Tzolis on his way to Bayern?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,724]

Well Farke did say he had potential to be world class..

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

At least we'll get our money back. The buy option in the loan deal is supposed to be roughly the price we paid for him, which I imagine will be triggered before Dusseldorf immediately sell him on for a quick profit.

[CANARYKING 639]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Well Farke did say he had potential to be world class..

Is he still our player and we get the fee ?

 

[Google Bot 3,278]

I'd be happy for him, but gutted for us.  It just flabbergasts me that we'd pick Springett, Onel & PP to go into a season ahead of him, and said it all throughout pre-season and beyond.

He's such a natural on the ball and as he matures his stocky build will make him a tough opponent.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

He'll become a prime example of where a lack of physicality means he doesn't quite hack it in the Championship or indeed England, but does excellently on the European mainland.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

24 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I'd be happy for him, but gutted for us.  It just flabbergasts me that we'd pick Springett, Onel & PP to go into a season ahead of him, and said it all throughout pre-season and beyond.

He's such a natural on the ball and as he matures his stocky build will make him a tough opponent.

You don't keep players who aren't happy here and have done nothing with the numerous opportunities given, do you?

He's been a massive flop for us - irrespective of how well he's now doing in a second division in Germany which many believe the general quality is poorer than what we face in this league. 

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You don't keep players who aren't happy here and have done nothing with the numerous opportunities given, do you?

We made him unhappy, simple.  Mis-managed and cashed in, that's the truth.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

Farke punished him for the penalty incident but would almost certainly have brought him back into the fold because he can spot talent when he sees it.

It was Dean Smith who played him for about 100 minutes in total during his 25+ games as our manager in the PL (mostly in five or ten minute slots at the end of games) and then announced he wouldn't even play him in the Championship so he had to be sent out on loan. a player who is now being tracked by some of Germany's top teams. Wow, great talent spotting, Dean. And what development of young potential. No wonder those giants of the game, Charlotte FC, head-hunted you.

By the time Wagner brought him back, I think the damage was done. It may have been a mistake not to keep him rather than Springett and Placheta, but I get the feeling Tzolis wanted a new start somewhere else and he also does not seem the kind of player who would fit naturally into a Wagner team. I suppose the loan to Dusseldorf was the best outcome by then for all concerned (although I obviously wish it hadn't included the right to buy).

So best of luck to Tzolis, whose young career was almost destroyed by the way he was mismanaged here, especially by Smith. No wonder he reportedly liked a Twitter post announcing that Smith had been sacked.

We've got Sainz now so all's well that ends well, I guess.  

 

Edited March 21 by canarybubbles

[Hairy Canary 704]

The buy out option may be there but Tzolis would also need to agree to the move to Düsseldorf for it to take place. With some of the big guys hovering around that might not be so straightforward if he prefers a move to one of those.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,276]

Genuinely shocked by this. I don’t blame Norwich for getting rid in the summer, from the bits I’d seen of him I couldn’t see a championship player in there let alone a player with the potential to play at one of the best clubs in the world.

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

4 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

The buy out option may be there but Tzolis would also need to agree to the move to Düsseldorf for it to take place. With some of the big guys hovering around that might not be so straightforward if he prefers a move to one of those.

In loans with options to buy, that's agreed as part of the initial deal. It's purely Düsseldorf's option to trigger it.

And as I said before, it's highly likely that Düsseldorf will trigger the option to flip him at a profit, so Tzolis is unlikely to stay there anyway. 

[Hairy Canary 704]

35 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In loans with options to buy, that's agreed as part of the initial deal. It's purely Düsseldorf's option to trigger it.

And as I said before, it's highly likely that Düsseldorf will trigger the option to flip him at a profit, so Tzolis is unlikely to stay there anyway. 

Thanks WWIAFTM, I hadn't realised that was the case.

I guess Tzolis had to agree his future wages and length of contract with Dusseldorf before he moved there on loan then. No wonder these things take so long to agree!  

[RobJames 881]

43 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In loans with options to buy, that's agreed as part of the initial deal. It's purely Düsseldorf's option to trigger it.

And as I said before, it's highly likely that Düsseldorf will trigger the option to flip him at a profit, so Tzolis is unlikely to stay there anyway. 

eh ?

If Duss could simply sell him, then why the current indecision ? It appears they are dependent upon promotion to fund the deal.

If it is as claimed, then it would be a simple short term loan to fund the deal. It would already be a 'done deal' so to speak.

The claim also assumes that Tzolis, who wants to play for Duss, would happily accept then being moved to another club, at the moment unknown. A ridiculous suggestion.

The new buying club will have his registration, but likely as, not his commitment - as seen with Rashica, Idah and Tzolis himself. You can also include Mumba, Buendia, Cantwell...

And the idea that a club handling £100m plus in contracts/fees etc that involve innumerable clauses, payments and bonuses did not take this possibly into account, is just plain daft.

 

 

[Hairy Canary 704]

God he is back isn’t he!
 

☹️
 

[Jimmy Raggatip 60]

I'm not sure why there's a struggle to comprehend the potential deal. These happen all the time when a loan player with a cheap obligation clause performs well on loan

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,276]

9 minutes ago, RobJames said:

eh ?

If Duss could simply sell him, then why the current indecision ? It appears they are dependent upon promotion to fund the deal.

If it is as claimed, then it would be a simple short term loan to fund the deal. It would already be a 'done deal' so to speak.

The claim also assumes that Tzolis, who wants to play for Duss, would happily accept then being moved to another club, at the moment unknown. A ridiculous suggestion.

The new buying club will have his registration, but likely as, not his commitment - as seen with Rashica, Idah and Tzolis himself. You can also include Mumba, Buendia, Cantwell...

And the idea that a club handling £100m plus in contracts/fees etc that involve innumerable clauses, payments and bonuses did not take this possibly into account, is just plain daft.

 

 

It really isn’t.

[Hairy Canary 704]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

I'm not sure why there's a struggle to comprehend the potential deal. These happen all the time when a loan player with a cheap obligation clause performs well on loan

I guess this is unusual because of Bayern sniffing around before Tzolis has signed permanently for Düsseldorf. Seems he has no option of saying no to a permanent deal with them in preference to a big wage increase with the German giants. And incidentally potentially a bigger fee for us.

[Capt. Pants 4,236]

No point him grizzle gutting about warming the bench should he go to Bayern because I can't see him being picked ahead of Sane and Davies.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

If he's more valuable than the buy out then Dusseldorf will find the money then sell him on immediately.   We won't benefit!   Fair play to him for his progress.   Another player we totally let down and mis-managed.   By the end of that first season we had already destroyed his confidence and he's clearly now getting it back.  We shouldn't have signed him because he was too young to be useful in the EPL at the time.     Not his fault of course, entirely Webbers.   

Edited March 21 by ged in the onion bag

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,316]

So, if he never wanted to leave and with the season he's had, who would give him a chance again next season if duss can't pay up? 

[cornish sam 954]

56 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

If he's more valuable than the buy out then Dusseldorf will find the money then sell him on immediately.   We won't benefit!   Fair play to him for his progress.   Another player we totally let down and mis-managed.   By the end of that first season we had already destroyed his confidence and he's clearly now getting it back.  We shouldn't have signed him because he was too young to be useful in the EPL at the time.     Not his fault of course, entirely Webbers.   

We may benefit as it wouldn't surprise me if there was a sell on clause included in the agreed transfer. To not have that on any deal involving a player like tzolis would certainly be remiss...

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

So, if he never wanted to leave and with the season he's had, who would give him a chance again next season if duss can't pay up? 

I'd love it, but there's not a hope in hell that Duss won't pay up - they're onto a winner here.

It'd be interesting to know if he's the sort of player that would fit Knapper's profile, though.

[Grando 260]

There is a hope in hell. If Düsseldorf don’t have the cash then they don’t have the cash!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Düsseldorf is one of the wealthiest cities in Germany, you'd think their club would find a way somehow.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

4 hours ago, RobJames said:

eh ?

If Duss could simply sell him, then why the current indecision ? It appears they are dependent upon promotion to fund the deal.

If it is as claimed, then it would be a simple short term loan to fund the deal. It would already be a 'done deal' so to speak.

The claim also assumes that Tzolis, who wants to play for Duss, would happily accept then being moved to another club, at the moment unknown. A ridiculous suggestion.

The new buying club will have his registration, but likely as, not his commitment - as seen with Rashica, Idah and Tzolis himself. You can also include Mumba, Buendia, Cantwell...

And the idea that a club handling £100m plus in contracts/fees etc that involve innumerable clauses, payments and bonuses did not take this possibly into account, is just plain daft.

OK, not sure where to start with this, but here goes...

Düsseldorf would surely have to be certain that there's a club out there willing to pay more than their option. A second tier German club is extremely unlikely to have €8m, give or take, to spend on a player and it'd be a stretch if they were to be promoted, which is possible but unlikely right now. Otherwise, they'd risk having to sell him on at a loss, or put their future at risk by making such a large investment, which they clearly wouldn't want to do. Unless there's that certainty of someone offering a quick profit, the deal almost certainly wouldn't happen.

You also claim that Tzolis might not be happy at being moved on straight away, or might not have the commitment should he move. The clubs who are being linked with him, and who have the money to afford him, are amongst Germany's biggest. The chances of him saying 'nah mate, I don't fancy Bayern, Dortmund or Leipzig, I'd rather stay at Düsseldorf' are nil. The 'ridiculous suggestion' is that he'd turn down such a club to stay at Düsseldorf.

Long story short, I'd be shocked if he plays for Düsseldorf next season. The only outside possibility of that happening would be if they got promoted and they wanted to be ambitious by spending big on Tzolis then keeping him. Realistically, the two options are that Düsseldorf sign him to flip him for a quick profit, or that Düsseldorf do not trigger the option and he returns here, in which case I'd say we're likely to sell him for a decent fee.

Edited March 21 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[canarybubbles 1,915]

I remember someone on here (sorry, can't remember who) saying that Tzolis 'knows where the goal is'. There's a website where you can see all of Dusseldorf's goals and this poster was right - get him into positions where he can score and he will.

Having said that, some of the defences he faces are pretty poor, but so were Cardiff's and Rotherham's.

I still don't think he would suit a Wagner team, though. Judging by those highlights, it seems that Dusseldorf are often happy for him to lurk on the left wing and not have to roam all over the pitch like Sainz does, for example. 

As for not being up to the physicality of the league, I doubt this. He's chunky and he's got four yellows this season, more than any other Dusseldorf player.

Overall, I still can't shake off the feeling that we wasted him and that, given time and encouragement, he would have improved from a poor first season in the same way that Sargent has.

We'll never know now.

Edited March 22 by canarybubbles

[Jim Smith 2,319]

16 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Genuinely shocked by this. I don’t blame Norwich for getting rid in the summer, from the bits I’d seen of him I couldn’t see a championship player in there let alone a player with the potential to play at one of the best clubs in the world.

 

I do blame us for fixing the fee in advance though. Stupid when it was obvious that he could show his potential there and we could have had a bidding war on our hands.

He was looking fitter and sharper in pre season. I thought it was strange they loaned him out just as he was looking like he might finally be ready to make an impact for us. 

[Paul101 93]

On 20/03/2024 at 22:22, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

At least we'll get our money back. The buy option in the loan deal is supposed to be roughly the price we paid for him, which I imagine will be triggered before Dusseldorf immediately sell him on for a quick profit.

currently they cant afford the buy option because it has to be paid cash in one lump sum and they are struggling to meet both league spending and to even raise the funds

it also has to be triggered and agreed by a deadline

[canarybubbles 1,915]

18 minutes ago, Paul101 said:

currently they cant afford the buy option because it has to be paid cash in one lump sum and they are struggling to meet both league spending and to even raise the funds

it also has to be triggered and agreed by a deadline

But if they have an agreement to sell him on immediately, with the paperwork to prove it, couldn't they just get a short-term loan from a bank?

[BroadstairsR 2,173]

Nice problem for City to have, it seems. The boy is a clear talent, but who would want to go through all the ups and downs he experienced at Carrow Road again? Neither the player nor the club, imo.

He seems to have matured a lot now, though. He really was very young and very inexperienced in every way when he first came to City. Perhaps the rollercoaster ride he has had since he joined us has brought him down to earth.

Edited March 22 by BroadstairsR