So what's with Naismith

[Buh 0]

"All rise"

"MCNALLY DID IT!!!"

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I agree Coney. Geography is not an issue if the wages are attractive but i suspect this season we have the lowest wage ceiling in the premier league. Because of this, if we find ourselves in competition with any other premier league club for a player then the likelihood is that nine times out of ten we are going to lose out.

At the moment I feel the club is struggling transfer strategy wise because there is a divergence between the type of player we feel we need to be targeting and signing to move us on to "the next level" and the resources available to us (and which will always be available to us) with the club operating under its current ownership structure/model. Mcnally seems to be making offers or targeting players who are always going to have other options who will pay them considerably more. It is basically incredibly difficult for a club to survive in the premier league with no rich owners and operating a "no debt" model but if that''s the way you are going to play it then you need to be smarter in terms of player scouting and recruitment than it appears we currently are.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

something isn''t right in the way we do things

you hear another club interested in a player then the same day he has had his medical and signed for them ,

he takes us weeks / months and then they still don''t sign afobe now Naismith we have had 5 months to sort this transfer out

we heard how when we signed brady started at about 3.0 mil ! and went up in 500k''s

Bournemouth said it took a long time to sort out grabban transfer

I think other teams agents have now got wind of this here comes Norwich offering less than half what we want wasting everyones time trying to lowball us

now I understand we have to get the best deal but you are dealing in a tough cut thoat business people have not got time or patience to be messed about with

if teams want 8 mil they are not going to take 3.0 maybe 6.5 but not 3.0

we have to pay the going rate to stay up

I think we must have set a record for a promoted teams lowest net spend in the premiership up till now

will that change I hope so because if not with other teams spending around us it has made our job so much harder

[Tetteys Jig 830]

We''re at a stage now where we need quality not quantity though, so we should be prepared to break our wage ceiling if necessary. We have to get real and pay the going rate if we want to get anywhere this window.

[Buh 0]

If it''s a choice between contracts that have relegation clauses in them that protect the club from financial disaster for which there is more than enough precedence or forgoing that to sign Stephen Naismith then, sorry, happy clapper here is going to have to go for the first option. This isn''t football manager and you can''t press reset if you f&£@ it up.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

If Naismith is staying at Everton, it means that it isn''t due to Norwich being outbid, or anyone offering more wages - there were at least 2, most likely 3, Premier League clubs interested in signing him this window. He has turned them all down to stay at Everton.

If his wife is heavily pregnant this might not even be a footballing decision, but a practical one of not uprooting his family at an already hectic time.

Lots of people here saying ''Norwich are chasing unrealistic players'' but at the end of the day, no one here knows who Norwich are chasing. Naismith was realistic as he said he wanted to leave Everton but seems to have had a change of heart. All the crap you hear coming from the Italian press generally has zero truth behind it.

The reality of the January window is that selling clubs and players/agents want to do business in the last few days as fees and wages rise as clubs get desperate.

I''d also say many people have unrealistic ideas of what Norwich will achieve in a January window - notoriously the hardest to do business in as a vast number of players don''t want to move at this time of year, and a vast number of clubs don''t want to do business mid-season.

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

Jim Smith is ABSOLUTELY right on this.

Best post of 2016.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,751]

i would still come back to my earlier statement......we MUST have at least £20m to spend in this window??..........and as I said, if we can''t find anyone in the world of football that will improve our first XI with that, then our entire scouting/wage structure must come into question

[Paul Spector 0]

The people who I know that work in football tell me that the main reason we consistently struggle with transfers is that an increasing number of agents are refusing to do business with us as we are "difficult".

I''m told that Ricky Martin & David McNally are two of the least liked men in football.

We do seemingly struggle to get even the simplest of deals over the line.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

I don''t think Naismith''s coming here. Find it funny that this has stalled at the same moment as Swansea sell Shelvey to Newcastle - I will therefore bet that he''ll go to Swansea and replace Shelvey, he''s got a near guaranteed start there.

[Buh 0]

"MCNALLY DID IT!!!"

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I find it odd that people are still trying to knock the club about Afobe.  It''s clear we decided by the start of this window we didn''t want him.  There''s been no suggestion we made an offer or approach.  Whether that''s right or wrong, time will tell, although at the moment he doesn''t look like an upgrade on our current strikers.  But you can''t knock the club for failing to get a transfer over the line when they just decided not to buy the guy.

[Buh 0]

If agents think we are difficult to deal with then we must be in the wrong, eh?

I mean, football agents are infamously easy people to deal with. Notorious straight shooters those football agents.

By "hard to deal with" do we actually mean "not total mugs"?

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]The people who I know that work in football tell me that the main reason we consistently struggle with transfers is that an increasing number of agents are refusing to do business with us as we are "difficult". I''m told that Ricky Martin & David McNally are two of the least liked men in football. We do seemingly struggle to get even the simplest of deals over the line.[/quote]

 

Can you tell us which deals and what was simple about them and how we struggled?

 

 

[ec-p 90]

I, like many others, will be hugely disappointed if the deal for Naismith falls through. I will understand more, if he stays with Everton but it will be a kick in the teeth to see him sign for Swansea or anyone else.

[Tumbleweed 106]

If you want to play with the big boys you need to play by the big boys rules. And that means you pay the going rate and you amend your wage structure if necessary to pay the going wage rate. The PL is not about always getting a bargain, that''s league 1 or 2 for you, we are competing with some pretty serious clubs here.

Seems to me we must focus on one or two really high quality signings and pay the going rate for that quality. You wouldn''t stroll into the Merc showroom and offer what you would have paid for a Mondeo. IF (and I say IF because I have no idea what is actually going on) we are trying to just squeeze a few quid here and there it seems massively misguided and those in charge of recruitment need a mindset change.

It is possible that Naismith has decided to stay, but the talk from Everton is of a stalled deal. If he is staying then he can come out and say that, no big deal. But if it has stalled because we are nickel and diming and now others are getting in on the act then that is foolish behaviour on NCFC''s part.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

To be honest, if the rumour of a loan deal is true, I might prefer that. We can then address the issue properly in summer and we still get Naismith to boost our survival chances. There isn''t many other potential players I can think of I''d rather use our loan slot with really. The main one, Pritchard is still recovering from injury and spurs have him in their first team thoughts.

[King Klose 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]The people who I know that work in football tell me that the main reason we consistently struggle with transfers is that an increasing number of agents are refusing to do business with us as we are "difficult". I''m told that Ricky Martin & David McNally are two of the least liked men in football. We do seemingly struggle to get even the simplest of deals over the line.[/quote]

 

Can you tell us which deals and what was simple about them and how we struggled?

 

 

[/quote]

Of course he can''t. Because he''s talking complete nonsense. The "friends I know who work in football" is no more credible than the "cousins friends brother" he works in the canteen at Colney.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]If you want to play with the big boys you need to play by the big boys rules. And that means you pay the going rate and you amend your wage structure if necessary to pay the going wage rate. The PL is not about always getting a bargain, that''s league 1 or 2 for you, we are competing with some pretty serious clubs here.

Seems to me we must focus on one or two really high quality signings and pay the going rate for that quality. You wouldn''t stroll into the Merc showroom and offer what you would have paid for a Mondeo. IF (and I say IF because I have no idea what is actually going on) we are trying to just squeeze a few quid here and there it seems massively misguided and those in charge of recruitment need a mindset change.

It is possible that Naismith has decided to stay, but the talk from Everton is of a stalled deal. If he is staying then he can come out and say that, no big deal. But if it has stalled because we are nickel and diming and now others are getting in on the act then that is foolish behaviour on NCFC''s part.[/quote]^^^ Very much this.

[Tumbleweed 106]

The other point that I was going to make before clicking was that most of our squad have been bought from Champs or Champs type clubs. Naismith is coming from Everton, We very rarely buy a first line player from one of the big boys. It is very different from capturing a Howson from Leeds, a Hoolahan from Blackpool, a Redmond from Brum or even a Jarvis from West Ham. I just hope we haven''t been naïve enough to approach this one in the same way we may have approached others, the dynamics will be very different.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Tumbleweed"]If you want to play with the big boys you need to play by the big boys rules. And that means you pay the going rate and you amend your wage structure if necessary to pay the going wage rate. The PL is not about always getting a bargain, that''s league 1 or 2 for you, we are competing with some pretty serious clubs here.

Seems to me we must focus on one or two really high quality signings and pay the going rate for that quality. You wouldn''t stroll into the Merc showroom and offer what you would have paid for a Mondeo. IF (and I say IF because I have no idea what is actually going on) we are trying to just squeeze a few quid here and there it seems massively misguided and those in charge of recruitment need a mindset change.

It is possible that Naismith has decided to stay, but the talk from Everton is of a stalled deal. If he is staying then he can come out and say that, no big deal. But if it has stalled because we are nickel and diming and now others are getting in on the act then that is foolish behaviour on NCFC''s part.[/quote]^^^ Very much this.[/quote]There is a danger of two factors getting confused. I am convinced the board has made available enough transfer money to bring in at least a couple of quality signings that will improve the squad. And that we will be (perhaps grudgingly!) prepared to pay January (ie inflated) prices. Everything points to that.But breaking our wage structure to attract  players is altogether another matter, and has serious long-term consequences. That is far from a question of a few pounds here or there. I don''t know, but I doubt we are willing to do that. If not then we have to target players we can afford in terms of the transfer fee and who will accept our wages. That limits us.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Tumbleweed"]If you want to play with the big boys you need to play by the big boys rules. And that means you pay the going rate and you amend your wage structure if necessary to pay the going wage rate. The PL is not about always getting a bargain, that''s league 1 or 2 for you, we are competing with some pretty serious clubs here.

Seems to me we must focus on one or two really high quality signings and pay the going rate for that quality. You wouldn''t stroll into the Merc showroom and offer what you would have paid for a Mondeo. IF (and I say IF because I have no idea what is actually going on) we are trying to just squeeze a few quid here and there it seems massively misguided and those in charge of recruitment need a mindset change.

It is possible that Naismith has decided to stay, but the talk from Everton is of a stalled deal. If he is staying then he can come out and say that, no big deal. But if it has stalled because we are nickel and diming and now others are getting in on the act then that is foolish behaviour on NCFC''s part.[/quote]^^^ Very much this.[/quote]There is a danger of two factors getting confused. I am convinced the board has made available enough transfer money to bring in at least a couple of quality signings that will improve the squad. And that we will be (perhaps grudgingly!) prepared to pay January (ie inflated) prices. Everything points to that.But breaking our wage structure to attract  players is altogether another matter, and has serious long-term consequences. That is far from a question of a few pounds here or there. I don''t know, but I doubt we are willing to do that. If not then we have to target players we can afford in terms of the transfer fee and who will accept our wages. That limits us.[/quote]The price is the price. We can''t fold our arms and moan about the Premiership being too expensive, and plough a lone furrow against it. If we aren''t prepared to pay what it costs to stay up, then we have to accept the inevitable consequences.

[ZLF 274]

we can easily scrap our wage ceiling; however moving up from £40k does not mean that we will start paying villa like sums of £75k pw for the likes of adama traore.

we will still have a limit to what we can pay or value him at. i have no idea what naismith is on or wants - with swansea interest i suspect he may feel he is worth more; but do i really think he is worth north of say £50k pw to us? absolutely not; if he wants more than our talks will stall. paying over the odds remain unaffordable and unsettling on the remaining squad (along with costly with rumoured pay matching clauses in place)

Any new player will have a value to us worth paying; it is as easy for the player / agent to price themselves our of the deal as a club.

[ZLF 274]

there is a place for an outlier in wages - hux proved that in our promotion season;

but finding that combination of drive and ability to deliver weekly performances to make the comparative wage gap worthwhile is difficult, in mid table clubs perhaps on cabaye does that at the mo - a player below his level; naismith would not have that level of impact for us.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Why can''t we put the offer of sizable bonus for survival in then? That way, the poster has incentive and we don''t risk the finances if we go down.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]we can easily scrap our wage ceiling; however moving up from £40k does not mean that we will start paying villa like sums of £75k pw for the likes of adama traore.

we will still have a limit to what we can pay or value him at. i have no idea what naismith is on or wants - with swansea interest i suspect he may feel he is worth more; but do i really think he is worth north of say £50k pw to us? absolutely not; if he wants more than our talks will stall. paying over the odds remain unaffordable and unsettling on the remaining squad (along with costly with rumoured pay matching clauses in place)

Any new player will have a value to us worth paying; it is as easy for the player / agent to price themselves our of the deal as a club.[/quote]Good stuff[Y]But really if we can only afford to shop in Morrissons, why are we even looking in Waitrose? The board must have had some idea of what sort of wages Naismith is on, and would be prepared to move for surely?I''m all for showing ambition, and wanting to improve the squad, but being unrealistic really isn''t helping anything. People can moan on about other factors than money, but if you offer a player enough, he''ll be here like a shot.

[Tumbleweed 106]

I don''t see though why we need to scrap a wage structure.

Seems to me you have different tiers of player in the squad:

1. Folks like the Murphys who you bring through yourself

2. Players from lower league clubs stepping up

3. Players from your "peer group" maybe for some reason falling out of favour and looking for change

4. Players from abroad, dynamics will differ according to country

5. Potential game changers from wherever, possibly the Europe chasing top clubs.

We have traditionally relied on 1 to 3, and at times a smattering of 4. But Naismith I would put as a 5.

You wouldn''t pay the same wage to everyone, but you also need a scale for those at the bottom rung to move up if they perform. If we are genuinely interested in Naismith, we shouldn''t try and shoehorn him into a wage structure made for the others. Everyone has their value, its the same at many workplaces albeit less extreme. So that''s what I mean about changing the wage structure- we need one which can cope with the sort of quality we should be looking at. If our wage structure doesn''t accommodate all options, we should confine ourselves to different tiers of player.

[ZLF 274]

i suspect the shelvey deal has made the agent move from morrisons to sainsburys - naismith will never be a waitrose product.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]i suspect the shelvey deal has made the agent move from morrisons to sainsburys - naismith will never be a waitrose product.[/quote][:D]

[morty 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]i suspect the shelvey deal has made the agent move from morrisons to sainsburys - naismith will never be a waitrose product.[/quote]If Naismith moves elsewhere then it will just typify a lot of things about how we do business.