Daily Mail slates Delia and Michael

[shefcanary 2,409]

3 minutes ago, In my blood said:

Enough time has passed for the Daily Wail headline to apply equally to Attanasio as well. If he is as involved with Knapper as suggested elsewhere, then our new American friend is culpable and should share the blame for the club being without direction!

Hmm, I can sense your frustration, but that is only because Attanasio's MO is not to antagonise the shareholders he is acquiring control of the club from, in order to obtain the club as cheaply as possible. This is down to Smith & Jones wanting to do right by the supporters and not to be seen to make an equity gain out of their period in charge of the club. Frankly, that is a very difficult thing to achieve, if they just accept they have made a small fortune, accept any offer going from Attanasio, then everyone can get on with life and Attanasio can start running the club without fear or favour. 

[lake district canary 4,532]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nothing can deflect from the fact that Farke had had 4 and a quarter seasons with us and was doing no better on his second attempt at the Premier League than the first, underlining that he'd clearly reached his limit with us. The fact he happened to get a win on his very last game after the decision had been made to get rid of him is just one of those freak things.

In football you either go forwards or backwards. Nothing ever remains the same. So you can look back ten games, twenty games, a season and postulate all sorts of reasons to back your arguments, but the best indicator for a manager's performance is the form table - like the most recent 5 or 6 games.  Yes, the decision to get rid of Farke was done before Brentford, but it could have been reversed on the strength of that win and the fact players were still playing for him. 

In that season, you can look at the fixture list, you can look at the circumstances of the covid disrupted pre-season, you can look at the late arrivals of Kabak and Normann, you can look at the ridiculous nonsense surrounding Gilmour and Cantwell, you can look at injuries, you can look at Sargent and Tzolis being nowhere near ready for the PL - and in combination, there is strong evidence to show it is no surprise we were struggling......

.....yet even then Farke still had the players playing for him and got 5 points in 5 games, with an encouraging win, away from home. That decision could have been reversed....but something tells me that Webber had a plan that he was going to stick to - and that plan backfired and he ended up with Smith as the only viable option. That plan might even have been Smith himself, knowing on the football grapevine he was going to become available....whatever, that went well, didn't it.......

We can argue until the cows come home, but the reality is Farke was a great fit for our club - and in saying that I am using the lack of resources and recruitment as the main issue for us not being able to compete in the PL, not Farke himself. Would it have become too toxic for him?  Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know, but that win at Brentford was a great boost at a difficult time and I'll never forget the shock of that sacking - a huge high of a win against all the odds, followed by that huge shock, was hard to deal with.

The Daily Fail can talk about yo yo's, well for once they are right - that yo yo, at the moment, has got stuck - and the reason for that stuckness is the folly of getting rid of a superb manager at Championship level firstly for a weak manager and then to where we are now, with people who haven't perhaps seen much of us since the Farke days, looking in on us and  seeing we have lost our way a bit.....something us fans have been seeing for the last two seasons.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

In football you either go forwards or backwards. Nothing ever remains the same. So you can look back ten games, twenty games, a season and postulate all sorts of reasons to back your arguments, but the best indicator for a manager's performance is the form table - like the most recent 5 or 6 games.  Yes, the decision to get rid of Farke was done before Brentford, but it could have been reversed on the strength of that win and the fact players were still playing for him. 

In that season, you can look at the fixture list, you can look at the circumstances of the covid disrupted pre-season, you can look at the late arrivals of Kabak and Normann, you can look at the ridiculous nonsense surrounding Gilmour and Cantwell, you can look at injuries, you can look at Sargent and Tzolis being nowhere near ready for the PL - and in combination, there is strong evidence to show it is no surprise we were struggling......

.....yet even then Farke still had the players playing for him and got 5 points in 5 games, with an encouraging win, away from home. That decision could have been reversed....but something tells me that Webber had a plan that he was going to stick to - and that plan backfired and he ended up with Smith as the only viable option. That plan might even have been Smith himself, knowing on the football grapevine he was going to become available....whatever, that went well, didn't it.......

We can argue until the cows come home, but the reality is Farke was a great fit for our club - and in saying that I am using the lack of resources and recruitment as the main issue for us not being able to compete in the PL, not Farke himself. Would it have become too toxic for him?  Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know, but that win at Brentford was a great boost at a difficult time and I'll never forget the shock of that sacking - a huge high of a win against all the odds, followed by that huge shock, was hard to deal with.

The Daily Fail can talk about yo yo's, well for once they are right - that yo yo, at the moment, has got stuck - and the reason for that stuckness is the folly of getting rid of a superb manager at Championship level firstly for a weak manager and then to where we are now, with people who haven't perhaps seen much of us since the Farke days, looking in on us and  seeing we have lost our way a bit.....something us fans have been seeing for the last two seasons.

He wasn't that good. One mediocre championship season, two great ones, and one and a quarter dire premier league seasons. And a totally justifiable sacking for really awful results.. He was good at clapping the fans. Just move on for God's sake.

 

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[lake district canary 4,532]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

Just move on for God's sake .

So it's ok for you to go on about it from your point of view, but not ok for others to question you about it. I see.

As @canarydan23 says, the subject is going stay relevant until we actually show that we have moved on as a club from him. Smith was not the answer and judging from our performances this season and last, Wagner doesn't look the answer either - but he does at least have the time this season to prove he can get us going up the table and challenging the top six.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

So it's ok for you to go on about it from your point of view, but not ok for others to question you about it. I see.

As @canarydan23 says, the subject is going stay relevant until we actually show that we have moved on as a club from him. Smith was not the answer and judging from our performances this season and last, Wagner doesn't look the answer either - but he does at least have the time this season to prove he can get us going up the table and challenging the top six.

Oh here we go, Let it be said that a large reason for the toxicity about Smith was nothing to do with him and all to do with the people sulking about Farke throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to give him any  chance whatsoever, even when we were in the auto slots, let alone the four and a quarter seasons Farke had. People like you damaged the club and completely destroyed any chance of us getting anything out of last season with your negativity.  And you still won't move on.

F*k Farke. Not in the auto slots now is he?

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yobocop 1,099]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

No manager should be judged on points not gained if the fundamental reason for those lack of points is because he wasn't given sufficient resources to be able to get those points.............

To be honest LDC I can fully see the point you’re trying to make but have a couple of caveats if that’s ok: 

1) we were given the resources to get the points but you could argue that was mismanaged 

2) he had no direct influence on where those resources would be spent so cannot be held accountable 

 

[Yobocop 1,099]

I love Farke like the next Norwich bloke but he struggled any higher than the championship and struggles to deal with egos outside of his own 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

3 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

I love Farke like the next Norwich bloke but he struggled any higher than the championship and struggles to deal with egos outside of his own 

I used to love him and I'm really coming to hate him because so many people refuse to f*king move on from him! I mean what are they even whining for? Webber has gone as well so it's not even useful as a stick for the idiots to beat him over the head with.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[essex canary 496]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

The Daily Mail should be boycotted at all newsagents in Norwich just like The Sun in Liverpool.

Said like a true 20 per center. Why stop at Norwich?

[canarydan23 4,060]

39 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Oh here we go, Let it be said that a large reason for the toxicity about Smith was nothing to do with him and all to do with the people sulking about Farke throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to give him any  chance whatsoever

But he only got 2 points out of a possible 30.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

12 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

But he only got 2 points out of a possible 30.

And FYI, I argued quite strongly to keep Farke at the time he was sacked. I did so because I didn't believe keeping us up was possible and also we'd have a fighting chance in the Championship with Farke still there. In fairness, the way the season panned out suggested I was right, but the people who felt that twisting was worth a go won out and I respect that. It didn't work out and I moved on.

The problem is people like you who don't and people like you are 100% responsible for making last season so miserable and toxic when it needn't have been. We lost Aaron Ramsey because Smith was sacked, and he was one of our better players last season.

And also, my arguments regarding Smith were never about him per se, but all about how fans like you treated him because you insisted on throwing your toys out of the pram about Farke. And two managers on, you still defend the right for people to keep throwing their toys out of the pram  for it.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Crafty Canary 496]

I love how easy it is for a fine journal such as the DM to wind up the woke loving lefties on this forum. Yes you numpties that believe everyone is entitled to their opinion so long as it’s one you agree with otherwise ‘off with their heads’.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

4 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

I love how easy it is for a fine journal such as the DM to wind up the woke loving lefties on this forum. Yes you numpties that believe everyone is entitled to their opinion so long as it’s one you agree with otherwise ‘off with their heads’.

It's OK, your entitled to an opinion, now go and have a lie down.

[Yobocop 1,099]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I used to love him and I'm really coming to hate him because so many people refuse to f*king move on from him! I mean what are they even whining for? Webber has gone as well so it's not even useful as a stick for the idiots to beat him over the head with.

Very true 

[Grumpy 122]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Depends on the circumstances. If the person above you insists you have to play 433, rather than the successful 4231, if the person above you gets in players who are not ready to play PL football, if the person above you loans in players who are not good enough - then that suggests the manager is not the one to blame.

I cant believe anybody thinks that Webber dictated our style of play any more than Knapper will.
I also believe that all managers/coaches have an input on comings and goings.
Surely CEO/SD whatever you like to call them are the administrators of the club business and do not have direct control over what happens on the pitch.Do you really think that Pep,Ferguson,Klopp or Mourinho would allow someone to dictate the style of play that they should play

[komakino 272]

Whilst I'd question The Daily Mail's 'once well run club' - when exactly was that? - I really don't understand why Knapper is getting grief in certain quarters. 

It is clear to me that Wagner is purely in a holding role until the end of the season. Knapper will have somebody lined up to replace him with a vision, so it makes little sense to buy players now. Ben has plans but obviously cannot publicly speak about what they are, so until then we are in an odd treading water period. Not ideal, but that's how it is. 

 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

It doesn't say what we want it to say so we'll claim an unedited or unwritten version as truth...

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

4 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

I luvs the Daily Mail....If this criticism came from the Gruadian then we shud be worried an' concerned....so there!...

Even Genghis Khan would’ve found the Mail a little extreme

[lake district canary 4,532]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Oh here we go, Let it be said that a large reason for the toxicity about Smith was nothing to do with him and all to do with the people sulking about Farke throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to give him any  chance whatsoever, even when we were in the auto slots, let alone the four and a quarter seasons Farke had. People like you damaged the club and completely destroyed any chance of us getting anything out of last season with your negativity.  And you still won't move on.

F*k Farke. Not in the auto slots now is he?

It's Farke's first season - and the clear vision given was that this was to be a consolidating/building season. There was a lot of cr*p surrounding at Leeds, bad attitudes, etc.

As for me damaging the club, that's a laugh. I've always said things how I see them - and for me - and a lot of others seem to agree with me (for once!) - we could see Smith was taking us nowhere, whether he was following Farke or anyone else.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

What are 'signs of a promotion push'?

 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

4 hours ago, S_81 said:

I think we can all agree on one thing, regardless of your thoughts on our owners - and that’s that the Daily Mail is miles miles worse. 

Holy crap. This happens very rarely but I totally agree with you!

[Well b back 3,208]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

No manager should be judged on points not gained if the fundamental reason for those lack of points is because he wasn't given sufficient resources to be able to get those points.............

I repeat your words again ‘ the only thing that matters is winning ‘.

[Herman 9,776]

15 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

What are 'signs of a promotion push'?

 

[lake district canary 4,532]

1 hour ago, Grumpy said:

I cant believe anybody thinks that Webber dictated our style of play any more than Knapper will.
I also believe that all managers/coaches have an input on comings and goings.
Surely CEO/SD whatever you like to call them are the administrators of the club business and do not have direct control over what happens on the pitch.Do you really think that Pep,Ferguson,Klopp or Mourinho would allow someone to dictate the style of play that they should play

I believe the conversation could have gone like this -

Webber: Well Daniel, how do you think we can do better in the PL this time?

Farke :  Well, I'd like to have better players so my system will work better. A quality CDM to replace Skipp and a class midfielder to replace Buendia would be a start.

Webber: Sorry can't do that, can only get young hopefuls and injured has beens. How about changing the formation to 433 like other teams in the PL? 

Farke: Nein, nein, we play Farkeball.

Webber: Well that went well last time, didn't it?  I think you ought to try something different.

Farke: Very well, if you won't get me the players I need to play my system, I'll try.

Skip a few weeks.............the week before Brentford

Farke: (he actually said this) I am going to return to using more like what is in our DNA (ie Farkeball) 

And........we win. Great boost for the club, fans and everyone except.......

Webber.

 

 

[lake district canary 4,532]

2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I repeat your words again ‘ the only thing that matters is winning ‘.

Yes - and with a club who can't afford decent enough players and an SD who buys the wrong ones as a result, whose fault is it, we don't win - the manager or the SD/club?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,727]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I used to love him and I'm really coming to hate him because so many people refuse to f*king move on from him! I mean what are they even whining for? Webber has gone as well so it's not even useful as a stick for the idiots to beat him over the head with.

Farke was an absolute miracle worker in the championship for us that is true. There was no way that rag tag team of youth players, free agents and misfits he put together in his first/second season with us should have been anywhere near promotion yet he did it.

But also failed to keep us up twice. Was he fully supported? Probably not, no. But we could not afford to spend big at the time anyway and most of the players he seemed to have a hand in getting in for our Prem seasons were flops. 

So yes, I would agree that while in the Championship Farke was a true miracle in the top flight he was a dud.

[yellowrider120 763]

5 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

The Daily Mail should be boycotted at all newsagents in Norwich just like The Sun in Liverpool.

Must have missed this. What has the Mail ever said about NCFC or Norwich (the city) in overly critical terms?

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

4 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Must have missed this. What has the Mail ever said about NCFC or Norwich (the city) in overly critical terms?

It was an attempt at irony.

[yellowrider120 763]

15 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It was an attempt at irony.

Sorry - slow on the uptake (not unusual)!

[S_81 798]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Holy crap. This happens very rarely but I totally agree with you!

Had to happen one day lol