THAT Snodgrass penalty...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Thinking back to that penalty incident, sometimes im pretty flabbergasted it happened. A question we will never know the answer to is how influential those primordial moments were.

How on earth did that situation happen? Clearly RvW was the designated penalty taker. All sorts of things can be implied from Snodgrass'' behavior on that day. Did it reveal squad disharmony? Did it cause squad disharmony? The point has been made many times in the past that if RvW had taken that penalty and scored it, that he would have had 2 in 2 and that might have helped him on the way to a run, something of course we''ll never know.

But what were the reasons for Snoddy''s behaviour on that day? Was it sheer selfishness? Was it sheer ego? (''im better than you'') was it simple childishness (I won the penalty, im taking it)? Did he not respect RvW or his teammates in general? Did he not respect his managers decision?

Snodgrass'' behaviour on that day was embarrassing, but I wonder, now, with our retrospectacles on, what that whole incident may have shown us about the dynamics of the players and management. It just shouldnt happen, but it did, and we''ll never know how damaging it might have been.

So why did it happen? Answers on a postcard

[havemyhowsonit 0]

What''s done is done won''t change nothing

And the result may have ended in a draw which still wouldn''t have changed the end result

[Ray 111]

The only player who know who the designated penalty takers was on that day, was the designated penalty taker, who was a newbie. Says a great deal about the management imo.

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

There''s any number of crucial moments in a season - this was one of several: for example Bassong giving away the pen v Stoke, hitting the bar twice v WBA spring to mind.

You never know when they''ll happen which is why you have to be on the top of your game and get simple things like your penalty taker sorted. That pen was particularly stupid, and IMO led to RvW getting injured (frustrated challenge later in the game) - it was costly in any ways.

[Newton 0]

yes just think - £4M per goal instead of £8M - what a bargain

Goodbye wolf hope our paths do not cross in the future

As early as then Snoddy knew how crap he was

[Darth Catbeard The Old 0]

I just have a funny feeling Ricky would have weakly scuffed that straight at the keeper anyway. I don''t think our season hinged on that moment

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Darth Catbeard The Old"]I just have a funny feeling Ricky would have weakly scuffed that straight at the keeper anyway. I don''t think our season hinged on that moment[/quote]

Must be true then

[GJP 79]

Clearly just a shambles and while the season may not have hinged on that penalty miss alone it was probably an early insight in to what was to come.

 

Some of the players who came in last season didn''t and haven''t impressed some of the players who were here before. I''d say it''s been fairly obvious all season that RVW and Snodgrass don''t see eye to eye on the pitch.

 

And Snodgrass just wants to take everything. Which is a good and bad part of his game. Good because if he messes something up he won''t hide from trying again. Bad because sometimes you just got to know when to leave things to team mates - and he''s never been good at that.

 

Going back to the penalty itself, even if Snodgrass didn''t know RVW was the designated taker there is no way word shouldn''t have got to him from the dugout in the build up to it.

 

 

 

[Newton 0]

An example of Hoots poor organisational skills as early as August

It never got any better

[littleyellowbirdie 3,140]

I think it was a moment of selfishness by Snodgrass driven by the fact that he was frustrated with his own form at the time and simply wanted to get the ball in the back of the net to get things rolling again. Sadly he didn''t, which lost us a point, didn''t help him and didn''t help RvW build a bit of confidence either. It was a big mistake, but that''s life and he''s done a hell of a lot of good stuff for us as well. Let it go.

[Budapest Canary 154]

That incident clearly indicated the void in terms of leadership on the pitch after Holt''s departure. Snodgrass probably felt that he should have been made team captain. Bassong clearly wan''t the right choice, but that said, there did not seem to be any obvious candidate for the role.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,140]

Snodgrass was a good Captain at Leeds. Should have been the obvious choice on Holt''s departure.

[Budapest Canary 154]

Snoddy is (or seems to be) a lot weaker character than Holt,but arguably one of the better options. Although the penalty incident itself raises questions in this respect.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

I just cant understand one of two things. Either the level of disrespect from Snodgrass towards his teammates and his manager if the designated penalty taker was clearly known (and why Hughton let this insubordination pass, especially as it may have cost points) or, the level of disorganisation and lack of authority if noone knew who was on penalties and so duties were genuinely up for grabs, and again a lack of authority from the bench as to who should take it. The sight of the two of them squabbling and RvW (and probably hughton) being undermined on the pitch was embarrassing and spoke volumes about something. Just what exactly? I cant understand in a professional game how that happened

[Holtcantshoot 0]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Thinking back to that penalty incident, sometimes im pretty flabbergasted it happened. A question we will never know the answer to is how influential those primordial moments were.

How on earth did that situation happen? Clearly RvW was the designated penalty taker. All sorts of things can be implied from Snodgrass'' behavior on that day. Did it reveal squad disharmony? Did it cause squad disharmony? The point has been made many times in the past that if RvW had taken that penalty and scored it, that he would have had 2 in 2 and that might have helped him on the way to a run, something of course we''ll never know.

But what were the reasons for Snoddy''s behaviour on that day? Was it sheer selfishness? Was it sheer ego? (''im better than you'') was it simple childishness (I won the penalty, im taking it)? Did he not respect RvW or his teammates in general? Did he not respect his managers decision?

Snodgrass'' behaviour on that day was embarrassing, but I wonder, now, with our retrospectacles on, what that whole incident may have shown us about the dynamics of the players and management. It just shouldnt happen, but it did, and we''ll never know how damaging it might have been.

So why did it happen? Answers on a postcard[/quote]It was just as much RVW letting another player take the penalty instead of having the self-confidence and belief to take it himself. Could you have seen some of the great Premier League strikers like Shearer, Cole, Henry or Rooney actually let a winger come up and take the ball off them for a penalty? Of course not, most of them would have likely given him a black eye. The real issue here is that RVW was a coward who never stood up to be counted throughout the season and his inability to take on his responsibilities that the £8.6m price tag entailed was a major factor in his pathetic goal tally.Far more of an issue than Snodgrass actually wanting to try and make things happen for us.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"]Snodgrass was a good Captain at Leeds. Should have been the obvious choice on Holt''s departure.[/quote]

Wasn''t Snodgrass only captain for a short time at Leeds after Howson left for us?

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Thinking back to that penalty incident, sometimes im pretty flabbergasted it happened. A question we will never know the answer to is how influential those primordial moments were.

How on earth did that situation happen? Clearly RvW was the designated penalty taker. All sorts of things can be implied from Snodgrass'' behavior on that day. Did it reveal squad disharmony? Did it cause squad disharmony? The point has been made many times in the past that if RvW had taken that penalty and scored it, that he would have had 2 in 2 and that might have helped him on the way to a run, something of course we''ll never know.

But what were the reasons for Snoddy''s behaviour on that day? Was it sheer selfishness? Was it sheer ego? (''im better than you'') was it simple childishness (I won the penalty, im taking it)? Did he not respect RvW or his teammates in general? Did he not respect his managers decision?

Snodgrass'' behaviour on that day was embarrassing, but I wonder, now, with our retrospectacles on, what that whole incident may have shown us about the dynamics of the players and management. It just shouldnt happen, but it did, and we''ll never know how damaging it might have been.

So why did it happen? Answers on a postcard[/quote]It was just as much RVW letting another player take the penalty instead of having the self-confidence and belief to take it himself. Could you have seen some of the great Premier League strikers like Shearer, Cole, Henry or Rooney actually let a winger come up and take the ball off them for a penalty? Of course not, most of them would have likely given him a black eye. The real issue here is that RVW was a coward who never stood up to be counted throughout the season and his inability to take on his responsibilities that the £8.6m price tag entailed was a major factor in his pathetic goal tally.Far more of an issue than Snodgrass actually wanting to try and make things happen for us.[/quote]Wow, what a perverse way of looking at things. Would you rather RvW had punched him and got sent off?? There was disbelief on his face, he didn''t shy away from taking it either... just didn''t make the matter worse by belting a team mate who was being, and, on the pitch, usually is being, a massive egocentric coq.

[The Masked Raccoon 0]

That''s long gone. If that affected RVW and others, then they have big issues for the rest of their careers. If it had an outcome on our whole season, players mentally upset for the rest of the season shouldn''t have been in the squad. It''s one game, would have been dealt with.

I''d be more concerned with one on one chances where RVW shots went straight to the keeper than this penalty incident.  

[canarybubbles 2,199]

For me, spells out everything that is wrong with Snodgrass as a member of a team in a collective sport and is the reason I would jump for joy if it were announced that we had sold him.

We will never go back up as long as that egomaniac remains, thinking he has somehow taken over Holt''s role as the de facto leader of the squad. If he stays, I pray we get a strong manager who puts him in his place from the first moment. The weakness of Hughton and the selfishness of Snodgrass were a disastrous combination.

[ZLF 335]

I refuse to accept that at a professional football club that the players were not crystal clear as to who the nominated penalty taker was.  On the day it was clear that Snodgrass simply took over to the bemusement of fellow players.   It was like kids football,  I got fouled so I will take the pen..

 

In hindsight it is just one example amongst many of the arrogance of the player and the lack of respect he shows to most of his team mates and RvW in particular .

 

However we are where we are and need to focus on planning a successful season rather than continue with inquests

[Jacks Back 0]

I know it''s impossible to blame a whole season on one moment. But if i had to, this would be the moment which changed our season.

[Yellow Wal 315]

I was absolutely amazed after Hughton was sacked and Neil Adams took over that he still played Snodgrass on the right.

Not once that I can remember did Adams play on the left and not once did he play as an inverted winger, he always played as an orthodox winger who knew the importance of good supply and crosses to strikers.

I thought, and oh! how I was wrong, that Snodgrass would either be moved inside, moved to the left or dropped.

Why wasn''t he?

Well overnight Snodgrass forgot the loyalty Hughton had shown him and overnight he made a big point of supporting the new manager and the team.

As he had such a strong and large support at the club from a large proportion of supporters and came out and said ''all the right things'' it would have been almost impossible for Neil Adams to drop him.

Once again the great manipulator seemed to have succeeded.

I had hopes of Neil Adams changing the pitiful way that we had played but in the end it was just more of the same, with the same problems.

[Holtcantshoot 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Thinking back to that penalty incident, sometimes im pretty flabbergasted it happened. A question we will never know the answer to is how influential those primordial moments were.

How on earth did that situation happen? Clearly RvW was the designated penalty taker. All sorts of things can be implied from Snodgrass'' behavior on that day. Did it reveal squad disharmony? Did it cause squad disharmony? The point has been made many times in the past that if RvW had taken that penalty and scored it, that he would have had 2 in 2 and that might have helped him on the way to a run, something of course we''ll never know.

But what were the reasons for Snoddy''s behaviour on that day? Was it sheer selfishness? Was it sheer ego? (''im better than you'') was it simple childishness (I won the penalty, im taking it)? Did he not respect RvW or his teammates in general? Did he not respect his managers decision?

Snodgrass'' behaviour on that day was embarrassing, but I wonder, now, with our retrospectacles on, what that whole incident may have shown us about the dynamics of the players and management. It just shouldnt happen, but it did, and we''ll never know how damaging it might have been.

So why did it happen? Answers on a postcard[/quote]It was just as much RVW letting another player take the penalty instead of having the self-confidence and belief to take it himself. Could you have seen some of the great Premier League strikers like Shearer, Cole, Henry or Rooney actually let a winger come up and take the ball off them for a penalty? Of course not, most of them would have likely given him a black eye. The real issue here is that RVW was a coward who never stood up to be counted throughout the season and his inability to take on his responsibilities that the £8.6m price tag entailed was a major factor in his pathetic goal tally.Far more of an issue than Snodgrass actually wanting to try and make things happen for us.[/quote]Wow, what a perverse way of looking at things. Would you rather RvW had punched him and got sent off?? There was disbelief on his face, he didn''t shy away from taking it either... just didn''t make the matter worse by belting a team mate who was being, and, on the pitch, usually is being, a massive egocentric coq.[/quote]Clearly I''m not actually condoning RVW hitting Snodgrass am I? I''m unsure how you came to this conclusion in my previous statement. My premises and conclusions can be laid out as follows:Premise A: It was just as much RVW letting another player take the penalty instead

of having the self-confidence and belief to take it himself.Premise B: Could you have seen some of the great Premier League strikers like

Shearer, Cole, Henry or Rooney actually let a winger come up and take

the ball off them for a penalty? Of course not, most of them would have

likely given him a black eye.Conclusion: The real issue here is that RVW was a coward who never stood up to be

counted throughout the season and his inability to take on his

responsibilities that the £8.6m price tag entailed was a major factor in

his pathetic goal tally.Hopefully that makes more sense when broken down in this format. Just simply that he shouldn''t let other players just take the ball off him and take the penalty themselves. He just stood and watched it happen. Which depressingly describes about 95% of the goals we conceded this year as well.My point is we had a team of spineless disinterested individuals who would much rather cower in the corner and let others take the responsibility and potential blame than try and make things happen themselves.

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

The team captain should have managed that situation! (Bassong?)

Mind you, it was pretty horrendous that no-one knew what their job was that day.

[lake district canary 4,830]

Premise A: It was just as much RVW letting another player take the penalty instead

of having the self-confidence and belief to take it himself.

RVW had a look of dis-belief on his face. He just looked stunned that another player was doing what Snodgrass was doing. And to be fair, Snodgrass does rather give the impression that he is someone you wouldn''t want to argue with........

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I was absolutely amazed after Hughton was sacked and Neil Adams took over that he still played Snodgrass on the right.

Not once that I can remember did Adams play on the left and not once did he play as an inverted winger, he always played as an orthodox winger who knew the importance of good supply and crosses to strikers.

I thought, and oh! how I was wrong, that Snodgrass would either be moved inside, moved to the left or dropped.

Why wasn''t he?

Well overnight Snodgrass forgot the loyalty Hughton had shown him and overnight he made a big point of supporting the new manager and the team.

As he had such a strong and large support at the club from a large proportion of supporters and came out and said ''all the right things'' it would have been almost impossible for Neil Adams to drop him.

Once again the great manipulator seemed to have succeeded.

I had hopes of Neil Adams changing the pitiful way that we had played but in the end it was just more of the same, with the same problems.[/quote]

 

We know that''s what you think YW. But are you for real with this post? Are you now saying that Neil Adams was so weak that he blew his opportunity be bowing down to a single player? Destroying Snoody seems to have become such an obsession with you that Neil Adams'' integrity is acceptable collateral damage for you to carry on your ridiculous crusade. Why can''t you just accept that your unqualified opinion is the same as mine or other supporters and in this case that successive managers just don''t agree with you.

 

 

[Happy Clapper 0]

I think somebody has a bit of an obsession yellow!

But on the OP, Snoddy is a winner and a bit of a hot head, people like that can get carried away in games, it happens.

Not a defining moment of our season, far from it.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

[quote user="Dibble"]I think somebody has a bit of an obsession yellow! But on the OP, Snoddy is a winner and a bit of a hot head, people like that can get carried away in games, it happens. Not a defining moment of our season, far from it.[/quote]

 

So is the general concencus that this was just Snodgrass being a d*ck and that there is no more to it than that?

[KeelansGlove 0]

Looking back I think it sums up Snoddy perfectly.

If only he was half as good as he thinks he is.

Hope someone believes the hype enough to make a profit on him, really hope he is someone elses problem come next season.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Sums it up better than I did Bubbles.

Probably wouldn''t have pasted my previous comment if id read yours. Everything has to always be about him, with 2 assists all season (would love to know how long he actually had the ball compared to the rest of the tem)