Coventry fans pride

[Yellow Fever 3,813]

3 hours ago, Google Bot said:

VAR has redefined the offside rule, it's purpose was to prevent players seeking an unfair advantage, of which this isn't.  It's also redefined the handball rule.

The end point will be AI officiating, and thus more dumbing down of people skills.  All coming to a workplace near you!

AI would be an improvement actually. Could build in a little wobble room and be in real time too! Consistent.

[rock bus 854]

23 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

The Lino didn’t give it because Level is Onside.

What is the point of VAR overturning an on field decision? Not fit for purpose, as we said two seasons ago about the Pukki decision. Nothings changed. Also VAR shouldn’t be available if it’s not universal across the whole competition - EPL are welcome to it! 

I know we are quick to knock officails but you have to say the lineman is perfectly placed here. Can see why he didnt give offside and I presume the point about VAR being for obvious errors doesnt apply to offside. This clearly is not an obvious and clear error.

[sonyc 5,541]

I found the whole thing deeply depressing. The complete joy of the underdog winning after one of the most amazing cup comebacks ever (3 goals in the last 20 minutes and then a winner in added time of Extra Time) and then the disbelief at that decision. The so-called 'magic' of the cup! But someone decided Man Utd needed a chance to be in the final by drawing on a line so close. It could been drawn inside the boot of the attacking player who wasn't actually moving forward.

It's the integrity of the game that's been lost not just Coventry City in the semi's. I think 99% of genuine fans in the country were rooting for the underdog. The soul of the game is surely almost gone, save for the lower leagues. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,294]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I found the whole thing deeply depressing. The complete joy of the underdog winning after one of the most amazing cup comebacks ever (3 goals in the last 20 minutes and then a winner in added time of Extra Time) and then the disbelief at that decision. The so-called 'magic' of the cup! But someone decided Man Utd needed a chance to be in the final by drawing on a line so close. It could been drawn inside the boot of the attacking player who wasn't actually moving forward.

It's the integrity of the game that's been lost not just Coventry City in the semi's. I think 99% of genuine fans in the country were rooting for the underdog. The soul of the game is surely almost gone, save for the lower leagues. 

A historic moment erased. A decision that epitomises the soul of football dying, caused by VAR.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

56 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

The Lino didn’t give it because Level is Onside.

What is the point of VAR overturning an on field decision? Not fit for purpose, as we said two seasons ago about the Pukki decision. Nothings changed. Also VAR shouldn’t be available if it’s not universal across the whole competition - EPL are welcome to it! 

Say Im way off if you like, but I think that Pukki decision had a huge affect on him. Scored a fantastic goal, had it taken away from him - looked troubled ever afterwards. How a striker keeps himself onside now I will never know

[ricardo 7,395]

33 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I found the whole thing deeply depressing. The complete joy of the underdog winning after one of the most amazing cup comebacks ever (3 goals in the last 20 minutes and then a winner in added time of Extra Time) and then the disbelief at that decision. The so-called 'magic' of the cup! But someone decided Man Utd needed a chance to be in the final by drawing on a line so close. It could been drawn inside the boot of the attacking player who wasn't actually moving forward.

It's the integrity of the game that's been lost not just Coventry City in the semi's. I think 99% of genuine fans in the country were rooting for the underdog. The soul of the game is surely almost gone, save for the lower leagues. 

Would have been a nice story but the fact remains that by the laws in place he WAS offside.

[Indy 3,309]

Coventry robbed, it’s clear that this VAR offside is just not correct, you can’t draw two lines between the players in that picture, you could move one millimetre and he’d be onside. No room for error especially as when should the flag gone up, as the ball makes contact with the player passing or when it has forwards motion? It’s all open to the VAR had that been a Man U goal I actually think they would have given it and drawn the lines the frame in favour! VAR is utterly ****e!

Also Bassaka’s knee is ahead of his boot yet the line is drawn to through his boot and even that looks as though it’s not at the end of his boot! It’s crazy that! I hate Manure & City both are the reason football in this country has become so boring! Buy the league and then by complaining so much change our traditional cup format! 

Edited April 22 by Indy

[Midlands Yellow 4,024]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

Coventry robbed, it’s clear that this VAR offside is just not correct, you can’t draw two lines between the players in that picture, you could move one millimetre and he’d be onside. No room for error especially as when has the flag gone up, as the ball makes contact with the player passing or when it has forwards motion? It’s all open to the VAR had that been a Man U goal I actually think they would have given it and drawn the lines the frame in favour! VAR is utterly ****e!

Robins was so classy in his post match interview. Compare him to Russell Martin who throws his toys out every time when Southampton lose. 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

51 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Would have been a nice story but the fact remains that by the laws in place he WAS offside.

I still think that's very debatable...

Whatever, it ruined a great game, and if I was a Coventry fan, I would feel very hardly done by.

[rock bus 854]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Robins was so classy in his post match interview. Compare him to Russell Martin who throws his toys out every time when Southampton lose. 

Whilst I'd normally agree, Robins threw his toys out of the pram when they lost to us this season. He showed a lack of class and accused us of deliberately targeting one of their players (we didnt...Sainz was just being Sainz!). I guess it was after the fuss over Wagner's Coventry not sexy comments but thought Robins could have shown some humility and recognised we were the better team and deserved to win.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 hour ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

I still think that's very debatable...

Whatever, it ruined a great game, and if I was a Coventry fan, I would feel very hardly done by.

 

Its not debatable at all,  you see decisions like this in the Premier League every week. Yesterday there was one just as close in the Fulham Liverpool game. In this case Jotta was narrowly onside whereas the Coventry player in the FA Cup match was narrowly offside.

Unless you believe they are sorting out frames and drawing lines with which to manufacture a decision they want (which some people seem to believe), then you have to accept that there will always be close decisions that you may come out on the wrong side of.

[Midlands Yellow 4,024]

23 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Whilst I'd normally agree, Robins threw his toys out of the pram when they lost to us this season. He showed a lack of class and accused us of deliberately targeting one of their players (we didnt...Sainz was just being Sainz!). I guess it was after the fuss over Wagner's Coventry not sexy comments but thought Robins could have shown some humility and recognised we were the better team and deserved to win.

We definitely roughed up Sakamoto that day under Wagner’s orders I believe. I’m not complaining mind, for too long we’d been far too soft in that area. 

[hogesar 9,711]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

Its not debatable at all,  you see decisions like this in the Premier League every week. Yesterday there was one just as close in the Fulham Liverpool game. In this case Jotta was narrowly onside whereas the Coventry player in the FA Cup match was narrowly offside.

Unless you believe they are sorting out frames and drawing lines with which to manufacture a decision they want (which some people seem to believe), then you have to accept that there will always be close decisions that you may come out on the wrong side of.

Because of the poor technology used we don't know that he actually was offside, just that in the individual frame used, he may have been.

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Robins was so classy in his post match interview. Compare him to Russell Martin who throws his toys out every time when Southampton lose. 

 

23 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Whilst I'd normally agree, Robins threw his toys out of the pram when they lost to us this season. He showed a lack of class and accused us of deliberately targeting one of their players (we didnt...Sainz was just being Sainz!). I guess it was after the fuss over Wagner's Coventry not sexy comments but thought Robins could have shown some humility and recognised we were the better team and deserved to win.

They both seem to have had humour bypasses.

Just the sort of people you wouldn’t want to get trapped in a corner with at a party.

[nutty nigel 7,556]

The sentiment behind the thread was the fans in the stadium. And it was those very fans that were shafted by VAR. Never mind abolishing replays VAR has already finally killed off the magic of the cup. VAR shouldn’t even be part of the FA Cup. How can you have a competition which has different rules for different games? The competition should have one set of rules for all clubs from start to finish.

Having read the thread about the Forest game I thought I’d watch MOTD to see for myself. I learned that they’ve changed the rules mid season. Apparently something that was a penalty in the autumn isn’t a penalty in the spring! How does that work? Surely the competition should have the same rules all season?

Bringing in VAR has opened a can of worms and now the worms are running amok. Same thing happened when division one of the EFL were allowed to break away.

 

 

[ron obvious 1,514]

21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Because of the poor technology used we don't know that he actually was offside, just that in the individual frame used, he may have been.

As I've said before, that is the whole problem with VAR. Unless they are allowing for measurement error - which they don't appear to be doing & has certainly not been mentioned - then these decisions are meaningless.

If you incorporated the known inaccuracy in the measuring devices into the images then you would be presented with a thick line representing the range of relative possible positions of the ball & players involved. Since the rule states that the attacker be given the benefit of doubt then the most favourable limiting line edge should be used.

The assumption that any measurement can be 100% accurate is nonsense. But that is what they appear to expect us to believe.

Edited April 22 by ron obvious

[ricardo 7,395]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Because of the poor technology used we don't know that he actually was offside, just that in the individual frame used, he may have been.

The point is that a line is drawn and one side of it you are on and one side you are off. Its really that simple.

Even if you make a rule where you need at least 10cm of seperation you will still get instances where its nine and a half and people will still moan. Wherever a line is drawn there will be cases that are very marginal but its still either onside or offside, the distance is irrelevant.

The fact remains that by the rules and the technolgy he was offside.

It would have been a lovely story and we would all like to have seen David beat Goliath but it didn't happen.

I think the Forest penalty claims are at least debatable and because we all have our own subjective viewon what is a foul, there will inevitably be different opinions. At least with the VAR offside we can see the lines.

[alex_ncfc 662]

7 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The point is that a line is drawn and one side of it you are on and one side you are off. Its really that simple.

Even if you make a rule where you need at least 10cm of seperation you will still get instances where its nine and a half and people will still moan. Wherever a line is drawn there will be cases that are very marginal but its still either onside or offside, the distance is irrelevant.

The fact remains that by the rules and the technolgy he was offside.

 

What about when they are drawing the lines to suit their desired outcome?

 

 

Edited April 22 by alex_ncfc

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, alex_ncfc said:

 

What about when they are drawing the lines to suit their desired outcome?

 

 

Don't  be silly.

[Coneys Knee 979]

34 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Because of the poor technology used we don't know that he actually was offside, just that in the individual frame used, he may have been.

Exactly this. 
 

Where is the evidence that this was the position of both players when the ball was kicked? What constitutes “when the ball is played”? Is it when contact is made between the passer’s boot and the ball, or as it’s just left the players boot? Or in the case of the Pukki “goal” when the ball was two feet into its journey? How can you have an offside rule working on such fine margins with so many variables.

It’s a joke. That goal yesterday, was just that - a goal, fair and square. There is no legitimate argument for it being disallowed and every football league, and premier league club should, this morning be writing to have VAR scrapped or at the very least have its use completely reviewed and overhauled. Disgusting. 
 

I feel savage about it and I have no allegiance towards Coventry whatsoever. God knows how I’d be feeling if this was us!

[alex_ncfc 662]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Don't  be silly.

I don't think it's being silly at all.

I do think it's being silly for anyone to even suggest that that goal scored at the other end would be chalked off for the same reason.

They would never have had the balls to chalk off a Man Utd winner as late as that, so that's what also makes a mockery of the entire thing.

[alex_ncfc 662]

Interesting view of the incident

 

[hogesar 9,711]

45 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

As I've said before, that is the whole problem with VAR. Unless they are allowing for measurement error - which they don't appear to be doing & has certainly not been mentioned - then these decisions are meaningless.

If you incorporated the known inaccuracy in the measuring devices into the images then you would be presented with a thick line representing the range of relative possible positions of the ball & players involved. Since the rule states that the attacker be given the benefit of doubt then the most favourable limiting line edge should be used.

The assumption that any measurement can be 100% accurate is nonsense. But that is what they appear to expect us to believe.

 

17 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

Exactly this. 
 

Where is the evidence that this was the position of both players when the ball was kicked? What constitutes “when the ball is played”? Is it when contact is made between the passer’s boot and the ball, or as it’s just left the players boot? Or in the case of the Pukki “goal” when the ball was two feet into its journey? How can you have an offside rule working on such fine margins with so many variables.

It’s a joke. That goal yesterday, was just that - a goal, fair and square. There is no legitimate argument for it being disallowed and every football league, and premier league club should, this morning be writing to have VAR scrapped or at the very least have its use completely reviewed and overhauled. Disgusting. 
 

I feel savage about it and I have no allegiance towards Coventry whatsoever. God knows how I’d be feeling if this was us!

Yeah agree with both of you. They're trying to be precise and scientifically accurate but using technology that is anything but. It's illogical. The drawing of lines is painful and seems inconsistent in itself.

Just scrap VAR. It's the easiest answer and ensures thar some degree of football is still for those actually making the effort to go to games.

[Samwam27 531]

I don't mind EPL and major Euro leagues having VAR. They are welcome to it. Let the big boys battle it out.

But imo VAR has destroyed the spirit of the FA Cup, where the minnows get to take on the giants in a 90min game. It's grass roots football verses the mega millions. Where lower leagues never get to expereince VAR, then it should be played in a neutral way, by that I mean without the technology, and just the officials officiating. That's what makes the FA Cup special.That's what minnows and lower league teams are used to.

Where technology made a decision about mere millimeters, in less than a split decision, in the final minute of extra time destroyed the magic and spirit of the FA Cup yesterday. If it was left to the officials neither the linesman or the Ref flagged/blew for offside, and thus technology ruined one of the most deserved and greatest comebacks ever known in the Cup's history.

 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

29 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

Interesting view of the incident

 

Good video 👍 and he makes a good point.

The studio would normally be dissecting this sort of controversy to the nth degree.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

Wonder how much money companies are going to be paying for adverts to be shown around a Man City v Man Utd cup final and how many eyes around the world will be watching compared to a Man City v Coventry final. 

The technology is flawed. Someone has to actually pick what frame they decide the ball leaves the players foot and as we've seen in a screenshot above sometimes the lines are drawn over the defenders foot and on the absolute tip of the attacking players boot. It can be manipulated to suit a desired outcome, it isn't just a case of being on or offside as there is still error involved and it's funny to me how it always seems to favour the bigger clubs or the more desirable outcome for broadcasters. 

Referee's aren't biased in general and there isn't some grand conspiracy against certain clubs. But with how much money flows in and out of football and the potential for big companies to lose or gain money or exposure based on tight decisions I think it would be very naive to assume that there isn't some fixing going on with tight disputable decisions in big games when there's money on the line for some powerful and influential people and companies. 

 

[sonyc 5,541]

44 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

Interesting view of the incident

 

From that video clip and the timing of the pass it looks genuinely onside to me! It was quite a brilliant goal. Worthy of any win in a semi final. Whoever the team was. 

An utter travesty.

Great find of a video. It gives a completely different perspective.

[Midlands Yellow 4,024]

So onside.

[Keith Scott 245]

Wasn't offside. If that was at the other end 100% it would have stood. These situations are clearly manipulated. It's right in front of our eyes. The game is corrupt, simple as. The question is how long can this corruption continue unnoticed/unchallenged.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

[duke63 545]

VAR is a solution to a problem that never was. It’s there to create controversy and social media discussion. That’s what TV and the money men want. 
but it’s destroying the spirit and enjoyment of the live sport.