Martin Atkinson and why our Refs have become a laughing stock

[First Wazzock 904]

Absolutely useless performance from Mr Atkinson tonight. Failed with a game changing decision and missed a blatant kick at Scott Parker.

I personally think that the only thing that TV replays can be used for is ''if the ball has crossed the line'', nothing else. When it comes down to should it have been a penalty, that''s all down to a personal decision - and we all see things differently. Just lately we have seen some shocking Reffing, for us, and in many other games. Something needs to be done by those in charge, because this is getting beyond a joke.

Shaun Derry sent off at Man U for touching Ashley Young (who flew through the air like an olympic gymnast), and a penalty against him. Why was this not recinded, because the penalty and the sending off were both a joke? We all know the answer, it was said on MOTD 2 a couple of Sunday''s back. The smaller clubs get a raw deal against the bigger teams, it can be seen most weeks. Fulham were denied a stonewall penalty against Man U at Old Trafford recently, and we had 2 turned down against Tottenham, why? The commentator said of our two against Spurs, ''they would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch'', so why were they not given?

I do realise that the ref''s today have stringent fitness testing, but they never seem to be in the right position to see these incidents. the majority of these events are not close to the assistant Ref, so I think the Ref''s really have to get into decent positions to watch everything that''s going on. Although Chris Foy had a pretty good game Saturday how did he not realise that Tevez didn''t dive and was in fact fouled?

There must be more transparency regarding how theses ref''s are dealt with, bearing in mind they are assessed at each game. Most people who do badly at work are given more training or downgraded, why does this not happen to Ref''s?

The powers that be need to address this and quick as our Ref''s are becoming a laughing stock, nevermind the ''Respect'' campaign.

[Mister Chops 7]

Although you could counter-argue that as

long as footballers dishonestly cheat, dive and attempt to con the

officials, they have no recourse to complain about officials honestly

getting decisions wrong.

[First Wazzock 904]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Although you could counter-argue that as long as footballers dishonestly cheat, dive and attempt to con the officials, they have no recourse to complain about officials honestly getting decisions wrong.

[/quote]

No doubt, the game has markedly changed, but why are the officials not in the best position to see it?

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

They were talking about stuff like this on the beeb live text site this afternoon, and some were mentioning whether they could come up with a ''citing'' panel for cheating/incidents, as they have in the egg-chasing game. Of course it might not alter decisions in the game, but guys like Young who apparently dived and won another pen today, would soon stop if they got bans for it.

[paul moy 235]

The problem is that Atkinson guessed that the ball was over the line as there was no way he could have seen it was, as the TV replay showed. Mark Halsey also gave a penalty to Manure today for what was a pretty blatant dive yet again by Ashley Young. No surprise there then !!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Two pens and one joke of red card the FA did not overturn for these:http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/WqQ3Q1.gifhttp://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/swan-dive-repeat.gif

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Two pens and one joke of red card the FA did not overturn for these:http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/WqQ3Q1.gifhttp://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/swan-dive-repeat.gif[/quote]Amazing.  And I had high hopes for Ashley Young, but looks like he''s following in Ronaldo''s footsteps.

[First Wazzock 904]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Two pens and one joke of red card the FA did not overturn for these:

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/WqQ3Q1.gif

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/swan-dive-repeat.gif
[/quote]

Shocking to watch.

Someone has got to take the Ref''s to task for falling for these and asking why they were not in a good enough positon to have clear view of the incidents apart from lazy refereeing.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

And, of course, the Chelsea captain who later admitted the ball came off him and didn''t cross the line was quick to let the ref know that at the time, wasn''t he?

 

The trouble is, when you get these poor decisions against you then you use that as justification for when they go for you, so everyone does it while claiming indignation.

 

The replays are available while the players are still arguing so no delay to the game occurs. It is time to help the referees out.

 

 

[Zak Van Burger 0]

When does gamesmanship become cheating?I for one would not be surprised to see Luis make a miraculous recovery from his horrific injury which just happened to deflect the referees attention from the Petr Cech scything down. Cech should have been red carded for that imo but didn''t even get booked. Deidre Drogba hit the deck, got the game stopped, the pressure relieved then recovered pretty quickly, the FA need to act quickly to save the credibility of the British game. It''s not just in the pen area the refs are being conned, it wouldn''t be hard to appoint a panel to independently view all penalty and yellow/red card incidents retrospectively using video footage. I guess it would be a start if the FA took their fingers out each others backsides and started applying a little common sense when clubs appeal blatant examples of cheating such as we''ve been seeing plenty of recently the power to award yellow and red cards and fines against perpetrators might make some of them just a little less reluctant to cheat.I shan''t be holding my breath...............

[nutty nigel 7,641]

Agreed Rudolph. But what looks a good idea now may not always be. How long would it be before clubs found a way to use the replay system to their advantage.

 

 

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

[quote user="Stirrinitup"]When does gamesmanship become cheating?
I for one would not be surprised to see Luis make a miraculous recovery from his horrific injury which just happened to deflect the referees attention from the Petr Cech scything down. Cech should have been red carded for that imo but didn''t even get booked. Deidre Drogba hit the deck, got the game stopped, the pressure relieved then recovered pretty quickly, the FA need to act quickly to save the credibility of the British game. It''s not just in the pen area the refs are being conned, it wouldn''t be hard to appoint a panel to independently view all penalty and yellow/red card incidents retrospectively using video footage.
I guess it would be a start if the FA took their fingers out each others backsides and started applying a little common sense when clubs appeal blatant examples of cheating such as we''ve been seeing plenty of recently the power to award yellow and red cards and fines against perpetrators might make some of them just a little less reluctant to cheat.
I shan''t be holding my breath...............
[/quote]

 

Although the referree would not be giving Cech any kind of card anyway, as he played advantage and Tottenham scored from it.  The only thing Cech would have been guilty of is a professional foul/denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity and as this was not denied and Bale scored there would not have been any punishment in any event.  The only way Cech would have required punishing even after the advantage would be if the foul was violent conduct and/or malicious in some way, which it obviously was not.

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Although you could counter-argue that as long as footballers dishonestly cheat, dive and attempt to con the officials, they have no recourse to complain about officials honestly getting decisions wrong.

[/quote]

 

Totally agree with this, right now the referee''s job is impossible, as basically all 22 players on the pitch are happy to go to any lengths to win the football match.  There is no sportsmanship or ''gentlemanly conduct'' and unless FIFA/UEFA/FA do something to alter this it will not get any better.

 

I would say the citation system sounds a good idea, but the problem would be like today''s latest Ashley Young dive, there will be somebody trotted out to explain that as there was contact he was entitled to go down to win a penalty, even though we can all see that was all he was playing for and actually stuck his foot across to make the contact even after the Villa defender pulled out of the challenge.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Isn''t the primary reason our referees have become the object of  ridicule simply the quantity and quality of cameras at games and the availability of immediate multiple replays?

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Isn''t the primary reason our referees have become the object of  ridicule simply the quantity and quality of cameras at games and the availability of immediate multiple replays?[/quote]

 

Would you not say the player''s attitude has changed/worsened? 

 

 

I liked John Terry''s appeal (correctly I might add) for offside for Tottenham''s goal today, which would have meant bringing play back, awarding Tottenham a penalty and a red card for Cech!

[K Lo 229]

Although most of the examples given above are about refs. spotting players cheating, that''s not always the case. Chelsea had two goals given against Wigan and both were offside but I don''t really think the Chelsea tried to con the ref. there, or did they? Not sure.Either way, why those crusties won''t use video reffing I don''t know. It works well in rugby and retrospective red cards have been given in football where TV camaras have caught off-the-ball offences, so the argument of "we want the game to be the same right down to grass roots" doesn''t hold there. It really is spoiling the game.Just to balance things up, Man C were denied a penalty against Norwich Saturday; not that that mattered really!

[SwindonCanary 455]

It shows how hard it is when Wazz come out with "Although Chris Foy had a pretty good game Saturday how did he not realise that Tevez didn''t dive and was in fact fouled?"  When you watch it again Tevez rear foot is stood on, so what makes his front foot not hit the ground ?  Exaggeration or Simulation ? Hard to tell.

[Robert N. LiM 4,501]

Yes, Rudolf, and I would add the presence of moronic ex-footballer on MotD and other such shows who bang on about referees'' incompetence but would never criticise a fellow ''professional'' for cheating.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Agreed Rudolph. But what looks a good idea now may not always be. How long would it be before clubs found a way to use the replay system to their advantage.

 

 

[/quote]

Precisely Nutty. If replays are introduced players will be hassling the ref over every single incident demanding that he takes a look at the video. Play will be continually broken up, free-flowing open football will cease to exist. The game will change for the worse.

[Canarino 0]

It''s a shame the players don''t behave like the guys who play professional snooker. It''s a boring game to watch IMO, but I like the way they put their hand up if they play a foul shot, even when the official hasn''t seen it. It''s not a case of winning at all costs. Cricketers used to do it too, at all levels of the sport.

Play up, play up and play the game, as Newbolt said.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Agreed Rudolph. But what looks a good idea now may not always be. How long would it be before clubs found a way to use the replay system to their advantage.

 

 

[/quote]

Precisely Nutty. If replays are introduced players will be hassling the ref over every single incident demanding that he takes a look at the video. Play will be continually broken up, free-flowing open football will cease to exist. The game will change for the worse.

[/quote]

 

Not sure if that''s true RTB . Surely it all depends how much the use of replay/goalline technology was introduced.? If it''s brought in for every last element (corners, free kicks, throw ins, retreating 10 yds etc etc etc), then, I''d agree that the game would be continually be broken up, and changed for the worse. But if used sparingly (say just to determine whether the ball has crossed the line , and ,maybe, the odd contentious offside), then the incidents of where it would be used would be pretty rare. For example, in rugby, it only seems to be used to determine whether a try should be awarded or not. And in cricket, it seems only to be used generally to judge on run-outs.

 

To me, it just seems crazy that we have the technology to avoid the sort of nonsense we saw at Wembley yesterday, but seem determined not to put it to good use.

[Jacko 0]

https://twitter.com/#!/pwnc0cktail/status/191616819663093761

To be fair to Atkinson. It isn''t quite the shocker I initially thought it was. It''s actually an incredibly tight call as to whether its gone in or not. But when you look at the way in which the decision has been arrived at there is absolutely no way it should have been given. When there are so many bodies in the way and there is so much going on I don''t see how you can give that with any certainty. Therefore you shouldn''t.

Video technology should be used. There is absolutely no doubt about it. I don''t really see how the argument often trotted out by FIFA that the game should be the same on Hackney Marshes as it should be at Wembley stacks up. Of course they are different.

[CDMullins 446]

[quote user="First Wazzock AKA Dr Vinyl"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Although you could counter-argue that as long as footballers dishonestly cheat, dive and attempt to con the officials, they have no recourse to complain about officials honestly getting decisions wrong.[/quote]

No doubt, the game has markedly changed, but why are the officials not in the best position to see it?

[/quote]Because they are only human

[paul moy 235]

Atkinson was also the ref that missed the awful tackle of Balotelli on Song last week,  and later said that he had seen it so Balotelli got let off a straight red and a possible nine match ban.  

[PurpleCanary 5,585]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="Rock The Boat"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Agreed Rudolph. But what looks a good idea now may not always be. How long would it be before clubs found a way to use the replay system to their advantage.

 

 

[/quote]

Precisely Nutty. If replays are introduced players will be hassling the ref over every single incident demanding that he takes a look at the video. Play will be continually broken up, free-flowing open football will cease to exist. The game will change for the worse.

[/quote]

 

Not sure if that''s true RTB . Surely it all depends how much the use of replay/goalline technology was introduced.? If it''s brought in for every last element (corners, free kicks, throw ins, retreating 10 yds etc etc etc), then, I''d agree that the game would be continually be broken up, and changed for the worse. But if used sparingly (say just to determine whether the ball has crossed the line , and ,maybe, the odd contentious offside), then the incidents of where it would be used would be pretty rare. For example, in rugby, it only seems to be used to determine whether a try should be awarded or not. And in cricket, it seems only to be used generally to judge on run-outs.

 

To me, it just seems crazy that we have the technology to avoid the sort of nonsense we saw at Wembley yesterday, but seem determined not to put it to good use.

[/quote]

 

The point was made on a Guardian podcast that when there was a recent controversial decision Sky took less time to come up with the answer than it took the referee to deal with the protests from players and restart the game. In practice using technology in that way wouldn''t create long breaks in play.

[First Wazzock 904]

[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="First Wazzock AKA Dr Vinyl"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Although you could counter-argue that as long as footballers dishonestly cheat, dive and attempt to con the officials, they have no recourse to complain about officials honestly getting decisions wrong.

[/quote]

No doubt, the game has markedly changed, but why are the officials not in the best position to see it?

[/quote]

Because they are only human
[/quote]

I accept that, but there have been some big, obvious decisions missed recently. Perhaps their fitness needs improving to get them to the better positions to see things. Or, someone needs to look at the way they are trained to make their positioning and movement different to take them to better positions.

[Gonzo 0]

I think (and have done for some time) that premier league football (where replays are freely available) adopt a similar approach to American Football and use timeouts or ‘challenges’.

Each team gets two challenges per game. These are used by the manager who would communicate with the fourth official. If correct the side retains its challenge (and obviously the resulting correct decision). If incorrect the side loses a challenge and the game continues with the original decision.

I appreciate that flaws exists, and they will do in any system, however I’d personally rather see this than some of the crap we get at the moment.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Gonzo"]

I think (and have done for some time) that premier league football (where replays are freely available) adopt a similar approach to American Football and use timeouts or ‘challenges’.

Each team gets two challenges per game. These are used by the manager who would communicate with the fourth official. If correct the side retains its challenge (and obviously the resulting correct decision). If incorrect the side loses a challenge and the game continues with the original decision.

I appreciate that flaws exists, and they will do in any system, however I’d personally rather see this than some of the crap we get at the moment.

[/quote]theres on average 3 minutes between each play in the NFL... the ball can be from one end of the pitch to the other in 5 seconds in football...good luck!Also, the chalenges in the NFL are not reviewed by the 4th official... the match referee reviews the decision.. he doesnt HAVE to change his mind....steelers vs the Ravens 2 years ago for example...

[Making Plans 940]

[quote user="Gonzo"]

I think (and have done for some time) that premier league football (where replays are freely available) adopt a similar approach to American Football and use timeouts or ‘challenges’.

Each team gets two challenges per game. These are used by the manager who would communicate with the fourth official. If correct the side retains its challenge (and obviously the resulting correct decision). If incorrect the side loses a challenge and the game continues with the original decision.

I appreciate that flaws exists, and they will do in any system, however I’d personally rather see this than some of the crap we get at the moment.

[/quote]NO THANKS

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

[quote user="Jacko"]https://twitter.com/#!/pwnc0cktail/status/191616819663093761 To be fair to Atkinson. It isn''t quite the shocker I initially thought it was. It''s actually an incredibly tight call as to whether its gone in or not. But when you look at the way in which the decision has been arrived at there is absolutely no way it should have been given. When there are so many bodies in the way and there is so much going on I don''t see how you can give that with any certainty. Therefore you shouldn''t. Video technology should be used. There is absolutely no doubt about it. I don''t really see how the argument often trotted out by FIFA that the game should be the same on Hackney Marshes as it should be at Wembley stacks up. Of course they are different.[/quote]

 

The main problem with Atkinson''s decision was that it was a guess.  There was no way he could''ve told from his position conclusively whether they ball was over or not, so surely in the circumstances the only decision he could really make was to play on.  But he guessed that it might have crossed the line and thus gave the wrong decision.