Words to strike fear in your heart

[blahblahblah 2]

Freebie - why the spaces ?  are you a narcoleptic ?  Did you fall asleep on the return key ?

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Big Bad John"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]bear hugs, fouls, ball watching and conceded free kicks.[/quote]Sounds a bit like Grant Holt.

If only Jamie Lad would do some of that he might be a decent striker!

[/quote]And if Doherty decides to stop doing it inside or around ''our'' box like Holt i''m a happy man.I know i''m going to get a lot of stick for this, but for the sake of my own sanity i honestly just want him gone. Thankyou and goodbye, that''s it. No ill will towards him, i just want him to go so we can forget the torment of watching us play in the past 3 years. The way he plays as a defender wierldy seems to encapsulate the nervy and edgy feeling i''ve felt ever since the final days of Worthy. It''s rather silly really, but i just can''t tolerate watching him around any of the opposing players.Until he goes i''ll never feel like we''ve moved on from a period of history at Norwich City that i will forever do my best to forget.[/quote]Big Bad John.....................this is a perfect post on the subject. Everytime I watch him I get the feeling of total apprehension that I remember only when I was waiting outside the headmasters office when i was at school..........you know there''s something happening, you don''t know what, why or how but the feeling is in the pit of your stomach that something is going to go wrong.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Scottlarock"][quote user="Big Bad John"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]bear hugs, fouls, ball watching and conceded free kicks.[/quote]Sounds a bit like Grant Holt.

If only Jamie Lad would do some of that he might be a decent striker!

[/quote]And if Doherty decides to stop doing it inside or around ''our'' box like Holt i''m a happy man.I know i''m going to get a lot of stick for this, but for the sake of my own sanity i honestly just want him gone. Thankyou and goodbye, that''s it. No ill will towards him, i just want him to go so we can forget the torment of watching us play in the past 3 years. The way he plays as a defender wierldy seems to encapsulate the nervy and edgy feeling i''ve felt ever since the final days of Worthy. It''s rather silly really, but i just can''t tolerate watching him around any of the opposing players.Until he goes i''ll never feel like we''ve moved on from a period of history at Norwich City that i will forever do my best to forget.[/quote]Big Bad John.....................this is a perfect post on the subject. Everytime I watch him I get the feeling of total apprehension that I remember only when I was waiting outside the headmasters office when i was at school..........you know there''s something happening, you don''t know what, why or how but the feeling is in the pit of your stomach that something is going to go wrong.[/quote]Well, we''ve gone 4 games with Doc partnering Askou at CB and only conceded one goal, so statistically we are due to concede a goal sooner rather than later.  It will be interesting to see who gets the blame when we do let a couple in, though personally I think it''s interesting that our new found watertightness has coincided with the absence of Otsemobor.

[Jimbo_Jet_Set 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]     I think it''s interesting that our new found watertightness has coincided with the absence of Otsemobor.

[/quote]

Totally agree. His imminent return at Elland Road concerns me far more than who will be playing at centre back

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Scottlarock"][quote user="Big Bad John"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]bear hugs, fouls, ball watching and conceded free kicks.[/quote]Sounds a bit like Grant Holt.

If only Jamie Lad would do some of that he might be a decent striker!

[/quote]And if Doherty decides to stop doing it inside or around ''our'' box like Holt i''m a happy man.I know i''m going to get a lot of stick for this, but for the sake of my own sanity i honestly just want him gone. Thankyou and goodbye, that''s it. No ill will towards him, i just want him to go so we can forget the torment of watching us play in the past 3 years. The way he plays as a defender wierldy seems to encapsulate the nervy and edgy feeling i''ve felt ever since the final days of Worthy. It''s rather silly really, but i just can''t tolerate watching him around any of the opposing players.Until he goes i''ll never feel like we''ve moved on from a period of history at Norwich City that i will forever do my best to forget.[/quote]Big Bad John.....................this is a perfect post on the subject. Everytime I watch him I get the feeling of total apprehension that I remember only when I was waiting outside the headmasters office when i was at school..........you know there''s something happening, you don''t know what, why or how but the feeling is in the pit of your stomach that something is going to go wrong.[/quote]Well, we''ve gone 4 games with Doc partnering Askou at CB and only conceded one goal, so statistically we are due to concede a goal sooner rather than later.  It will be interesting to see who gets the blame when we do let a couple in, though personally I think it''s interesting that our new found watertightness has coincided with the absence of Otsemobor.[/quote]I know Mr Chops...........the effect Doc has on fans and opposition has little to do with his performances, it''s more Pavlovian than that, it''s an association thing. If I was an opposition striker or manager I know exactly what I''d be doing in terms of strategy when playing us.......in fact knowing I was up against the Doc would put a huge spring in my step.I still haven''t been back to the Carra since Aug 8th as I will not break my promise (thread on here) that I never want to watch him play in a city shirt again, I can''t bear it anymore. Even in the unlikely event he''s with us next season in th e championship or in 2 years in the Prem.

[Matt Morriss 69]

Im glad he''s staying, he looked good pre season alongside Askou, was abysmal against Col U but his last few performances have been top notch. Doc and Askou is good enough for League 1.Just look at the goals conceded since Doc came back into the side.

[Shaker 0]

Honest to god what is the point of you Wiz? You''ve quite clearly got no first hand knowledge of how the defence has been playing that much is obvious by saying you''d rather have Nelson in the side instead of Doc. Theres not one player who puts in as much effort week in week out as Doc and he''s the best centre back we''ve got. If Doc had not been in the side for the last four games there would be a thread on here proudly stating 4 GAMES, 1 GOAL CONCEDED = DOCS CRAP! and it would have about 500 joyous replies. So being as you can''t use that thread you get your felt tips out in time for Monday ready to mark down everytime the ginger one makes the slightest mistake. Here''s hoping he gives away a couple of penalties yeah, then you and all the other Doc watch boys can have a jolly good evening!

[Scottlarock 3]

[quote user="Shaker"]

Honest to god what is the point of you Wiz? You''ve quite clearly got no first hand knowledge of how the defence has been playing that much is obvious by saying you''d rather have Nelson in the side instead of Doc. Theres not one player who puts in as much effort week in week out as Doc and he''s the best centre back we''ve got. If Doc had not been in the side for the last four games there would be a thread on here proudly stating 4 GAMES, 1 GOAL CONCEDED = DOCS CRAP! and it would have about 500 joyous replies. So being as you can''t use that thread you get your felt tips out in time for Monday ready to mark down everytime the ginger one makes the slightest mistake. Here''s hoping he gives away a couple of penalties yeah, then you and all the other Doc watch boys can have a jolly good evening!

[/quote]you are obviously entitled to your opinion but the highlighted ''fact'' is doing a disservice to the rest of the team and is also pure rubbish.

[Crew Cut Wes 0]

if the free kick conceded by doc at the carlisle game was instead a penalty (which it should''ve been) then some people here would be saying otherwise

[nutty nigel 7,597]

[quote user="ldnboy"]if the free kick conceded by doc at the carlisle game was instead a penalty (which it should''ve been) then some people here would be saying otherwise[/quote]

Well what a strange little post[:O]

If Dobie had taken that chance when he broke clear from Askou, after Askou made exactly the same attempt to stand firm as The Doc, and failed, then people would have been saying.......

Nothing. Because they didn''t notice it anyway.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride but in truth Doc doesn''t give away that many free kicks and penaties does he? So all I can assume is that he spends his wages bribing the refs...

or....

You lot are wrong[:O]

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="ldnboy"]if the free kick conceded by doc at the carlisle game was instead a penalty (which it should''ve been) then some people here would be saying otherwise[/quote]

Well what a strange little post[:O]

If Dobie had taken that chance when he broke clear from Askou, after Askou made exactly the same attempt to stand firm as The Doc, and failed, then people would have been saying.......

Nothing. Because they didn''t notice it anyway.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride but in truth Doc doesn''t give away that many free kicks and penaties does he? So all I can assume is that he spends his wages bribing the refs...

or....

You lot are wrong[:O]

 

[/quote]

Ok Nutty, why does he make people so nervous?

My opinion is he is a poor defender always was and always will be. Just about arrived at his level in division 3 and now one of the best of a poor bunch, that we must now have to get used to.

You have the records of players  follow the CB,s from Butler onwards and come up with one or two that were worse. I''m pushed to think but I am sure you will find some to defend him with. Bruce,Watson,Butterworth, Polston,Malky, Flem.... Carry on

[nutty nigel 7,597]

Butler - Why do you want to single out The Doc in this exercise? Why don''t you do the same for the goalkeeper,  full backs, Askou, the midfield, and the strikers?

Is Doc so much more inferior to Watson than Askou is to Bruce?

What''s the poor guy ever done to you[:^)]

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Big Bob"][quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="First Wizard"]

Or: Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water:

http://www.pinkun.com/content/pinkun/norwich-city/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PINKUNOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED14%20Oct%202009%2009%3A55%3A00%3A617

Oh dear God.....not again![:''(]

[/quote]

So what would be your first choice back 4?

[/quote]

Spillaine and Nelson back in for a start.........hang on, I''ll make it more simpler.............Doc shipped out!!

[/quote]
Stop making yourself look like such a fool, anybody who has been to matches this season (obviously not you) will much prefer to have Doc than Nelson. Plus i''m not sure if you''ve noticed but Spillane and Nelson are both out injured.
[/quote]

Idiot!

1. I''ve watched City this season.

2. Its my, and Lamberts, opinion that Nelson is better than Doc...hence him being dropped by Paul....is he an idiot too in your eyes?

3. Of course I know they''re both injured, how else do you think Donkey got back into the side?

[Houston Canary 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Houston - 6 league games, and 3 sub appearances.  It was in my previous post, with all the other facts, which I found on the football league site in the hope that we could have some kind of pros and cons, mature conversation about the Doc.   I guess you skim-read my post so that you could get straight into your copy and paste, mind already made, vitriolic response, based on what - half a dozen games on Fox soccer Channel over 5 seasons, and the less thought out posts of some people in here ?  Hope you enjoyed spewing forth your vitriol ! [:)]...
[/quote]

Thank you, I did. I had no idea asking how many games he played in compared to others was vitriolic. Maybe you are just oversensitive because you love GoD so much. Your previous table you cut and pasted as much as I did my comment was cluttered and difficult to read. I could not make out which, if any, number represented games played or even better, minutes played.  So yaddayaddayadda, if your work was legible, we wouldn''t be having this little tete a tete, would we! Do you agree that GoD has found his playing level?

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Butler - Why do you want to single out The Doc in this exercise? Why don''t you do the same for the goalkeeper,  full backs, Askou, the midfield, and the strikers?

Is Doc so much more inferior to Watson than Askou is to Bruce?

What''s the poor guy ever done to you[:^)]

 

[/quote]

Do forgive me but is the thread not about Doc?

He has done nothing to me other than create a mild panic attack. Perhaps he is no worse than any of the others BUT we bought him as a Prem Defender not 3rd division one as we have most of the rest.

[nutty nigel 7,597]

I know it''s about The Doc. I have been posting about The Doc. It''s my opinion that he has been our best centre half since we were relegated from the Premiership. It''s not his or my fault that we never got better. He is an ugly footballer who is awkward and clumsy looking. His mistakes stay in the memory. I have seen more of them than most, the worst being that New Years Day at Selhurst when he was caught on the ball by Kuqi. I have posted all this on here constantly including describing that incident on more than one occasion. However, he was our centreback at a time the whole team has been cr*p and that''s certainly not his fault. It''s no coincidence that now we are playing as a team with protection from the midfield and defending from the front The Doc hasn''t made so many mistakes. We are tighter at the back with Doc/Askou than we were with Nelson/Askou and with Spillane at right back we began to look really solid.

I don''t see anything different in Docs personal performance over the last four games than I saw earlier in the season or last season. What have you seen different that''s made him look a better player. He is what he is and you get what you get. Good stopper in this league, definitely capable of stepping up to the Champs,  but Premier League? You''re ''avin a laugh!

 

[writeronthestorm 4]

Seems to me that, given our squad and injuries, it''s a good thing that Doc has shown he can do a job for us.  I don''t think that makes him a certain starter for the rest of the season, but at least Lambert knows he has someone to turn to in the CB position, if needed.

I''ve never really rated him and he does make me nervous at times, but that is my perception, not necessarily the way it is.

More interesting is the theory of Otsemobor''s absence coinciding with our tightened defence.  I think that theory has more legs than the polarised views on the Doc.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="paul ncfc"]Although I do not think that Doherty is the way forward for us , I share some of the concerns over Askou, I wish he would be able to develop the ability within his game to attack the ball more and not waiting for a bounce, hopefully this is something the coaches have identified and he will improve as he is still very early in his City career.[/quote]I think Askou is a solid all round player. Don''t forget this is his first season in English football - how many has Doherty been playing for now?On top of that I think the reason Askou is often unwilling to commit to attacking the bouncing ball is a doubt over whether he will clear it or not. If you fail to get anything on that ball and it gets past you your marker is clean through, in some ways if your marker is running at you you are better to let it bounce, if they are going to the ball you go with them and try and get their first. The other side to this is knowing where your defencive partner is, if you know the other player will be through and your defencive partner hasnt got the pace to cover you then again you stick to the player.I am afraid its not so simple as just attack the ball - you have to know that you are nailed on to win that ball, if not you could end up stuck in no mans land with your man clean through on goal.

[missing in action? 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="ncfcstar"]I sometimes forget you don''t go to the games Wiz, but then posts like this remind me! [;)] You know I am not the biggest fan of the Doc, and have been one of his biggest critics, but fair play to the guy the performances he has put in over the past few weeks make him one of the first names on the teamsheet in my opinion.  We would be worse off without him now, and I applaud his change in mind.Not many people think this, but I tell you what he is far better than Askou, who, in my opinion, is a bigger risk than the Doc ever was.[/quote]

Regardless of anything star, I and a few others (who go to every single gaame) still see his bear hugs, fouls, ball watching and conceded free kicks.

They will be no doubt repeated live on Sky at the Leeds game!

[/quote]a team playing well, will always beat a side who have 1 or 2 good players but dont work as a side. at home moment, we are working well as a side, thats what matters.as culverhouse said too, a team full of * but confident lads will win more than a good side low on confidence.the battle will be of confidence next monday.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

.........I''ve been looking at your internet browsing history..............

[Norfolk Dumpling 14]

While Doc does the job Lambert will keep him in the team.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Norfolk Dumpling"]While Doc does the job Lambert will keep him in the team.[/quote]

And when Nelson and Spillaine are fit?

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Norfolk Dumpling"]While Doc does the job Lambert will keep him in the team.[/quote]

And when Nelson and Spillaine are fit?

[/quote]

Well you would imagine that Spillane will return at RB and then it depends how well Doc plays in the run up to Nelsons return to fitness I guess. On current form only somebody holding a massive grudge against the guy would argue that Doc deserves to be dropped.

[First Wazzock 904]

Words to strike fear in your heart

 

Wiz is writing his life story  [|-)]

[Beauseant 0]

Doc was poor at the start of the season and deserved to be axed. However, since coming back in he''s hardly put a foot wrong. The nature of football fans is that we all have our favourites, for example Wiz loves Curo who I personally think is in terminal decline, but trying to rationalise people''s views and develop a uniform consensus is like trying to turn back the tide.

We are winning and keeping clean sheets with a CB pairing of Askou and Doc. If they continue to achieve that they will almost certainly keep their places, if they make mistakes the door will open for others. Instead of indulging in the sort of vindictive sniping that has cropped up in this thread let''s just enjoy our current run of form and hope that it continues on Monday.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

Doc was poor at the start of the season and deserved to be axed. However, since coming back in he''s hardly put a foot wrong. The nature of football fans is that we all have our favourites, for example Wiz loves Curo who I personally think is in terminal decline, but trying to rationalise people''s views and develop a uniform consensus is like trying to turn back the tide.

We are winning and keeping clean sheets with a CB pairing of Askou and Doc. If they continue to achieve that they will almost certainly keep their places, if they make mistakes the door will open for others. Instead of indulging in the sort of vindictive sniping that has cropped up in this thread let''s just enjoy our current run of form and hope that it continues on Monday.

[/quote]

A very sensible post Beausent, and one I can''t argue with, so I''ll call a ceasefire on Doc for now..............unless at Leeds?

[Mook 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Beauseant"]

Doc was poor at the start of the season and deserved to be axed. However, since coming back in he''s hardly put a foot wrong. The nature of football fans is that we all have our favourites, for example Wiz loves Curo who I personally think is in terminal decline, but trying to rationalise people''s views and develop a uniform consensus is like trying to turn back the tide.

We are winning and keeping clean sheets with a CB pairing of Askou and Doc. If they continue to achieve that they will almost certainly keep their places, if they make mistakes the door will open for others. Instead of indulging in the sort of vindictive sniping that has cropped up in this thread let''s just enjoy our current run of form and hope that it continues on Monday.

[/quote]

A very sensible post Beausent, and one I can''t argue with, so I''ll call a ceasefire on Doc for now..............unless at Leeds?

[/quote]... unless we concede a goal, away, against the team top of the league, with consistently the highest scorer in the division playing for them??? Hardly fair is it. I think perhaps we should see if Doherty reverts to his poor early season form before dropping him.Like many posting on this subject, I believe that the absence of OTSEMOBOR has more than a little to do with our current good defensive form...

[nutty nigel 7,597]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

Doc was poor at the start of the season and deserved to be axed. However, since coming back in he''s hardly put a foot wrong. The nature of football fans is that we all have our favourites, for example Wiz loves Curo who I personally think is in terminal decline, but trying to rationalise people''s views and develop a uniform consensus is like trying to turn back the tide.

We are winning and keeping clean sheets with a CB pairing of Askou and Doc. If they continue to achieve that they will almost certainly keep their places, if they make mistakes the door will open for others. Instead of indulging in the sort of vindictive sniping that has cropped up in this thread let''s just enjoy our current run of form and hope that it continues on Monday.

[/quote]

Well I don''t agree that Doc particularly deserved to be dropped and excluded but I certainly respect this post. It''s an honest opinion that''s not being backed up by made up stats to prove it. But then Beaus is and honest poster. Doc certainly wasn''t the worst defender against Colchester, he was probably the best. (If there can be a best). He played well enough at Yeovil and Exeter but wasn''t his best at Brentford. Apart from his well documented slip against Sunderland he did a pretty good job. I personally wonder if Nelson would have done better against Kenwyn Jones.

I would have thought if any defender deserved to be dropped after those early season games it would have been Otsemebor for Spillane but that didn''t happen until he was injured. The changes Lambert brought about in midfield made a huge difference but we still shipped goals through defensive errors and I cite the two goals against Wycombe and the two against Charlton. When the changes in midfield were complimented by an enforced change at right back and the enforced change bringing back Ginger Pele we have looked extremely solid.

However I get the feeling from the grudging acceptance of Doc on this board that the knives will be back out at the first mistake. Well I think we should understand that all clubs concede goals through defensive mistakes, even Manchester United. I think we should realise that all defenders give away fouls in defensive positions. I only saw the TV highlights from Carlisle but Askou made more mistakes than Doc but they haven''t been mentioned on here. Now I am not criticising Askou because I accept that on TV, especially on highlights, a false opinion can be formed. But I would have been happy for Askou to have made sure that Dobie didn''t get away and have virtually a one on one with their keeper when he committed Docs bear hug but still let the player get away from him.

But I fear the next slip, foul or misplaced pass will result in a good honest professional, who wants to play for our club, being villified once more by the fans.

 

[7rew 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

However I get the feeling from the grudging acceptance of Doc on this board that the knives will be back out at the first mistake. Well I think we should understand that all clubs concede goals through defensive mistakes, even Manchester United. I think we should realise that all defenders give away fouls in defensive positions. I only saw the TV highlights from Carlisle but Askou made more mistakes than Doc but they haven''t been mentioned on here. Now I am not criticising Askou because I accept that on TV, especially on highlights, a false opinion can be formed. But I would have been happy for Askou to have made sure that Dobie didn''t get away and have virtually a one on one with their keeper when he committed Docs bear hug but still let the player get away from him.

But I fear the next slip, foul or misplaced pass will result in a good honest professional, who wants to play for our club, being villified once more by the fans.

 

[/quote]You didn''t form a particularly false opinion on carlisle from the highlights - Askou did have a dodgy 5 minutes where he let Dobie away twice in quick succession and the Doc had one of the holding/backing in 50/50 decisions go against him for the free kick in the first half.  He also had a couple of the same decisions go for him and made the long cross field pass to drury which put him through one on one - it was far more accurate than a hoof.But both of them were pretty solid - I was very surprised to see ratings where one majorly out scored the other.It was also probably the first time I''ve seen the Doc give away a free kick in such a position in however many matches i''ve seen him in (generally away matches fwiw).

[ncfcstar 292]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"]

Doc was poor at the start of the season and deserved to be axed. However, since coming back in he''s hardly put a foot wrong. The nature of football fans is that we all have our favourites, for example Wiz loves Curo who I personally think is in terminal decline, but trying to rationalise people''s views and develop a uniform consensus is like trying to turn back the tide.

We are winning and keeping clean sheets with a CB pairing of Askou and Doc. If they continue to achieve that they will almost certainly keep their places, if they make mistakes the door will open for others. Instead of indulging in the sort of vindictive sniping that has cropped up in this thread let''s just enjoy our current run of form and hope that it continues on Monday.

[/quote]

Well I don''t agree that Doc particularly deserved to be dropped and excluded but I certainly respect this post. It''s an honest opinion that''s not being backed up by made up stats to prove it. But then Beaus is and honest poster. Doc certainly wasn''t the worst defender against Colchester, he was probably the best. (If there can be a best). He played well enough at Yeovil and Exeter but wasn''t his best at Brentford. Apart from his well documented slip against Sunderland he did a pretty good job. I personally wonder if Nelson would have done better against Kenwyn Jones.

I would have thought if any defender deserved to be dropped after those early season games it would have been Otsemebor for Spillane but that didn''t happen until he was injured. The changes Lambert brought about in midfield made a huge difference but we still shipped goals through defensive errors and I cite the two goals against Wycombe and the two against Charlton. When the changes in midfield were complimented by an enforced change at right back and the enforced change bringing back Ginger Pele we have looked extremely solid.

However I get the feeling from the grudging acceptance of Doc on this board that the knives will be back out at the first mistake. Well I think we should understand that all clubs concede goals through defensive mistakes, even Manchester United. I think we should realise that all defenders give away fouls in defensive positions. I only saw the TV highlights from Carlisle but Askou made more mistakes than Doc but they haven''t been mentioned on here. Now I am not criticising Askou because I accept that on TV, especially on highlights, a false opinion can be formed. But I would have been happy for Askou to have made sure that Dobie didn''t get away and have virtually a one on one with their keeper when he committed Docs bear hug but still let the player get away from him.

But I fear the next slip, foul or misplaced pass will result in a good honest professional, who wants to play for our club, being villified once more by the fans.

 

[/quote]And if the Doc had made the error that Askou made for the first goal against Wycombe people would have gone absolutely mental.  I''ve said it before, and I''ll say it again, if anyone is going to cost us at vital times this season it will be Askou, who is the biggest liability we''ve had in a long while.