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USA Canary

Fer to Sheffield United

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He's not the kind of Player to cover their overlapping Centre halves. Where the hell is CW gonna play him.

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

Shhh! Don't tell them!

Seriously though LDC, where do you play Fer in a hard working Team, honestly think that CW will be pulling his hair out as the admittedly elegant Fer swans around, pointing where he thinks other players should be, as play passes him by...in the wrong direction.

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2 minutes ago, USA Canary said:

https://the72.co.uk/139768/sheffield-united-could-hand-ex-norwich-city-qpr-and-swansea-city-man-a-premier-league-lifeline/

...well that’s them relegated for sure then! Three prior relegations on his CV...

When I read the article, I thought "one down, two to go"! 👍

However, I can't see him fitting into the Wilder mould - and as for going in for hard tackles..... Next.

What I don't understand about Sheff U and AV's signings, is how the new players are being assessed as to their suitability to the environment both teams have created in getting to the PL.

It seems to me that Sheff U are starting to panic buy. Maybe under pressure from their fans, maybe worried at what AV are doing, but they suddenly seemed to have picked up momentum in their recruitment. I don't see any cohesive pattern to it.

Maybe they are concerned at the number of players we have picked up - perhaps being unaware that the majority are for the youth and development teams - and some even going out on loan.

I know that AV had a plethora of loans last season and had to actually get some players onto their own books - but that means that a fair number of players wont get "rewarded" for their endeavours last year and is likely to cause some simmering resentment (if not from the players, then certainly from their WAGs!). Remember we did that with Malky & Iwan - and that went well didn't it!

Finally, to echo what many have been saying on this and other sites (sorry Pete - there are other sites as well), I don't recall ever having felt so optimistic about the season ahead.

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7 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Seriously though LDC, where do you play Fer in a hard working Team, honestly think that CW will be pulling his hair out as the admittedly elegant Fer swans around, pointing where he thinks other players should be, as play passes him by...in the wrong direction.

Nowhere!  I really hope they get him, it would be priceless.

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On his day he's a Rolls Royce of a player, trouble is, with all the Clubs he's played for he's had to dig in and that's not his game. 

He'll get a few starts at the beginning, but once Blades start struggling for points he'll get sidelined and become an expensive bench warmer.

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22 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Who holds the record for most Premier League relegations?

....Ashley Ward must be up there?....Norwich,Derby,Barnsley,Blackburn and Bradford ???

Hermann Hreidarsson and Nathan Blake with five a piece. Ashley Ward only has four I understand.

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The Fer of 2019 is a different player to the one that was at Norwich. While not the greatest praise, he was probably the best player at Swansea in their relegation season.  

He has learnt to graft more and is now a decent holding midfielder, with the ability to bring the ball out of midfield. 

He’d be an inexpensive way to add Premier League experience into the Sheff U squad and I don’t think he’d be seen as a starting player anyway. Norwood and Fleck have those positions nailed down. 

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The Fer of 2019 is still a relegated (again) Fer. Didnt strike me as anything vaguely special last season either.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

The Fer of 2019 is still a relegated (again) Fer. Didnt strike me as anything vaguely special last season either.

For a back up player on a free I think he'd represent a decent move for Sheff U. 

He didn't really suit the Potter, possession style, he isn't the greatest passer of the ball, but he still did a solid job in their midfield break up opposition attacks. Will be interesting to see him in a Wilder team, should he decide to move there - think he could get a lot out of him.

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17 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

For a back up player on a free I think he'd represent a decent move for Sheff U. 

He didn't really suit the Potter, possession style, he isn't the greatest passer of the ball, but he still did a solid job in their midfield break up opposition attacks. Will be interesting to see him in a Wilder team, should he decide to move there - think he could get a lot out of him.

I guess he could be physically imposing if someone (Wilder) could convince him to do it on a regular basis. Personally? The last 6 years of Fer's career suggest otherwise.

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Fer was a far better player than we ever saw at Norwich City. He came as an attacking midfielder who could break into the box and score goals. We rarely saw that. Playing in a system with inverted wingers that Hughton employed, the space in the box was always squeezed shut, leaving him with nowhere to go. He was then 'converted' into a more defensive player, something that he did not do well and something our supporters remember that he did not do well! We bought him for over £4M which was less than half of what Everton were prepared to pay prior to a knee problem being discovered. He was another good player that was ruined by Hughton.

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10 hours ago, Yellow Wal said:

Fer was a far better player than we ever saw at Norwich City. He came as an attacking midfielder who could break into the box and score goals. We rarely saw that. Playing in a system with inverted wingers that Hughton employed, the space in the box was always squeezed shut, leaving him with nowhere to go. He was then 'converted' into a more defensive player, something that he did not do well and something our supporters remember that he did not do well! We bought him for over £4M which was less than half of what Everton were prepared to pay prior to a knee problem being discovered. He was another good player that was ruined by Hughton.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that tbh.

The final sentence did make me think of something potentially interesting, that being that we are in a world that loves to play the blame game, where it's always someone else's fault, that no matter how utterly foolish an action may be - there's always a scapegoat to pin that idiocy on, so with that in mind, I really wonder what would happen if one of these players brought a legal action against a former manager for 'destruction of career' or something similar?

Fer was on the fast track to a top career, breaking into the Dutch international squad, well regarded by a number of clubs, young and full of potential, and here we are 5 years later with him having 3 relegations on his CV and laughing at Sheff Utd for thinking of signing him!

Take RvW (I'll be brief, I promise), another hotshot young striker on the back of a number of high-scoring seasons, another player breaking into the Dutch squad and being scouted by the likes of Man Utd, he's then horribly misused under Hughton and his career goes from the upward trend it was on into a massive nosedive that he's only recently started to recover from, and he will still never likely get close to being in the Premier League or similar again.

Maybe we can argue that neither player was good enough, but maybe they have a case to suggest that if they'd been playing in the roles they were suited to rather than shoehorned into a system that suited neither, then they'd have continued to improve and potentially got moves to bigger and better clubs on the back of it. On that basis, there may well be a judge somewhere that might think they have a point and make a landmark ruling that could change football as we know it (unlikely, but in the current laughable judicial system, anything's possible).

I wonder how Maddison would have done in that Hughton team? Surely would have suffered the same problem that Wes and Fer did, would likely have never been able to demonstrate his true talent in that No 10 role, it could easily have slowed or even halted his development, and thus the likelihood of being a future England regular could have gone up in dire, defensive smoke...

Makes you think, doesn't it?

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12 hours ago, hogesar said:

The Fer of 2019 is still a relegated (again) Fer. Didnt strike me as anything vaguely special last season either.

Rather like my opinion on Srbeny then ? 😜

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1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Rather like my opinion on Srbeny then ? 😜

Hey, Fer would at the very least be a standout performer down Sloughbottom!

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2 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

I'd agree with pretty much all of that tbh.

The final sentence did make me think of something potentially interesting, that being that we are in a world that loves to play the blame game, where it's always someone else's fault, that no matter how utterly foolish an action may be - there's always a scapegoat to pin that idiocy on, so with that in mind, I really wonder what would happen if one of these players brought a legal action against a former manager for 'destruction of career' or something similar?

Fer was on the fast track to a top career, breaking into the Dutch international squad, well regarded by a number of clubs, young and full of potential, and here we are 5 years later with him having 3 relegations on his CV and laughing at Sheff Utd for thinking of signing him!

Take RvW (I'll be brief, I promise), another hotshot young striker on the back of a number of high-scoring seasons, another player breaking into the Dutch squad and being scouted by the likes of Man Utd, he's then horribly misused under Hughton and his career goes from the upward trend it was on into a massive nosedive that he's only recently started to recover from, and he will still never likely get close to being in the Premier League or similar again.

Maybe we can argue that neither player was good enough, but maybe they have a case to suggest that if they'd been playing in the roles they were suited to rather than shoehorned into a system that suited neither, then they'd have continued to improve and potentially got moves to bigger and better clubs on the back of it. On that basis, there may well be a judge somewhere that might think they have a point and make a landmark ruling that could change football as we know it (unlikely, but in the current laughable judicial system, anything's possible).

I wonder how Maddison would have done in that Hughton team? Surely would have suffered the same problem that Wes and Fer did, would likely have never been able to demonstrate his true talent in that No 10 role, it could easily have slowed or even halted his development, and thus the likelihood of being a future England regular could have gone up in dire, defensive smoke...

Makes you think, doesn't it?

What’s laughable about the current judicial system out of interest?

If such a claim was going to have any chance of success, it would have been brought by now. 

I imagine a manager/club’s argued defence would likely be that they are tasked with success of the club, not an individual player’s future success. It would also be pretty hard to prove the manager/club is the main/sole reason the player didn’t progress (literally thousands of players show great potential and don’t live up to it - is that all because of the manager’s tactics, or a whole host of things including the player’s attitude, player’s ability, form, luck etc?). It would also be pretty hard to show what the losses would be - plenty of players look like absolute world beaters at the “smaller” club but flop when they get a big move, get sold after a year and never earn as much again - how can you say what the player would have earned? 

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Im going to say something very controversial here, but at the time I thought Fer was one of the best centre-mids we'd ever had. Let me explain. I remember saying that we had a team full of midfielders with singular qualities, and we kind of needed to play them all to get all their attributes on the pitch. We needed BJ or Tettey to win/intercept the ball, then lay it off to Fox to play in Wes, who would then create the space for the forwards.

Fer was the first all-round centre-mid we'd had for a long time. He was the first player who could do the lot. Unfortuntely, Hughton didnt really know what to do with him, even admitting when we signed him that he didnt know where he was going to play him.

That we didnt see the best of Fer was a real shame as he was exactly the kind of step up in quality we needed to progress.

 

I know plenty will disagree with me here, but hey, if we all agreed life would be very boring!

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3 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

I'd agree with pretty much all of that tbh.

The final sentence did make me think of something potentially interesting, that being that we are in a world that loves to play the blame game, where it's always someone else's fault, that no matter how utterly foolish an action may be - there's always a scapegoat to pin that idiocy on, so with that in mind, I really wonder what would happen if one of these players brought a legal action against a former manager for 'destruction of career' or something similar?

Fer was on the fast track to a top career, breaking into the Dutch international squad, well regarded by a number of clubs, young and full of potential, and here we are 5 years later with him having 3 relegations on his CV and laughing at Sheff Utd for thinking of signing him!

Take RvW (I'll be brief, I promise), another hotshot young striker on the back of a number of high-scoring seasons, another player breaking into the Dutch squad and being scouted by the likes of Man Utd, he's then horribly misused under Hughton and his career goes from the upward trend it was on into a massive nosedive that he's only recently started to recover from, and he will still never likely get close to being in the Premier League or similar again.

Maybe we can argue that neither player was good enough, but maybe they have a case to suggest that if they'd been playing in the roles they were suited to rather than shoehorned into a system that suited neither, then they'd have continued to improve and potentially got moves to bigger and better clubs on the back of it. On that basis, there may well be a judge somewhere that might think they have a point and make a landmark ruling that could change football as we know it (unlikely, but in the current laughable judicial system, anything's possible).

I wonder how Maddison would have done in that Hughton team? Surely would have suffered the same problem that Wes and Fer did, would likely have never been able to demonstrate his true talent in that No 10 role, it could easily have slowed or even halted his development, and thus the likelihood of being a future England regular could have gone up in dire, defensive smoke...

Makes you think, doesn't it?

I often thought Snodgrass would have made a good No 10. Lacking the pace to be a winger, horribly one-footed but ineffective on the left (see pace), but nevertheless a very good player. Perhaps No 10 would have reduced the impact of his limitations and made the most of his talents, rather like when Lambo moved Wes off the wing and turned him into a trequartista

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7 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I often thought Snodgrass would have made a good No 10. Lacking the pace to be a winger, horribly one-footed but ineffective on the left (see pace), but nevertheless a very good player. Perhaps No 10 would have reduced the impact of his limitations and made the most of his talents, rather like when Lambo moved Wes off the wing and turned him into a trequartista

Oh s4it, Bill's going to love you  🤣🤣

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RvW will never play in the premier league again because he is no where near good enough to play in the top division of English football.

If he were to try and sue Hughton for that it would only take a couple of video clips (yes, ghost pass included) for him to be laughed out of the courtroom. 

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The arguement isn't whether the player is good enough or not, it's whether they could have been.

Both Fer and RvW came to Norwich with good reputations, both had broken into the international team which was rated 4th or 5th in the world or were on the fringe of the team.

The question is, how much could their careers have developed in a different team with different instructions? 

As far as Snodgrass is concerned, I think he did quite well for Scotland as a No 10. Anything must have been better than being an inverted winger under Hughton. 

As far as Hughton is concerned ..... any Championship team wanting promotion should appoint him now. As long as they remember to sack him when they are promoted.

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Fer could have been something- you could see his touch, vision and ability on the ball in tight spaces. Unfortunately for him he was playing in a system that didn't make the most of those talents.

I'm fairly certain RVW wouldn't have made it here under a different manager. He was probably the most lightweight player I've ever seen and spent so much time on his **** looking accusingly at the referee for free kicks that never would have been given. Maybe he would have bulked up over the off-season but none of his talents seemed designed to a team scrapping at the bottom of the Premier League. He's a poacher and teams like us can't carry poachers. He's best suited to bigger teams in smaller leagues where he gets the regular chances created for him because he doesn't have the attributes to make them himself.

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This is quite frankly a ridiculous conversation! Why should a footballer be able to sue because they haven't reached their potential? What about everyone else who gets stuck in a dead end job and doesn't reach their potential? Could they sue their work, or their uni, or even their primary school? "Oooh little Jimmy was so bright, he could write his name by the age of 3 and was playing chess age 5, but now he's a barrista. The school let him down and didn't help him achieve his potential, let's sue!"

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9 hours ago, cornish sam said:

This is quite frankly a ridiculous conversation! Why should a footballer be able to sue because they haven't reached their potential?

 

I'd argue that it would fall under the category of "Loss of chance", with the argument being that the player was utilised in a negligent way, resulting in loss of performance and thus interest from other bigger clubs, and therefore he has lost both significant income and stature in the game because of said negligence and should be able to claim damages for the loss of that chance.

Don't get me wrong Cornish, the whole idea is somewhat tongue in cheek, but when I see people suing over packets of nuts that didn't have the label "May contain nuts", or the woman who sued McDonalds after burning herself on a coffee - because it didn't say that her coffee would be hot on the outside of the packaging (even though she hadn't ordered an iced or even cold coffee), it makes me wonder how much other spurious nonsense can actually get past a judge at times.

I'd certainly argue that a player who has always performed a certain role in a certain way and who is then asked to play completely differently which is thereby affecting their performance and saleability and future career earnings, is far more valid an argument than the "I tripped on a paving stone because I was too busy looking at my phone, and got 5k compo from the council" brigade...

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1 hour ago, Indy_Bones said:

I'd argue that it would fall under the category of "Loss of chance", with the argument being that the player was utilised in a negligent way, resulting in loss of performance and thus interest from other bigger clubs, and therefore he has lost both significant income and stature in the game because of said negligence and should be able to claim damages for the loss of that chance.

Don't get me wrong Cornish, the whole idea is somewhat tongue in cheek, but when I see people suing over packets of nuts that didn't have the label "May contain nuts", or the woman who sued McDonalds after burning herself on a coffee - because it didn't say that her coffee would be hot on the outside of the packaging (even though she hadn't ordered an iced or even cold coffee), it makes me wonder how much other spurious nonsense can actually get past a judge at times.

I'd certainly argue that a player who has always performed a certain role in a certain way and who is then asked to play completely differently which is thereby affecting their performance and saleability and future career earnings, is far more valid an argument than the "I tripped on a paving stone because I was too busy looking at my phone, and got 5k compo from the council" brigade...

What would the negligence be? Why is it negligent to either not pick a player who doesn’t fit into your system/style of play, or to play a player in a position you think is better suited to them or the team?

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2 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

 [...]the woman who sued McDonalds after burning herself on a coffee - because it didn't say that her coffee would be hot on the outside of the packaging (even though she hadn't ordered an iced or even cold coffee), it makes me wonder how much other spurious nonsense can actually get past a judge at times.

If you actually knew the details of the court case, rather than just repeating the misrepresentation of the case then you’d understand why she sued. 

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

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