Long term manager

[lake district canary 4,531]

AN has more than earned our patience.  In fact I would go as far as to

say he has earned a lot more than that in terms of our loyalty to him

over the next few months.  However, the way it seems to work with the

pressures of modern football is that he will not have the time and space

to develop things unless the board is very strong and holds their nerve

completely and utterly.   If we are relegated this season, or are in

the bottom three going towards the end of the season, there could be a

clamour from the fans that could put an enormous pressure on the board

to act.  This would be a mistake. We are a yo yo club and always will be

until such time as the playing field is levelled on the financial front

- so keeping AN is paramount and would ensure some stablility in the

club.  If we go down the sacking route when things get tough, just

because the fans declare it has to be so - then we will never be

successful in the top league.  Our club needs a manager that stays for

several years to build a dynasty - and AN has the capability to do

that.  If Lambert had stayed, it could have been him that built

that dynasty - yes we might have been relegated that second season if he

had stayed, but we would have known that more likely than not he would

have got us up again from the championship.  If Hughton had been more successful with

his strikers and methods, it could have been him that would have been

that manager - because again, his appointment was supposed to be a long

term one - and he is proving again, as at Birmingham and Newcastle that

he too is a more than capable championship manager.  So if  the club

loses the plot and nerve and under pressure from the fans sacks AN if we

are in the bottom three - then they would be fools. AN should be given a

long term contract and allowed to stick with it. He has earned it and

proved he can get a team out of the championship and no pressure from

unrealistic and over-expectant fans should alter that.  We are on paper

with our resources a bottom three club.  We all hope that we can buck

that reality and punch above our weight to stay in the division and even

get much higher - but realistically if we are down near the bottom of

the table most of the season, crying about it and blaming the manager or

the board or anyone else is not going to help our club.  We are what we

are and while we can hope to build a club that is established in the

top flight, we should also accept the reality of things too - without

getting to down on the powers that be.  With present resources, we need a manager who can get us out of the championship, as much as we need a manager who can keep us in the premiership.In time, AN could be the

best manager we have had for years.  He has proved elsewhere he will be

loyal, if given the chance - and he has earned it with his achievement

last season. I do hope there is no clamour for his removal this season,

because that would be madness in the extreme.  So  should we not just enjoy the ride, whatever happens - because we are getting what most

of us want - attacking footaball and a manager we can surely all of us

respect - and we have a manger who if we get relegated, can bring us back up again. We need to be loyal to this man whatever happens this season. He is not Lambert who always looked likely to move on if he got a better offer. He is not Hughton who didn''t give the fans the football they wanted. He is the man who will safeguard our long term future - if we let him.  

[Van wink 2,994]

He will be judged on his results, no more no less.

You can''t have a strategy based on a long term vision and ignore what happens day to day.

[Wiz 0]

We need to shot of AN pronto, he''s clearly out of his depth now.

[Herman 9,764]

Is it one step too far, too fast for Alex? From the SPL to the Champs is a large step, but one where he learned quickly and got the job done. But the Prem is an enormous step for someone so young and inexperienced. It''s too early for stupid, childish knee-jerk reactions but we will know by before Christmas whether we need to stick or bust. Can the fans last till then?

[Earl of the Carra 0]

With the finances involved in the premier league short term considerations are paramount

I am afraid he will be gone before the end of the season as sure as night follows day

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Wiz"]We need to shot of AN pronto, he''s clearly out of his depth now.[/quote]Predictable as ever hey Wiz ?

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="Vanwink"]He will be judged on his results, no more no less.

You can''t have a strategy based on a long term vision and ignore what happens day to day.[/quote]Well, actually you CAN as long as what happens day to day is consistent with your long term vision. But you can''t if you let your club be run by the fans, because the majority are incapable of taking the longer term view.

[Indy 3,300]

Well we''ll see if an experienced manager can turn around a poor side, Sunderland are the ones to watch.

Long term, not sure, knowing this board they will stick by him till four games to go and bring in Huckerby!

[unique 435]

Completely agree with you LDC.

No manager in the PL would be able to produce a resilient defence if they had to use Ruddy, Whittaker, Martin and Bassong.

AN hasn''t been at the club long enough to anticipate the deficiencies of these four in particular, despite their previous PL experience. Let''s not forget the majority of Norwich fans were seeing that as an advantage over Bournemouth and Watford from the start.

[Katie Borkins 1]

It''s a good OP.

For me though the fact remains - and recent history amply demonstrates - that in the modern era Norwich is not a club where managers build dynasties.  It either goes wrong and they leave, or it goes exceptionally well and they leave.

An exceptional and ambitious manager, who sees Norwich as the height of his ambition and doesn''t want a bigger gig, can be found on the shelf next to the hen''s teeth and the rocking horse manure.

I am sure McNally has a plan for when Alex Neil leaves, and the best we can hope is that Alex Neil leaves us in a much better place than he found us.  So far he is achieving that.

So while the OP was a good one, I think it is naive and unrealistic to expect him to be here in the long term as that''s not how football works.

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

He has shown in the time he''s already had that he is a talented, tough and reflective young manager. Even if we get relegated he should stay.

[JF 694]

The fans must stick with him whatever the outcome of the season, he needs time to learn and build something here. Had the board backed him and invested £15 million on that defence we wouldn''t be seeing these posts now, we''d be at least 6 points better off and sitting comfortably

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I agree Neil deserves our loyalty.

It may also be the case that we are a "bottom three club" in terms of financial stature but the fact is this season we have a team that is maybe two quality players in defence away from being much better than bottom three class. We also had the financial means to sign more players but did not/ failed to do so. Unforgivable if, as looks like it could be the case, it leads to failure this season or costs Neil his job. I will not be blaming Neil, the blame lays firmly elsewhere.

[city4eva 209]

I wanted hughton out so badly not long after he arrived.I feel just as strongly the AN should stay and be given the long term objective

[Guest]

Our summer transfer policy and the tight reign on finances are the problem not AN.

[Herman 9,764]

[quote user="JF"]The fans must stick with him whatever the outcome of the season, he needs time to learn and build something here. Had the board backed him and invested £15 million on that defence we wouldn''t be seeing these posts now, we''d be at least 6 points better off and sitting comfortably[/quote]For goodness sake. If a player doesn''t want to come there is nothing the board can do.The players of a high enough quality that would have  improved our defence would have cost £8 million upwards, in my opinion. Now these players are not very common and any that are on the market, have the pick of clubs to go to. Are they going to choose us or a more established, wealthier club where they''ll get a better wage?The more realistic defenders that would come to us wouldn''t be that much of an improvement of what we have.

[ruthers1 0]

FFS What a fickle bunch. AN needs our support but he also needs help, both he and Gary Holt have nothing to call on experience wise at that this level - dare I say they need a Mike Phelan type character in there with them - now isn''t that ironic?

They of course also need £20 million to spend on some quality in January. We can still stay in this league however and I predict we will.

[JF 694]

£8 million upwards is what Is needed to be spent in this league Herman and what we should have spent. We have the worst centre back pairing in the league, improvement wouldn''t have been hard to find, we just wouldn''t spend the money that was needed

[Baywing 0]

OH MY, OH MY....how fickle we really are !!

As the OP says we are a yo yo club we average a promotion or relegation every 3 seasons our longest stay in top flight football is 6 seasons in the old Div 1

Paul Merson summed it up brilliantly yesterday when asking ''what do Norwich expect'' yes we dare to dream, yes we want to win but the reality is we have had a great year....

Would anyone really swap the day out a Wembley ? On AUG 7TH I am sure a straw poll would have revealed 99% of city fans would have taken 17th this season.

For the first time in his spell at Norwich AN has lost consecutive matches (ok 2 became 3).....

Now I am not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread, he has a lot to learn and his inexperience has been shown up by 3 very experienced managers in our last 3 games.

Lets not get all hysterical just yet.....imho yesterday we lacked confidence, Alex places a lot of emphasis on the first goal and when it went against us it was as if the mind set was well thats that then we are beaten again.

Its a learning curve and it will take time for the guy to adapt and find a balance between strong defence and nice attacking football.

The good thing is we now have a trip to Everton in the cup where the pressure is off, the perfect chance for Alex to give those players lacking in confidence a real boost.

Dont think wholesale changes are right for this one play the eleven he thinks is his best starting line up.

Dont go over the video''s of the last 3 defeats time and time again over analyzing.....

Stick on the trips to West Ham, Sunderland and Liverpool and take a look at what we were doing right.....

Playing with a freedom and attitude of belief !!

Come on City fans lets not get into booing the lads off the pitch after a game....yes we pay good money and yes its frustrating when we know we can and have done better

But this time last year we got dumped out of the same cup by Shrewsbury, ok we bounced back with an away win at Blackpool but that was quickly followed by a run of 5 games without a win !!

Keep the faith and enjoy it for what it is a foray into top flight English football !

[OldRobert 38]

If we are struggling in January, hiring good defenders is goingto be even more difficult than it was in the summer.  Herman is right, if a player doesn''t want to come here then it doesn''t matter if the price is right and the wages are right.As fans we must back AN to the hilt, but more importantly so must the Board.  Huge money is involved here, whether we like it or not, and it''s our only chance to get anywhere near ceasing to be a yo-yo club, giving us a better chance to compete transfer wise with similar clubs.  Miss out, and we will forever be one season up and one or two seasons down, or heaven help us 14 years of navel gazing like the numpties from down the A140.

[Lewis DW 11]

AN out is laughable...

Did Burnley feel like this with Dyche last season?

Good manager - championship players!

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="OldRobert"]If we are struggling in January, hiring good defenders is goingto be even more difficult than it was in the summer.  Herman is right, if a player doesn''t want to come here then it doesn''t matter if the price is right and the wages are right.As fans we must back AN to the hilt, but more importantly so must the Board.  Huge money is involved here, whether we like it or not, and it''s our only chance to get anywhere near ceasing to be a yo-yo club, giving us a better chance to compete transfer wise with similar clubs.  Miss out, and we will forever be one season up and one or two seasons down, or heaven help us 14 years of navel gazing like the numpties from down the A140.[/quote]

The board must be backing AN to the hilt.....why wouldn''t they?  Yes, huge money is involved - but we don''t have it and may not get it. You cannot in this day and age go out and spend millions you don''t have.  I am sure there is some money in there for transfers, there must be, but it won''t be anywhere near enough to spend our way out of problems.  The point is we have to accept that we may have a very hard job staying up this year and to start blaming people or trying to get them to spend more money than they have is not realistic.  We need to back the manager, the players - the board too - and that way, even though it may be a very difficult season and may even end up with relegation, we will keep our strength and togetherness for next season, whichever division we are in. But there is plenty of time to imorove this season - and AN is quality.

[JF 694]

So you''re saying that with our vast scouting network we couldn''t find a players better than Martin, Bassong and Bennett in our price range that wanted to come here? Pull the other one! across the uk and Europe there would have been hundreds better that would have jumped at the chance.

[93vintage 16]

It would have been advantageous for our manager to have been more experienced, but a bigger problem lies outside his control, at least to the extent that he''s not fully reponsible for recruitment.Under Lambert we bought quite a few younger players from the lower divisions upon promotion to the PL, but this stopped once he left. Not all were successful, but at least Ruddy, Martin, Howson and both Bennetts remain, ie three first team regulars and two squad players.The mantra was young and hungry, but underneath this it was about building for the future, getting value for money and a greater resale value. Today we have an aging team with few youngsters able to step up and little profit from transfers to invest in the team. The result after a few seasons is that we are left trying to scratch around to make up the numbers for this season.Replacing our manager with an experienced one might work. But the above is a structural problem that won''t be affected by changing manager. We''ve been buying too many short-term fixes, ie older 27+ year old players, for too long. This generally involves paying more in wages and fees than buying younger, less experienced players.Buying younger players is a strategy that our football board (ie McNally and Ricky Martin) should have been enforcing for the last year regardless of who was in charge. We need to start investing in the future now, otherwise we''ll just fall further behind.We need to stick with the above strategy regardless of any short term teething troubles it may cause, and avoid being swayed by the short term fear of failure to get promoted or getting relegated.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="ruthers1"]FFS What a fickle bunch. AN needs our support but he also needs help, both he and Gary Holt have nothing to call on experience wise at that this level - dare I say they need a Mike Phelan type character in there with them - now isn''t that ironic?

They of course also need £20 million to spend on some quality in January. We can still stay in this league however and I predict we will.[/quote]

Well said Mark, totally agree. 3 games, and we''ve not been pegged in our own half for 90 minutes either!. On reflection I can see, as many Pink''un posters have pointed out, the very obvious reason Alex didn''t take off a midfielder for another striker/attacker after what happened only last week... Hindsight is a beautiful thing!.

We all crave loyalty from our management and players constantly, but when the hand is on the other foot, after 3 games (and Newcastle really could have gone our way)... Fickle indeed. Alex Neil will go on to be a great manager, NO question - and I hope he gets that chance with us.

[Herman 9,764]

[quote user="JF"]£8 million upwards is what Is needed to be spent in this league Herman and what we should have spent. We have the worst centre back pairing in the league, improvement wouldn''t have been hard to find, we just wouldn''t spend the money that was needed[/quote]It''s not really that simplistic is it?! Availability. Price.Wages. Quality. It''s not simply being able to chuck millions around and expect players to come running at us.

[Earl of the Carra 0]

You could feel the crowd start to turn yesterday. The loudest boo at the end of the game since the Hughton era

The clock is ticking it''s now just a matter of time and thank God there is a ready made replacement in the wings

Not all is lost provided the board act quickly

[norfolkngood 1,087]

hard one to call really I would love a to give AN time to get his backroom team in place scouting network and to buy some younger players and really get a production line going

his own coaches that he trusts and to get the club the AN way from top to bottom

to change the time to his would take say 3 to 4 transfer windows but then you could call it his team and his team only

this might be the old fashioned way like moyes ( everton ) and wenger , fergie , clough etc built a club even pulis at stoke

they run / ran the club and got everything running as they wanted

only problem is the money side of things IF we went down and things were not going well the board would sack him but for the long term future of the club we have to stick by him get rid of that awful football board and let him learn and build as he goes

risky ? you bet but if he is as good as many think it will bare fruit

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="JF"]£8 million upwards is what Is needed to be spent in this league Herman and what we should have spent. We have the worst centre back pairing in the league, improvement wouldn''t have been hard to find, we just wouldn''t spend the money that was needed[/quote]It''s not really that simplistic is it?! Availability. Price.Wages. Quality. It''s not simply being able to chuck millions around and expect players to come running at us.[/quote]8 million plus??? we spent £9 million on the worst striker to have pulled on a city shirt in the last 20 years....we need to shop smarter. not spend more.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

agreed there Jason we have to be scouting and getting our business done quicker and smarter

if you think of the other clubs and the gems they find makes you wonder what our scouts do !