any further so what we have been getting, once again, is a set of ridiculously mixed messages from a government which is effectively shutting down significant parts of the economy but without Johnson attracting the opprobrium of introducing more legal restrictions and without Sunak spending any more cash.

Thousands of small businesses going to the wall all over the country is clearly a price worth paying for this most malign of governments if it avoids another barney with the nutters on their backbenchs.

[Barbe bleu 832]

The pink un consensus based on the few that were brave enough to venture an opinion appears to be that no new restrictions should be brought in .

 It was a close run thing though with  a couple saying that some legal limits should be brought in. 

No one supported a full lock down but a few wanted businesses to be compensated.

No 'I told you so's from people that didn't comment when we know the results please!

[Herman 9,836]

The thing is Barbe some of us are capable of remembering what happened last year, shocking but true, when we had all made plans only to have to cancel them at the last minute. And contrary to the belief of some on here nobody wants or likes lockdown but we do want a bit of clarity and leadership, so we know where we stand and can plan accordingly. A strict lockdown is unnecessary imo but looking at the stats some sort of restrictions maybe needed.

[The Real Buh 3,482]

7 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The pink un consensus based on the few that were brave enough to venture an opinion appears to be that no new restrictions should be brought in .

 It was a close run thing though with  a couple saying that some legal limits should be brought in. 

No one supported a full lock down but a few wanted businesses to be compensated.

No 'I told you so's from people that didn't comment when we know the results please!

Cases are obviously up but don’t appear to be king as high as all the “scientists” said they would.

Worst case scenarios are fine and obviously a good part of the overall modelling but the government advisers keep getting caught out massively overstating statistics. This is going to lead to a disbelief in their accuracy. “Boy that cried wolf”

hospitalisations aren’t exploding, neither are deaths

Those that want extra lockdowns are, like I said, the “forgot my PE kit every week” brigade. You could call them softies if you like. The like control…. They crave instruction… In all areas of their lives ifyuknowutImean 😉 

You have to resist these people or we’ll be living like this forever, they like it.

[1902 1,167]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The thing is Barbe some of us are capable of remembering what happened last year, shocking but true, when we had all made plans only to have to cancel them at the last minute. And contrary to the belief of some on here nobody wants or likes lockdown but we do want a bit of clarity and leadership, so we know where we stand and can plan accordingly. A strict lockdown is unnecessary imo but looking at the stats some sort of restrictions maybe needed.

Didn't you hear Herman, anyone who even suggests this thing might get out of control and that some kind of contingency needs to be considered for if they do is a softie into S and M. 

They also hate children, businesses and don't care about mental health by virtue of having a different view about how to respond to a disease.

Get with the programme, differing opinions can't possibly come from concern for their fellow citizens. Only selfishness, weakness, laziness or sympathy for authoritarian regimes of the 1930s could possibly explain it. 

[Yellow Fever 3,839]

1 hour ago, 1902 said:

Didn't you hear Herman, anyone who even suggests this thing might get out of control and that some kind of contingency needs to be considered for if they do is a softie into S and M. 

They also hate children, businesses and don't care about mental health by virtue of having a different view about how to respond to a disease.

Get with the programme, differing opinions can't possibly come from concern for their fellow citizens. Only selfishness, weakness, laziness or sympathy for authoritarian regimes of the 1930s could possibly explain it. 

As I understand it there is more real world data out today on the severity of the disease (Ferguson). To delay a day to see this is understandable.

Unless there is unambiguous evidence that it is significantly less severe (5, 10 times) than previous strains anything other than 'action this day' by Johnson would simply be a dereliction of duty to the British peoples. If he can't lead and take tough decisions, especially with his own party, then simply he is no prime minister at all.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[Barbe bleu 832]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

A strict lockdown is unnecessary imo but looking at the stats some sort of restrictions maybe needed.

Another option 2.  Its getting more finely balanced but not making a territorial break out just yet.

3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

 

Those that want extra lockdowns are, like I said, the “forgot my PE kit every week” brigade. You could call them softies if you like. The like control…. They crave instruction… In all areas of their lives ifyuknowutImean 😉 

I appreciate this is one of his more entertaining parody accounts but I'll call this a call for option 3 (no restrictions)  and ppssobly an illustration of just how much opinion on this is driven by politics and not  data 

[Van wink 2,994]

48 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As I understand it there is more real world data out today on the severity of the disease (Ferguson). To delay a day to see this is understandable.

 

Yeh, this is what Jeremy Farrar said this morning, a lot of new data expected shortly so we might as well now wait and see what it says. I would have introduced vaccine passports months ago which imo would have lead to greater vaccine take up and placed us in a better position than we are now.

[KernowCanary 214]

15 hours ago, Virtual reality said:

Exactly this. The pro lockdown brigade are more than welcome to stay at home forever if they want to. Nearly 200 million jabs given and huge amounts of antibodies with prior infections. This is as good as it’s going to get. Lockdown now and we will lockdown every winter indefinitely 

Well said, how anyone can be a fan of lockdowns confuses me.

[ricardo 7,402]

19 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Another option 2.  Its getting more finely balanced but not making a territorial break out just yet.

I appreciate this is one of his more entertaining parody accounts but I'll call this a call for option 3 (no restrictions)  and ppssobly an illustration of just how much opinion on this is driven by politics and not  data 

Option 4

Use your brain and do what you think is best for you and your family.

[sonyc 5,541]

2 hours ago, 1902 said:

Didn't you hear Herman, anyone who even suggests this thing might get out of control and that some kind of contingency needs to be considered for if they do is a softie into S and M. 

They also hate children, businesses and don't care about mental health by virtue of having a different view about how to respond to a disease.

Get with the programme, differing opinions can't possibly come from concern for their fellow citizens. Only selfishness, weakness, laziness or sympathy for authoritarian regimes of the 1930s could possibly explain it. 

Thanks for that. I had begun to be concerned.

Its odd, having worked a whole life thinking about the welfare of others through multiple jobs, let alone the sheer worry and concern in bringing up children safely, that one should start to feel a sense of shame for having a similar concern for the welfare of others in a pandemic.

Suddenly, you start to wonder if you are someone on the totalitarian far right (or left) who wants to get everyone to do as you say, just because you're in favour of vaccines, happening to believe in expert opinion or scientists.

And if said scientists get it wrong with their modelling then you'll never believe a word they say again - but you would rather go along with a rabidly populist government, one that is afraid to take leadership, for fear of parts of their own side turning against them. Not for them what's the best reasoned response for looking after its citizens but more for what is right for them. Or for their friends or supporters. 

No wonder there is such divergence in opinions and disagreement in the country when the coordination of the response to a pandemic is so shifting, reactive to polls and internal pressure, when it has become murky at times (contracts, donations) and when its own behaviours have belied it's own words and strictures (one rule for them etc). It's been poor management let's face it, wherever our personal politics lies.

It isn't easy either making decisions and the world over, mistake after mistake has been made. Some seemingly far worse than the UK. I'm not being critical for the sake of it. But, just go back to the litany of missteps this administration has been involved with. Can we honestly give it more than 3/10 or 4/10? 

Hopefully January will see the start of an end to the pandemic. This administration hasn't shown much capability and it badly needs the pandemic to improve. It's been too much to handle. Less so it seems for Sturgeon or Drakeford. Like them or hate them, their leadership throughout all of this has been much more sure-footed.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by sonyc

[Yellow Fever 3,839]

25 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Option 4

Use your brain and do what you think is best for you and your family.

This is the problem Ricardo.

What's best for me and my family may not be what's best for you and your family.

It's rather like speed limits on roads -  many of us may bend them slightly to get there faster but all would I think agree they are there for the safety of all.

[Icecream Snow 762]

36 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Hopefully January will see the start of an end to the pandemic. This administration hasn't shown much capability and it badly needs the pandemic to improve. It's been too much to handle. Less so it seems for Sturgeon or Drakeford. Like them or hate them, their leadership throughout all of this has been much more sure-footed.

 

Both Sturgeon and Drakeford were sensible enough not to break the rules. I know Sturgeon had a minor transgression or two, but starting with ****'s trip to Barnard Castle, and now with the various Tory parties, it's hard for the English public to take tough measures from the Johnson administration seriously.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is the problem Ricardo.

What's best for me and my family may not be what's best for you and your family.

It's rather like speed limits on roads -  many of us may bend them slightly to get there faster but all would I think agree they are there for the safety of all.

you can hardly compare not being legally able to go above 70mph on a motorway to not being legally able to have family round your house like would be the case with going back to step 2.

I'll remain firmly on the fence for now regarding vaccine passports etc. but going back to step 2 just is more dystopian ****e and will do more harm than good. Do you really see it either being just 2 weeks or actually making any difference now?

They can shut the pubs etc all they like but I'm not going to stop using my brain and deciding what's best for me and my family. We are all triple vaccinated, can all do lft tests when required and have all the data available that we need to make our own informed decisions now.

People will continue to make decisions (good or bad) regardless of the rules and there comes a point where its just not fair to collectively punish the masses. The hard truth is that there will be some unfortunate people caught in the crossfires as there are with many things in life but life must go on.

The government isn't supposed to be there to change your nappy, its there to guide and empower society into making the country a better place for everyone. Perhaps its time to look long term at the damage their greed is causing society and stop punishing us all for their incompetence.

[Icecream Snow 762]

So is former Chief of Staff Dominic Cummings a banned word, or did I misspell it ?

[sonyc 5,541]

8 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

So is former Chief of Staff Dominic Cummings a banned word, or did I misspell it ?

It does that to his name at times oddly, I think because of the first three letters of his name. It is censored. Same on Twitter. Unfortunate I think.

Edit: In terms of the second part of Dominic's surname,  Tyrone Mings ought to fall under the same procedure....and we could all fill the ***** in with whatever word came to mind 😉

Edited December 21, 2021 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,281]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Option 4

Use your brain and do what you think is best for you and your family.

That was option 1 discussed, no regulation.

[Well b back 3,281]

46 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

So is former Chief of Staff Dominic Cummings a banned word, or did I misspell it ?

Bet it is in number 10. In number 11 they are probably looking forward to his next moves.

[Aggy 766]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is the problem Ricardo.

What's best for me and my family may not be what's best for you and your family.

It's rather like speed limits on roads -  many of us may bend them slightly to get there faster but all would I think agree they are there for the safety of all.

Except we don’t pick and choose which cars speed limits apply to. Red cars statistically in more crashes - red cars have to stick to speed limits but blue ones don’t? 

What was best for the families of those who died from “normal” flu in 2015? 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Aggy

[Aggy 766]

4 hours ago, 1902 said:

 

Get with the programme, differing opinions can't possibly come from concern for their fellow citizens. 

Appreciate this is partially tongue in cheek, but as a genuine question, don’t you feel even slightly hypocritical saying things like this knowing you’ve happily spread deadly infectious diseases your whole life and didn’t care one bit?