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firststeps

So... who's supporting the Junior Doctor strike?

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For the first time ever, all junior Doctors are walking out, neglecting the care of the pregnant, cancer patients and many many more.

Personally, I''m not! Times are changing, proffresions are working longer hours within a 7 day week. I think the Doctors striking and neglecting the health of patients that are paying for the NHS is unacceptable.

Rant over.

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Surely if the general population went round striking Doctors, it would just create extra work for the health service, not a good idea.

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I have mixed views. Having had the misfortune to send a couple of spells in hospital recently I can see the long hours and hard work and strange shift patterns that they have to endure.

Let''s be honest in any other industry they would not have to put up with that irregularity.

It''s all part of the erosion of the NHS being, stretched to the limit due to lack of investment.

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You appear to be an expert in health policy and economics so I will leave the rights and wrongs of this action to you.

Thanks for the list of conditions that doctors can help people with.

I can''t wait for your views on football.

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I don''t think a highly trained and educated profession are choosing this action lightly. Maybe the OP woud like to do their hours on their pay and then see if Jeremy *unt''s proposed changes to their contracts are fair or not.

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I support them 100%I spend the majority of my time working in engineering in hospitals.Sadly

both doctors and nurses are over worked and under paid. Frequently

working overtime,weekends,bank holidays,Xmas,not having breaks for

food/drink or even to pee! Missing valuable time with their famil
ies

because they care so much for yours. With all these cuts and pressures

coming from a government who have no idea, it is making it almost

impossible for doctors and nurses to give the high standard of care they

so desperately want to give their patients! Sadly if the Tories

continue with their ways then there will be no nhs,and people will

suddenly realise how great it was as health inequalities start to arise.

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wholeheartedly support it but hope it gets averted by that @Unt fellow seeing sense. Clearly his erroneous "weekend data" has led him to ignorantly and arrogantly being unwilling to retreat from the brink. Unless the cash strapped NHS is going to do the same to the contracts of porters/radiographers/lab workers etc etc, it''s not going to make any difference to patients anyway. He won''t be secretary of state for much longer as he has become about as popular there as Robert Chase was at NCFC!

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[quote user="firststeps"]For the first time ever, all junior Doctors are walking out, neglecting the care of the pregnant, cancer patients and many many more.

Personally, I''m not! Times are changing, proffresions are working longer hours within a 7 day week. I think the Doctors striking and neglecting the health of patients that are paying for the NHS is unacceptable.

Rant over.[/quote]I agree with this, I work an 84 hour week. I work weekends, bank holidays and Christmas for no extra pay. I know very few people who work the standard 40 hour week.And I''m pretty sure, when they chose their profession, they had a fair idea what they were letting themselves in for.Because of the nature of their work the public will always empathise with them, and if they have a legitimate claim for a pay rise, I support that, but people look at this too emotionally sometimes, and political parties, all too often, use the NHS to tug at voter''s heartstrings.

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As usual, everybody wants more from the NHS than they are willing or able to pay for in their taxes. Sympathy is easy, putting your hand in already empty pockets is a whole other matter.As for weekend work and unsocial hours, I can understand people not being too happy about it but perhaps they should have gone into something different because patients don''t just fall ill on week days between 9 and 5. I worked in industry for over 40 years and had to endure all kinds of awkward shift rotas and now almost everything is 24/7. If you are not prepared to do that then you have limited choices.The simplistic solution that every problem can be solved by chucking more money at it has already been tested to destruction. There is a debt crises lurking round the corner in case you hadn''t noticed.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="firststeps"]For the first time ever, all junior Doctors are walking out, neglecting the care of the pregnant, cancer patients and many many more.

Personally, I''m not! Times are changing, proffresions are working longer hours within a 7 day week. I think the Doctors striking and neglecting the health of patients that are paying for the NHS is unacceptable.

Rant over.[/quote]I agree with this, I work an 84 hour week. I work weekends, bank holidays and Christmas for no extra pay. I know very few people who work the standard 40 hour week.And I''m pretty sure, when they chose their profession, they had a fair idea what they were letting themselves in for.Because of the nature of their work the public will always empathise with them, and if they have a legitimate claim for a pay rise, I support that, but people look at this too emotionally sometimes, and political parties, all too often, use the NHS to tug at voter''s heartstrings.

[/quote]

When they chose their profession they weren''t having new contracts forced on them.

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[quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="morty"][quote user="firststeps"]For the first time ever, all junior Doctors are walking out, neglecting the care of the pregnant, cancer patients and many many more.

Personally, I''m not! Times are changing, proffresions are working longer hours within a 7 day week. I think the Doctors striking and neglecting the health of patients that are paying for the NHS is unacceptable.

Rant over.[/quote]I agree with this, I work an 84 hour week. I work weekends, bank holidays and Christmas for no extra pay. I know very few people who work the standard 40 hour week.And I''m pretty sure, when they chose their profession, they had a fair idea what they were letting themselves in for.Because of the nature of their work the public will always empathise with them, and if they have a legitimate claim for a pay rise, I support that, but people look at this too emotionally sometimes, and political parties, all too often, use the NHS to tug at voter''s heartstrings.

[/quote]

When they chose their profession they weren''t having new contracts forced on them.

[/quote]Sorry, but they aren''t immune to changes in the economy.I just got a new contract with a 10% pay cut, and a cut in contract days.Its life I''m afraid.

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It seems to me that the views of the profession are not being taken enough into account over this complex issue and that it should be a case of the Government adopting the policy of leave unwell alone.

If it''s broke, don''t fix it.

Doctor''s leaving the Service in droves will not help the NHS to thrive as we would all wish. This is of over-riding importance.

Jeremy Hunt seems a bit of an unsubtle, battle-axe and uncompromising of a centre forward to have been selected.

A Grant Holt more than a Denis Bergkamph (sp.)

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They''re not after a pay-rise. They''re just not putting up with a forced contract that effectively means more hours for less money.

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[quote user="Herman "]They''re not after a pay-rise. They''re just not putting up with a forced contract that effectively means more hours for less money. [/quote]Yup, sounds familiar.I didn''t have the choice of strike action though. They have an emotional leverage they can use.Ask any member of the armed forces about their "pay rises" over the last few years, which were below inflation, so actually a pay cut. Its pretty much across the board for public sector workers.

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Being self employed I struggle to have sympathy for people''s working conditions and contracts I''m afraid. The majority of us are all in this boat together

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Well if the armed forces got off their backsides and started a few wars then they''d deserve a pay-rise. As it is they sit around their barracks all day, scratching their nuts, so they get a ''pay-cut''. (Better put a great big one of these[;)])

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[quote user="Herman "]Well if the armed forces got off their backsides and started a few wars then they''d deserve a pay-rise. As it is they sit around their barracks all day, scratching their nuts, so they get a ''pay-cut''. (Better put a great big one of these[;)])

[/quote]Hopefully if Trump gets in, they will be more gainfully employed[;)]

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"They have an emotional leverage they can use."Good for them. Maybe if the government would stop trying to bulldozer their way through these situations then workers wouldn''t have to use these tricks.

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I

wonder how many pro-strike commentators have actually read the

entire contract and not just the abridged version put out by the union.

If they have, as I have done, they will see that the doctors are being

offered more money for less hours worked over fewer days but to include

more weekends. But the union (BMA) still thinks they are not being

offered enough money...this strike is NOT about patient safety, as they

disingenuously claim, but purely about greed.

You also have the situation where NHS workers are destroying the NHS by working overtime through

external agencies. Until this practice stops, which is motivated purely

by greed, they''ll get no sympathy from me!

Looking at some of today''s pics, there is a lady holding up a sign saying how wonderful she is, she might care to

see things from a patients view, rather than her own.  The Office of

National Statistics says that almost a quarter of families say their relatives were not given enough food or water in the last days of their lives. Some

13 per cent said their loved one was not given enough to eat, while 12

per cent said they were denied enough to drink. Up to a fifth of

hospital nurses and doctors treated patients with dignity and respect

only ''some of the time'' or ''never'', families report.  
The relatives of people who died in hospital rated their care as worse than any other place of death.

UP TO A FIFTH ONLY, WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER FOUR FIFTHS? 

I think I''d put that silly piece of paper in the bin, go back to work and start looking after patients properly.

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I work for the NHS (mental health) and how many of you would work extra hours at a flat rate?Overtime as such was taken off us in 2005 because we''re an easy target unlike the boys in blue and other emergency services.

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Strong stuff OR and I agree with you.

But, a big "but," are these reforms likely, or intended, to redress these glaring problems or is this all just another Conservative Government''s example of "cutting?"

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Strong stuff OR and I agree with you.

But, a big "but," are these reforms likely, or intended, to redress these glaring problems or is this all just another Conservative Government''s example of "cutting?"[/quote]Don''t ask me RB, I''m just putting some facts out there that are being ''conveniently'' overlooked or ignored.[;)]

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[quote user="Midlands Yellow"]I work for the NHS (mental health) and how many of you would work extra hours at a flat rate?Overtime as such was taken off us in 2005 because we''re an easy target unlike the boys in blue and other emergency services.[/quote]Yeah, I do.End of the day though, its up to you if you want to work extra hours, or not.

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For you that are criticising the OPs views, they are precisely that, my views.

And I am well placed to have a view, I work for the public sector and my pay, working conditions and pension have all been sacrificed by this government.

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[quote user="firststeps"]For you that are criticising the OPs views, they are precisely that, my views.

And I am well placed to have a view, I work for the public sector and my pay, working conditions and pension have all been sacrificed by this government.[/quote]The point is though, the private sector is hurting too, it isn''t just the government. Everyone is going through this.

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[quote user="OldRobert"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]Strong stuff OR and I agree with you.

But, a big "but," are these reforms likely, or intended, to redress these glaring problems or is this all just another Conservative Government''s example of "cutting?"[/quote]Don''t ask me RB, I''m just putting some facts out there that are being ''conveniently'' overlooked or ignored.[;)][/quote]Here are some facts.[url]http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/nationalsurveyofbereavedpeoplevoices/england2015[/url]Although a massive organisation like the NHS will never be perfect, if you focus on the negative stats it will seem worse than it actually is.

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