Could Farke have turned it around?

[kingsway 94]

No!

 

Farke was going through the same motions in his second go at the Premier League as he did in his first and didn't seem to want or know how to change tactics.

 

Therefore the club were fully justified in gambling on a replacement being able to turn the team around.

 

Great manager but lets be sensible, the signings were not working out, we were very poor so he wouldn't have kept us up that season!

Edited December 15, 2023 by kingsway

[Petriix 2,839]

4 minutes ago, duke63 said:

49 EPL games, 6 wins, conceded over 100 goals and only scored 30ish? That would take a massive change in direction to turn it around. And a completely different playing style. 

Great manager in the Championship, not a clue at the highest level. 

It will be interesting to see what happens if he gets Leeds promoted.

Farke's Premier League record is irrelevant because he never had a Premier League squad to work with. 

[duke63 542]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We were atrocious in the PL because we didn't have good enough players or enough money to get them. So Farke, who was the manager that got us to the PL TWICE, was the scapegoat for the situation of the club as a whole. Webber was never going to sack himself and therein lies the problem. People in power nearly always find someone below them who can take the blame. 

He didn't change his style even though that was desperately needed. Any manager has to work with the players they have. That has always been the case. Most supporters at the time knew Farke's time was up. I remember being at the Chelsea 7-0 where they had so much room because Max and Dimi were playing as wingers often ahead of Teemu. But he didn't change it even though it was embarrassing to watch.

[duke63 542]

Just now, Petriix said:

Farke's Premier League record is irrelevant because he never had a Premier League squad to work with. 

And that has not changed since. And probably never will now unless Attanasio digs very very deep into his pockets.

So why would any club carry on trying the same thing over and over and be surprised when the result is still the same?

[Petriix 2,839]

11 minutes ago, duke63 said:

And that has not changed since. And probably never will now unless Attanasio digs very very deep into his pockets.

So why would any club carry on trying the same thing over and over and be surprised when the result is still the same?

That's my point: the result is not a surprise, nor is it a failure. The failure is to not understand the reality and to expect to be able to sack your best manager this century and somehow find a better replacement.

Trading Buendia for Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis was the real failure. 

[chicken 2,627]

24 minutes ago, Petriix said:

That's my point: the result is not a surprise, nor is it a failure. The failure is to not understand the reality and to expect to be able to sack your best manager this century and somehow find a better replacement.

Trading Buendia for Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis was the real failure. 

Incorrect.

"Different".

Also, "Best manager this century" is incredibly debatable. In terms of achievement Lambert arguably succeeded with one bite of the cherry where Farke took two.

And Farke was part of a recruitment team that had vastly more money to spend.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

13 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Wagner has been shown some faith. If Farke had been shown a similar amount of faith, could he too have seen some improvement in results?

PS - I dont really care if merely the existence of this question triggers the right people. If you dont like the question you can always ignore the post...

Yes. The problem was Webber not Farke

[Monty13 2,235]

No. The players just weren’t good enough. We sold our best player and in turn neutered our star striker.

Even if he’d reverted to the system at Brentford for the rest of season I don’t think he’d have really done any better than Smith overall, and I don’t think it would have been accepted by supporters over an entire season.

[Monty13 2,235]

 

54 minutes ago, Petriix said:

That's my point: the result is not a surprise, nor is it a failure. The failure is to not understand the reality and to expect to be able to sack your best manager this century and somehow find a better replacement.

Trading Buendia for Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis was the real failure. 

IMO Farkes failure was buying into it.

Don’t disagree with your sentiment but this is subjective, because he objectively wasn’t.

 

[duke63 542]

Best manager in the Championship but probably worst manager in the EPL. If Farke was still here now I suspect we would be lower than we are now and less competitive. Every manager runs out of ideas and has a limited shelf life. And every opposition manager eventually works out the manager who does the same thing over and over. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

One season with a team of youngsters and a load of misfits who had no right to even win the league.  To play in a season where we stopped and started again without fans . With a 3 million investment. We are a mid championship club , that is it . 

That's not what the people bemoaning how awful we were in the Premier League felt.

[Walcombe canary 69]

I have voted No. On the basis that he was not given the players. And the Tactics / style of Football was great, but not up against the mega money Prem big boys. We have to remember. We are not wealthy in comparison.

OTBC

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, duke63 said:

He didn't change his style even though that was desperately needed. Any manager has to work with the players they have. That has always been the case. Most supporters at the time knew Farke's time was up. I remember being at the Chelsea 7-0 where they had so much room because Max and Dimi were playing as wingers often ahead of Teemu. But he didn't change it even though it was embarrassing to watch.

To change his style he would need to change the whole team,  first time he had 3 million,  2nd time they bought kids. We have seen what happens when you try and change style with the wrong players.  

. 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, duke63 said:

49 EPL games, 6 wins, conceded over 100 goals and only scored 30ish? That would take a massive change in direction to turn it around. And a completely different playing style. 

Great manager in the Championship, not a clue at the highest level. 

It will be interesting to see what happens if he gets Leeds promoted.

He will be able to buy 30 million pound players instead of 8 million pound youngsters. 

[Sufyellow 222]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's not what the people bemoaning how awful we were in the Premier League felt.

We weren't that awful,  several games we were getting close to results , some of you just couldn't except we are a mid championship club. 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We were atrocious in the PL because we didn't have good enough players or enough money to get them. So Farke, who was the manager that got us to the PL TWICE, was the scapegoat for the situation of the club as a whole. Webber was never going to sack himself and therein lies the problem. People in power nearly always find someone below them who can take the blame. 

Were we that atrocious? Brighton home , Leicester home , Leeds home , we were close in all of them , and stupid individual mistakes, then arsenal,  Burnley, Brentford away , that's six of them we could of got more. Chelsea ,man City, Liverpool and Watford,  we weren't in it . 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, kingsway said:

No!

 

Farke was going through the same motions in his second go at the Premier League as he did in his first and didn't seem to want or know how to change tactics.

 

Therefore the club were fully justified in gambling on a replacement being able to turn the team around.

 

Great manager but lets be sensible, the signings were not working out, we were very poor so he wouldn't have kept us up that season!

Was that when he went to 5 at the back to try and make a rubbish group of players competitive. He wouldn't of kept us up , but I am sure we would of had some sort of style by the end of the season,  and at least have competed in games . 

[BroadstairsR 2,174]

Farke had his style of play, his systems and his methods and he schooled his players in these. He was rigid, and perhaps a bit too much so when confronted with the best the Premier League had to throw at him.

Have these not the things we've been craving for under Smith and now Wagner?

However, later Webber was to later admit he sent him into 'battle without a gun' (or similar) so keeping that side up was a difficult task to begin with.

The second time around? Well! How much input did DF have in that disastrous Summer's dealings (the Sarge has come good though) or do we blame Webber again? These are questions that cannot be answered considering our perpetual financial restrictions which meant we had to sell our best,that  big signings were out, and even then we needed to stretch our wages bill beyond our capabilities, something we are still burdened with.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.  We managed just that with ease (x4 times.) Perhaps things are about to change, it seems they might well be.

I have no particular beef against Leeds or their fans as unsavoury as they have been in the past*, so I am hoping Farke gets them up, especially if it is at the expense of the BInners.

 

[Well b back 3,209]

At the time I did not want him sacked and would have thought if he can’t turn it around he would get us promoted again.

With hindsight he is struggling to get a Leeds team in the auto places and should surely be up there points wise with Leicester and the binners. One assumes if Leeds don’t go up he will be out.

I also now wonder how much we relied on Emi and Teemu. When either we’re out injured, he struggled to change our tactics in anyway and we lost most of those games.

[Ulfotto 635]

3 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Have these not the things we've been craving for under Smith and now Wagner?

Smith not so much but Wagner has a definite style and system of play. 

[BroadstairsR 2,174]

Just now, Ulfotto said:

Smith not so much but Wagner has a definite style and system of play. 

Except that it hardly ever seems to involve the same starting eleven two games in a row which I assume is fundamental, and furthermore his team selections have been very hit-and-miss to say the least.

("In, out, in out shake it all about.")

I'm hoping he keeps the same starting eleven today that managed three against Sheff. Wed., but I'm not banking on it.

[Capt. Pants 4,245]

54 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Except that it hardly ever seems to involve the same starting eleven two games in a row which I assume is fundamental, and furthermore his team selections have been very hit-and-miss to say the least.

("In, out, in out shake it all about.")

I'm hoping he keeps the same starting eleven today that managed three against Sheff. Wed., but I'm not banking on it.

I don't have an issue with Wagner changing the starting XI per se, or making substitutions. If anything Farke was the complete opposite and was often criticised for not bringing subs on. He seems to have changed a bit at Leeds. The acid test will be how he and Leeds can force a top 2 finish as they look to be coming up short.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Firing Daniel Farke was the single biggest mistake in our teams recent history along with singing him and giving him time being the biggest success.

Doubt he could have kept us up as Webber pissed the money up the wall but we would certainly not be in the mess we are in now.
But then, Premierleague is a sack of sh1te anyway, real footballs being played in the Championship so maybe this spell of rubbish just saves ourselves from 1 good season 1 bad season yoyo play. 
I do feel since being relegated again we have lost a lot of stock and are no longer an attractive club.
The media put the bullet in us long before the season begun and i think a lot of players would think twice about joining us now whereas we were a good club with a good rep. 

[komakino 272]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Farke had his style of play, his systems and his methods and he schooled his players in these. He was rigid, and perhaps a bit too much so when confronted with the best the Premier League had to throw at him.

Have these not the things we've been craving for under Smith and now Wagner?

However, later Webber was to later admit he sent him into 'battle without a gun' (or similar) so keeping that side up was a difficult task to begin with.

The second time around? Well! How much input did DF have in that disastrous Summer's dealings (the Sarge has come good though) or do we blame Webber again? These are questions that cannot be answered considering our perpetual financial restrictions which meant we had to sell our best,that  big signings were out, and even then we needed to stretch our wages bill beyond our capabilities, something we are still burdened with.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.  We managed just that with ease (x4 times.) Perhaps things are about to change, it seems they might well be.

I have no particular beef against Leeds or their fans as unsavoury as they have been in the past*, so I am hoping Farke gets them up, especially if it is at the expense of the BInners.

 

I think in Michael Bailey's piece in The Athletic after his sacking suggested that none of Farke's targets were met for the last EPL campaign and he told Webber the players he had bought were not good enough. That was never going to end well in retrospect. 

[chicken 2,627]

No. Not even close. Sorry to those who think otherwise. One win in 11 games. More than that if you take into account project restart and beyond in terms of premier league.

There is an argument that we should have kept him to then bounce back with but that's no guarantee either. Even if so, then what? Sack him upon promotion? Go again and expect a different result on the third time of asking?

Leeds represents his biggest success so far since leaving us. He's in charge of a freshly relegated side with a strong squad.

Great manager with us but I believe fairly overrated by some sections of the support. Good, yes, but walk on water miracles, no.

[duke63 542]

Leeds fans moaning that Farke doesn’t have a plan B tonight. 
Sounds familiar. 

[Barham Blitz 653]

10 hours ago, Well b back said:

With hindsight he is struggling to get a Leeds team in the auto places and should surely be up there points wise with Leicester and the binners. One assumes if Leeds don’t go up he will be out.

Leeds were an absolute basket case pre- and early season.  The general consensus amongst Leeds fans was that he had done an amazing job to turn it around so quickly.

But then again they are one of the most entitled fan bases in the country so that opinion is highly likely to change if they end up adrift of second.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

As much as I adored Farke and was always dead against the idea of sacking him that season, I don't think he would've kept us up.

However, he wouldn't have finished in the bottom half last season either, and I believe he was the perfect fit for us and keeping him was the best long-term option. I don't think anything will ever change my mind on that.

[king canary 7,609]

7 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said:

Leeds were an absolute basket case pre- and early season.  The general consensus amongst Leeds fans was that he had done an amazing job to turn it around so quickly.

But then again they are one of the most entitled fan bases in the country so that opinion is highly likely to change if they end up adrift of second.

Just had a little glance at their fans on twitter. He isn't popular tonight.

[Midlands Yellow 3,994]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

No. Not even close. Sorry to those who think otherwise. One win in 11 games. More than that if you take into account project restart and beyond in terms of premier league.

There is an argument that we should have kept him to then bounce back with but that's no guarantee either. Even if so, then what? Sack him upon promotion? Go again and expect a different result on the third time of asking?

Leeds represents his biggest success so far since leaving us. He's in charge of a freshly relegated side with a strong squad.

Great manager with us but I believe fairly overrated by some sections of the support. Good, yes, but walk on water miracles, no.

No mention on Webber’s recruitment which was shocking first time round and amateurish on the second at PL level. 

His brief this season is to get Leeds promoted so let’s wait and see. If it’s achieved he’ll thankfully not have clueless  Webber doing the recruitment next summer.