England Qualify

[St.John Cooper 0]

But they were woeful tonight.....players just do not seem to care....Downing, Barry in the side...why? Rooney a fool again and a team of clowns, we will get a beating in the finals. We are not in anyway convincing...all in all rubish!

[shefcanary 2,435]

Wholly agree Coops.  Far too easy for them in the first 10 minutes and instead of solid easy passing were trying too many flicks, dabs and dummies.  Really sloppy.  Actually looked better without Rooney, and as we know from OT he ain''t up to much if you push him deep.  Thank god the Euro''s will get lost in the build up to the Olympics!

[shefcanary 2,435]

I think Capello agrees with me:2226: England boss Fabio Capello on Wayne Rooney''s sending off:

"I was surprised because it was just in front of me that he kicked the

opponent. I think the red card for Rooney was right. The next game he

will be suspended so we will try to find new solutions. Rooney is an

important player but sometimes important players don''t play well and

make mistakes. It will be good lesson for him and the team. The player

is frustrated from [what happened] on the pitch not from what happened

away from it."BUT HE''S THE MANAGER AND SHOULD HAVE SORTED IT BEFORE NOW!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I would have put money on Rooney getting sent off tonight!

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

I''ve not watched an England game for years and actually felt bothered by the result. The regulars are far to comfortable and seemingly don''t give a toss. There doesn''t seem to be any sense of National pride amongst them.I suspect I''m not alone in thinking that it''d be good to see a squad made up of lower Prem players and from the football league. At least they might put in some effort and not believe the hype about their talents. We might even achieve something more than qualifying with the bare minimum of effort and a shocking cup campaign.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="St.John Cooper"]But they were woeful tonight.....players just do not seem to care....Downing, Barry in the side...why? Rooney a fool again and a team of clowns, we will get a beating in the finals. We are not in anyway convincing...all in all rubish![/quote]

Hmm.

 

Downing is there because he''s a very good player who has been playing very well for the last couple of seasons. His inclusion is both deserved and justified.

 

As for Gareth Barry, you''d hope that he''s just in there until Jack Wilshere is fit to play. The combination of Wilshere and Parker in the middle is potentially very good. Barry is the kind of player that Capello has always liked in midfield - safe, unexciting and absolutely no pace. To be fair to Barry he''s a good player, nice passer of the ball and his form for Citeh this season has been good but his lack of pace was shown to be very costly at the WC.

 

Rooney is a fool, there''s no argument there. Brilliant player but just prone to being a total moron.

 

And to be fair to Montenegro I''ve seen worse sides than them. They''ve got a few players who can handle themselves and some who play at a high level of club football. Of course from a 2-0 lead England shoudn''t have messed it up like they did but Montenegro kept going til the end and got the point they deserved.

 

England are a decent side at the moment, not a great side but they''re far from "woeful". However, they have got some good players coming through and with the right manager incharge (which Capello certainly isn''t) we could have a very good team in the years to come.

 

Does anyone think they''d have p1ssed away a 2 goal lead tonight like that if Paul Lambert was boss?

 

[St.John Cooper 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="St.John Cooper"]But they were woeful tonight.....players just do not seem to care....Downing, Barry in the side...why? Rooney a fool again and a team of clowns, we will get a beating in the finals. We are not in anyway convincing...all in all rubish![/quote]

Hmm.

 

Downing is there because he''s a very good player who has been playing very well for the last couple of seasons. His inclusion is both deserved and justified.

 

As for Gareth Barry, you''d hope that he''s just in there until Jack Wilshere is fit to play. The combination of Wilshere and Parker in the middle is potentially very good. Barry is the kind of player that Capello has always liked in midfield - safe, unexciting and absolutely no pace. To be fair to Barry he''s a good player, nice passer of the ball and his form for Citeh this season has been good but his lack of pace was shown to be very costly at the WC.

 

Rooney is a fool, there''s no argument there. Brilliant player but just prone to being a total moron.

 

And to be fair to Montenegro I''ve seen worse sides than them. They''ve got a few players who can handle themselves and some who play at a high level of club football. Of course from a 2-0 lead England shoudn''t have messed it up like they did but Montenegro kept going til the end and got the point they deserved.

 

England are a decent side at the moment, not a great side but they''re far from "woeful". However, they have got some good players coming through and with the right manager incharge (which Capello certainly isn''t) we could have a very good team in the years to come.

 

Does anyone think they''d have p1ssed away a 2 goal lead tonight like that if Paul Lambert was boss?

 

[/quote]

Have to disagree...Downing is not international quality and we were woeful tonight...does not mean we are always so but tonight it was like watching ameaturs

[GJP 79]

2 or 3 years back I''d have probably agreed about Downing but he''s really started doing the business over the last couple of years. He''s probably got a better level of consistency to his game than Young and Walcott. Though he''s probably not got quite the same amount of pace or goalscoring threat.

 

Woeful is still a bit too strong for me. Started well but faded and finished poorly.

 

Doesn''t matter anyway because we can''t trust Capello. He really hasn''t moved us forward in our football, we get by because we''ve got some good players who''ve got enough about them to get themselves through the majority of qualifying games against weaker sides. Every so often we''ll turn in an encouraging performance but next time out it''ll be back to square one.

 

What we should have been doing since last year is building towards the World Cup but look at Lampard''s inclusion. Ok, it would seem he''s starting to lose his regular spot and while he still has something to offer in the short term he''s not going to make the WC in 2014. His place in the squad would be better given to someone who has got their best years infront of them.

 

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

To be fair, GJP, we get that same kind of optimism every few years when we start bringing young players in. It always leads nowhere.

England will always disappoint, because:

a) The players don''t really care about playing for England. See today''s Secret Footballer article in the Guardian if you don''t believe me. And the managers and fans just want their players to avoid injury (see the Crofts/Morison thread for evidence of this.) International football is second-rate. Has been for years.

b) We can''t pass the ball to each other. It''s a cliche, but it''s true. We rate hard-working dynamos like Gerrard and mistrust those, like the suspiciously German Hargreaves, for instance, who actually keep the ball (the Norwich fans who vote for Holt as player of the year above the sublime Wes are quite good examples of this.)

c) Expectations are far too high. We''re about eighth best team in the world, which is more or less where we should be. Every time we play a major footballing nation, we lose. It''s been like this since 1986, at least. No sign of it changing any time soon.

[Cappsy 0]

I actually watched the Wales game as my nan is welsh so that''s my excuse. I have no willingness to win feeling whatsoever associated with the current England squad and prefered watching the Wales team give 110% for their country. plus the small coincidence crofts and morison started. what a game Morison had aswell

[BW 0]

Downing is second rate i''m sorry. Saying that so are most the english players. Lets hope we don''t all start ''believing'' again come the summer, it''s not going to happen.

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

The England team = boring boring boring!

No passion in this team whatsoever. Unlike Montenegro who looked like they had just been promoted when the final whistle went lol.

As for Rooney... I wont write what word best describes him on what could be a forum viewed by minors!

[Largey 0]

After the World Cup I think the mood amongst English fans is that no one really expects us to win the Euros. Which possibly alleviates some pressure off the national side but then again doesn''t really boost the confidence.

[NWC 245]

Who cares about england?I would rather see a team of non-proffesionals who play with pride and passion, even if they lose I wouldn''t care, as long as they gave it their all and tried their hardest.England is full of premier league, prima donna spoilt brats - they mean nothig to me.

[Syteanric 1]

Ahh the good old "English Football" debate....The game in this country is 20 years behind the rest of the world.. European players come over here and learn a different language, culture, lifestyle and system of play... basically they can suss out English football and take what they have learnt into the International stage...English players on the other hand stick to England, know only England, and think they have some god given right to win.... until our outlook on the game changes and England accepts it isnt a world super power in football but is in the next stage down (Not developing nation but progressing/declining country) then they will never win another international tournament.A weak qualifying group is the only reason England have made the Euros... We saw at the world cup against USa and Germany what happens when Quality Opposition come to town.

[hogesar 9,709]

[quote user="NWC"]Who cares about england?I would rather see a team of non-proffesionals who play with pride and passion, even if they lose I wouldn''t care, as long as they gave it their all and tried their hardest.England is full of premier league, prima donna spoilt brats - they mean nothig to me.[/quote]In my opinion you can care about England regardless of the players.

[NWC 245]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="NWC"]Who cares about england?I would rather see a team of non-proffesionals who play with pride and passion, even if they lose I wouldn''t care, as long as they gave it their all and tried their hardest.England is full of premier league, prima donna spoilt brats - they mean nothig to me.[/quote]In my opinion you can care about England regardless of the players.[/quote]Unfortunately the players ARE the team.

[Herman 9,802]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="NWC"]Who cares about england?

I would rather see a team of non-proffesionals who play with pride and passion, even if they lose I wouldn''t care, as long as they gave it their all and tried their hardest.

England is full of premier league, prima donna spoilt brats - they mean nothig to me.
[/quote]

In my opinion you can care about England regardless of the players.
[/quote]

[Y] I will carry on supporting England even though the team and the way they play has major faults.My major problem is with the people running our game,but that''s a different argument.

[AndyJR 0]

I really don''t care about the ''National'' team. Let''s face it, they are rather useless and you''re right; they couldn''t care less and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

[Boyo 0]

Phil Jones looked like he wanted to be in an England shirt, as did Danny Welbeck when he came on and Wilshere always stands out from the rest when he plays for England.  Maybe the next generation will come good?

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

The problem is the old guard will  and their indifference to international football will eventually take effect on the younger players who at present seem to want to achieve something at that level. The only way to get things changed is to start completely fresh. New management and coaching team and remove all the ''names'' from the squad who have had more than enough chances such as Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard. None have come anywhere close to performing at the same level as they do for their clubs and it''s down to the mentality that the England team is not worth bothering with. If they were to be removed and the enthusiasm shown by the younger players was allowed to develop along with a manager who could actually connect with them and bring some pride back to the team then I think we''d see far better performances during the tournaments.

Of course this won''t happen as the FA like their big name players that bring in the tourists.

[Unhinged Canary 375]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]I would have put money on Rooney getting sent off tonight![/quote]I wonder if Rooney Sr did? [A]

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Ahh the good old "English Football" debate....

The game in this country is 20 years behind the rest of the world.. European players come over here and learn a different language, culture, lifestyle and system of play... basically they can suss out English football and take what they have learnt into the International stage...

English players on the other hand stick to England, know only England, and think they have some god given right to win.... until our outlook on the game changes and England accepts it isnt a world super power in football but is in the next stage down (Not developing nation but progressing/declining country) then they will never win another international tournament.

A weak qualifying group is the only reason England have made the Euros... We saw at the world cup against USa and Germany what happens when Quality Opposition come to town.


[/quote]

And we are in same pot as Spain for first round, might not even bother to book flights out, because England will be on first flight home.the presant England''s bad form is the blame of the top6 prem clubs, fillinf thier own squads with European players and ignoring british players, I have said for a very long time now that the players who turn out for England are riding along in the comfort zone and we should look at afew players in the Championship, If nothing else they would show a bit more passion for the England shirt . we have at Norwich 1 or 2 they could have   

[Yobocop 1,105]

Problem for me is the fans expectations, we are not the best team in the World.

We won the group with 1 game to spare (well 1 game for 2nd place anyway) people need to get real, we were never going to walk it.

It''s not the english players fault that the Premiership is the best league in the world, therefore the argument of them being somehow ''cozy'' in their own country is not acceptable.

Let''s get behind the boys rather than criticise them! Did the Spanish fans criticise their team before their domination? doubtful.....

We have some superb players coming through the ranks and its looking a lot better than it was in South Africa (which was completely unacceptable!) the likes of Danny Welbeck, Phil Jones, Joe Hart, Kyle Walker + perhaps our brightest star Jack Wilshere, these boys are the future! Let''s get behind them instead of doing what we always do....

[Mister Chops 7]

I am starting to think Gary Neville is a bit smarter than the average bear.http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15232130.stm

[CambridgeCanary 0]

There are many reasons for England''s failures since 1970 to be at the peak of world comnpetition. The players are no longer focussed on international football, players are too insular and don''t play abroad, press and fan''s expectations are unrealistic and coaching is inadequate.

I think that the last is the most important. We coach our kids to play the English traditional way. 442,relaince on strength and stamina and a win is all that matters culture. Fans would rather watch a player run himself into the ground than one who is intelligent and prefers brain over brawn.

We sit and listen to commentators talking of international players having the ball on their "wrong foot" for God''s sake. How many Spanish, Dutch or German players have a wrong foot? Very few because they are coached entirely differently. They learn ball skills not just fitness and they grow differently. The reason so many are so articulate when interviewd is because they are taught about the game and encouraged to think.

One reason I don''t support England is because success for the national team validates our primitive and inadequate coaching methods. Only constant humiliation leads to the possibility of change.

For those who talk of our world class players, one question. How many woukld get into the squads, never mind the teams of Soain, Holland or Germany? Spain last year might have nenfitted from Cole and Rooney but no one was good enought o get into the Spanish team.

[T 190]

It is easy to sit and criticize but until more people are willing to give up their time and money to qualify as coaches to develop kids we will always behind other European countries whose societies are less selfish and more community minded.

[calriv 0]

I want England to do well (as most Englishmen would) but we just won''t win anything for a while. If you look at the players in the German, Spanish and Dutch side - even Uruguay at the moment - then we will be vastly out-player by them and consequently lose. Hopefully, this performance after the first 35 minutes will convince any fans who believe England will go far in the Euros that we won''t.