It's good to see this place busy again but...

[Daz Sparks 1,204]

10 minutes ago, ridgeman said:

If Giannoulis hadn’t faffed around with the ball and given away a throw in it might have been a different result. At times he is a liability.

This is a fair assessment.

[yellowrider120 793]

4 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...when its at a poor side in the bottom 3...

Well we've played them twice in the last couple of months or so and no way are they a 'poor side'. They may still be in the bottom three but carried a real threat and show a great spirit. 

[hogesar 9,786]

59 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Come on  , theyre poor

Having turned the game round in our favour  , there were a dozen ways Wagner could have played it from thereon, unfortunately he didnt do a lot right from that point in the game after

Well, the subs were forced and pre-match / half time this forum and other socials were full of "Wagner has ruined it by not playing Nunez so we can control the game!!" - So going 2-1 up, bringing him on to help control the game was a logical-enough option. I'm not sure the subs really cost us directly anyway.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,812]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, the subs were forced and pre-match / half time this forum and other socials were full of "Wagner has ruined it by not playing Nunez so we can control the game!!" - So going 2-1 up, bringing him on to help control the game was a logical-enough option. I'm not sure the subs really cost us directly anyway.

They certainly cost us as an attacking threat for the remainder of the game

[BroadstairsR 2,224]

We had begun to build up some expectation of the team managing to earn a play-off place. We had an almost full squad of highly paid players lining up against a team which had struggled all season and whose players were likely far less generously remunerated.

Few probably felt 'entitled' enough to expect victory in the play-offs, despite the fact that our players are among the highest earners in the league, but even the chance of being in them would have prevented the rest of the season from fizzling out into a drawn out period without that expectation and with a degree of disinterest.

We had been on a good run prior to yesterday, so when we fought back into a lead against lowly QPR another three points towards that aim seemed assured. Then came the changes and the impetus of the game clearly shifted, and at the final whistle it felt like two points lost.

The heat had been lifted from a manager who many had question marks against, particularly regarding his tactical nous and ability to read a game. Those many, including myself, had begun to think that he deserved a crack at the play-offs if nothing else. The man himself then resorted to demonstrating the very misgivings that had caused the many to doubt his credentials in the first place.

Of course, there were excuses which explained some of those substitutions, particularly with regard to the Sarge apparently, but the where was our new recruit, probably bursting to impress? How is it a highly paid manager with such a decent array of talent cannot see what so many of us find obvious, that the ageing Barnes is not the slightest bit equipped to play the single striker role. This is just one example of the reasons why yesterday's game became a bit of a typical Wagner shambles towards the end.

It's not just that the manager makes selection mistakes that baffle the fans, all mangers seem to do that. If you read other forums, it is a consistent theme, it is that this manager makes glaring ones. The same with substitutions, which no one can deny have cost us more points than gained throughout the season. The opposite of what they are supposed to achieve.

Yesterday's performance by David Wagner illustrated perfectly just why so many of us have such little faith in him or his ability to utilise a squad of, what I consider to be, much better than average Championship performers.

Finally, this is a fan's forum designed to express the view of fans. Why is it then when these views are critical of either the team or manager do these disappointed supporters have to be continually subject to that same old record about "busy tonight" time and time again along with other nonsense like "entitlement" by the few who more readily accept the below par and, in my view, the 'Little Old Norwich' stance.

Good performances and results speak for themselves and get recognised accordingly, bad ones need to be brought to light. 

Disappointment is just that.   

Edited February 11 by BroadstairsR

[The Bristol Nest 520]

The op being about the forum rather than the team is quite small minded. 

Posts tend to be more motivated by frustration, generally resulting in more traffic on sports forums.

It is not difficult to understand.

[king canary 7,695]

3 hours ago, The Bristol Nest said:

The op being about the forum rather than the team is quite small minded. 

Posts tend to be more motivated by frustration, generally resulting in more traffic on sports forums.

It is not difficult to understand.

Far too many on here are much more concerned with winning fights with other fans than the actual football.

[norfolkngood 1,095]

14 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, the subs were forced and pre-match / half time this forum and other socials were full of "Wagner has ruined it by not playing Nunez so we can control the game!!" - So going 2-1 up, bringing him on to help control the game was a logical-enough option. I'm not sure the subs really cost us directly anyway.

i think Sarge should have been a like for like for sub to give their Defenders something to think about ,

without the two strikers  the pressure was taken off their Defenders ,

Goal threat went with Sarge going off and QPR could push on to us 

 

 

[Indy 3,333]

7 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

We had begun to build up some expectation of the team managing to earn a play-off place. We had an almost full squad of highly paid players lining up against a team which had struggled all season and whose players were likely far less generously remunerated.

Few probably felt 'entitled' enough to expect victory in the play-offs, despite the fact that our players are among the highest earners in the league, but even the chance of being in them would have prevented the rest of the season from fizzling out into a drawn out period without that expectation and with a degree of disinterest.

We had been on a good run prior to yesterday, so when we fought back into a lead against lowly QPR another three points towards that aim seemed assured. Then came the changes and the impetus of the game clearly shifted, and at the final whistle it felt like two points lost.

The heat had been lifted from a manager who many had question marks against, particularly regarding his tactical nous and ability to read a game. Those many, including myself, had begun to think that he deserved a crack at the play-offs if nothing else. The man himself then resorted to demonstrating the very misgivings that had caused the many to doubt his credentials in the first place.

Of course, there were excuses which explained some of those substitutions, particularly with regard to the Sarge apparently, but the where was our new recruit, probably bursting to impress? How is it a highly paid manager with such a decent array of talent cannot see what so many of us find obvious, that the ageing Barnes is not the slightest bit equipped to play the single striker role. This is just one example of the reasons why yesterday's game became a bit of a typical Wagner shambles towards the end.

It's not just that the manager makes selection mistakes that baffle the fans, all mangers seem to do that. If you read other forums, it is a consistent theme, it is that this manager makes glaring ones. The same with substitutions, which no one can deny have cost us more points than gained throughout the season. The opposite of what they are supposed to achieve.

Yesterday's performance by David Wagner illustrated perfectly just why so many of us have such little faith in him or his ability to utilise a squad of, what I consider to be, much better than average Championship performers.

Finally, this is a fan's forum designed to express the view of fans. Why is it then when these views are critical of either the team or manager do these disappointed supporters have to be continually subject to that same old record about "busy tonight" time and time again along with other nonsense like "entitlement" by the few who more readily accept the below par and, in my view, the 'Little Old Norwich' stance.

Good performances and results speak for themselves and get recognised accordingly, bad ones need to be brought to light. 

Disappointment is just that.   

I get everything you say here, but I would point out we have two home games coming up and 3 games in a week. I certainly agree Barnes up too as a lone striker was daft he doesn’t have the kegs or game for that, Nunez coming on I can get, maybe Nunez should have started?

I sort of understand keeping Nunez back for Tuesday and Saturday games as he’s going to be needed for those, maybe he has a plan for VH but I was surprised he wasn’t bought on for Sargent.

I will agree that looking from the sidelines we can probably lay some blame to the tactics, but for me look at the squad he’s got! Hernandez, Gibbs, Sorensen, Hanley, Baath, Duffy, Stacey, McCallum and Fassnacht all who are just about championship squad quality not really ones at their current age or playing level we would want in our starting 11. Take out Sargent, Sarah, Rowe & Sainz and that squad is a walking disaster with the mistakes being made. Gunn & McLean have been solid this season.

The more I look at our squad the more I think Wagner deserves more credit, yes tactics can be questionable but look at the quality he’s working with aging players with questionable quality.

I don’t think anyone could do better with this squad in my opinion. 

Edited February 11 by Indy

[nutty nigel 7,656]

The real small minded and insufferably arrogant posts are those above from Broady, Nester and Kingo.

The place was much busier and that's always nice to see.

An away draw in the Champs is a good result. And we played well to get it.

You don't trump that opinion by arrogantly dismissing it.

Have a word with yourselves...

[Branston Pickle 3,725]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Far too many on here are much more concerned with winning fights with other fans than the actual football.

I’ve posted on here for 20 years and never bothered getting overly involved until recently - but a degree of entitled garbage has crept in which I simply can’t and don’t agree with; people who criticise literally everything and seem more gleeful when we aren’t doing well than when we are.

There’s always plenty of good and bad going on, however the team is faring on the pitch - but this season we do seem to have seen new angles to beat the club with. It is a bit weird given we’re all meant to be supporters.

[hogesar 9,786]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’ve posted on here for 20 years and never bothered getting overly involved until recently - but a degree of entitled garbage has crept in which I simply can’t and don’t agree with; people who criticise literally everything and seem more gleeful when we aren’t doing well than when we are.

There’s always plenty of good and bad going on, however the team is faring on the pitch - but this season we do seem to have seen new angles to beat the club with. It is a bit weird given we’re all meant to be supporters.

This is exactly it.

Three months ago this squad was a complete failure thanks to Webber and nowhere near good enough for the playoffs, look how far we've fallen etc. Then we had a manager who wouldn't get another job in the championship and Knapper was being controlled by Webber and was the only reason we hadn't sacked one of our most useless managers of our recent era.

Now I'm already seeing the same posters try and, I assume, protect their ego by stating that if we go get the play offs it'll be in spite of Wagner, rather than risk giving him a little bit of credit.

It's not hard. I thought he should have gone during that terrible run where he wasn't willing to change system despite injuries. Now I'm giving him credit for somehow keeping the squad together and working hard for him despite the above and despite a pretty despondent, useless and negative fanbase for majority of the season. 

There is some sort of levelled determination to regress into anger and fury at every game we don't win that thankfully only appears to be on here and other platforms rather than at matches - my mates at QPR were relatively happy with the days showing despite it being gutting not to hold onto the win.

[canarybubbles 1,952]

39 minutes ago, hogesar said:

This is exactly it.

Three months ago this squad was a complete failure thanks to Webber and nowhere near good enough for the playoffs, look how far we've fallen etc. Then we had a manager who wouldn't get another job in the championship and Knapper was being controlled by Webber and was the only reason we hadn't sacked one of our most useless managers of our recent era.

Now I'm already seeing the same posters try and, I assume, protect their ego by stating that if we go get the play offs it'll be in spite of Wagner, rather than risk giving him a little bit of credit.

It's not hard. I thought he should have gone during that terrible run where he wasn't willing to change system despite injuries. Now I'm giving him credit for somehow keeping the squad together and working hard for him despite the above and despite a pretty despondent, useless and negative fanbase for majority of the season. 

There is some sort of levelled determination to regress into anger and fury at every game we don't win that thankfully only appears to be on here and other platforms rather than at matches - my mates at QPR were relatively happy with the days showing despite it being gutting not to hold onto the win.

IMO, this is a phenomenon much more widespread than just NCFC. The word 'entitled' is thrown around a lot nowadays, but it does seem to reflect something real that is happening, and not just in football. We are all customers now, and the customer is king. So if our football team doesn't win most of its matches, we complain or even riot and want our money back. If their child doesn't do well at school, parents attack the teacher because they are a customer and how dare the teacher award poor grades. 'Because you're worth it,' to quote L'Oreal.

The sad thing is it doesn't make us happier. On the contrary, it makes us more and more discontented. We can't all have a team in the PL. We can't all win every game.

I worry about the little clubs once the older generation have all died off and the young locals switch support from Man U to Liverpool to Man City according to who are winning trophies at the moment. 

Football as we old fogeys know it is dead, basically. Or at least it's no longer something emerging from the grass roots, but a business. A product we consume.

Edited February 11 by canarybubbles

[BroadstairsR 2,224]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

The real small minded and insufferably arrogant posts are those above from Broady, Nester and Kingo.

The place was much busier and that's always nice to see.

An away draw in the Champs is a good result. And we played well to get it.

You don't trump that opinion by arrogantly dismissing it.

Have a word with yourselves...

Pathetic response. Especially that stupid picture. Little attempt to counteract the points made. Just kicking the player, not the ball.

It's a discussion forum, sensitive souls take note.

Even the old "arrogant" chestnut is brought up again, previously it was the "entitlement" nonsense.

Repeat: Change the record, occasionally at least.

Edited February 11 by BroadstairsR

[Ken Hairy 3,792]

I never get posters who sole purpose on here appears to be digs at other fans, however to answer the question its AWAYS been a bad result to throw away a lead to the team 3rd bottom and only draw, home or away!!

[Ken Hairy 3,792]

Oh and I wasn't on here last night, but looking at whats been posted since yesterday afternoon and when I logged on after my hangover subsided this afternoon, there actually wasn't that many new posts at all, perhaps a name change to Nonsense Nigel would be appropriate? 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

22 hours ago, essex canary said:

When you are only as good as your last match and need more than 1 point per game to achieve the objective.

I love how these simplistic statement come into and out of fashion, usually depending whether the last match was good or bad.

[Feedthewolf 4,930]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I love how these simplistic statement come into and out of fashion, usually depending whether the last match was good or bad.

Isn't it also simplistic to say 'a point away from home is a good result' irrespective of the context? On the balance of play I'd say a draw was about right, but I did feel that the tactical decisions after we went 2-1 up directly contributed to letting QPR back into the match. Having travelled down to London to watch the game made it all the more disappointing when we gave up a winning position and a position of dominance with poor tactical decisions.

If we have to use Delia's divisive rhetoric then I'm definitely more of an '80%er', as my posting history will testify, but it's perfectly reasonable to question Wagner's tactical acuity in the context of the match.

[RobJames 905]

7 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I never get posters who sole purpose on here appears to be digs at other fans, however to answer the question its AWAYS been a bad result to throw away a lead to the team 3rd bottom and only draw, home or away!!

The same team who came into this game on an unbeaten run of three games (2 wins) and strengthened in January, adding a number of key signings to their squad. If you watched the game yesterday you would have seen a team not looking like bottom three, or playing like bottom three either. So to simply dismiss them as 'bottom three' is not an accurate description.

[RobJames 905]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Bananarama have let themselves go

[king canary 7,695]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’ve posted on here for 20 years and never bothered getting overly involved until recently - but a degree of entitled garbage has crept in which I simply can’t and don’t agree with; people who criticise literally everything and seem more gleeful when we aren’t doing well than when we are.

There’s always plenty of good and bad going on, however the team is faring on the pitch - but this season we do seem to have seen new angles to beat the club with. It is a bit weird given we’re all meant to be supporters.

I don't really disagree with you. This place goes in cycles and right now it's not a great environment- reminds of the old 'happy clappers/pant wetters' times except its 80 percenters/20 percenters now and there are far too many posts and posters on both sides who are much concerned with picking fights Vs the other side than discussing football.

I'm not above it, don't get me wrong. But I also think this place is better when it isn't quite so obvious how much contempt some fans have for large parts of our fanbase.

[Feedthewolf 4,930]

16 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't really disagree with you. This place goes in cycles and right now it's not a great environment- reminds of the old 'happy clappers/pant wetters' times except its 80 percenters/20 percenters now and there are far too many posts and posters on both sides who are much concerned with picking fights Vs the other side than discussing football.

I'm not above it, don't get me wrong. But I also think this place is better when it isn't quite so obvious how much contempt some fans have for large parts of our fanbase.

Totally agree with that, Kingo, but there are still a lot of good posters in the middle ground who rise above that divisive rhetoric.

Unlike the happy clappers/pant wetters rhetoric, though, the 'battle lines' on this occasion have been drawn by Delia herself, with her 80/20 comments at the AGM. All it's done is give those so-called whingers a 'tag' to identify with and rally around. I'm still shaking my head at that.

[Capt. Pants 4,318]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Totally agree with that, Kingo, but there are still a lot of good posters in the middle ground who rise above that divisive rhetoric.

Unlike the happy clappers/pant wetters rhetoric, though, the 'battle lines' on this occasion have been drawn by Delia herself, with her 80/20 comments at the AGM. All it's done is give those so-called whingers a 'tag' to identify with and rally around. I'm still shaking my head at that.

Likewise some seem smug that they are one of the 80% and look down their noses at the so called 'whiners'. Like it or not it has caused division in our fanbase and who knows may have crept into Carrow Rd as well in terms of vocal support. Some won't care about that though as they don't actually go to games.

I do think some have been a bit overly sensitive about the criticism of Wagner over the substitutions. It was and is a perfectly valid discussion point.

 

 

[Ken Hairy 3,792]

39 minutes ago, RobJames said:

The same team who came into this game on an unbeaten run of three games (2 wins) and strengthened in January, adding a number of key signings to their squad. If you watched the game yesterday you would have seen a team not looking like bottom three, or playing like bottom three either. So to simply dismiss them as 'bottom three' is not an accurate description.

They didn't look much cop to me, neither side did hence Goreham making the point that it was an entertaining game despite the lack of quality and many mistakes from both sides.

They're 3rd bottom for a reason so it's a bloody accurate description I think you'll find, and nothing I saw yesterday makes me think they'll be much if any higher come May

QPR, regardless of a whopping 2 wins in 3 streak are one of the worst sides in this division,  to claim otherwise this far into a season is utter nonsense. 

[Feedthewolf 4,930]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Likewise some seem smug that they are one of the 80% and look down their noses at the so called 'whiners'. Like it or not it has caused division in our fanbase and who knows may have crept into Carrow Rd as well in terms of vocal support. Some won't care about that though as they don't actually go to games.

I do think some have been a bit overly sensitive about the criticism of Wagner over the substitutions. It was and is a perfectly valid discussion point.

Fair and accurate. And it's important that the more fair-minded posters don't fall down the 80/20 rabbit hole; there's still a huge amount of good discussion on here. As there should be – this is NCFC's number-one online community, and we should all take a moment to remember that we support the same team.

Most of the time it's just the uber-negative fans sniping at the uber-positive fans and vice versa. The rest of us need to rise above it and let them get on with it.

[nutty nigel 7,656]

12 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

9 hours ago, The Bristol Nest said:

The op being about the forum rather than the team is quite small minded. 

Posts tend to be more motivated by frustration, generally resulting in more traffic on sports forums.

It is not difficult to understand.

 

5 hours ago, king canary said:

Far too many on here are much more concerned with winning fights with other fans than the actual football.

Finally, this is a fan's forum designed to express the view of fans. Why is it then when these views are critical of either the team or manager do these disappointed supporters have to be continually subject to that same old record about "busy tonight" time and time again along with other nonsense like "entitlement" by the few who more readily accept the below par and, in my view, the 'Little Old Norwich' stance.

Good performances and results speak for themselves and get recognised accordingly, bad ones need to be brought to light. 

Disappointment is just that.   

This was what I was replying to Broady. Those comments were nothing to do with my opening post. You like the word pathetic and that's what those posts are. 

I don't see where me being pleased that the forum was more busy than last week, and my belief that a point away from home in the champs was a good result, warranted those replies. Perhaps you'd like to explain that to me?

I'm not just a happy clapper I'm also a happy poster. I don't see the point of spending hundreds of pounds following your team if it makes you miserable or sends you up the pole every other week. I also don't see the point of spending time on a forum if it makes you miserable or sends you up the pole every other week.

If my good humour bothers you then with the utmost disrespect you can suck it up

If you don't like my opening post perhaps now you understand it.

The other two members of Bananarama are quite welcome to reply too...

Edited February 11 by nutty nigel

[nutty nigel 7,656]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Oh and I wasn't on here last night, but looking at whats been posted since yesterday afternoon and when I logged on after my hangover subsided this afternoon, there actually wasn't that many new posts at all, perhaps a name change to Nonsense Nigel would be appropriate? 

 

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

I never get posters who sole purpose on here appears to be digs at other fans, however to answer the question its AWAYS been a bad result to throw away a lead to the team 3rd bottom and only draw, home or away!!

So your opinion trumps mine. Does that mean I shouldn't have posted it? Because I haven't changed my mind.

And last night was three times as busy as the previous week. I know that by how quickly Rays Funds drops down the page let alone all the reply and views on this thread.

BTW in that context all the posts are nonsense and achieve sweet fa.

[Ken Hairy 3,792]

28 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

 

So your opinion trumps mine. Does that mean I shouldn't have posted it? Because I haven't changed my mind.

And last night was three times as busy as the previous week. I know that by how quickly Rays Funds drops down the page let alone all the reply and views on this thread.

BTW in that context all the posts are nonsense and achieve sweet fa.

Didn't say it trumped yours, stop being so precious. You can have all the opinions you want, and I can find as many of them nonsense as I want 😉.

Can you show me your workings out to get to the conclusion it was THREE TIMES as busy please? As like I said I didn't log on for 24 hours and didn't look like much had been posted.

[king canary 7,695]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Totally agree with that, Kingo, but there are still a lot of good posters in the middle ground who rise above that divisive rhetoric.

Unlike the happy clappers/pant wetters rhetoric, though, the 'battle lines' on this occasion have been drawn by Delia herself, with her 80/20 comments at the AGM. All it's done is give those so-called whingers a 'tag' to identify with and rally around. I'm still shaking my head at that.

Aye, there are some but I get a bit frustrated to see posters I generally think of as good get dragged down into this. I can ignore the usual **** stirrers on both sides but right now it feels like much harder work to pick through the sniping and the ****.

[essex canary 515]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Totally agree with that, Kingo, but there are still a lot of good posters in the middle ground who rise above that divisive rhetoric.

Unlike the happy clappers/pant wetters rhetoric, though, the 'battle lines' on this occasion have been drawn by Delia herself, with her 80/20 comments at the AGM. All it's done is give those so-called whingers a 'tag' to identify with and rally around. I'm still shaking my head at that.

The AGM is attended by about 1% of a typical attendance at Carrow Road, is only in existence because of a past need to fan finance the Club and in no way does the attendance reflect the Club's current demographic.  Moreover Delia has done nothing since to correct it and show the leadership of 'we are all in this together'. Can't stomach criticism is the conclusion but a tougher exterior is needed in football.