Two Days Before The AGM Who Would Have Guessed It ?

[City 2nd 191]

Diane wrote the following post at 2017-11-28 8:53 PM:

Micks in a no win situation here isn''t he, he''s been asked several times over the past week or so on twitter ''''where''s the money gone '''' so he''s now explained that in great detail. He''s also had to hear fans accusing Delia of taking money out of the club, so has corrected that too, because we know that''s just not true.

Not quite sure what he''s done wrong and no idea why you Lessingham think the board have asked him to write this article, which again just isn''t true.

Looking forward to meeting some of you at the AGM and hearing what you have to say.

How do you know they didn’t ask him to write it?? Amazing how it suddenly appears two days before the AGM. Why wasn’t it written and published last week, or last month! I think most know the answer to that one. Another minion doing the owners bidding!

[Mello Yello 2,303]

I''m surprised Mick Dennis hasn''t been invited to join the NCFC Board?.......

[Jim Smith 2,339]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/watford-chief-scott-duxbury-warns-tottenham-and-chelsea-richarlison-and-co-arent-for-sale-a3703986.html%3famp

Read the final section of this interview and compare and contrast with the pathetic decision making/strategy employed by (or rather totally absent from) our board and club who now have the begging bowl out to fund refurbs to the training ground.

[CANARYKING 644]

I hope someone has the balls to stand up and ask how much longer we have to put up the sud standard football we’re seeing. They have to be made aware that if this continues next season’s ST’s will be so low that they’ll be no club to be in charge of.

[CANARYKING 644]

Sub standard or crap in other words

[Nuff Said 5,178]

Just skipped to the last two paragraphs Jim, and they could equally apply to our club.

[Lessingham Canary 99]

@Diane

Not quite sure what he''s done wrong and no idea why you Lessingham think the board have asked him to write this article, which again just isn''t true.

Just happens that i think the timing of his article is either propaganda from the club (Joe Ferrari ? ) or Mr Dennis writing this of his own back as an attempt to smooth the way, for a quiet AGM, if the latter an own goal with his choice of words, "most fans wanted them to take a punt, so they did" if that was true we would have reasons to be concerned over the ownership of our club imo.

[Old Shuck 188]

Fans are "accusing" Delia et al of taking money out of the club?But isn''t this exactly what any new investor would be looking to do if he/she invested in the club (ie) get a return on their money? Or do we want an investor that puts in tens of millions of quid but takes absolutely nothing out whatsoever for however long he/she is here and eventually moves on after ''x'' years having given the club a good proportion of their fortune.Because that isn''t an investor, thats a sugar daddy. So are we looking for one of them?Doesn''t FFP mean that clubs can only spend what they earn-or E5 Million more than they earn per assessment period according to UEFA com. Reading that, it appears that becoming self funding isn''t a ''thing'' that the club are obsessed with doing but pretty much what UEFA/FIFA are expecting every club to do as standard?

[nutty nigel 7,644]

[quote user="City 2nd"]nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2017-11-28 5:58 PM:

But then is it just luck that we''ve had 4 recent seasons in the PL and many clubs like Derby haven''t?

Flippin’ eck NN you sound like that lot from down the road who always harp on about past success. It’s the here and now that matters, and that doesn’t look good at all! Yes, luck does come into it, and just maybe Lady Luck has pulled our plug as well.[/quote]

I think you may have a point comparing me to the binners if I was banging on about what happened under Chase. And even that is more recent than binner history. However if recent history isn''t relevant then we may as well take a leaf out of your book and pontificate about what may happen in the future while putting the past down to good and bad luck.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Not sure there is anyone accusing them of "taking money out of the club" apart from that one bloke who keeps calling up Canary Call. I think what he means is "taking their money back out of the club" as it''s a reference to them taking back repayment of a loan. I think the timing of them accepting that repayment is perhaps a little disappointing but it cannot be denied it was their money.

I suppose there may also be an argument that they are costing a club a bit of money if all their match tickets/hospitality/travel etc for them and their entourage goes on expenses. I have no idea if it does but that would be a modest cost to the club in the context of the overall figures.

More pertinent I suppose is that they are no longer putting anything in and haven''t done for quite some time and the model we are moving to is geared to that both with the clubbjndervthen and the nephew. That I suspect is quite a rare position amongst clubs in the championship or above and the obvious question is can we remain competitive with owners who put no money into the club.

[king canary 7,679]

If the owners aren''t willing to put money in, they can''t really ask any more of the fans. So to have it ''suggested'' that fans fund Colney upgrades sticks in the craw a touch, especially when we pay some of the highest ticket prices in the division.

[TIL 1010 4,798]

Not forgetting of course KC that many fans also make a voluntary £19 Academy donation when paying for their season ticket.

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

[quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="TIL 1010"]http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2017/11/27/nobody-can-claim-our-board-put-prudence-before-ambition-they-took-a-punt-thats-why-we-are-where-we-are/Mick Dennis pops up with an article which is contains many statistics we already knew but in my book slants it towards not being the Boards fault. They were only doing the fans bidding apparently with regard to splashing the cash in a bid to stay up which obviously now can be seen as somewhat reckless and we end up where we are now.[/quote]

I can''t be bothered to read the Dennis article and so I am only going on the responses to it on here.

The point is there is a core of 3 board members who have been in situ for 21 years and between them have consistently repeated the same mistakes over the whole period of their tenure.

Two of them are up for re-election tomorrow night.

The problems that have beset NCFC over these 21 years have far more to do with poor decision-making, lack of football nous and lack of real scrutiny over what goes on underneath board level. The Board does not properly hold its employees to account and too many times gives the impression of being in office but not in power.

You could never level that accusation against Mr Chase who was at his post by 7am each morning, ran the club from top to bottom and was duly rewarded by success on the pitch. He also always responded to correspondence immediately. The same cannot be said of the Suffolk Socialists. If you are going to rely on others to do your job for you then you inevitably leave yourself wide open to being let down.

People come here, get on the gravy train, don''t add much value, then leave the club skinter than it was before. Only McNasty added any real value to the club dragging it up from 23rd in League 1 to 11th in the EPL. He earned every penny of his bonuses. The same cannot be said of others on the payroll.

But he couldn''t work any more miracles without significant new money coming into the club. That should have been the time when the Suffolk Socialists stepped aside so that the bigger wallets could get the club to the next level. That is what AFC Bournemouth did. As soon as they cheated their way to the Premier League by breaking financial fair play rules, a new American benefactor arrived on the scene. The boy Mostyn had the nous to do the right thing at the right time.

By contrast, the Suffolk Socialists take too much time to do the right thing and so the opportunity is lost. They took 18 months to sack Worthy. They took months to sack Hughton and they took months to sack the boy Neil.

So, if the boy Dennis thinks it is ALL about what has been done with money he is wrong.

What is also required is at least half of one football brain cell to rub against another half of one football brain cell.[/quote]I am sure Big Vince would have wanted me to correct that...

[Indy 3,322]

That’s the issue for me KC, for years I & my good lady donated our £19 not to mention some additional donations over the years from my own company. For the current owners to be reluctant to see investment and have loans fully repaid and yet still not willing to put their money into the club which is now in need of being financed for th Colney upgrades, it’s this sort of thing made my mind up to become a casual supporter after all those years as a season ticket holder.

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Not sure there is anyone accusing them of "taking money out of the club" apart from that one bloke who keeps calling up Canary Call. I think what he means is "taking their money back out of the club" as it''s a reference to them taking back repayment of a loan. I think the timing of them accepting that repayment is perhaps a little disappointing but it cannot be denied it was their money.

I suppose there may also be an argument that they are costing a club a bit of money if all their match tickets/hospitality/travel etc for them and their entourage goes on expenses. I have no idea if it does but that would be a modest cost to the club in the context of the overall figures.

More pertinent I suppose is that they are no longer putting anything in and haven''t done for quite some time and the model we are moving to is geared to that both with the clubbjndervthen and the nephew. That I suspect is quite a rare position amongst clubs in the championship or above and the obvious question is can we remain competitive with owners who put no money into the club.[/quote]No, Jim, over the years there have been frequent accusations here of them taking money out of the club secretly. In effect of corporate theft. Nothing to do with the repayment of loans.

[City 2nd 191]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2017-11-28 11:06 PM:

City 2nd wrote:

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2017-11-28 5:58 PM: But then is it just luck that we''ve had 4 recent seasons in the PL and many clubs like Derby haven''t? Flippin’ eck NN you sound like that lot from down the road who always harp on about past success. It’s the here and now that matters, and that doesn’t look good at all! Yes, luck does come into it, and just maybe Lady Luck has pulled our plug as well.

I think you may have a point comparing me to the binners if I was banging on about what happened under Chase. And even that is more recent than binner history. However if recent history isn''t relevant then we may as well take a leaf out of your book and pontificate about what may happen in the future while putting the past down to good and bad luck.

Not saying recent history isn’t relevant NN. I enjoyed Wembley just as much as the rest, and those seasons under Lambert too. But they are just that now, a distant memory, history! But if history is anything to go by, the owners and management are making the same mistakes over and over!

[Highland Canary 76]

Suspect we shall witness much happy clapping. I for one shall miss the nonsense of McNally’s strategic wheel and the ‘Norwich DNA’ of playing attacking football. Those days are long gone. What a fiasco.

[Herman 9,836]

You couldn''t make it up. Jumpers for goalposts. Literally. Marvellous, isn''t it?

[nutty nigel 7,644]

So City2nd, are you saying that the owners and management are making the same mistakes over and over so that we''ll have another day at Wembley and a repeat of those seasons under Lambert?

[City 2nd 191]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2017-11-29 5:01 AM:

So City2nd, are you saying that the owners and management are making the same mistakes over and over so that we''ll have another day at Wembley and a repeat of those seasons under Lambert?

Oh I really really hope so! In reality, I don’t think the owners will bring us to that ever again, and certainly not in my lifetime! I really hope I am wrong too, but the type of football we are now playing, and I’ll be honest, in my opinion, it is as poor as I have seen over the last sixty years, and I’ll be honest again, my season ticket and those of my daughter didn’t get used Saturday, (no takers) and they won’t next home game either. The entertainment value at Carrow Road is zero, the atmosphere terrible, and whilst I have and will always be a city supporter I pay for my tickets to be entertained, and see goals and exciting football. For more years than I care to remember with the current regime, that has not always been the case, whether that’s down to good luck, bad luck or the influences of another remains to be seen.

[lake district canary 4,547]

What short memories some of you have.  The club was a basket case when Delia and MJW stepped in. We were relegated, had no money for players, and yet managed to improve - with good football - up to promotion in 2003.  A roller coaster in the PL 2004 - some good football there too, even with our lack of resources, especially towards the end of the season.   So we had a rough four or five years trying to rebuild on no money, but we did it and got back to the PL with three fantastic seasons on the trot - with some brilliant football to boot.  So we struggled with Hughton, but still managed to see some brilliant football - especially during Hughton''s first season with a run of ten games undefeated.  The football in Adam''s and Neil''s promotion season was often excellent. So we''ve had a couple of years in the doldrums, but hey, that''s football.

 

[king canary 7,679]

@LDC

Football is changing at this level though. Things are very different from when we went up under Lambert.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="king canary"]@LDC

Football is changing at this level though. Things are very different from when we went up under Lambert.[/quote]What Huddersfield did last season wasn''t that different from what we did under Lambert.

[lake district canary 4,547]

Fans are unhappy at the moment, but were they unhappy during our unbeaten spell?  We are struggling to find a balance at the moment - patience has to be the watch word.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

If we don’t go up this season, we’ll be back where we were 10 years ago - financially uncompetitive and with a poor quality squad. How on earth is that progress? Too many of you have no ambition and see us as “little old Norwich” - which is exactly how our owners probably see it too.

[FenwayFrank 2,469]

Every so often the no ambition and little old Norwich phrases are dragged out. If every club with ambition or that thought they belonged in the premiership actually achieved it then the prem would have about 50 teams in it. We’ve always been top end championship bottom end prem and that isn’t going to change. If anyone bangs on about how Swansea or Bournemouth then they are at their maximum level now but it certainly won’t last and they will have a down turn. It’s what happens with clubs like ours.

[king canary 7,679]

"We’ve always been top end championship bottom end prem and that isn’t going to change."

We''re working with a budget that looks more bottom end Championship as of next season, so I reckon it might change...

[lake district canary 4,547]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]If we don’t go up this season, we’ll be back where we were 10 years ago - financially uncompetitive and with a poor quality squad. How on earth is that progress? Too many of you have no ambition and see us as “little old Norwich” - which is exactly how our owners probably see it too.[/quote]The owners'' aim all along - imo - was to have a long term policy that re-creates something we had in the 70''s and 80''s which as supporters of a certain age they will remember as something of a marvel.  That successful time was built on continuity of personell - all from within the club. Stemmong from John Bond, Ken Brown through to Stringer and Walker.  That lasted 22 years and ended with the money running out because of the way money took over football building up to the advent of the PL under Sky. That wish for continuity was at the heart of trying Peter Grant as mananger - didn''t work, obviously. That wish was at the heart of getting Gunn, Deehan and Crook in - didn''t work, obviously.  That wish was even at the heart of getting Hughton in to rebuild the club - a job that proved beyond him.   Now we have the complete article - a new regime across the playing/coaching staff - a scheme that is supposed to have continuity built in. Will it work this time?  We will see, but to write it off at this stage and throw toys out of the pram would be just daft.  It needs time, it needs patience and it needs support.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Unfortunately its about the decisions you make when you are in a position of strength as well as the decisions you make when things are going wrong. We make the latter decisions too late and we don;t make the former types of decisions at all.

When we were up in the premier league we should have been making forward thinking decisions geared towards establishing ourselves at that level and indeed making the club sustainable. Thats what clubs like Watford, Stoke, Bournemouth and indeed Burnley have done. Yes they needed to be bankrolled to get there but once in the prem they have taken full advantage. We never did because we were always preparing for failure/relegation. Even Man City are now run "sustainably" in the sense that they are making a profit after a few years of being heavily subsidised. That club could now operate sustainably for a decent period of time even if their owners left them.

This ownership and this board have always been entirely reactive and usually reactive too late which is a bad combination and sees us where we are today. They have made 2 or 3 genuinely successful decisions in 20 years and one of those was because the owners stepped back and admitted they didn''t know what they were doing so brought in McNally who then made the other one.

[daly 511]

The club is not standing still as some post I personally think we are going backwards. Cannot really compare with Derby who are in a similar position to us regarding owners etc We have had the benefit of the millions from the parachute payments which sadly have come to an end. As for our youth policy at Colney that''s another story.