Wagner has gone nuclear

[hogesar 9,676]

Just now, S_81 said:

I wouldn’t boo it. I didn’t boo it. But I can see that it’s not the same thing booing his decision and the team. 

But as Dean Ashton said, as a player it's hugely infuriating and counter productive. 

So if fans think angering and offending our players is the way to help us perform then crack on. I would agree with Wagner that those individuals are not actual Norwich fans.

[Branston Pickle 3,659]

Just now, S_81 said:

I don’t agree with you. It’s very clear what’s being booed. It could impact the player coming on (instead of the one not), sure. But I think you’re overplaying the impact on the team. 
Personally I wouldn’t boo that decision tonight. But I can understand the frustration with some of his decisions. 

It’s very clear, is it? And how do you know better than me?  I am 100% sure there was booing for Fassie coming on: do tell me how you distinguish between the manager and the player in that circumstance.

[S_81 797]

Just now, hogesar said:

But as Dean Ashton said, as a player it's hugely infuriating and counter productive. 

So if fans think angering and offending our players is the way to help us perform then crack on. I would agree with Wagner that those individuals are not actual Norwich fans.

I don’t think it helps either. But I’m clear who it is aimed at. And I think the impact on the team is overplayed 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

5 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Wagner knows he's not turning around fan opinion so he's just saying what he thinks. He knows he's not going to be Knapper's man so he's not even trying to build bridges.

This will get thrown straight back in his face the moment we're behind in a game. You know, causing a snowballing bad atmosphere in the ground.

 

Yeah, and what a bunch of f*king morons these fans are for making it this way. Here we are back in the top 6, but these half-wits will make it all about their opinions and finish up killing any chance we have of the team kicking on, same as happened under Smith.

I'm surprised the words 'false position' haven't come up yet.

Edited February 13 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,676]

Just now, S_81 said:

I don’t think it helps either. But I’m clear who it is aimed at. And I think the impact on the team is overplayed 

I think I'll trust Dean Ashtons take on that. As well as what current players have said privately.

[Fen Canary 825]

Good on him. Now Webber has departed those whiners need a new target, and like what happened with Webber when the man targeted has a pop back at them they get all upset.

The people moaning that Webber left us with a squad full of cart horses incapable of challenging for promotion are the same ones now claiming that we’re well in the mix for the playoffs despite Wagner, not because of him. You can’t have it both ways 

[Branston Pickle 3,659]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

But as Dean Ashton said, as a player it's hugely infuriating and counter productive. 

So if fans think angering and offending our players is the way to help us perform then crack on. I would agree with Wagner that those individuals are not actual Norwich fans.

Quite.  But why take Ashton, Wagner and all managers around the world when S81 as ever appears to know better than all of them…

Edited February 13 by Branston Pickle

[Helsinki canary 242]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I think I'll trust Dean Ashtons take on that. As well as what current players have said privately.

Thought Dean Ashton spoke a lot of sense tonight 

 

[hogesar 9,676]

Just now, Fen Canary said:

Good on him. Now Webber has departed those whiners need a new target, and like what happened with Webber when the man targeted has a pop back at them they get all upset.

The people moaning that Webber left us with a squad full of cart horses incapable of challenging for promotion are the same ones now claiming that we’re well in the mix for the playoffs despite Wagner, not because of him. You can’t have it both ways 

10000%

If it wasn't for my own love for NCFC, I'd almost want us to get rid of Wagner, employ a Knapper man and fall down the table if it meant the toxic element of our fanbase would finally ego-check and reevaluate. The problem is they'd still be right and just start blaming Knapper.

Embarrassing to be a Norwich fan at the moment, and not because of anything on the pitch.

[S_81 797]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s very clear, is it? And how do you know better than me?  I am 100% sure there was booing for Fassie coming on: do tell me how you distinguish between the manager and the player in that circumstance.

As I said, it’s not helpful for the player(s) coming on. But I think the negative impact on the team is overplayed. Deliberately so by Wagner to detract from the criticism he should be owning. He should be saying he’s the boss, it’s his right, and he’ll be held accountable to it. Not hide behind nonsense about not supporting the team. It’s the same cheap rubbish Delia was spouting at the AGM. 
 

[Gordon Bennett 783]

He's far from my favourite Norwich manager but hes right, the booing was utterly embarrassing. 

[Mason 47 1,379]

I'd not boo our own substitutions, however to a degree there has to be some understanding of the current relationship with the fanbase. We took off Sargent early at the weekend and arguably spaffed 2 points up the wall; there will be a certain amount of trepidation to making exactly the same moves at 2-1 up today whilst on the ropes.

What Ashton was getting at is correct, however, and has been thus since Smith started to unravel last season. Our crowd is extremely quick to voice disapproval but the praise for positives is not easily given and fleeting when it is.

I can't even articulate why I think that is, the words just don't sit right. Such a strange period of this club.

 

[Rolf Harris 31]

Sargent wasn't happy with the fans.

[Yobocop 1,099]

And rightly so, some of our fans are morons

Like it or not, Wagners subs tonight paid off, Nunez controlled midfield, fassnacht scored, wonder strike aside from Watford they never looked like scoring. 

sara cupping his ears to the fans says it all, a small section of our fan base are an embarrassment, petulant and privileged 

In 3 games he’s had his decisions lambasted and he’s only human was going to crack eventually 

as it is we need to stick together as players, management and supporters and if we don’t then the performances will drop. Supporters need to realise their actions have a direct impact on the players and management. 

Well said David Wagner, now let’s move on as a team and club and push things forward 

Edited February 13 by Yobocop

[Fen Canary 825]

2 minutes ago, S_81 said:

As I said, it’s not helpful for the player(s) coming on. But I think the negative impact on the team is overplayed. Deliberately so by Wagner to detract from the criticism he should be owning. He should be saying he’s the boss, it’s his right, and he’ll be held accountable to it. Not hide behind nonsense about not supporting the team. It’s the same cheap rubbish Delia was spouting at the AGM. 
 

We’re in the f***ing play off places, with a squad that has had numerous injuries to important players. What do you want him to be held accountable for? The war in Gaza perhaps? 

[RobJames 881]

7 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

So he wants the whole of the Barclay and Snakepit to stay away? He'd do well to remember that's where all the vocal support comes from too, or does he want a whole ground in silence?

Only it wasn't  ''the whole...", it was a few spotty Herberts. Much the same age as those young binlets, seen on another thread. Kids who have no idea of the game other than they need to ape the behaviour of fans elsewhere. I assume KH you were in the River End so unable to see who were booing. 

When substitutions are made things are generally quite so stuff like this carries.  I wonder how many of these cretins will sign 'the pledge'. Refusing to attend any play off semi final or final games. We are now 6th (momentarily), and are heading in the right direction. This from what is am almost 'scratch team' when compared to the money of some of the other clubs. Genuine supporters know this and recognise where we are, compared to where we have been for much of our existence.

It is only the wretched glory hunters who have suddenly discovered that supporting a club, involves support - and it is not all open top buses and winning games every week. I suspect that should we not go up this season they will melt away. Probably not as much as our income, but they will be no loss, whatsoever.

 

 

 

[Rolf Harris 31]

Hate on Delia and Webber's but not Sir David.

[S_81 797]

Just now, Fen Canary said:

We’re in the f***ing play off places, with a squad that has had numerous injuries to important players. What do you want him to be held accountable for? The war in Gaza perhaps? 

Don’t be a fool. His record of changing a game for the better is fair to be scrutinised. No booed. But discussed. He without doubt cost us two points on Saturday. It didn’t tonight in the end. 

[East Rider 551]

5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s very clear, is it? And how do you know better than me?  I am 100% sure there was booing for Fassie coming on: do tell me how you distinguish between the manager and the player in that circumstance.

There was and it was embarrassing to hear it. 

Unfortunately we (NCFC) are in a right pickle. The manager was quite right in what he said regarding negativity but should he really have said it? I feel he would have been the better man if he didn't bring it up, but I understand why.

The ones booing the Sargent substitution were in my opinion completely wrong, though again it's unfortunately a by product of supporters feeling uneasy with past decisions and not understanding that our main striker needs careful handling until fully fit . 

We won the game, the manager was right (this time), people are not happy and we as a fan base are backed into a corner. 

Strange times!

[Yobocop 1,099]

I do hope comments are not turned off on this thread as this could be and deserves to be one of the best debates on this forum for years 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

 

11 minutes ago, S_81 said:

As I said, it’s not helpful for the player(s) coming on. But I think the negative impact on the team is overplayed. Deliberately so by Wagner to detract from the criticism he should be owning. He should be saying he’s the boss, it’s his right, and he’ll be held accountable to it. Not hide behind nonsense about not supporting the team. It’s the same cheap rubbish Delia was spouting at the AGM. 
 

It's clearly not overplayed, else why would sargent have actively gestured to discourage fans from doing it as he came off?

Edited February 13 by littleyellowbirdie

[HertsCanary93 222]

Embarrassing from a portion of the fans today.

These days you'll hear the snake pit in only 3 situations. When they are booing their own team,  when they are booing the drummer, and (only if we're lucky enough to be winning) maybe they will sing about the snake pit.

Sad times from a portion of our fanbase that used to give the most vocal support.

Edited February 13 by HertsCanary93

[S_81 797]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

It's clearly not overplayed, else why would sargent have actively gestured to discouraging fans from doing it as he came off?

He is getting back to fitness. Or could even have felt a niggle. I took it that he was saying don’t blame the manager it needs to happen. I didn’t take it that he was saying you’re going to upset this group of well paid grown men. 

[Conrad 170]

Considering that the boos were probably the loudest noise made by the crowd all night, there will not be much of a crowd on Saturday if all those booing stay at home. 

Wagner may talk about trust, but trust has to be earned. He is not in that position currently. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Wagner may have a point after a great result that gets us into the top 6 BUT the usual suspects loving the fact they have been given an opportunity to slag off their fellow fans is really sad and pathetic. After a great win like that Wagner should have got everyone on side... unless he need to send a signal to the dressing room.. which from what I have heard maybe the case

Edited February 13 by Kenny Foggo

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

3 minutes ago, East Rider said:

There was and it was embarrassing to hear it. 

Unfortunately we (NCFC) are in a right pickle. The manager was quite right in what he said regarding negativity but should he really have said it? I feel he would have been the better man if he didn't bring it up, but I understand why.

The ones booing the Sargent substitution were in my opinion completely wrong, though again it's unfortunately a by product of supporters feeling uneasy with past decisions and not understanding that our main striker needs careful handling until fully fit . 

We won the game, the manager was right (this time), people are not happy and we as a fan base are backed into a corner. 

Strange times!

There's no 'should' . He has every right to say what he wants. Those people angry that he's said it are most likely the ones who have been the problem the last two seasons.

[Yobocop 1,099]

Just now, S_81 said:

He is getting back to fitness. Or could even have felt a niggle. I took it that he was saying don’t blame the manager it needs to happen. I didn’t take it that he was saying you’re going to upset this group of well paid grown men. 

Is that the issue then? You’re jealous of what they earn? If it isn’t that then it’s how it comes across. 

none of them are at fault for that by the way, we have a group of players who are fully with the manager by the looks of it as well. 
 

I would really stop digging if I was you 

[Conrad 170]

11 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I'd not boo our own substitutions, however to a degree there has to be some understanding of the current relationship with the fanbase. We took off Sargent early at the weekend and arguably spaffed 2 points up the wall; there will be a certain amount of trepidation to making exactly the same moves at 2-1 up today whilst on the ropes.

What Ashton was getting at is correct, however, and has been thus since Smith started to unravel last season. Our crowd is extremely quick to voice disapproval but the praise for positives is not easily given and fleeting when it is.

I can't even articulate why I think that is, the words just don't sit right. Such a strange period of this club.

 

Ashton also suggested that Wagner is now on a slippery slope with regards to the fans. Don't criticise the fans. 

[Conrad 170]

33 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Wow..  that interview is not going to do him any favors... 

He's now a dead man walking. 

[Highland Canary 76]

That pesky 20% I suspect. From the South Stand it seemed that most of the 20% must be in the Barclay. Has the ground ever been so quiet after a 4-2 win? Maybe the management team at the club should ponder that paradox.