Russell Martin

[Canary Legend 0]

Whitaker and Martin are clearly hopelessly out of their depth at this level hopefully their dire performances yesterday will mean McNasty will finally act rather than trouser the money

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="Canary Legend"]Whitaker and Martin are clearly hopelessly out of their depth at this level hopefully their dire performances yesterday will mean McNasty will finally act rather than trouser the money[/quote]How long have we got to put up with these idiotic comments?Trouser the money? Look at our accounts, they are open to the public, every spare penny has gone on the playing squad. And most agreed that Whittaker did a decent job against one of the trickiest wingers in the league yesterday, guess you watched a different game to everyone else.

[Canary Legend 0]

Clearly you were not at the game yesterday Whitaker was nowhere to be seen for the Zaha goal his performance was embarrassing he was more interested in making sure his hair looked good rather than stopping. Zaha

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Canary Legend you may need to watch that goal again. The mistake was Brady being caught too far forward so Bassong had to come across and cover the full back. This meant Whittaker and Martin were left with 3 players. Something that no matter how good a player you are you will struggle to cover.

So much scapegoating already on here. Has been ridiculous. I thought we played well. We moved the ball nicely. Created some chances had three very major decisions not go our way. I agree there were some improvements that can be made defensively but this nonsense that players are not good enough is just people trying to get in with the I told you so carp already. What do some of you seriously expect?

[KoromaCrab 0]

Good point you make there Dead Canary -

Tool should be given the chance at LB and then push Brady to LM and keep the defence as it is and bring Wisdom on at half time for Whittaker.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

I am interested to see what Wisdom can do but think it will be a while before we get to see him. Alex has shown he is very loyal and likes a consistent back 5. Add to that Wisdom only played 45 minutes for us and another 45 for Liverpool in pre season, he maybe needs a little time to get up to speed. He looked decent in his cameo against Brentford though and Whittaker could have a real battle to keep his place in the side this season. Which has to be good for the team.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Martin played well, not a great game, but well never the less. The Delaney goal came about because the whole defence switched off, and the header from their left back, wasn''t meant to go to Delaney, he ''scuffed'' the header.

Whittaker played very well, and it looked like Pardew told Zaha to go onto Whittaker''s side of the pitch, later in the first half, because Whitts was having a field day, attacking, and needed to keep him back in position.

Zaha was doing well against Brady, so why change it?

I though Bradley was off the pace early on, a little bit sloppy and slow (in releasing the ball), but got better as the game went on., but Martin and Whitts played better than Johnson

[Ray 111]

I find it highly amusing when a poster calls those with a differing opinion to theirs ‘ignorants’ having also told those posters “to put yours stats where the sun don’t shine”. Physician, heal thyself.

I accept wholeheartedly that there will always be differences of opinion but attempt to put my points across in a manner which is respectful of others and with some form of objective evidence, which in this particular case contradicted the comments made, such as;

“I''ve had enough of his backwards/sideways passing and his inability to pass. Next.”

“HE DOESNT DO A LOT!”

I also understand that people will see what they expect to see and will find a way to negate any information which could prove them wrong. This is so because the human brain is hard wired to prove itself right.

This is superbly illustrated by the poster who having seen the match stats that showed RM played a far higher % of long balls than any other back four player and was accurate with 58% of those balls, still insists, “his passes are to people to the side of him or to a person just in front of him, I saw it yesterday when he won''t make a pass that opens the play, he''ll pass it to someone else so he doesn''t have the responsibility.” That is what his brain told him he saw, because that’s what the brain does to prove you right. I have often looked for something to firmly establish it isn’t where it should be, only to discover that when someone else (normally the Mrs) opens the drawer, there it is hiding on top of everything else!!

It’s these differences of opinion which make for enjoyable debate and discussion, however, words such as ‘ignorants’ and posts ended with words such as; fact, the end, next, etc, etc. are imo bullying tactics, and of course my opinion proves me right, to me.

In time we may replace a number of players, those that miss sitters, those that lose the ball, those that drop crosses, those that miss tackles, those that miss time headers, those that miss place passes, those that get themselves sent off unnecessarily, and the list goes on, all of our players do these things, as does every player in the world.

So, AN may well replace RM, as he may any player, and the replacements may improve the team, they may not of course, but let’s just let him get on with his job, I suspect he knows how to do it better than us?

If you still think AN is making errors of judgement, such as playing RM at CB (who we probably all agree does his utmost?) then why make RM the scapegoat, surely it should be AN?

[Six Pack 93]

Canary Legend wrote:

Clearly you were not at the game yesterday Whitaker was nowhere to be seen for the Zaha goal his performance was embarrassing he was more interested in making sure his hair looked good rather than stopping. Zaha

.......................................................................................................................

Canary Legend I think Brady was actually the player nowhere to be seen. You see Bassong came over to cover the right winger who crossed to 2 Palace players marked in the middle by Martin and Whitaker. The 3rd Palace player (Zaha) came in unmarked at the far post scored.

So if Brady was in position, we would have had 3 against 3 in the box. I''m not sure if there is a TV replay that we can look at to see clearer what happened.

[93vintage 16]

[quote user="ellis206"][quote user="Canary Legend"]Whitaker and Martin

are clearly hopelessly out of their depth at this level hopefully their

dire performances yesterday will mean McNasty will finally act rather

than trouser the money[/quote]How long have we got to put up with these idiotic comments?Trouser the money? Look at our accounts, they are open to the public, every spare penny has gone on the playing squad.[/quote]You seem to have forgotten the huge bonus McNasty received for achieving financial targets, received at a time that our income had just halved.The reason we don''t seem to have spent too much on upgrading some of the weaker members of the squad is probably that we''re having trouble moving some players on. Could it be that McNasty is reluctant to write off sums which would be owed due to fear of not achieving financial targets?I think Martin is useful to have in the squad, but it seems Alex Neil is still in the slow process of shuffling his pack. It might take a couple more windows to rebuild, but at the moment the squad seems to be near saturation point.

[firststeps 0]

I''m not looking for a scapegoat, I''m just saying what I see in front of me on the pitch. Martin was poor at the close of last season, he continued his poor form in pre season, and yesterday he didn''t organise his troops and was only able to muster up a mediocre performance for himself, I don''t remember Martin actually making a challenge yesterday, he continues to be happy to shadow the player he is marking, he knows as he is a slow, if he miss times a challenge he''ll never catch them. At the end of the day, a centre back should have tackle in there locker. We need better, a lot better.

[Ray 111]

firststeps,

Bobby Moore very rarely got his shorts dirty, he played a positional game, not saying RM is Bobby Moore but that is his style of play because as you say, if he misses a challenge he''ll never catch them, but then neither would Usain Bolt. If the forward is on the front foot and running toward goal and the defender goes for a challenge and misses, the defender is then starting from a standing (if he is lucky) position and probably has to turn to chase down a forward who by now is bearing down on the keeper. I agree a CB should have a tackle in his locker, to be used if needed and I believe RM has that. Also, he is probably playing to instructions, surely if a player continually went against the manager''s instructions he would be dropped, so again perhaps, given that I assume you agree RM gives his all and bleeds yellow and green, any fault you find should be with the manager, after all the buck stops there, re team selection and method and style of play.

Anyway, until such time as AN replaces/drops any of our players here''s hoping for a bit more luck with decisions than we had yesterday. I''m confident if we play as well as we did yesterday we will be fine, as they said on MOTD last night, we''ll play worse and win.

[Six Pack 93]

Ray wrote:

Well, here are some match stats;

He made more passes than any other member of the back four (51)

Of those passes, 12, approx 23.5% were long ball passes forward, a much higher % than any other member of the back four

Of those 7, 58.3% were accurate, again a far higher % than any other member of the back four.

Of course there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but these make quit impressive reading imo.

...........................................................................................................................

Ray, I agree with your stats.

Russell Martin and Whitaker for that matter are very good players going forward. Both are comfortable on the ball, scoring goals and contributing well on attack. In terms that part of his game Russell Martin is very much premiership standard.

If there is blame for goals conceded it is usually when there is a howler made by an individual. There were none yesterday.

You could blame Brady for the first, everyone asleep for the 2nd and the third was in injury time where we were chasing a goal, not concentrating on defending.

Be interesting to see a replay of the goals.

[pliff 4]

Is he not a defender and captain suppose to organise the defence some people cannot see beyond the end of their nose we need a shake up

[pliff 4]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]Canary Legend you may need to watch that goal again. The mistake was Brady being caught too far forward so Bassong had to come across and cover the full back. This meant Whittaker and Martin were left with 3 players. Something that no matter how good a player you are you will struggle to cover.

So much scapegoating already on here. Has been ridiculous. I thought we played well. We moved the ball nicely. Created some chances had three very major decisions not go our way. I agree there were some improvements that can be made defensively but this nonsense that players are not good enough is just people trying to get in with the I told you so carp already. What do some of you seriously expect?[/quote]

I expect the club to repay some of my loyalty by matching my ambition for our club at Wembley the cook spouted on about how the fans deserved the victory well how about paying us back with some serious spending so we can see our club in the Premier League for more than one season

[norfolkngood 1,087]

in my opinion ruddy could have done better for zaha''s goal 1st rule of goalkeeping is never get beaten at the near post !

I will admit I am not his biggest fan and I think he has declined as a keeper not the worst keeper but he used to be better than he is now ..............

[smooth 114]

Ruddy made some very good saves when unsighted.

Ridiculous, he did not deserve to be on a losing side.

Put a better defence in front and it helps him.

Russell Martin is not a great centre half, he is capable but we need better to start in out first 11.

Howson or mulumbu as captain? Russell Martin can be club captain.

[tom cavendish 0]

I have said in the past how every Premier League manager is going to target getting ball in from the Norwich left then attack the space around Martin.1st Palace goal - Brady wasn''t in the left-back position. Bassong had to cover but failed to stop the cross. Martin covered an area of the goal where no opposition players were going to be threatening. Whits was left on his own with 3 Palace players to defend against. Ruddy shouldn''t concede goals at his near post.2nd Palace goal - A Palace player was allowed to make a run completely unchallenged. Martin should have been more aware of where the opposition was and won the ball but was too slow and went to ground. Whits should have been helping. Ruddy shouldn''t concede goals at his near post.3rd Palace goal - There were 5 Norwich players wide on the Norwich left (like school football). Palace simply played the ball inside. Martin should have either been quickly in position to make a challenge or stayed to cover. He did neither and instead ran out too late and jumped with his back turned leaving a simple pass for a goal.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

What is your ambition for the club Pliff? How much money do you think we should be realistically spending on matching that ambition?

[Donkey dangler 0]

[quote user="KoromaCrab"]Who was supposed to be marking Delaney when he scored the 2nd for Palace?[/quote]

The man in the moon? No it was Russell Martin.

BTW he couldn''t intercept the ball crossing the goal in the air for the first goal either!

[Donkey dangler 0]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]And the scapegoating begins. Most certainly wasn''t Martins fault we lost today.[/quote]

You obviously didn''t see Martin marking fresh air for the first goal. Turner or Ryan Bennett would have intercepted the ball in the air as it came across the goal. Martin simply didn''t get to it. Although others must also take a share of the blame for the first goal.

As for the second goal nobody thought about the in rushing player but Martin was definitely at fault about not getting a challenge on the goal scorer.

Its observations not scapegoating. Some need to see the reality re Martin....its game after game after game.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Dear oh dear.

So you are having a go because Martin is too short?

You are also having a go at Martin because he didn''t stay with Delaney on the corner of the 6 yard box, anticipating a scuffed header from a much better, and more dangerous, position?

Dear oh dear

Why don''t you start a thread or three, about the other players who should share the blame for the first goal?

[Crabbycanary3 994]

As for your post Tom. wtf?

Ruddy shouldn''t conceded goals at his near post? That statement on it''s own, is very relevant. Certainly not though, when you are specifically talking about those two goals, situations, where the ball has changed sides very quickly, one from a scuffed header.

3rd goal, we were stretched, having just been looking for an equasliser, so ''normal'' defensive patterns were not fail safe.

What people are failing to grasp, is that you cannot cover 100% for every eventuality. Sometimes you have to go with the percentage ball, i.e look to cover the (probable) most dangerous position/player/area, depending on what (and how quickly) the opposition do with the ball. Scuffed headers? Yes. I''m sure they all trained for that.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Also Tom, how is the blame laid at Martin''s door, if the left side of our team, is going to get targeted, leaving Martin in trouble?

If they are not doing their job, and Martin is a weak link, jeez we are in trouble.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Let''s get a few things straight:-

1) Martin is the best ball playing defender at the club.

2) He is a good captain.

3) This silly notion that somehow Martin is dictating his self into the team. Do you think, in your wildest dreams, that a strong character such as Alex Neil would play a player he didn''t want to?

4) Martin wasn''t our only defender to make errors. Whittaker and Brady were out of position several times and let their man beat them easily. Bassong gave the ball away several times. For their second goal, our entire defence and midfield players were atrocious. Why is there never any criticism of anyone else?

5) The fact is, Russell Martin has been made the scapegoat, like many of our players in the past.

6) If Russell Martin has a good game will his detractors give him credit? Not on your nelly. Totally one sided criticism.

[Hairy Kenneth 0]

Totally agree-people have it in their heads that every time a goal is scored that it is Martins fault. Have a look at Brady on the 2nd goal-he jogs past the Palace goal scorer just before the header comes to him. Of course that must be Martins fault.

As for the third-Norwich were pressing for a third and were left short at the back. Martin thought the Palace player was going to shoot which is why he jumped, they were outnumbered and it was a simple pass to Cabaye to score.

Bassong also makes errors, but these are ignored by the Martin haters.

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

Nice statistic, I can pass the ball, drop off to the edge of my area to receive again. Make the same pass. Doesn''t contribute enough to his role, not commanding and doesn''t read the game that well, should never have changed from right back

[smooth 114]

Brady is a make shift left back, Whittaker played very well, in attack and defence, kept puncheon quiet... Wilfred was slightly different but Martin would not be able to keep up with him either.

Basso get read the game a few times very well and is still the stand out centre half.

You are only as strong as your weakest team member, our 2nd centre jphalf position is in need of a great improvement, nothing against Martin. We just need a better player in that position. We have as soon as we went up to the prem.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Spot on, Wes Hooly fan. All players have their strengths & weaknesses, all players make mistakes. None of them would be professional footballers, let alone Premier League ones, if individual fans'' pet hate figures were as dreadful as they think.

Likewise with football managers. In which department I believe we are incredibly well served at the moment. So I''ll trust his judgement over any of the ''experts'' on here - including me - every time.

[hogesar 9,672]

I thought, considering we''re talking about a game where collectively we conceded 3 goals, that RM had quite a good game.

He''s also our best outlet from defence. Which, considering we like to play it out from the back is quite important.