Stadia development

[NewNestCarrow 202]

1 minute ago, RobJames said:

What rot.

Are Sheff Weds or Derby any higher in this measures you quote, than Brentford or Bournemouth ? And the lunacy continues as apparently basic balance sheet figures should be ignored. Short term monetary concerns will be what determines our playing budget next season and who we sign and who we sell - which in consequence will have a huge impact on our season. And guess what ? That is what influences the number of folk who turn up. Not the size of any stand.

It is always very easy spending someone else's money.

Fans spend two hours per fortnight at their home football ground, and yet some demand ever-increasing levels of comfort & facilities.

Football clubs in UK do not have the spare cash to upgrade stands every generation. Yet here we are, with regular complaints about the River End & Main Stand, and expectation that the Magic Dollar Tree will provide.

[Positive_Canary 27]

2 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

They missed the ideal time for redevelopment of the City Stand when the ground was empty due to the pandemic.  Accepting that lockdowns and empty stadia are unlikely to happen again, it’s surely better to do it when crowds are a bit lower as there’s more chance of being able to relocate everyone from the City Stand to other parts of the ground while the work is being done.

You think the pandemic was a good time to build? Are you on something? 

[RobJames 883]

You are entering the Partridge 'monkey tennis' arguments here. Pop concert numbers are governed mostly by the pitch size ie standing room.  Even the back of a fag packet calculations show that at maximum occupancy the building costs would not be covered. That was a few years back. Building cost have since vastly increased, ST prices have not.

The level of risk is not determined by the mindset of the owners but by careful study and calculation by the lenders.  Residential buildings are rock safe. Commercial building has the back up of being used for something else. What happens when like Cardiff it does not generate the income to repay the loan. Convert into flats ?

And are you seriously proposing we take the risk of wrecking our club so as to provide seating to those too fickle to support us when we hit a sticky patch ? This moment, I mean.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,423]

47 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Very difficult to compare between cities like London, Liverpool and Norwich. 

It costs less to purchase the site here, sort out issues like Carrow Road, and lots less to pay contractors, buy concrete etc etc.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that's true. 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

3 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

Currently, plenty of empty seats at every home game.

So no need to worry, right now.

Decent seats still sell out easily. Huddersfield sent back 2 blocks, Southampton 1 block and both sold out easily. Pointing to a few hundred empty single or restricted view seats as evidence of lack of demand is silly. A bigger South Stand would sell out easily on the evidence of blocks not taken by away teams. Plus we still have a season ticket waiting list. 

[Number9 272]

8 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

I'm not sure that's true. 

Do some research & become certain. 

I'll give you a starting point,

Why do so many people live outside London and commute to work there?

 

[RobJames 883]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

Decent seats still sell out easily. Huddersfield sent back 2 blocks, Southampton 1 block and both sold out easily. Pointing to a few hundred empty single or restricted view seats as evidence of lack of demand is silly. A bigger South Stand would sell out easily on the evidence of blocks not taken by away teams. Plus we still have a season ticket waiting list. 

The problem there is those waiting for a season ticket likely be casuals. When the club was in the PL there was no problem in selling restricted view seats. Underpinning the blindingly obvious flaw in the thinking (?) of some on here.

There is no guarantee of where we will be in 2 seasons ahead, never mind 20 years hence.

Clubs like Liverpool are part of a closed shop that pretty much guarantees them PL/ European football. They are like a pub opening the back room to cope with demand on a match day. We are opening the back room without knowing what day of the week it is

[RobJames 883]

5 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Do some research & become certain. 

I'll give you a starting point,

Why do so many people live outside London and commute to work there?

House prices are determined by the demand, not the cost of building them

[NewNestCarrow 202]

15 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

How could we know the amount of the loan, terms of the loan or the timespan of the loan? 

You didn't say whether you included other match day income in your original calculation.

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of increased venue income from pop concerts and the like.

In the meantime, the cost of maintaining an ageing Main Stand will inevitably increase by the season.

It would seem that this debate (and there is no clear-cut answer imo) is gradually becoming one of Delia speak versus Annatasio speak.  I wonder how much the latter has borrowed in the course of making his millions.

There is risk in all business. There is risk in all business borrowing for expansion. The level of risk is determined by the mind-set of the ownership and the need to borrow within the means. 

 

1. So I'm wrong because we don't know the figures, yet your fag-packet calculations are correct? Well, that's a convincing rebuttal!

It is likely that many of the new seats would be occupied by concessions rather than high-fliers. The demand for executive seats is reflected in the current (wide) availability.

2. I very much doubt that concerts at NCFC are limited due to stadium size. Licensing, pitch-wear, hotel-availability & decent transport links are all likely to be much bigger factors.

As for luxury, the middle-aged hamper & champers set will flock to open fields to watch Tom Jones & the like (not to mention Glasto & Latitude) so not sure that strengthens the business case.

3. When Attanasio sells NCFC do you think he will get a better price if a) the club are in the PL with a 27k stadium or b) if the club are in the Champs with a 35k stadium? 

And 4. How much is Attanasio likely to spend on the upcoming $850m refurb of the Brewers stadium in Milwaukee? Is it a) most b) half c) less than 15%. [If you don't know the answer then you don't appreciate how most successful businessmen operate]

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

4 hours ago, Darth Vadis said:

Crystal Palace's new 13,500 stand estimated to cost an eye-watering £150m.

Please,  for the love of God, tell me that's the horrible stand they put the away fans in that they're rebuilding. I'd give em £150M just to tear down those toilets.

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

26 minutes ago, RobJames said:

)(1)You are entering the Partridge 'monkey tennis' arguments here. Pop concert numbers are governed mostly by the pitch size ie standing room.  Even the back of a fag packet calculations show that at maximum occupancy the building costs would not be covered. That was a few years back. Building cost have since vastly increased, ST prices have not.

The level of risk is not determined (2)by the mindset of the owners but by careful study and calculation by the lenders.  Residential buildings are rock safe. Commercial building has the back up of being used for something else. What happens when like Cardiff it does not generate the income to repay the loan. Convert into flats ?

(3) And are you seriously proposing we take the risk of wrecking our club so as to provide seating to those too fickle to support us when we hit a sticky patch ? This moment, I mean.

(1) Thanks, I assumed it was a civilised discussion.

(2) The level of risk is initially assessed by those seeking the loan, or should be.

(3) Rather an excessive deduction.

None of us can predict the success or otherwise of the team in the coming seasons, but that does not necessarily mean that we have to assume and then plan based upon the worst scenario. NCFC is fairly unique in having little competition in a large county whose population is expanding. It has a firm support proven over many years now (av. 24, 000 in L. 1)

None of us can predict the eventual extent of Annatasio's investment or the extent of the other interests in the club that he has mentioned.

[RobJames 883]

6 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

(1) Thanks, I assumed it was a civilised discussion.

(2) The level of risk is initially assessed by those seeking the loan, or should be.

(3) Rather an excessive deduction.

None of us can predict the success or otherwise of the team in the coming seasons, but that does not necessarily mean that we have to assume and then plan based upon the worst scenario. NCFC is fairly unique in having little competition in a large county whose population is expanding. It has a firm support proven over many years now (av. 24, 000 in L. 1)

None of us can predict the eventual extent of Annatasio's investment or the extent of the other interests in the club that he has mentioned.

It just gets worse.

The development based on the BEST case scenario would require a subsidy every year. See the binners for the worst case - bankruptcy

As it is ultimately the lenders who would fund this, it is up to them how THEY assess the risk. Try to raise a mortgage on your analysis only, so it makes any initial analysis meaningless.

Milton Keynes has a population double that of Norwich. Why are they not filling a stadium twice the size of Carrow Road ?

 

[shefcanary 2,435]

There really is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Some points for consideration. 

Any building project is not expected to pay for itself straight away, but over its useful economic life. You would normally, like any mortgage, expect to repay over a period of 20 to 30 years. The cost of build will be financed; if from an external finance company, expect the total cost including interest to be double to treble the original build cost. 

So, you first would look to see how much you can currently spare towards the project (Delia and Michael have said sod all, so ignore) plus how much you'd ideally expect to generate in new additional income every year. This gives you a capital budget to work with. Sure, there will be few iterations of this calculation as it will be a bit chicken and egg, whilst you work out a comfortable and realistic balance.

So, some ball park figures. Replacing the City Stand with a 10,000 seater gives an extra 7,000 seats. That should generate c£4m income in tickets p.a. The secondary spend plus corporate hospitality income (the current ground is relatively short of such facilities) should generate c.£2m p.a. Throw in naming rights of £1m p.a. and you have new income of £7m p.a. over 30 years, a total of £210m. That should provide a capital build budget of £70 to 100m, depending on how Attanasio decides to finance this (note my accent on Attanasio, we will be using his experience to get the cheapest finance). And hey, we haven't touched the existing playing budget.

Can it be done more cheaply than elsewhere; I think it can given the land around Carrow Road and relatively good access. The access problems at Anfield, Selhurst Park and Craven Cottage that drive up their capital costs can be avoided at Carrow Road.

So does this still sound unfeasible?

I still say the biggest issue is probably the same one that Delia and Michael have been frit of for years - the potential pissing off of the established City Stand'ers. They will have to be relocated during the build and they will have to be carefully looked after so as not to be lost altogether. Some will welcome the potential of better facilities, others will complain bitterly (evidence of this already exists on this thread). 

My thought is Attanasio will want to do this, but probably not until he has gained more control.  I also think he will progress it irrespective of being an established EPL club which was the "false" ceiling criteria placed by Delia & Michael. So, spades in the ground in 2026. Who knows what division we will be in then?

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

40 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

1. So I'm wrong because we don't know the figures, yet your fag-packet calculations are correct? Well, that's a convincing rebuttal!

It is likely that many of the new seats would be occupied by concessions rather than high-fliers. The demand for executive seats is reflected in the current (wide) availability.

2. I very much doubt that concerts at NCFC are limited due to stadium size. Licensing, pitch-wear, hotel-availability & decent transport links are all likely to be much bigger factors.

As for luxury, the middle-aged hamper & champers set will flock to open fields to watch Tom Jones & the like (not to mention Glasto & Latitude) so not sure that strengthens the business case.

3. When Attanasio sells NCFC do you think he will get a better price if a) the club are in the PL with a 27k stadium or b) if the club are in the Champs with a 35k stadium? 

And 4. How much is Attanasio likely to spend on the upcoming $850m refurb of the Brewers stadium in Milwaukee? Is it a) most b) half c) less than 15%. [If you don't know the answer then you don't appreciate how most successful businessmen operate]

Eh? I never mentioned that, but recall that there is considerable public funding included. It's not his only business in any case.

1. So I'm wrong because we don't know the figures, yet your fag-packet calculations are correct? Well, that's a convincing rebuttal!

Hackneyed, but I'll nevertheless respond in the same way. We are all doing fag packet calculations, and I never claimed they were any more correct than your own. 

None of us can possibly have access to the bottom line, even if we did know the extent of any possible plans for expansion.

Also, I said "pop concerts and the like."

Bristol City have spent a fortune on Ashton Gate in recent years. They seem positive it is money well spent despite having a history of top flight football dating further back than the Binner's hey days.:

"Ashton Gate Stadium provides the ultimate meeting and events experience. A premier conference and events venue, our stadium features a wide range of modern function rooms for both corporate and private hire.

As one the largest event spaces in the South West, Ashton Gate has a room or area to meet all possible requirements – from wedding receptions, corporate annual dinners and exhibitions to team building activities and pitchside stage events." 

Despite limiting its capacity for football games to 27, 000 and interestingly to over 30, 000 for some other evnets. 

However, they also share it with the Premiership RU Bears and Premiership Rugby.

Bristol is of course a far bigger City than Norwich, but they share support with Bristol Rovers and have more competition from RU.. I am unsure of the relevant catchments.

[RobJames 883]

6 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

There really is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Some points for consideration. 

Any building project is not expected to pay for itself straight away, but over its useful economic life. You would normally, like any mortgage, expect to repay over a period of 20 to 30 years. The cost of build will be financed; if from an external finance company, expect the total cost including interest to be double to treble the original build cost. 

So, you first would look to see how much you can currently spare towards the project (Delia and Michael have said sod all, so ignore) plus how much you'd ideally expect to generate in new additional income every year. This gives you a capital budget to work with. Sure, there will be few iterations of this calculation as it will be a bit chicken and egg, whilst you work out a comfortable and realistic balance.

So, some ball park figures. Replacing the City Stand with a 10,000 seater gives an extra 7,000 seats. That should generate c£4m income in tickets p.a. The secondary spend plus corporate hospitality income (the current ground is relatively short of such facilities) should generate c.£2m p.a. Throw in naming rights of £1m p.a. and you have new income of £7m p.a. over 30 years, a total of £210m. That should provide a capital build budget of £70 to 100m, depending on how Attanasio decides to finance this (note my accent on Attanasio, we will be using his experience to get the cheapest finance). And hey, we haven't touched the existing playing budget.

Can it be done more cheaply than elsewhere; I think it can given the land around Carrow Road and relatively good access. The access problems at Anfield, Selhurst Park and Craven Cottage that drive up their capital costs can be avoided at Carrow Road.

So does this still sound unfeasible?

I still say the biggest issue is probably the same one that Delia and Michael have been frit of for years - the potential pissing off of the established City Stand'ers. They will have to be relocated during the build and they will have to be carefully looked after so as not to be lost altogether. Some will welcome the potential of better facilities, others will complain bitterly (evidence of this already exists on this thread). 

My thought is Attanasio will want to do this, but probably not until he has gained more control.  I also think he will progress it irrespective of being an established EPL club which was the "false" ceiling criteria placed by Delia & Michael. So, spades in the ground in 2026. Who knows what division we will be in then?

As with one other you seem to be under the delusion that we would have maximum capacity for the next 20 years. Lending against residential/commercial property is low risk as were the repayment not met the lender has a sellable 'item'. What would a lender do with a football stand if we defaulted ?

As to pissing off the City Stand STs that is ludicrous as it would be 'lesser souls' who would be moved out to accommodate them. Were we to hit a similar patch as now over the suggested 20 years we would have to increase the subsidy, liley leading to a down turn in on pitch performance leading to a decrease in attendance. Something that is played out ein so many clubs elsewhere.

But hey. We are NCFC and our history has been of top flight status, so that could never happen. The reality is that once things take a turn for the worse, fans melt away. Look down the road where a 30,000 stadium dropped to less than half capacity.

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

29 minutes ago, RobJames said:

It just gets worse.

The development based on the BEST case scenario would require a subsidy every year. See the binners for the worst case - bankruptcy

As it is ultimately the lenders who would fund this, it is up to them how THEY assess the risk. Try to raise a mortgage on your analysis only, so it makes any initial analysis meaningless.

Milton Keynes has a population double that of Norwich. Why are they not filling a stadium twice the size of Carrow Road ?

 

It just 'gets worse' he states and then compares Norwich with Milton Keynes, a new town with no history of football who have hardly even existed at Championship level for long and have nearby Luton as established rivals.

I notice you use the City population of Norwich rather than the Urban population, which would have been a more realistic comparison of population size and ignore the wider catchment and the fact Norwich is the only club in Norfolk previously mentioned.  

I said the borrowers "initially" assess the risk before even applying for any loan. Whether one would be forthcoming or not is another matter.

[RobJames 883]

17 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Eh? I never mentioned that, but recall that there is considerable public funding included. It's not his only business in any case.

1. So I'm wrong because we don't know the figures, yet your fag-packet calculations are correct? Well, that's a convincing rebuttal!

Hackneyed, but I'll nevertheless respond in the same way. We are all doing fag packet calculations, and I never claimed they were any more correct than your own. 

None of us can possibly have access to the bottom line, even if we did know the extent of any possible plans for expansion.

Also, I said "pop concerts and the like."

Bristol City have spent a fortune on Ashton Gate in recent years. They seem positive it is money well spent despite having a history of top flight football dating further back than the Binner's hey days.:

"Ashton Gate Stadium provides the ultimate meeting and events experience. A premier conference and events venue, our stadium features a wide range of modern function rooms for both corporate and private hire.

As one the largest event spaces in the South West, Ashton Gate has a room or area to meet all possible requirements – from wedding receptions, corporate annual dinners and exhibitions to team building activities and pitchside stage events." 

Despite limiting its capacity for football games to 27, 000 and interestingly to over 30, 000 for some other evnets. 

However, they also share it with the Premiership RU Bears and Premiership Rugby.

Bristol is of course a far bigger City than Norwich, but they share support with Bristol Rovers and have more competition from RU.. I am unsure of the relevant catchments.

We are back to monkey tennis, as you desperately try to cling to your Sinclair C5.

Why have Bristol City only expanded to 27,000 ? Perhaps unlike you, they are aware of the demand. Despite being in a City many times the size of Norwich. The facilities you waflle about have been at Carrow Road since way back. Ashtom Gate was a 1970's type ground.

Now come up with something that refutes tge clubs reason for not wasting ,millions offering seats to fickle fans.

[Flying Dutchman 744]

4 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

They missed the ideal time for redevelopment of the City Stand when the ground was empty due to the pandemic.  Accepting that lockdowns and empty stadia are unlikely to happen again, it’s surely better to do it when crowds are a bit lower as there’s more chance of being able to relocate everyone from the City Stand to other parts of the ground while the work is being done.

No, they didn't. 

As I work in the construction industry I can tell you that this would have been nowhere near enough time to have this completed.

Also, we didn't know how long it was going to last anyway. It was smarter to not commit to something like an expansion during this time.

People need to stop using the pandemic as an example of 'when they could have got it done', because it isn't even close. It's just shows you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about.

[RobJames 883]

3 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

It just 'gets worse' he states and then compares Norwich with Milton Keynes, a new town with no history of football who have hardly even existed at Championship level for long and have nearby Luton as established rivals.

I notice you use the City population of Norwich rather than the Urban population, which would have been a more realistic comparison of population size and ignore the wider catchment and the fact Norwich is the only club in Norfolk previously mentioned.  

I said the borrowers "initially" assess the risk before even applying for any loan. Whether one would be forthcoming or not is another matter.

Charlton have a long history, have a huge catchment area, and.......

Compare Norfolks population, many retirees, with those living within 20-30 mile of Milton Keynes.

" Whether one would be forthcoming or not is another matter."

I think that says all we need to know about your fantasy

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

1 minute ago, RobJames said:

We are back to monkey tennis, as you desperately try to cling to your Sinclair C5.

(1)Why have Bristol City only expanded to 27,000 ? Perhaps unlike you, they are aware of the demand. Despite being in a City many times the size of Norwich. The facilities you waflle about have been at Carrow Road since way back. Ashtom Gate was a 1970's type ground.

(2) Now come up with something that refutes tge clubs reason for not wasting ,millions offering seats to fickle fans.

For football, not concerts. Income.

(1) I have already mentioned the competition from Bristol Rovers and from Premiership RU.

(2) I assumed that you had been reading this thread, despite the need to come up with cheap jibes about monkey tennis or something.

[Greavsy 2,418]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

For football, not concerts. Income.

(1) I have already mentioned the competition from Bristol Rovers and from Premiership RU.

(2) I assumed that you had been reading this thread, despite the need to come up with cheap jibes about monkey tennis or something.

Jeez. 

This place gets worse......

[NewNestCarrow 202]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

There really is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Some points for consideration. 

Any building project is not expected to pay for itself straight away, but over its useful economic life. You would normally, like any mortgage, expect to repay over a period of 20 to 30 years. The cost of build will be financed; if from an external finance company, expect the total cost including interest to be double to treble the original build cost. 

So, you first would look to see how much you can currently spare towards the project (Delia and Michael have said sod all, so ignore) plus how much you'd ideally expect to generate in new additional income every year. This gives you a capital budget to work with. Sure, there will be few iterations of this calculation as it will be a bit chicken and egg, whilst you work out a comfortable and realistic balance.

So, some ball park figures. Replacing the City Stand with a 10,000 seater gives an extra 7,000 seats. That should generate c£4m income in tickets p.a. The secondary spend plus corporate hospitality income (the current ground is relatively short of such facilities) should generate c.£2m p.a. Throw in naming rights of £1m p.a. and you have new income of £7m p.a. over 30 years, a total of £210m. That should provide a capital build budget of £70 to 100m, depending on how Attanasio decides to finance this (note my accent on Attanasio, we will be using his experience to get the cheapest finance). And hey, we haven't touched the existing playing budget.

Can it be done more cheaply than elsewhere; I think it can given the land around Carrow Road and relatively good access. The access problems at Anfield, Selhurst Park and Craven Cottage that drive up their capital costs can be avoided at Carrow Road.

 

i fear your figures are overly optimistic.

All NCFC ticket income last season was £10m, and so I really don't see how increasing capacity by 26% (7,000 seats) will increase ticket income by 40% (£4m). Or will you be hiking ticket prices?

There is no shortage of Corp hospitality at CR but, judging by the availability of most home games this season, there is certainly a shortage of customers willing to pay for it!

Naming rights of £1m p.a? i would be amazed if Jarrold or Regency paid anywhere near that. 

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

1 minute ago, RobJames said:

Charlton have a long history, have a huge catchment area, and.......

Compare Norfolks population, many retirees, with those living within 20-30 mile of Milton Keynes.

" Whether one would be forthcoming or not is another matter."

I think that says all we need to know about your fantasy

How's that?.

It actually just refers back to the basic tenet of this discussion, which is about whether NCFC should consider stadium expansion.

We wouldn't know how much or what collateral Annatasio & Co. would be prepared to offer, how much of a loan would be needed, or who the proposed lenders might be in any case.

[TIL 1010 4,773]

I keep reading that there is a waiting list but i am pretty confident in saying that if you require just the one ticket there is no such waiting list. However if you want two or more tickets together or in a specific stand you will have to wait until your preference can be met.

[Naturalcynic 642]

36 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

No, they didn't. 

As I work in the construction industry I can tell you that this would have been nowhere near enough time to have this completed.

Also, we didn't know how long it was going to last anyway. It was smarter to not commit to something like an expansion during this time.

People need to stop using the pandemic as an example of 'when they could have got it done', because it isn't even close. It's just shows you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about.

Most people on here have zero idea of what they’re talking about most of the time, but that’s internet message boards for you.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i Wonder if MA could get a Big company to foot the bill and have a named stadium ?

one thing i think we need to work on is bigger name sponsors i think MA will be better on that front , 

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

2 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i Wonder if MA could get a Big company to foot the bill and have a named stadium ?

one thing i think we need to work on is bigger name sponsors i think MA will be better on that front , 

Disney might be interested in sponsoring the Main Stand and call it:

"The Mickey Mouse Stand."

[Grando 263]

16 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Disney might be interested in sponsoring the Main Stand and call it:

"The Mickey Mouse Stand."

Or, closer to home, Bernard Matthews and ‘The Turkey Stand’.

[Darth Vadis 151]

5 hours ago, BigFish said:

Hey @Darth Vadis, I don't subscibe so why so much for Palace please?

I always had a £2.5k per seat figure in mind which would give £30/40m, but inflation probably makes this out of date,

Hi @BigFish, the article states there are a number of reasons for the high cost. Palace had an initial budget of £100m in 2017, but has risen to £150m primarily because of inflation.

They also had to come to an agreement with Sainsbury's about the purchase of land, which ended up costing several million pounds. We obviously would not have this issue as Ben Kensell stated a few years ago we were able to purchase two? parcels of land behind the City & Barclay stands for something like £500k? Cannot remember the exact figures.

Palace also had to find new housing for residents who live within the footprint of the proposed new stand. Again, not an issue for us.

They also had to sign an agreement under section 106 of the town and country planning act which would see them committed to spending between £700k - £1m of community improvements.

Something else worth noting is that Steve Parish predicts this new stand to provide an extra £20-£30m each season. How this is possible I'm not sure. 

Finally, modern stadium development is no longer focussed on how many seats you can squeeze into a new stand, but rather the whole 'experience'. A new main stand with "concrete floors, breeze block walls, roller shutters from an industrial site and a couple of beer taps" will cost a lot less than the level of quality and finish than is now expected. It is all about bringing in revenue 7 days a week, rather than a couple of hours on a saturday. Or at the least, getting supporters in a few hours earlier on a Saturday, and keeping them a few hours after. Spurs matchday revenue went from £48m to £108m after they moved into their new ground (yes I know it cost them a billion). Fulham's new stand will have a hotel (that brings in money for the club, not like our poxy holiday inn), health club, and rooftop pool. Palace will have a museum in theirs. 

Apologies for going off on a tangent there - basically the ridiculous cost for new stadium development is the increase in the price of concrete and steel. But the need for world-class corporate hospitality has added to that number too.

 

 

[percy varco 199]

The empty seat scenario has always been the reason. Hence the Hotel, a short term view to get cash in. 
Another tier to the main stand has had plans for years, the longer it is left the higher the cost and it is not proportionate to time. 
very little old Norwich, too worried to invest in the future. 
We are a pay as you go club when football is well past that mentality. 
Speculate to accumulate.