If we lost the next four/five...

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Purple Canary

"History indeed sometimes has lessons for the present, but not all situations are the same, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that this mooted scenario would inevitably mean Neil was sacked."

You won''t get a convincing argument for this sort of "what if", but if you are at he ground for games, which I presume you are, you will have already heard mumblings of discontent. Sad but true.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Indy"]

I''d stick with AN even if we lose the next 5, for me end of March and home games in April are going to define our season.[/quote]Fair enough, but I doubt McNally or the majority of the crowd will be as patient.[/quote]If David "Always good to hear from you, PurpleCanary!" McNally got impatient and wanted the trigger pulled he would still have to convince the board, including the new chairman, that he had a better alternative up his sleeve to the man he (I assume) singlehandedly recommended for the job just over a year ago.That could not only be an embarrassing ask bit also a tough one.History indeed sometimes has lessons for the present, but not all situations are the same, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that this mooted scenario would inevitably mean Neil was sacked.[/quote]

 

And not all defeats are the same as Yankee tried to reason (not excuse). The doom laden scenario is impossible to answer unless you already have an opinion formed. There are far too many variables involved.

 

 

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Indy"]

I''d stick with AN even if we lose the next 5, for me end of March and home games in April are going to define our season.[/quote]Fair enough, but I doubt McNally or the majority of the crowd will be as patient.[/quote]If David "Always good to hear from you, PurpleCanary!" McNally got impatient and wanted the trigger pulled he would still have to convince the board, including the new chairman, that he had a better alternative up his sleeve to the man he (I assume) singlehandedly recommended for the job just over a year ago.That could not only be an embarrassing ask bit also a tough one.History indeed sometimes has lessons for the present, but not all situations are the same, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that this mooted scenario would inevitably mean Neil was sacked.[/quote]

 

And not all defeats are the same as Yankee tried to reason (not excuse). The doom laden scenario is impossible to answer unless you already have an opinion formed. There are far too many variables involved.

 

 

[/quote]It''s quite simple really or are there no amount of consecutive defeats that would unseat AN?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Indy"]

I''d stick with AN even if we lose the next 5, for me end of March and home games in April are going to define our season.[/quote]Fair enough, but I doubt McNally or the majority of the crowd will be as patient.[/quote]If David "Always good to hear from you, PurpleCanary!" McNally got impatient and wanted the trigger pulled he would still have to convince the board, including the new chairman, that he had a better alternative up his sleeve to the man he (I assume) singlehandedly recommended for the job just over a year ago.That could not only be an embarrassing ask bit also a tough one.History indeed sometimes has lessons for the present, but not all situations are the same, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that this mooted scenario would inevitably mean Neil was sacked.[/quote]

 

And not all defeats are the same as Yankee tried to reason (not excuse). The doom laden scenario is impossible to answer unless you already have an opinion formed. There are far too many variables involved.

 

 

[/quote]It''s quite simple really or are there no amount of consecutive defeats that would unseat AN?[/quote]

 

That was not in the OP. Consider your lug cuffed and sit over there beside Yankee.

 

 

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

That was not in the OP. Consider your lug cuffed and sit over there beside Yankee.

 

 

[/quote]Ouch!I guess AN is fireproof this season if so many take that view.Lets hope it all remains academic.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Purple Canary

"History indeed sometimes has lessons for the present, but not all situations are the same, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that this mooted scenario would inevitably mean Neil was sacked."

You won''t get a convincing argument for this sort of "what if", but if you are at he ground for games, which I presume you are, you will have already heard mumblings of discontent. Sad but true.[/quote]No, I am very rarely at the ground. I accept there may well be mumblings - and in the near future perhaps much louder sounds - of discontent. But, leaving aside mathematics (ie, x number of defeats in a row), I do not believe that if future results made it look likely that we would be relegated that it would then also be inevitable that Neil would be sacked. To be sure of that one would need to imagine, as I said earlier, that McNally had a replacement up his sleeve, and/or that the board was craven enough to bow to fan pressure. I am far from sure of either of those because I do not see this situation as analagous to previous events. And in that I am factoring in the replacement of Bowkett by Balls.

[Indy 3,283]

Regardless of how many losses, it''s about who is available to our club to improve the results.......no point sacking Neil if all you can replace him with is Neil Wanock!

Not sure who we as a club could attract, it''s hard enough to get players here.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

That''s another one of those variables Indy.[Y]

 

 

[93vintage 16]

We need a bit more long-termism at Carrow Road, and this might require the board to put their foot down and resist fan pressure to sack the manager.Should we lose our next 4 or 5 games, then it might help if McNally came out publically and held his hands up over the shambles of the summer transfer window. This might ease some of the pressure that would be on Alex Neil.I''ve said before how the short term targets of promotion or avoidance of relegation, over and above improving our standard of football, might in fact be harming our long term chances of success.It seems as if the manager is afraid of acting for the long term good of the team, there''s little headroom to do the ''right'' things because they live with a gun pointed at their head, ready to be fired if they suffer a bad run of results. Corners are cut to the detriment of the team in an effort to achieve instant results, such that upon promotion our boys are ill-prepared for the jump in standard.Given the above, I would like to see the board get used to resisting ''negative'' fan pressure, and sticking with a manager, perhaps stating that they won''t change manager in the middle of a season. We need to target playing good skillful football and see where that takes us, giving the manager a bit of breathing room to achieve this aim.To those who believe that it''s not possible for Alex Neil to survive

a baying mob at Carrow Road, think of John Carver at Newcastle last

season. For better or worse they stuck with him in an equally if not

more hostile atmosphere until the end of the season. Like them or loathe them, the Newcastle board put their foot down and said no.If truth be told our problems lie in areas other the manager, ie the board. Too many businesses and other organisations blame the workers when they''re looking for a scapegoat to mask their own shortcomings. In my opinion sacking Alex Neil would be just such an example.Whatever happens, the whole club needs to sit down once the season ends to rethink where it''s going and how it''s going to get there.

[shefcanary 2,385]

Percy Positive here; just 6 (yes only six) wins from the next 14 and we are safe. What are the odds on that?

[Katie Borkins 1]

For me it is about the manner of the defeats as much as the defeats themselves.

If we fight, compete and play well as a team but we are beaten by better players in a better team, so be it.

If we look like a dispirited rabble (Roeder) or a timid side trying to park a leaky bus (Houghton) then it is time to move on.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="93vintage"]To those who believe that it''s not possible for Alex Neil to survive

a baying mob at Carrow Road, think of John Carver at Newcastle last

season. For better or worse they stuck with him in an equally if not

more hostile atmosphere until the end of the season. Like them or loathe them, the Newcastle board put their foot down and said no.[/quote]

This is kind of my point too. "The baying mob" as V93 puts it, have to be resisted by the board - and I don''t agree with bor that the nature of performances will affect things, because the crowd ultimately knows it can influence the board as they did under Hughton - and if you think you have power, you are more likely to try and use it.   But the crowd are not running the club and it is the responsility of the board to do what they think is right, regardless of what the crowd think. We are undoubtedly in a battle, as we were that season - and will the

crowd lose their patience if results continue as they are?  I hope not,

because we need them to be completely behind the team.   Back in 2004,

we were down and out, but I don''t remember the crowd turning - quite the

opposite - we were still a small club fighting the odds with small

resources  and the atmosphere was more nervous than agressive (especially the 1-0

against Birmingham) as we fought to survive.  So why should this season

be any different?  After all, we are still a club with possibly the

least resources available compared to other clubs.Alex Neil saved the board''s blushes last season - remember we were on a road to nowhere with Adams, once he had lost his way.  They were lucky to get Neil - it would be imo the most foolish thing to do to get rid of him, given what he has shown he can do.   They got the right man in - credit for that - but if they throw him away if results continue to go badly - it would imo ruin the good work that has been done and we would probably get relegated anyway - and with yet another manager.

[Gordon Bennett 780]

Agree with Darth Bor, if we went down fighting I see no benefit to sacking AN, he is a good young coach who could be here for years and I''d back us to come straight back up, and with his extra experience I think we would stay up next time. If however we were dreadful for the rest of the season and went down with a whimper his position would, unfortunately, probably become untenable.

The third scenario is that we stay up and only a fool would rule that out with so many points left to win.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Yes - that''s it for me, really.

If we go down fighting then there will be disappointment, but the Board will stick with their man, and I would be supportive of that decision too.

If we go down meekly and surrender games as we did with Houghton, the Board would presumably act based on performances and results, and those awful performances would also convert into anger and frustration in the stands which would in turn generate the "turning" which Ricardo refers to.

But the fighting and scrapping has to start today and in every single remaining game.  We can''t afford any more off-days, and we need to start winning those first half battles.

[ricardo 7,347]

If they don''t pull this one out of the fire CR will be ramping up the boo''s next week.Big 45 mins for Alex Neil''s future.

[Herman 9,714]

[quote user="ricardo"]If they don''t pull this one out of the fire CR will be ramping up the boo''s next week.Big 45 mins for Alex Neil''s future.[/quote]If the worst comes to the worst I don''t want him to go out the same way that Hughton, Worthy and Gunn went. He deserves better than that.

[City 2nd 191]

That''s one foot over the threshold!!

[Herman 9,714]

Yeah, probably right. It''s gonna take a feckin miracle. Now I''m properly depressed.

[Keith Scott 243]

Has to go after this.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

It appears we''ve gone from giving him the next four/five games, to wanting him out now...

[? 0]

I think the question that now has to be asked is, ''when do you think we will win again''? After today, hard to see!

[KoromaCrab 0]

Perhaps the formation is wrong and the one we are playing is not suiting the players we have

[Herman 9,714]

[quote user="Fuzzar"]It appears we''ve gone from giving him the next four/five games, to wanting him out now...[/quote]I think Bor''s posts on the previous page sum it up best.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Yes Herman, I read them. But this is still only the first of those performances.

[Herman 9,714]

I think the OP was being wildly optimistic to think fans could last up to 9 defeats in a row. We''ve had five spirit sapping losses already.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Today was a sorry surrender. This cannot happen again and if we lose to West Ham then the Board will need to decide whether Premier League survival is a prize worth gambling a change of manager on.

[ricardo 7,347]

Despite all the good will he has earned I just don''t see how he could survive many more games with this kind of form. I am sure the Board hope the results are good enough to keep him for next season even if we look like going down.If West Ham turns out to be a Worthy/Burnley performance McNally will be under tremendous pressure to do something. When CR turns nasty it''s not a pleasant place to be. The crowd will only take so much before the sentiment turns.

[93vintage 16]

The last relegation was almost entirely blamed on Hughton. Whilst the board weren''t seen as perfect back then, they''ll get more blame should we end up going down this season. And it''ll be a little bit harder to sack Alex Neil, especially given the farce that was the summer transfer window.But whatever happens, the whole club needs to take a long hard look at itself and re-analyse its strategy. We''re doing a lot of things right, but the board needs to identify and fix what''s not working.

[AmericanNorwichFan 0]

Why are you all blaming the board??? Lambert and his Blackburn team could''ve beaten that Villa team. Bad board or not, we had the players to beat them, we have the quality, but we don''t have the system, motivation, or leadership apparently. All those things can be influenced by the manager and he hasn''t done that.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

I blame the board because:

1) they are the constant in our pathetic attempts at prem survival

2) the summer window - it was as hapless as anything I have ever witnessed in football

3) they seem to aim for prem but no further and act like timid things whenever we get promoted - little old Norwich

4) they think bowkett can be replaced with balls

5) It just feels very stale at the top