If we lost the next four/five...

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Only in Lakey''s strange football world could a manager survive 10 straight losses ricardo. [/quote]Perhaps he''s never been at Carrow Rd when the crowd call time, TIL.Our board have never been quick on the draw but they know you can''t back a loser for very long. They were patient with Hughton and even Worthy was given every chance but all things come to a natural end. Once it becomes Christians v Lions there is only one winner.Hanging the bloke out to dry is a cruel way to end any managers tenure but better quick than slow.Hopefully wins against Villa and West Ham will make the whole question academic.[/quote]

I was at the 1-7, Ricardo, must be the most dramatic turn of events ever.  If AN is removed this season, whtever happens, I think I would lose interest in following football altogether.  The PL isn''t a great place to be if you are a club with limited resources and unless clubs and fans get out of  this throw away the manager culture, there will never be any real sustainable growth - only manager after manager after manager after.......you get the picture.   Clubs imo have to be strong and not give in to crowd pressure - however strong it gets.   What we need - imo - is to stick with a regime long enough to create a dynasty that will give sustained growth.  That means sticking with a person through relegation - and if players ever stop playing for the managers, chuck the players away and get some in that will play.AN represents a successful young manager with all the attributes to be a great manager.  He has a tough job this season - but chucking him away because things get tough is the easy option.  Like you say, hopefully the situation won''t arise because we will pick up results, but if we were relegated and we had got rid of AN, who would be the best candidate to take us back up again..............answer - AN.   Giving up on him would be the single most foolish thing to do for our club.

[daly 501]

Hardly say HARD Liverpool were one of the worst teams to come to CR this seasson

[Mr Jenkins 0]

That''s very silly LDC, if we continue to lose game after game he will be gone, even the most devoted AN supporter, of which I am one, can see that.

You really do live in a storage world.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]That''s very silly LDC, if we continue to lose game after game he will be gone, even the most devoted AN supporter, of which I am one, can see that.

You really do live in a storage world.[/quote]

It''s ok, I''ll get back in my box......

[Mr Jenkins 0]

No need for that but surely you can''t expect the crowd and the board to stick with the manager if we go on an extended losing streak.

[Jacko 0]

It''s a totally unanswerable question.

Depends entirely on the circumstances, the nature of the performances, our relative position in the table and who is available/willing to do the job at that given time. That will determine the mood around the place etc.

I honestly can''t see us losing 10 games in a row under Alex Neil in any event, so it''s all totally redundant anyway.

[Essjayess 307]

There are always those who want any manager sacked even after 3 or 4 losses, if as the topic asks, if we lost the next 4 or 5, of course more fans would shout for Alexs head. But all of  us? not a chance. I would still have Alex as manager. Its so typical short sighted, looking at the now or just the last few weeks if this scenario did happen. There comes a time when a clubs board have to keep faith with a manager, i believe for City we have the right manager. staying up or getting relegated is a short 1 term happening, sacking managers every time City change a division would mean us never ever having  any hope of stability. The change in the club since Alex has took over has been huge, in all honesty its just not on the pitch, where he inherited a Hughton / Adams  squad, but in other areas like scouting, opening purse strings, etc etc.If everybody is properly realistic, to think NCFC could start to become a stable EPL side from Alexs 1st season in the Prem, then thats deluding the realitys of our club. Alex has to change a whole squad before he calls it his own, if anyone thinks that can happen in 1 or 2 windows thats nuts. In his 1st window  with the club last summer, he encounted many shortcomings within the existing scouting regime, i suggest behind the scenes he told the board what the failings were and they have reacted, the January window actually surprised me how positively things had changed.I honestly believe the board are sticking behind this guy, yes hes learning, yes he will make mistakes, but he will ultimately find his niche  and become a fabulous manager here, but it will take 2 or 3 more seasons even yet. A relegation this season means more hard work for Alex and the club. But staying up pretty much means the same, still much hard work ahead. So, do we stick with our Sir Alex as Man Utd did, or do you lot shout him out and quite possibly end up with another Hughtonesque or Adamsesque type manager? Stick or Twist?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Only in Lakey''s strange football world could a manager survive 10 straight losses ricardo. [/quote]Perhaps he''s never been at Carrow Rd when the crowd call time, TIL.Our board have never been quick on the draw but they know you can''t back a loser for very long. They were patient with Hughton and even Worthy was given every chance but all things come to a natural end. Once it becomes Christians v Lions there is only one winner.Hanging the bloke out to dry is a cruel way to end any managers tenure but better quick than slow.Hopefully wins against Villa and West Ham will make the whole question academic.[/quote]

I was at the 1-7, Ricardo, must be the most dramatic turn of events ever.  If AN is removed this season, whtever happens, I think I would lose interest in following football altogether.  The PL isn''t a great place to be if you are a club with limited resources and unless clubs and fans get out of  this throw away the manager culture, there will never be any real sustainable growth - only manager after manager after manager after.......you get the picture.   Clubs imo have to be strong and not give in to crowd pressure - however strong it gets.   What we need - imo - is to stick with a regime long enough to create a dynasty that will give sustained growth.  That means sticking with a person through relegation - and if players ever stop playing for the managers, chuck the players away and get some in that will play.AN represents a successful young manager with all the attributes to be a great manager.  He has a tough job this season - but chucking him away because things get tough is the easy option.  Like you say, hopefully the situation won''t arise because we will pick up results, but if we were relegated and we had got rid of AN, who would be the best candidate to take us back up again..............answer - AN.   Giving up on him would be the single most foolish thing to do for our club.

[/quote]If he losses game after game then he is no longer a successful manager, regardless of what he achieved last year. If for example after 10 straight defeats he loses the crowd do you really expect the Board to say, "Oh well, that''s us relegated and £60 million quid down the Swanee but we intend to go quietly and hope for another go next year"? There''s no chance of that IMO. He would have to go or there would be riots at CR. McNally wouldn''t let it go that far. Just how many defeats would it need for you to agree that enough is enough?Smudger would be jumping up and down on MWJ''s Woodbines.The very least that AN needs to do is prolong the fight to the end. Success or even a narrow failure might be enough to keep him in the job but continued abject performances can only have one outcome.

[Essjayess 307]

Actually ricardo, if they succumbed to the crowds rantings and sacked him, likely scenario is  deja vu as with Hughton, us left with 5 or 6 games left and a board stuck with finding yet another manager,  or they could keep him on, sack him at end season, but  same result anyway, relegation, so sacking him would not change the fact that theyd be  missing out on revenue, with the possiblity of the next manager  dragging the club down further. Its a further gamble,  its more unstability, and imo, solves nothing but prolong the same issues that NCFC have faced for years. I see changes for the positive happening within the club since Alex has been here, many of them off the pitch of course, but theres not a manager in the world that could  keep us in the Prem. much longer than 1 season without there being change throughout the club, changes i can see  happening now with AN here. hes the right manager in the right place, and if the board persist with him, also at the right time.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

I would be happy to retain AN as manager in the Championship while he still has the support of the players. The board will know when the dressing room has gone even if the fans aren''t sure, and I think that''s as much of a factor as the fans, if not more so as they know that unhappy and/or short-termist fans tend to be the most vocal ''outers''.Even the persistent individual errors I can stomach in the grand scheme of things, but something that''s often allied to dressing-room harmony is leadership on the pitch. The absence of a natural captain-as-leader on the pitch is alarming - even the other strugglers have one (Coloccini, Cattermole, Richards, Williams). I don''t see that one player who drags everyone else up by their lapels and acts as an on-pitch replica of Neil''s fire and passion. If the players don''t appear unified, the fans will turn much more readily.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

If AN was in charge of Newcastle then they would IMO have significantly more points. If big Sam was in charge of Norwich we would have significantly more points IMO. AN is not the wonder manager that many build him up to be but he has many attributes which will guarantee him a future in the game. In the immediate future he is not going to be poached like Lambert and if he lost his job he would probably be looking at championship or Scotland. He is now on a steep learning curve where for the first time in his short managerial career he is having to battle adversity. It is impossible to say how well he will develop from here, he could [ i hope for our sake] pull us up from the brink but just as easily he could crash and burn us

I feel he will stay the season regardless of relegation BUT next season he may find himself with his P45 if we do not get a half decent start in whichever league we are in

[Jacko 0]

I sometimes have to remind myself reading this board that Wembley was only 255 days and 24 league matches ago.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Jacko"]I sometimes have to remind myself reading this board that Wembley was only 255 days and 24 league matches ago.[/quote]

Indeed, but we live in a results driven world and every manager has to be aware that there is only so much rope and the trap door is always ready to spring.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

I am not convinced a really bad set of results would prompt the crowd to turn against Neil. That tends to happen when the manager either never had or has lost the respect of the crowd. That was the case with Roeder, in part because of his personality.

It happened with Hughton because he served up the fatal combination of football that was boring and unsuccessful.

With Adams his inexperience told against him.

Neil has more credit in the bank than any of those and a sensibly pragmatic attitude would be that he would be as good as anyone at getting us back up.

That argument was never put forward for Roeder as far as I can remember, or particularly for Adams. There was a not unreasonable suggestion that Hughton, with his track record, might have been successful back in the Championship, but the prospect of another season of football as sedative outweighed that.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

this year we have had more players out of form and not playing to their maximum potential for a run of games so I find it hard to see why AN is thought so highly

championship yes 100 %

PL different story having said that he is 2 points above 3rd and that''s all that matters

but if he keeps us up I would still review he work this year so inexperienced for the premier league

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not convinced a really bad set of results would prompt the crowd to turn against Neil. [/quote]I''ve seen it happen to respected managers.Ron SaundersKen BrownJohn DeehanWorthy.Nobody can withstand a prolonged bad run and once the booing starts in earnest its all over.

[Clever Farke 64]

Personally, I hope we stick with Alex even if we go down (which I don''t think we will). Unfortunately the braying mob will have their way in the end, they always do,.

But Alex has shown his mettle on the big occasion before and they don''t come much bigger than Saturday. It''s not quite mission impossible yet.

[CANARYKING 638]

I wonder if he needs a bit of help, all our coaches are relatively inexperienced ( and Scottish ) . An old head who''s been round the block a few times.

[KoromaCrab 0]

Mike Phelan?

[YankeeCanary 0]

I understand the posters who generally moan at the first sign of trouble. They will rarely change. However, my comment is directed to some of the more pragmatic posters who now seem a tad over anxious to me, IMO, prematurely. Yes, it is about results and compared to the more comfortable feelings that were present before the past four defeats, we are now in a position that does raise the anxiety level and cause a thread like this to be generated.

We all see what we see ( even though it often differs from one observer to the next ). It''s what we don''t see or what we don''t know that is of interest to me. I''ll come back to that point shortly. I don''t know how many Premiership games each of you watch. I watch a lot. As the season progressed and, up until the middle of January, in my opinion there were more than a few teams that did not show the level of fight that I saw in the Norwich team, even when we did not get a good result or put in the best of our performances.. Now, if I''m correct in that assertion ( I said if ) let''s examine what happened during the past four defeats.

First of all on 31 minutes at a windswept Stoke....never an easy fixture, Gary O''Neil makes one of, if not the most, foolish tackles you will see in the Premiership this season. Despite going a goal down early in the second half Norwich fights back and tie the game, a situation that remained until three quarters of the game had been played. We subsequently lost. No surprise.

Then we go to Bournemouth. Compared to Bournemouth our energy level looked low. It should not be overlooked that Grabban, who had rejoined Bournemouth a few days earlier was expected to suit up but did not because he was suffering from an illness. When it was later reported that there was a bug in the Norwich camp, it would not have been too much of a stretch to believe Grabban was similarly affected and shared the news with his new employer, "Run them off the park, they''ll never keep up and make mistakes." Speculation. Of course, but not too far fetched.

Yes, we all saw what happened in the Liverpool match but I''ll move right past that to Spurs who, IMO, despite the fact they are not top of the table, have looked the most confident team in the division this season. They play good football, they usually appear fearless and, if they can keep their group together, may pull off the title for the first time since the 1960''s, if not this season then possibly next. It was no surprise that we lost to them. It was disappointing that we didn''t come out of the blocks with more aggressiveness, although we did improve in the second half.

So, coming back to the point I made earlier, if I''m correct in my belief that Norwich were not lacking in the fight department relative to a number of their peers until perhaps recently, what happened during that little more than two weeks on the calendar? Where did it go? I believe we may have been suffering illness throughout the squad and our collective energy levels were impacted. If that''s true we may well have suited up people who may not really have been fit to play. It may not have made a difference in some of the results ( although I believe it would have done ) but I would have expected a lot more grit and determination. 

I don''t go to the matches but, if I did, I can tell you I would not be prepared, as a fan, to give up the fight. I believe there is enough fight in this Norwich team for us to survive....and we''ll get it back and put some points on the board. I believe that because of what I have seen prior to the most recent and brief period.

  

[Van wink 2,994]

I heard the story that Brady was out sick on Tuesdqy night and that there was illness in the camp, I am now hearing that this outbreak goes back to the Bournemouth game, does any body actually know anything about this.

It''s a convenient excuse but could also offer something of an explanation about a poor period of form.

If this had been a significant issue I think we would have heard more about it to be honest, but I suppose it''s not something you want your opponents to know about.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not convinced a really bad set of results would prompt the crowd to turn against Neil. [/quote]I''ve seen it happen to respected managers.Ron SaundersKen BrownJohn DeehanWorthy.Nobody can withstand a prolonged bad run and once the booing starts in earnest its all over.[/quote]

My point is that Neil may well still have the respect of the crowd and be regarded as worth keeping'' as someone who will get better as a manager, even if we look like being relegated.

That wasn''t the case with Deehan (and in large part the crowd''s anger was being directed against Chase rather than him), who had no track record at all as a manager. He was only liked for what he had done as a player.

With Worthy is was plain he had been allowed to go on far too long AFTER we got relegated, so his credit had disappeared. Brown also was given time. Saunders? Possibly a more analogous situation but then there was the factor of a personality clash between him and South, and the factor (I suspect) of the latter knowing just who he wanted as the replacement.

Those four managers had all shot their bolt (or didn''t have a bolt to shoot in the first place). That doesn''t seem the case with Neil, even if some fans - this being the instant age - don''t recognise that. And even if many did I would not assume this board of directors would be craven enough to bow to the pressure.

eve

[ron obvious 1,502]

YC''s illness theory is intriguing. We tend to regard any sign of weakness, particularly one we can''t see a cause for, as an excuse, that players should ''man up'' or stop moaning about '' man ''flu'' or simply to stop being a wimp. We like our footballers heroically tough - I still love the idea that Stuart Pearce''s alleged first response to a broken leg was to try to ''run it off''.

A low level illness can well be one of the worst, as you can put the effort in to start with, but it can''t be maintained. Given that we seem to have a bit of a fitness problem anyway, it might not be obvious. I think Martin''s illness might be more of a problem than he lets on - his Liverpool backpass was that of a terminally knackered man, not just someone who''d made a bad decision. Tettey looked well off his usual energy levels on Saturday.

Footballers need to be in top condition- mentally as well as physically - to compete. There can be myriad reasons why they don''t perform in any particular game, but it''s far too simplistic to put it down to pure bone idleness.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

it might be true about the bug I myself have had bad cold / flu since Christmas so there is a bug that hangs around going round Norwich for sure

so I believe this

as for manager I am sure DM is watch closer than hughton''s time that was what most could see happening and didn''t give us a chance of staying up

this season we have the he beat man utd argument against the Newcastle result

what the true AN is I am not sure fantastic manger I doubt

championship manager yes 100 %

premiership I personally don''t think so

[ricardo 7,395]

This thread is about what is likely to happen should we lose the next five games, not finding excuses for losing the previous five.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

very true well lose I say 4 out of 5 he has to go we need someone to turn this around not plan for next season staying up this season is to important

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]very true well lose I say 4 out of 5 he has to go we need someone to turn this around not plan for next season staying up this season is to important[/quote]Regardless of AN''s past achievements, I can''t see the Board or the crowd sitting in quiet acceptance if we lose ten games on the trot.With three points on Saturday it hopefully becomes a mute point.

[morty 0]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]very true well lose I say 4 out of 5 he has to go we need someone to turn this around not plan for next season staying up this season is to important[/quote]Who do you suggest?

[ron obvious 1,502]

Ricardo, some of us are perhaps trying to find reasons, not excuses. Running around trying to find someone to blame does not necessarily further the cause.

And it is relevant, because if illness is (partly) the problem, then things may well improve over the next 5 games.

[ricardo 7,395]

The thread is about what would happen if we lose the next five which would make ten games in a row.

My opinion is that the reasons and excuses would largely be irrelevant. Can you really see no action being taken?