Unacceptable!

[Ian 1,130]

The goal was a cracking move though wasn't it?

[Conrad 170]

4 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

I can’t work out how to link Twitter pages on here now but it’s on Samual Seaman’s page. I can only presume they changed approach based on Southamptons setup

https://x.com/samseaman8/status/1741878969920565641?s=46&t=12k3jEugNq5vxKFcnDRw6g

That may be so, but the key word in the statement is 'work', implying that this is what they did in those 6 minutes. Surely all the 'work' should have been done in the weeks/months beforehand in preparation for this situation. The 6 minutes being used to tell the players about the change in plan. Perhaps it's a language issue? 

[Nik Vawn 129]

Decent result against a team on a good run. 

[tea total 79]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

I’m just glad you enjoyed your day today.

I didn't go as it happens (but I am a season ticket holder 🙂) ...but I have enough about me to look at what was happening on the pitch and I could see that the tactics were okay. We got a point so yeah, a decent day thanks 👍

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

We would all have taken a point ahead of the game today. Generally we were well organised at the back and it was great to see a commanding performance from Hanley. However, first 20 mins we stood off them, same again 2nd half. When we did actually get stuck in we looked much better and when Sarge and Idah came on it gave us the option of going more direct.

Far too much respect given to Southampton who play nice tippy tappy football but not a lot of end product. Ipswich gave us more problems! A very good point at the end of the day,

There isn't a lot of true support for Wagner though and the Snake Pit were quick to get on his back when Southampton scored. My position on him hasn't changed, but maybe just maybe Josh will save him his job.

Fantastic decision not to involve Barnes at all in the matchday squad and I can't say we missed him at all.

 

[Nik Vawn 129]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I enjoyed the last twenty minutes when both teams were going for it, but overall, it was thoroughly unenterprising for a home team to set up the way we did.  We might have been hammered had we set up going for it - we'll never know - but we surrendered the initiative right from the first whistle. That is not right imo.

If we had set up to have a go from the start the chances are we would have lost a high scoring game. Which would you prefer?

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

9 minutes ago, Nik Vawn said:

If we had set up to have a go from the start the chances are we would have lost a high scoring game. Which would you prefer?

We'll never know but when we got stuck into them away we were a shocking ref's decisions from getting a high scoring win.

[Nik Vawn 129]

7 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

We'll never know but when we got stuck into them away we were a shocking ref's decisions from getting a high scoring win.

Yep, but we had won the previous four games! At the moment we are a side desperately low on confidence!

Edited January 1 by Nik Vawn

[lake district canary 4,533]

40 minutes ago, tea total said:

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I'd rather see us lose 5-0 going for it than sitting meekly back allowing a visiting team to have the ball with very little opposition.

No you wouldn't! Everyone said the same thing when we got in the Premiership the first time. That attitude lasted a short while then everyone was moaning. I'm still unsure about DW if I'm honest but if you look at some of the comments on here he's not going to win whatever he does 

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe we had to be so negative at the start of the match. People say we had to play like that, but I don't agree. In the two years since Farke left, we have had no apparent plan, no recognisable way of playing that is likely to work and here we are playing as if we are a relegation team hoping to somehow hold back a good side. Is that really where we are as a club? 

People say the place was like a library today for large parts of the game - no surprise there, given the meek tactics. And yes I would have preferred to lose today than watch my team sit back 11 behind the ball from the first minute. 

 

[Well b back 3,216]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I'd rather see us lose 5-0 going for it than sitting meekly back allowing a visiting team to have the ball with very little opposition.

Why have you changed your story ? You used to say the only thing that mattered was winning, and it didn’t matter how you did it.

Id be interested to know why your view has changed and why you slated many posters for saying what you are saying now ?

You even told us we would win nothing without Idah, have you changed your mind on that yet ?

[Mason 47 1,382]

33 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Crikey, we got a Plan B to stick and still peeps are unhappy. I do accept the argument that having to sit in tight in the Champs is a proper indicator of what's happened with the squad, but that's not Wagner's look-out. So I'm happy to credit him with a bit of pragmatism today even if it's not what I'd want to see every time.

This is it for me. Despite the wailing cries from certain corners of the fanbase, I would say there are no Norwich supporters that think we're in a happy, healthy state as a club currently. There have clearly been errors and there are definitely big decisions in the offing.

Setting that aside, taking this game on its own merits, we played for a point and we got a point where most predicted a loss. It was very obviously a 1-off formation to combat a manager who in his past two games against us has rung up 7 goals.

From a personal point of view I will take it as a good thing that Wagner recognised that we were going to get tonked if we played our usual way. Convince him to do away with the #9.5 role and sign Olivander Skippey in January and I dare say things might start to look brighter. 

[Kingston Yellow 220]

3 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

The question that really should be asked if he was planning on playing a low block today to try and nick a 1-0 nil is why did we rest players against Millwall.

Completely this. The guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. There is no logic in his decisions.  

For example, until recently, Hanley annd Gibson and out injured. But Batth can’t get a game, and he prefers to play Kenny at centre half. Then just as our (arguably) first choice centre halves get back to fitness, he plays Batth, moves Kenny back to MF and drops Rowe in a game against an out of form team that we could / should have beaten and where Rowe could have capitalised. And then brings Rowe back against Southampton but has him pinned in our own half for most of the game.

He’s winging it.  It’s not in the least bit convincing.  But it’s not Wagner I blame.  

Edited January 1 by Kingston Yellow

[Nik Vawn 129]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I don't disagree with anything you've said there, Lakey. It is galling to watch us set up like that, and it is indicative of how far we've fallen. That doesn't stop me from being able to give Wagner a bit of credit for getting something out of a game that looked an away banker on paper.

Still wouldn't object in the slightest if we sacked him tomorrow, though.

I’ve got no allegiance to Wagner, hate the way he chops and changes the spine of the team, but will cut him a bit of slack for the injury situation he has faced, we saw today what a miss Sarg has been . I think we should at least give him a run of games to see if he can turn things round with the greater availability of players that he now has to pick from.

[Jim Smith 2,322]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I don't think many people are 'celebrating' it. Accepting that he employed pragmatic tactics suited to the occasion and got something out the game is more like it.

As you said, it cuts deep that we HAVE to play like that, especially at home, but to castigate Wagner for it is a bit disingenuous when most people (myself included) were predicting a comfortable away win today.

We were losing with his “pragmatic tactics.” It’s a bit strange to suggest those tactics were correct. 

[mrdi 373]

30 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

Completely this. The guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. There is no logic in his decisions.  

He’s winging it.  It’s not in the least bit convincing.  But it’s not Wagner I blame.  

Wagner is absolutely to blame for most things which fall under his remit. Selections, tactics, game management, approach, etc etc. 

The last two games as a microcosm are case in point. For me, he was probably more concerned about the repercussions for him personally of losing at CR today over and above the bigger picture - he approached the Millwall game with today in mind instead of going there to win. I’d have stomached 0pts today if we had an extra 3pts from the previous game on the board. 

Great, so we didn’t get beaten against an in-form team today - BUT we only had 25% possession at home (which is shocking against a fellow Championship opponent) AND our net result from the last two games is at least 2pts less than we should have targeted/expected. And that’s not ‘entitlement’ speaking, either. 

 

Edited January 1 by mrdi

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Now that today “worked” these ARE the tactics.

[lake district canary 4,533]

10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Why have you changed your story ? You used to say the only thing that mattered was winning, and it didn’t matter how you did it.

Id be interested to know why your view has changed and why you slated many posters for saying what you are saying now ?

You even told us we would win nothing without Idah, have you changed your mind on that yet ?

I am dismayed by what has happened over the last two years. The Lambert era, ultra positive times, Hughton kept us up and then the club reacted well getting a positive Adams then Alex Neil, keeping a basis of positivity. We lost a bit of positivity with Alex Neil and got in Farke, leading to more positive times.

What has been positive about the last two years? What did getting Smith, then Wagner do? Wagner has had a year and we set up today like we are at the bottom of the table. 

So yes, I may have changed a bit - with good reason. We are not where we ought to be - a club with a good manager where we can see ongoing development. Today confirmed that for me - some might think it was necessary or even a sensible gameplan to sit back from the first whistle, but I don't. 

[tea total 79]

19 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe we had to be so negative at the start of the match. People say we had to play like that, but I don't agree. In the two years since Farke left, we have had no apparent plan, no recognisable way of playing that is likely to work and here we are playing as if we are a relegation team hoping to somehow hold back a good side. Is that really where we are as a club? 

People say the place was like a library today for large parts of the game - no surprise there, given the meek tactics. And yes I would have preferred to lose today than watch my team sit back 11 behind the ball from the first minute. 

 

I couldn't agree with you more long term vision but at this moment in time, and with the players on offer, I thought the tactics were okay. We gained a point so that's a positive at this moment in time 😊

[The Real Buh 3,444]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I am dismayed by what has happened over the last two years. The Lambert era, ultra positive times, Hughton kept us up and then the club reacted well getting a positive Adams then Alex Neil, keeping a basis of positivity. We lost a bit of positivity with Alex Neil and got in Farke, leading to more positive times.

What has been positive about the last two years? What did getting Smith, then Wagner do? Wagner has had a year and we set up today like we are at the bottom of the table. 

So yes, I may have changed a bit - with good reason. We are not where we ought to be - a club with a good manager where we can see ongoing development. Today confirmed that for me - some might think it was necessary or even a sensible gameplan to sit back from the first whistle, but I don't. 

Preach

[tea total 79]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Now that today “worked” these ARE the tactics.

Another post with substance 👍

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

I have mixed feelings about this. After two very poor defeats Wagner clearly wanted to stop the rot, so I kind of understand trying to not lose the game against an in form Southampton.

On the flip side you have to wonder what would have happened if we had been more positive from the off, would we have won, would Southampton have picked us off easier, we will never know.

Still want Wagner gone but ot going to get too downbeat over a draw against Southampton.........

[Europe_93 11]

Wagner is at the wheel and we are on the road to nowhere…..

Today a decent result, but will be viewed as half glass empty, that’s down to the defeats preceding it….  He’s presided over two awful runs, and has lost the trust of the fans….

now we wait….

[Monty13 2,235]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Ok to be pragmatic, but that does lead on to make you think what has the last two years been about?  Wagner himself has had a year to instill a way of playing that is competitive - and I don't think shutting up shop from the kick off demonstates anything other than an admission that you have no solution to how to be competitive with a good squad of players - and we do have we good squad.  

For me we should have been doing what Martin has been doing at swansea then southampton - schooling the players to play one or two touch football with movement and speed. What has the last year - or even two years been about? 

Great we got a draw today, but we only got that because we opened up and went for it!!! Playing reactively for 70 minutes with 11 men behind the ball from kick off is not what should be happening at home.

Getting to the point of starting to undo those years I think? Which is, I hope, about to start given the dominoes that are being set up in terms of Attanasio and Knapper. 

I’m relatively patient personally because you can start to see it. Might be a bit more annoyed if we get to the end of January without any obvious signs of what’s to come. However I don’t see the point in getting overly frustrated with Wagner continuing to Wagner right now.

[Morph 19]

12 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Getting to the point of starting to undo those years I think? Which is, I hope, about to start given the dominoes that are being set up in terms of Attanasio and Knapper. 

I’m relatively patient personally because you can start to see it. Might be a bit more annoyed if we get to the end of January without any obvious signs of what’s to come. However I don’t see the point in getting overly frustrated with Wagner continuing to Wagner right now.

So @Monty13 do you see the season as a right off whilst Knapper and Attanasio get their ducks in a row?

Where then does it leave the club in terms of rebuilding with several over 30s on longish contracts?

[The Real Buh 3,444]

1 minute ago, Morph said:

So @Monty13 do you see the season as a right off whilst Knapper and Attanasio get their ducks in a row?

Where then does it leave the club in terms of rebuilding with several over 30s on longish contracts?

Also, quick note, all players of value will of course be sold at the end of the season including Rowe/Sara etc etc 

[Monty13 2,235]

5 minutes ago, Morph said:

So @Monty13 do you see the season as a right off whilst Knapper and Attanasio get their ducks in a row?

Where then does it leave the club in terms of rebuilding with several over 30s on longish contracts?

Not a write off no, I’ve said elsewhere if we stay in contention the next few games I can see us sneaking in the playoffs.

I just feel there’s a lot that needs to be done (or undone) but all the noises from Attanasio and Knapper seemed good to me. I’m waiting to see what that noise actually turns into in terms of this January, before passing any further judgment.

Probably more fundamentally will be how next summer is handled. 

I think there is quite a lot rotten that needs work, I’m not going blame Knapper for not hacking away at it until A) he has a handle on all of it and B) he actually had some ability to change it via the playing squad.

[Big Vince 318]

7 hours ago, Petriix said:

Don't be so naive, we're up against one of the best (and in-form) teams in the league. They're playing so high that we stand a great chance of hitting them on the break and should really be winning. Our tactics today are far more coherent than those we've employed for much of the season and they're pretty much working. 

These are precisely the tactics that would be required in the EPL if ever the day arrived where Norwich were able to compete at that level. If you want EPL beyond just the one season, this is the route down which the club will have to go because Farkeball and all variations of it will lead to instant relegation. Fans need to get tuned into reality. Playing good football is not what it's all about.

[AJ 1,222]

The reality is pinching a point against 3rd at home is actually a good result for us. We're 20 points behind the front runners at the halfway point of the season.

We've lost 11, that's roughly 3 times more than the top 3 have lost at this point.

The squad hasn't really moved forward from last season, it still lacks the genuine quality and depth required to be good enough at this level.

I still think we've probably got enough in the tank to make a charge for the playoffs given we're only 5 points adrift somehow and a point today might be valuable in the long run. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

15 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

These are precisely the tactics that would be required in the EPL if ever the day arrived where Norwich were able to compete at that level. If you want EPL beyond just the one season, this is the route down which the club will have to go because Farkeball and all variations of it will lead to instant relegation. Fans need to get tuned into reality. Playing good football is not what it's all about.

Exactly. That's what Chris Houghton tried to do and Dean Smith tried to do to keep us up. Daniel Farke didn't and we got our worst points haul since 1903.

[Sufyellow 222]

6 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

It cuts deep that we played that way and that we HAD to play that way.

Those celebrating and giving Wagner a pat on the back? No thanks.

Its a real marker of how far we’ve fallen and there’s so many that would be happy to see us fall further.

Don't blame wagner , blame webber. I thought with the players he had that was a decent plan and a good point. When Sargent came on it was the closest to the team I would pick. How ever I would still like us to get a cdm and have 4 at the back .