Its been a weird season

[Samwam27 611]

We've had lengthy injuries to Sainz, Sarg and Rowe, yet all have done fantastically well and Sarg, Sara n Rowe have 12+ goals.each. Sainz has scored some beauties

Weve had a dire spell where literally any other club would have sacked their manager based on performances. Little old.Norwich stuck with Wagner.

We finally got rid of Webber after the longest of departures, and i cant tell if its Knappers arrival, the return of player or somohow Wagner that.has seen our upturn in results 2nd half of the season.

And we're mathmatically in the playoffs without playing well, and yet now in 5th because of other teams performing worse.

I cant see.us winning the playoffs yet its the sort of season where we'll do just that.

And after all this there's something in me that still can't get behind Wagner totally 

 

Edited April 28, 2024 by Samwam27
Error

[hogesar 10,949]

We've played well in plenty of games in the second half of the season and if taking more points than any other club in the second half of the season isn't enough for you to get behind Wagner and the team then perhaps it explains why the atmosphere has been so dire in most games.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

We are also on our longest run without a loss at Carrow Road in a season since the 80's yet are only 5th.

 

Reallly has been a weird one

Edited April 28, 2024 by cambridgeshire canary

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,073]

3 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

We've had lengthy injuries to Sainz, Sarg and Rowe, yet all have done fantastically well and Sarg, Sara n Rowe have 12+ goals.each. Sainz has scored some beauties

Weve had a dire spell where literally any other club would have sacked their manager based on performances. Little old.Norwich stuck with Wagner.

We finally got rid of Webber after the longest of departures, and i cant tell if its Knappers arrival, the return of player or somohow Wagner that.has seen our upturn in results 2nd half of the season.

And we're mathmatically in the playoffs without playing well, and yet now in 5th because of other teams performing worse.

I cant see.us winning the playoffs yet its the sort of season where we'll do just that.

And after all this there's something in me that still can't get behind Wagner totally 

 

It certainly is interesting that the upturn almost coincided with Webber's departure .

Coincidence? Maybe, probably more to do with returning injuries to the likes of Sargent and Sainz.

Who knows what kind of influence he was having and would have had if Knapper not brought his start date forward ,around the club and Colney, positive or negative?

...but there's no doubt that Webber's mere presence was a cause for antagonism and a target for fans at matches.

At least him departing removed that element of the bad atmosphere it was creating at games

Edited April 28, 2024 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[sonyc 6,145]

13 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It certainly is interesting that the upturn almost coincided with Webber's departure .

Coincidence? Maybe, probably more to do with returning injuries to the likes of Sargent and Sainz.

Who knows what kind of influence he was having and would have had if Knapper not brought his start date forward ,around the club and Colney, positive or negative?

...but there's no doubt that Webber's mere presence was a cause for antagonism and a target for fans for at matches.

At least him departing removed that element of the bad atmosphere it was creating at games

I agree with you entirely about Webber's departure being a big influence on the mood around. I think it's been positive for Wagner too.

Also, it has been an odd season but one full of interest nevertheless. And as the other thread states Wagner deserves a lot of praise and credit.

I posted in the match thread yesterday that I have now reached a position of thinking we should make a change for next season. It would be tough on Wagner but also  a very un-Norwich thing to do. It would  make for a more strategic approach. But I've slowly begun to believe it's what a forward thinking club ought to do. Not to do it from a panic following poor results.

The season looks like it's been a successful one and I'm delighted for Wagner however. I was never a loud spokesman for us dismissing him but did feel his tactical approach was wrong. I would have been happy for a change earlier on. I think DW has changed a lot of people's minds which is a rare thing in itself.

Following the club for decades just makes you appreciate seasons that are 'interesting'!

Edited April 28, 2024 by sonyc

[Conrad 272]

54 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

We've had lengthy injuries to Sainz, Sarg and Rowe, yet all have done fantastically well and Sarg, Sara n Rowe have 12+ goals.each. Sainz has scored some beauties

Weve had a dire spell where literally any other club would have sacked their manager based on performances. Little old.Norwich stuck with Wagner.

We finally got rid of Webber after the longest of departures, and i cant tell if its Knappers arrival, the return of player or somohow Wagner that.has seen our upturn in results 2nd half of the season.

And we're mathmatically in the playoffs without playing well, and yet now in 5th because of other teams performing worse.

I cant see.us winning the playoffs yet its the sort of season where we'll do just that.

And after all this there's something in me that still can't get behind Wagner totally 

 

So if we have had some lengthy injuries (we did, but so have other teams) and the return of such players as Sainz, Sarg and Rowe has led to an improvement in results, then is that improvement down to the players rather than anything that Wagner did - since the loss of those players resulted in a drop from 2nd to 17th? If that is the case then it does not really matter if we replace Wagner or not? 

For what it is worth (not a lot), I feel that Wagner will be gone at the end of this season wherever we finish. Somehow I don't get the impression that Wagner and Knapper are a good fit and there is only one winner there. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,334]

56 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We've played well in plenty of games in the second half of the season and if taking more points than any other club in the second half of the season isn't enough for you to get behind Wagner and the team then perhaps it explains why the atmosphere has been so dire in most games.

Exactly this. These fans who still want him gone at the end of the season do my head in. Bearing in mind the injuries we had in the autumn and losing Pukki, Krul, Aarons and Omabamidele at the start of the season he's done remarkably well. Get behind him coz football isn't just turning up and winning the championship. It's sometimes about finding a way to get results and having a bit of spirit to get through the bad times. This team and manager have that. We're not always going to have the best players in the league and it's not the correct decision just to fire a manager everytime we're not exceptional at this level.

Wagner isn't Pep, or Klopp, or Ancelotti, but neither is he Glenn Roeder, Peter Grant or Bryan Gunn. He's decent and we could do (and have done) far, far worse.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I agree with you entirely about Webber's departure being a big influence on the mood around. I think it's been positive for Wagner too.

Also, it has been an odd season but one full of interest nevertheless. And as the other thread states Wagner deserves a lot of praise and credit.

I posted in the match thread yesterday that I have now reached a position of thinking we should make a change for next season. It would be tough on Wagner but also  a very un-Norwich thing to do. It would  make for a more strategic approach. But I've slowly begun to believe it's what a forward thinking club ought to do. Not to do it from a panic following poor results.

The season looks like it's been a successful one and I'm delighted for Wagner however. I was never a loud spokesman for us dismissing him but did feel his tactical approach was wrong. I would have been happy for a change earlier on. I think DW has changed a lot of people's minds which is a rare thing in itself.

Following the club for decades just makes you appreciate seasons that are 'interesting'!

There's a part of me that would not be too surprised if in the years to come former players and staff all come out with stories and negative things to say about Webber. Think you're right about the mood in the club, with players and with fans did seem to improve when Webber left.

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

8 minutes ago, Conrad said:

So if we have had some lengthy injuries (we did, but so have other teams) and the return of such players as Sainz, Sarg and Rowe has led to an improvement in results, then is that improvement down to the players rather than anything that Wagner did - since the loss of those players resulted in a drop from 2nd to 17th? If that is the case then it does not really matter if we replace Wagner or not? 

For what it is worth (not a lot), I feel that Wagner will be gone at the end of this season wherever we finish. Somehow I don't get the impression that Wagner and Knapper are a good fit and there is only one winner there. 

Yes that has blurred the situation somewhat but it's fair to say any team would miss their best players. Likewise we haven't really missed Rowe or Hernandez so Wagner deserves much credit in managing that.

I'm still open minded about Knapper but Webber fans would have soon been on his back had results not improved the way they did when he arrived. He was right to keep Wagner. There's pretty much no doubt had Webber remained the atmosphere would have been poisonous and quite likely to have led to the dismissal of Wagner.

 

 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,960]

26 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It certainly is interesting that the upturn almost coincided with Webber's departure .

Coincidence? Maybe, probably more to do with returning injuries to the likes of Sargent and Sainz.

Who knows what kind of influence he was having and would have had if Knapper not brought his start date forward ,around the club and Colney, positive or negative?

...but there's no doubt that Webber's mere presence was a cause for antagonism and a target for fans for at matches.

At least him departing removed that element of the bad atmosphere it was creating at games

I was in my local coffee shop the other day and, much to my surprise, I noticed that on the table near by was sitting Wagner and Knapper deep in conversation. There was lots of shaking of heads and raised voices so I made my way to a table close by to see what was going on. The language was quite coarse, with words like 'b3llend', 'f*cking d1ckhead' and 'complete and utter w*nk-stain' being thrown about. They were discussing what looked like some kind of leaflet, which I tried to get a better look at, but I couldn't see it very well. Anyway, after about 15 minutes they had finished their lattes and baked apple and cinnamon slices and went off to the Lion and Castle for a swift half. Luckily, they left the leaflet behind for me to have a gander at. Well! I couldn't believe my eyes! It was a leaflet promoting a new one-man. The title of this once in a lifetime seminar?

Stuart Webber:  A guide to being a 21^st century crime-fighter

“One man’s mission to save the world’s footballing youth using only his over-inflated ego.”

“The hero we didn’t want and certainly didn’t need.”

“Like a modern day Spiderman, he shoots not webs but verbal diarrhoea at whoever is in earshot.”

“Some people call him the ultimate weapon – most think he’s just a tool.”

OTBC

[sonyc 6,145]

19 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Exactly this. These fans who still want him gone at the end of the season do my head in. Bearing in mind the injuries we had in the autumn and losing Pukki, Krul, Aarons and Omabamidele at the start of the season he's done remarkably well. Get behind him coz football isn't just turning up and winning the championship. It's sometimes about finding a way to get results and having a bit of spirit to get through the bad times. This team and manager have that. We're not always going to have the best players in the league and it's not the correct decision just to fire a manager everytime we're not exceptional at this level.

Wagner isn't Pep, or Klopp, or Ancelotti, but neither is he Glenn Roeder, Peter Grant or Bryan Gunn. He's decent and we could do (and have done) far, far worse.

You can support your team, always get behind the manager, wish him to do well. That's what being a good fan means. You can still want your club to be better for it's longer term interests. Different fans will have lots of opinions. It isn't always the right choice to fire a manager. Having a clear vision about what you want to do, then recruiting with that in mind is not a harmful thing to do in my opinion, even if it might "do your head in". 

If we keep Wagner I will also support him and I wouldn't mind that. Yet, as I've posted, I can see another way of doing things too and that would be my preference. Managers get moved on because of results but a huge influence is the mood of supporters. I think at times it's good to take out some of the emotions from decisions. It could still be wrong of course over time. The pre season will be interesting. That's all I ever want from supporting my club whatever league they are in and whoever is manager. The new ownership as well as SD for me offers a really important juncture for the club and I want to see something from it. Webber initially brought in a vision and galvanised the club with Farke's appointment. It was new and gave us many good years. There's no reason not to try again.

Anyway,....lots of ways to support your team.

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

As they say the table doesn’t lie ... Well not after 45 games anyway.

I'm sure with hindsight we'd of had several more points.... perhaps even threatening the autos of we'd of had a lesser run of injuries.

Given the three that came down, and barring disaster on Saturday finishing in the play-offs is really as much as ANY manager could of done this season

So whatever happens next, this season must be classed as a successful, possibly spectacularly so, and for that Wagner deserves the credit.

 

[Mengo 856]

1 hour ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

I was in my local coffee shop the other day and, much to my surprise, I noticed that on the table near by was sitting Wagner and Knapper deep in conversation. There was lots of shaking of heads and raised voices so I made my way to a table close by to see what was going on. The language was quite coarse, with words like 'b3llend', 'f*cking d1ckhead' and 'complete and utter w*nk-stain' being thrown about. They were discussing what looked like some kind of leaflet, which I tried to get a better look at, but I couldn't see it very well. Anyway, after about 15 minutes they had finished their lattes and baked apple and cinnamon slices and went off to the Lion and Castle for a swift half. Luckily, they left the leaflet behind for me to have a gander at. Well! I couldn't believe my eyes! It was a leaflet promoting a new one-man. The title of this once in a lifetime seminar?

Stuart Webber:  A guide to being a 21^st century crime-fighter

“One man’s mission to save the world’s footballing youth using only his over-inflated ego.”

“The hero we didn’t want and certainly didn’t need.”

“Like a modern day Spiderman, he shoots not webs but verbal diarrhoea at whoever is in earshot.”

“Some people call him the ultimate weapon – most think he’s just a tool.”

OTBC

🎯💯 PRICELESS. 

[sgncfc 1,345]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

You can support your team, always get behind the manager, wish him to do well. That's what being a good fan means. You can still want your club to be better for it's longer term interests. Different fans will have lots of opinions. It isn't always the right choice to fire a manager. Having a clear vision about what you want to do, then recruiting with that in mind is not a harmful thing to do in my opinion, even if it might "do your head in". 

If we keep Wagner I will also support him and I wouldn't mind that. Yet, as I've posted, I can see another way of doing things too and that would be my preference. Managers get moved on because of results but a huge influence is the mood of supporters. I think at times it's good to take out some of the emotions from decisions. It could still be wrong of course over time. The pre season will be interesting. That's all I ever want from supporting my club whatever league they are in and whoever is manager. The new ownership as well as SD for me offers a really important juncture for the club and I want to see something from it. Webber initially brought in a vision and galvanised the club with Farke's appointment. It was new and gave us many good years. There's no reason not to try again.

Anyway,....lots of ways to support your team.

I also don't rate Wagner as a manager and would prefer him gone - that won't stop me supporting the team. In my mind, the two are not linked. Equally, there are players I don't rate, but that doesn't stop me supporting the team either.

Personally, I don't think Wagner sets his teams up to play the type of football I want to watch. His substitutions and tactics are extremely one dimensional, which allows teams like Bristol City and Swansea to nullify us so effectively and has also led to the loss of countless points over the season, even allowing for injuries. I'm sure he's a very nice man, I just don't think he's very bright as he keeps asking his players to do things they're not very good at and the management of the resources he has had available this season overall has been, and continues to be, very poor. His senior and better players have dug him out of holes at least a dozen times by doing something spectacular.

I'd prefer it if Wagner moved on, irrespective of how we do in the playoffs. Results are not everything to me, performances are. And ours generally haven't been good enough this season. If we were, by some miracle, to go up through the playoffs we will be torn apart with Wagner in charge. 

[sonyc 6,145]

26 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I also don't rate Wagner as a manager and would prefer him gone - that won't stop me supporting the team. In my mind, the two are not linked. Equally, there are players I don't rate, but that doesn't stop me supporting the team either.

Personally, I don't think Wagner sets his teams up to play the type of football I want to watch. His substitutions and tactics are extremely one dimensional, which allows teams like Bristol City and Swansea to nullify us so effectively and has also led to the loss of countless points over the season, even allowing for injuries. I'm sure he's a very nice man, I just don't think he's very bright as he keeps asking his players to do things they're not very good at and the management of the resources he has had available this season overall has been, and continues to be, very poor. His senior and better players have dug him out of holes at least a dozen times by doing something spectacular.

I'd prefer it if Wagner moved on, irrespective of how we do in the playoffs. Results are not everything to me, performances are. And ours generally haven't been good enough this season. If we were, by some miracle, to go up through the playoffs we will be torn apart with Wagner in charge. 

Agree with a lot of that. Perhaps a Border Collie thing 😉. Many times I've bemoaned some really odd tactics and decisions - of course it's the same with most managers. Agree about those "spectacular" events too. Sainz and Sara have performed especially well, not to forget Sargent. I think we are a good team and no-one would wish to play us in the play offs. And that's because we have an unusual combination of special players and a very determined player group.

I believe we are best defending by using our best weapons (our attacking players) ...and when we are on the front foot we look the part. Too many games have been 'half' games where at some points we have disappeared. Often I've not known what to expect each week. The last 6 games or so have been more encouraging. 

I don't think Wagner was helped at all in the  transfer window. 

If we even have a chance of getting someone who is a number 2 at a Premier League club or with that kind of experience (Cuesta being a great example) I would love us to do it. You get the sense that it won't happen. 

I realised when I posted that my view wouldn't be so popular because we really have a chance now of promotion (at least a 25% chance). And that must be a huge credit to Wagner. I'm looking however much more over the next 5 years and see the new ownership coming as a big opportunity for new ideas. I just don't feel, from what I've seen over the 40 plus games this season, that DW is the answer. 

Edited April 28, 2024 by sonyc

[Dean Coneys boots 1,550]

Webber departing seems to have made a massive difference- that may or may not be fair- but wow. 

[ridgeman 159]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

Agree with a lot of that. Perhaps a Border Collie thing 😉. Many times I've bemoaned some really odd tactics and decisions - of course it's the same with most managers. Agree about those "spectacular" events too. Sainz and Sara have performed especially well, not to forget Sargent. I think we are a good team and no-one would wish to play us in the play offs. And that's because we have an unusual combination of special players and a very determined player group.

I believe we are best defending by using our best weapons (our attacking players) ...and when we are on the front foot we look the part. Too many games have been 'half' games where at some points we have disappeared. Often I've not known what to expect each week. The last 6 games or so have been more encouraging. 

I don't think Wagner was helped at all in the  transfer window. 

If we even have a chance of getting someone who is a number 2 at a Premier League club or with that kind of experience (Cuesta being a great example) I would love us to do it. You get the sense that it won't happen. 

I realised when I posted that my view wouldn't be so popular because we really have a chance now of promotion (at least a 25% chance). And that must be a huge credit to Wagner. I'm looking however much more over the next 5 years and see the new ownership coming as a big opportunity for new ideas. I just don't feel, from what I've seen over the 40 plus games this season, that DW is the answer. 

Totally agree

[Fen Canary 1,463]

8 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

We've had lengthy injuries to Sainz, Sarg and Rowe, yet all have done fantastically well and Sarg, Sara n Rowe have 12+ goals.each. Sainz has scored some beauties

Weve had a dire spell where literally any other club would have sacked their manager based on performances. Little old.Norwich stuck with Wagner.

We finally got rid of Webber after the longest of departures, and i cant tell if its Knappers arrival, the return of player or somohow Wagner that.has seen our upturn in results 2nd half of the season.

And we're mathmatically in the playoffs without playing well, and yet now in 5th because of other teams performing worse.

I cant see.us winning the playoffs yet its the sort of season where we'll do just that.

And after all this there's something in me that still can't get behind Wagner totally 

 

You don’t end up 5th in the league without playing well. Trying to claim we’re only where we are due to the failings of others is nonsense, we’re 5th in the league because we’ve been the 5th best team over the course of the season. I’ll agree it’s been done in a strange manner with two spells of title winning form and with one of relegation material sandwiched in between, but we’re in the playoffs on merit.

I’m not confident we’ll win the playoffs, I think whoever finishes 3rd will be slight favourites but to me if we’ve finished top 6 especially with the injuries we’ve had then that’s a successful season 

[Well b back 3,653]

Weren’t most of those players mentioned plus Gunn and Sara signed by Webber ? The manager was also brought in by Webber.

Not saying Webbers time was not up, just stating the obvious.

[Well b back 3,653]

2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

You don’t end up 5th in the league without playing well. Trying to claim we’re only where we are due to the failings of others is nonsense, we’re 5th in the league because we’ve been the 5th best team over the course of the season. I’ll agree it’s been done in a strange manner with two spells of title winning form and with one of relegation material sandwiched in between, but we’re in the playoffs on merit.

I’m not confident we’ll win the playoffs, I think whoever finishes 3rd will be slight favourites but to me if we’ve finished top 6 especially with the injuries we’ve had then that’s a successful season 

I am pretty sure that had we have kept a fit side we would have been close to if not in the autos.

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

I seem to recall Sir Alex Ferguson had difficult start at United - lots of doubts despite slowly improving results. The rest as they say is history. Nearly sacked was it '89?

I just wonder.....

Edited April 29, 2024 by Yellow Fever
"Three years of excuses and it's still crap ... ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[74][75] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffer

[Samwam27 611]

18 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

You don’t end up 5th in the league without playing well. Trying to claim we’re only where we are due to the failings of others is nonsense, we’re 5th in the league because we’ve been the 5th best team over the course of the season. I’ll agree it’s been done in a strange manner with two spells of title winning form and with one of relegation material sandwiched in between, but we’re in the playoffs on merit.

I’m not confident we’ll win the playoffs, I think whoever finishes 3rd will be slight favourites but to me if we’ve finished top 6 especially with the injuries we’ve had then that’s a successful season 

It goes without saying, or to put it a other way, i didnt state the obvious that weve ammassed enough points from results to put us 5th, because that is obvious.

At no point did i say were only in 5th because 20 odd teams have been worse.

I said we're in 5th currently and as a result of others performing worse e.g. wba

  Everyone around us, including Leicester have had real wobbly spells,.which is natural. Weve had an i incredible 2nd have of the season, but yet even with Bristol C and Swansea we havent been able.to finish the job off, and thats why its been a weird season. For every great result (wba, preston away, ipswich) weve then not followed it up with strong performanes.

We are where we are, i like.others couldnt have imagined we'd make the playoffs so all credit to wagner, knapper and the players.

Bizarre and freaky results aside in the last week we're in the playoffs and have that 1 in 4 chance now of reaching the promised land.

Its still been a weird season

 

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

17 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

It goes without saying, or to put it a other way, i didnt state the obvious that weve ammassed enough points from results to put us 5th, because that is obvious.

At no point did i say were only in 5th because 20 odd teams have been worse.

I said we're in 5th currently and as a result of others performing worse e.g. wba

  Everyone around us, including Leicester have had real wobbly spells,.which is natural. Weve had an i incredible 2nd have of the season, but yet even with Bristol C and Swansea we havent been able.to finish the job off, and thats why its been a weird season. For every great result (wba, preston away, ipswich) weve then not followed it up with strong performanes.

We are where we are, i like.others couldnt have imagined we'd make the playoffs so all credit to wagner, knapper and the players.

Bizarre and freaky results aside in the last week we're in the playoffs and have that 1 in 4 chance now of reaching the promised land.

Its still been a weird season

 

We have 73 points with a last tricky game to play yet are almost certainly in the play-offs finishing with anywhere between 73...76 points.

Its actually a very typical number of points for 6th so it's not really because others have 'blown up'. Most were saying 74 is the usual target.

What will be a bit unusual is third place being 90 plus!

Come on Coventry!

Edited April 29, 2024 by Yellow Fever

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

20 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I seem to recall Sir Alex Ferguson had difficult start at United - lots of doubts despite slowly improving results. The rest as they say is history. Nearly sacked was it '89?

I just wonder.....

I feel confident in saying that David Wagner is not as good a manager as Alex Ferguson.

He is much, much less of a c*nt, though

[BigFish 2,330]

17 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

It goes without saying, or to put it a other way, i didnt state the obvious that weve ammassed enough points from results to put us 5th, because that is obvious.

At no point did i say were only in 5th because 20 odd teams have been worse.

I said we're in 5th currently and as a result of others performing worse e.g. wba

  Everyone around us, including Leicester have had real wobbly spells,.which is natural. Weve had an i incredible 2nd have of the season, but yet even with Bristol C and Swansea we havent been able.to finish the job off, and thats why its been a weird season. For every great result (wba, preston away, ipswich) weve then not followed it up with strong performanes.

We are where we are, i like.others couldnt have imagined we'd make the playoffs so all credit to wagner, knapper and the players.

Bizarre and freaky results aside in the last week we're in the playoffs and have that 1 in 4 chance now of reaching the promised land.

Its still been a weird season

 

Nothing weird about this season really. The team and management have done well and if a play-off place had been offered pre-season or during the bad spell most would have taken it. The side have limitations but have proved worthy of a top 6 place. On our budget that would seem about right.

If you want weird though, look at some of the posting on here 🙂