Delia, Webber and Stone speak

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

An interesting piece from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/06/delia-smith-hails-norwich-new-direction-improve-academy---Two quotes from Delia caught my eye:“Why don’t the board release the purse strings? Well, I certainly feel

that my experience of the Premier League was that we never had any

money. Even if we got promoted this year, we still wouldn’t have had any

money, the way the wages are."Which rather runs counter to the Webber claim that the club p*ssed away millions. and:“We’re not going to stand in the way [of outside investment].” She also says she would be

willing to consider putting the club into fan ownership. But any

agreement would have to be one she felt was right for the club.  

[BroadstairsR 2,213]

Promoted clubs do not necessarily have to pay high wages all-round.

They can stick with what they have got apart from bonuses surely and sink or swim.

Even one season in the PL enhances the profile of the club as we entertain the best in the land, take place on MotD and get more coverage in the press. We also get international recognition and the ability to attract the better players at the right deal.

The tv money is lucrative.

Failure and it''s parachutes.

I don''t get Delia over this. Perhaps she is admitting past mistakes, even though these have bee moderate compared with many others such as Sunderland and WBA and Villa.

Never resign yourself to second best.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Go up, make minor changes to the squad, get relegated.

Isn’t that worth about 200million on it’s own these days?

Seems strange to admit you would rather be a small community club than as big as you can be?

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Promoted clubs do not necessarily have to pay high wages all-round.

They can stick with what they have got apart from bonuses surely and sink or swim.

Even one season in the PL enhances the profile of the club as we entertain the best in the land, take place on MotD and get more coverage in the press. We also get international recognition and the ability to attract the better players at the right deal.

The tv money is lucrative.

Failure and it''s parachutes.

I don''t get Delia over this. Perhaps she is admitting past mistakes, even though these have bee moderate compared with many others such as Sunderland and WBA and Villa.

Never resign yourself to second best.[/quote]That is true. You can do what Burnley did and in effect budget to get relegated. But that would go down very badly with a considerable section of fans, especially given the particular "Little Norwich" complaint against these owners. And if it didn''t work - ie the club, having been relegated didn''t then get promoted back - all h*ll would break loose.

[kdncfc 27]

Would the Auxerre she refers to in the article be the same ones who are now below mid table in the second division not having played in the top division for 7 years?Would be good if it works but can''t see it myself, any decent player we do manage to produce will quickly be sold just to keep the club afloat.

[River End Canary 18]

Spectacular lack of vision

I want her proactively courting stinking rich Chinese owners for investment not waiting for them to approach

Today is important it''s not the end of the stowmarket 2 but it is the beginning of the end

[FenwayFrank 2,469]

Just for a second I thought we had a new poster ....

[AJ 1,232]

We made mistakes financially, massive ones. There''s no doubt signings like Mulumbu, Fer, Van Wolfswinkel etc were all on high wages and often for high fees everywhere and they did nothing to help our cause whatsoever, and if anything actually had negative impacts.

The only time we kept the correct ethos was under Lambert where we continued to find young and hungry lower league gems and have them playing at the knife edge of their ability. Other teams are doing the same thing successfully, such as Huddersfield, Bournemouth and previously Southampton (albeit they have sold all their best players and are now struggling in the lower reaches of the Prem...)

We pissed money away on wages we did not need to be paying out and it has left us where we are, financially crippled into selling our best assets.

Like Alex Neil, if we had stuck to our guns we might have been okay!

[Jim Smith 2,345]

Funny how you have this conversation in 1996 but then wait 22 years to do anything about it. Funny also how Auxerres troubles and slide into the second division seem to have coincided with money coming into French football and dare I say it top flight clubs being bought by wealthy owners?

Of course their utopian vision would be great if you could do it and compete at the top level. Perhaps if we had done this when in the premier we might have had a chance. Doing it now seems very unlikely to succeed.

[TIL 1010 4,801]

It is the consideration of fan ownership that has me cringing. Who amongst our fan base could possibly consider themselves able to run a football club as it would cause more divisions than are currently springing up all over forums and social media ?

[BroadstairsR 2,213]

"That is true. You can do what Burnley did and in effect budget to get relegated. But that would go down very badly with a considerable section of fans, especially given the particular "Little Norwich" complaint against these owners. And if it didn''t work - ie the club, having been relegated didn''t then get promoted back - all h*ll would break loose."

I don''t necessarily agree with that PC. I sense that the majority of the fan-base are savvy by now to the reality of the situation. They have had a lot of experience after all, and quite a bit of that experience has been sad, bad and highly dangerous..

Sensible fans would, imo, realise our limitations and be grateful for a repeat excursion onto the top-table and it''s potential stream of wealth however brief. The opposite is worse in any case ie. mid-table, loss-making monotony.

Some younger or more hot-headed of the support might reasonably expect more ambition, but might I suggest that the likes of you and me are more realistic.

Besides, the PL currently looks quite weak away from the top six to ten. More "smaller" clubs than is usual occupy a PL place and all of them are, in effect, fighting relegation from the first game of the season.

The rule of the big-boys is more or less set in concrete. The rest are mostly on a survival mission and just counting the rewards. Some will use these wisely, some will be more frugal. There is no set rule for success/survival.

[BroadstairsR 2,213]

@TIL

You have made that point before, but might I suggest that only the more able and experienced of the fan-base would be nominated for a position on the fledgling board.

They do exist, although they might not necessarily contribute to football forums.

I cannot realistically foresee a boardroom made up of any of us lot.

[TIL 1010 4,801]

Broady the most respected fan in the world of business resigned and that was Alan Bowkett. Nobody that i am aware of who is a Norwich City fan comes remotely close.

[komakino 275]

Delia: ''You can''t have a one man show''

What have you been doing then?

She''s an absolutely hypocrite. The staff at Carrow Road will be laughing their heads off at that statement. Plus saying she wouldn''t rule out outside investment when she knows fully well that nobody will invest while she is still there.

She''s still banging on about this ''Community Club'' cobblers. Nobody really gives a damn about that, they just want Norwich to be as successful as they can.

Delia should buy a local team as that is her level.

[Van wink 2,994]

A future bond issue could be used to fund a safe standing area!!

Doesn’t Stone read this forum, if he did he would have been advised against such folly by the many resident experts!

[Badger 2,412]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]It is the consideration of fan ownership that has me cringing. Who amongst our fan base could possibly consider themselves able to run a football club as it would cause more divisions than are currently springing up all over forums and social media ?[/quote]1. Fan ownership would not have to mean "fan-run."2. With regards, divisions "all over forums," you need to remember that a few posters with invariably negative and prodigious output are not representative of the fan base. Some clearly are "on a wind-up;"the lack of intelligence of some others would get them laughed at in a real public forum - but post continually, some have a political agenda and others post but seem to have given up going to games years ago. Social media isn''t a very good way to judge peoples'' opinions. IMO most people are (predictably) cheesed off with out home form, but have some hope for the new structure and like the idea of "growing our own."

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Promoted clubs do not necessarily have to pay high wages all-round.

They can stick with what they have got apart from bonuses surely and sink or swim.

Even one season in the PL enhances the profile of the club as we entertain the best in the land, take place on MotD and get more coverage in the press. We also get international recognition and the ability to attract the better players at the right deal.

The tv money is lucrative.

Failure and it''s parachutes.

I don''t get Delia over this. Perhaps she is admitting past mistakes, even though these have bee moderate compared with many others such as Sunderland and WBA and Villa.

Never resign yourself to second best.[/quote]

Well, she came out as a remainer before the referendum, and this is

typical remainer speak, showing no ambition or appreciation of how a

better future could be attained, and being in total denial of the money

that has been frittered away by some awful decisions, especially in the

transfer market.  Fear of the future change condemns us to the status quo.

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Broady the most respected fan in the world of business resigned and that was Alan Bowkett. Nobody that i am aware of who is a Norwich City fan comes remotely close.[/quote]I thought that was Peter Cullum...[:)][:O][;)][:P][:|][:''(][:D][:@][6][:^)][8-)][U]

[BroadstairsR 2,213]

"Broady the most respected fan in the world of business resigned and that was Alan Bowkett. Nobody that i am aware of who is a Norwich City fan comes remotely close."

Then you probably exist in the wrong circles T1010. I probably do as well because I am unaware of the Norfolk elite these days.

There are a few ex-City players who could be considered for a starters though. Some are very committed to the club and have the right experience by the bucket load.

I might also include Gladys the tea lady, but she would come at a price.

Also, as has been pointed out, nominated members need not necessarily be City fans.

[komakino 275]

Bowkett was a big loss for the club IMO. The only one I could trust on the board at that time.

[king canary 7,681]

The point about another bond is troubling to me- is the future essentially borrowing money off the fans every time we need to upgrade our infrastructure.

[Ray 111]

TIL1010,

Re Bowkett, undoubtedly a top businessman, however among the 25,000 or so who attend every week and the tens of thousands of fans who do/can not, I am certain there are individuals (or a group of such) with sufficient acumen to run a football club. Whether they want to however is a different proposition.

[Duncan Edwards 2,271]

I think I’d be an excellent addition to the board. Guess I’ll have to wait and see if I’m approached to discuss the possibility.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

[quote user="kdncfc"]Would the Auxerre she refers to in the article be the same ones who are now below mid table in the second division not having played in the top division for 7 years?[/quote]

THIS. Her ownership ideal belongs in the past, it won''t bring the club success now or in the future.

She''s deluded  and a total hypocrite, she has to go!

I really wish she''s just give a straight answer to "if someone came in to buy the club from you, promising to invest but that you wouldn''t make a profit from the sake, would you step aside?". In fact I wish someone would just ask the bloody question.

[king canary 7,681]

I don''t have any problem with them making a profit from any sale.

My question is more what conditions are they putting on outside investment. It has seemed in the past like they wanted others to invest without giving up their control which isn''t a hugely appealing offer

[Miss Demeanor 67]

No mention of the inheritance to Tom. I wonder if that will ever happen??😋😏😉

[Len 74]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Broady the most respected fan in the world of business resigned and that was Alan Bowkett. Nobody that i am aware of who is a Norwich City fan comes remotely close.[/quote]Bowkett had a reputation in the City as an asset stripper, perhaps very able at things like budgeting, but not the sort of person who had much of a clue on how to build a business organically.Unsurprisingly it was his tenure on the board which helped lead us into today''s tight situation, with little of the PL millions invested in our run down facilities, most of it "p1$$ed up the wall" with no real return on our investment.

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

[quote user="AJ"]We made mistakes financially, massive ones. There''s no doubt signings like Mulumbu, Fer, Van Wolfswinkel etc were all on high wages and often for high fees everywhere and they did nothing to help our cause whatsoever, and if anything actually had negative impacts.

The only time we kept the correct ethos was under Lambert where we continued to find young and hungry lower league gems and have them playing at the knife edge of their ability. Other teams are doing the same thing successfully, such as Huddersfield, Bournemouth and previously Southampton (albeit they have sold all their best players and are now struggling in the lower reaches of the Prem...)

We pissed money away on wages we did not need to be paying out and it has left us where we are, financially crippled into selling our best assets.

Like Alex Neil, if we had stuck to our guns we might have been okay![/quote]Except that just is not true. I could overload this with figures but I will stick to the most obviously relevant ones. In the four seasons we were in the Premier League we  finished 19th, 17th=, 17th and 18th in the wage league table. And as The Guardian''s David Conn, who analyses football finance for a living, pointed out, with Norwich City "player wages are significantly linked to performance." So the basic wages were kept in check.Of course you can always point to a very few players who didn''t do well and so claim their wages were wasted. But that could apply to any club in the country. The difference with Norwich City is that our finances are so constrained that any mistakes hurt us more than most.I know Webber has claimed we wasted millions upon millions, but him saying it does not make it true. Some fans seem to think because he is a blunt speaker he must therefore not be spinning. Well, you can speak bluntly and still be spinning. I don''t blame him for painting the situation he inherited and the way the club had been run up to that point in such derisive terms, but overall the facts tell a different story.

[nutty nigel 7,648]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="AJ"]We made mistakes financially, massive ones. There''s no doubt signings like Mulumbu, Fer, Van Wolfswinkel etc were all on high wages and often for high fees everywhere and they did nothing to help our cause whatsoever, and if anything actually had negative impacts.

The only time we kept the correct ethos was under Lambert where we continued to find young and hungry lower league gems and have them playing at the knife edge of their ability. Other teams are doing the same thing successfully, such as Huddersfield, Bournemouth and previously Southampton (albeit they have sold all their best players and are now struggling in the lower reaches of the Prem...)

We pissed money away on wages we did not need to be paying out and it has left us where we are, financially crippled into selling our best assets.

Like Alex Neil, if we had stuck to our guns we might have been okay![/quote]Except that just is not true. I could overload this with figures but I will stick to the most obviously relevant ones. In the four seasons we were in the Premier League we  finished 19th, 17th=, 17th and 18th in the wage league table. And as The Guardian''s David Conn, who analyses football finance for a living, pointed out, with Norwich City "player wages are significantly linked to performance." So the basic wages were kept in check.Of course you can always point to a very few players who didn''t do well and so claim their wages were wasted. But that could apply to any club in the country. The difference with Norwich City is that our finances are so constrained that any mistakes hurt us more than most.I know Webber has claimed we wasted millions upon millions, but him saying it does not make it true. Some fans seem to think because he is a blunt speaker he must therefore not be spinning. Well, you can speak bluntly and still be spinning. I don''t blame him for painting the situation he inherited and the way the club had been run up to that point in such derisive terms, but overall the facts tell a different story.[/quote]

This crazes me. On the same thread you have posters hanging out of Bowkett''s backside and yet criticising his policies. I was at the meetings and forums and virtually everyone was in agreement with the policies at the time. All of a sudden, with a huge dollop of hindsight, they criticise what they used to applaud. 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]Her ownership ideal belongs in the past, it won''t bring the club success now or in the future.[/quote]Two promotions to the Prem and four seasons there in the last eight years suggests otherwise...