Knapper doesn’t need more time

[rock bus 854]

I’ve read a few posts suggestioning Knapper needs more time to settle in and  assess the situation before sacking Wagner.

Initially I agreed with this, mainly because he is inexperienced in the role and I have concerns if he has the  contacts needed to attract a decent manager.

But the reality is we can’t just keep stumbling on with Wagner, throwing away another 2 goal lead at least partly due to his inadequacies as a coach means he needs to go now. It is hard to believe that the players still have faith in him and his ability to turn things around, and the fans certainly don’t.

I don’t think that Knapper has to rush into appointing the new permanent manager before Christmas as we need to get the right person. But at this stage I struggle to see how any caretaker (such as Neil Adam’s or….and I can’t believe I’m saying this Andy Hughes!) could do any worse than Wagner. Who knows we might even unveil a Gary Oneil caretaker who does enough to earn the job permanently.

we definitely need a n immediate change though.

[Barry Brockes 148]

Surely Knapper will have seen videos of all our games this season or been there in person before he took up his appointment. If that didn't provide sufficient evidence for him to know how the land lies and to decide a way forward the games since he's been here must have confirmed his views. Whether he'll be allowed to act on his plans or turns out to be a Board puppet only time will tell.

[Bert 236]

He is out of his depth that was clear even before the appointment 

unfortunately he is like a rabbit caught in the head lights 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

Too many different threads on here for any sensible discussion.

However - I've chosen this one.

I'm fed up with the usual suspects picking on one or other player for all our woes - Onel and Long seem to be the current scapegoats. Whereas neither had good matches at least Argos tried. The problem is not the individual players.

No - My concern is that there is something rotten at the heart of the club - the player moral has gone - they got themselves deservedly or not into a two goal lead (Hwang looks deadly), but add a  little pressure or a set back and it seemed the team imploded - supposedly professional footballers unable to pass, run, find space, mark or frankly be bothered.

I suspect many are actually in state of mind where they've lost belief and are simply treading water until something changes or better comes along. 

Maybe there are disruptive factions squabbling in the club. Maybe the recent board changes or the Manager has lost the dressing room. However, ultimately Wagner seems unable to sort the problem or find a cohesive team at least equal to the sum of it parts.

Something has to change - I'd say it is time for Wagner to go. We need a no nonsense old timer who knows how to get the best out of players - settle the ship. We don't need to gamble again this season on a manager with something to prove. We need a doctor manager and the surgical removal of diseased parts if necessary! Play for the team and club or get out.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Channon’s Windmill 334]

29 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I’ve read a few posts suggestioning Knapper needs more time to settle in and  assess the situation before sacking Wagner.

Initially I agreed with this, mainly because he is inexperienced in the role and I have concerns if he has the  contacts needed to attract a decent manager.

But the reality is we can’t just keep stumbling on with Wagner, throwing away another 2 goal lead at least partly due to his inadequacies as a coach means he needs to go now. It is hard to believe that the players still have faith in him and his ability to turn things around, and the fans certainly don’t.

I don’t think that Knapper has to rush into appointing the new permanent manager before Christmas as we need to get the right person. But at this stage I struggle to see how any caretaker (such as Neil Adam’s or….and I can’t believe I’m saying this Andy Hughes!) could do any worse than Wagner. Who knows we might even unveil a Gary Oneil caretaker who does enough to earn the job permanently.

we definitely need a n immediate change though.

Agreed until the Andy Hughes part, watched him a bit last night, fully focused on his iPad rather than the sh&@e show out on the pitch… I get he would be looking at data but really. My conclusion-he must be a whizz at candy crush.

[Olano 100]

Think it's beter to spend time to find a good new manager, then to your fire Wagner and then try to find a new manager.

 

I don't think there are many good hungry manager that wants to come to Norwich now. Our players are old, we don't have money, and we don't have a culture in building for the future. 

[Sooty57 403]

I must admit that when Ben Knapper was appointed I was one of those advocating keeping Wagner for a short while, thus giving the new boy time to get his feet under the table and seek a suitable replacement before the January transfer window, However, the past few games have shown just how utterly desperate the situation has become. Whether it is poor tactics, poor man management, or whatever, something has obviously gone very wrong in the squad. To surrender a two goal lead in two games in the space of a few weeks, and play so poorly even when scraping a win, is unforgivable.

The players seem to be totally bereft of self-belief and, while not the best squad in the division, should be doing a hell of a lot better than they are. I'm all for giving Neil Adams or another interim manager the reigns until a suitable replacement can be found. 

p.s. after Stoke lost to QPR last night I jokingly suggested to my friend that we swap managers. It wouldn't cost anything other than a couple of bus fares, and neither team could be any worse. He has forbidden me from going within 50 meters of any board members.

[jaberry2 556]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Too many different threads on here for any sensible discussion.

However - I've chosen this one.

I'm fed up with the usual suspects picking on one or other player for all our woes - Onel and Long seem to be the current scapegoats. Whereas neither had good matches at least Argos tried. The problem is not the individual players.

No - My concern is that there is something rotten at the heart of the club - the player moral has gone - they got themselves deservedly or not into a two goal lead (Hwang looks deadly), but add a  little pressure or a set back and it seemed the team imploded - supposedly professional footballers unable to pass, run, find space, mark or frankly be bothered.

I suspect many are actually in state of mind where they've lost belief and are simply treading water until something changes or better comes along. 

Maybe there are disruptive factions squabbling in the club. Maybe the recent board changes or the Manager has lost the dressing room. However, ultimately Wagner seems unable to sort the problem or find a cohesive team at least equal to the sum of it parts.

Something has to change - I'd say it is time for Wagner to go. We need a no nonsense old timer who knows how to get the best out of players - settle the ship. We don't need to gamble again this season on a manager with something to prove. We need a doctor manager and the surgical removal of diseased parts if necessary! Play for the team and club or get out.

I agree with you to a degree. The main point is our starting 11 when injuries come back is strong enough to compete, however with injuries we are too fragile and Wagner damages us further by making us more fragile in picking the wrong first team most weeks and/or making the wrong subs.

For me, we need to develop a backbone in more ways than one and start shipping out some players who dont possess the quality at this level despite and want of trying. The first one for me might be controversial but would Onel, PP amongst others. 

The manager is at fault for a number of things, but clearly is trying despite having a pretty turd squad. It remains to be seen whether Knapper is strong enough in his character to drive us forward.

[Robert N. LiM 4,487]

It makes a lot of sense for Knapper to take his time and assess the resources we have at the club before making a decision about the coach. In theory I'm happy for him to wait and I'd certainly rather he made the right decision than a quick one.

The problem is that Wagner isn't keeping his side of the bargain. If he keeps going on like this  - shipping two goals in most games, not being able to hang on to two-goal leads, seeming to have no response to the weakness of our midfield defensively - he's going to have to be sacked, that's just how it is.

[jaberry2 556]

Just now, Sooty57 said:

I must admit that when Ben Knapper was appointed I was one of those advocating keeping Wagner for a short while, thus giving the new boy time to get his feet under the table and seek a suitable replacement before the January transfer window, However, the past few games have shown just how utterly desperate the situation has become. Whether it is poor tactics, poor man management, or whatever, something has obviously gone very wrong in the squad. To surrender a two goal lead in two games in the space of a few weeks, and play so poorly even when scraping a win, is unforgivable.

The players seem to be totally bereft of self-belief and, while not the best squad in the division, should be doing a hell of a lot better than they are. I'm all for giving Neil Adams or another interim manager the reigns until a suitable replacement can be found. 

p.s. after Stoke lost to QPR last night I jokingly suggested to my friend that we swap managers. It wouldn't cost anything other than a couple of bus fares, and neither team could be any worse. He has forbidden me from going within 50 meters of any board members.

Im open to switching managers with the emphasis and getting a couple of quality additions and a push come January, with a renewed focus. Norwich are far too laboured in terms of change and need to be more ruthless. 

I am still awaiting some sensible managerial choices and by that I dont mean Lampard etc etc

[OnDaBall 137]

A big problem maybe that it's obvious sooner or later Wagner is getting the boot, we as fans know it, the media knows it, Wagner probably knows it and you can guarantee the players know it. This must have a destabilising effect on the squad,  lead to a massive feeling of lack of leadership, and ultimately when the going gets tough in a game nobody seems to want to take responsibility and get stuck in, they all just accept that they are going to lose and go missing.

If Knapper fails to act fast, the fans will soon turn on him, that's for sure.

[Indy 3,315]

50 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Too many different threads on here for any sensible discussion.

However - I've chosen this one.

I'm fed up with the usual suspects picking on one or other player for all our woes - Onel and Long seem to be the current scapegoats. Whereas neither had good matches at least Argos tried. The problem is not the individual players.

No - My concern is that there is something rotten at the heart of the club - the player moral has gone - they got themselves deservedly or not into a two goal lead (Hwang looks deadly), but add a  little pressure or a set back and it seemed the team imploded - supposedly professional footballers unable to pass, run, find space, mark or frankly be bothered.

I suspect many are actually in state of mind where they've lost belief and are simply treading water until something changes or better comes along. 

Maybe there are disruptive factions squabbling in the club. Maybe the recent board changes or the Manager has lost the dressing room. However, ultimately Wagner seems unable to sort the problem or find a cohesive team at least equal to the sum of it parts.

Something has to change - I'd say it is time for Wagner to go. We need a no nonsense old timer who knows how to get the best out of players - settle the ship. We don't need to gamble again this season on a manager with something to prove. We need a doctor manager and the surgical removal of diseased parts if necessary! Play for the team and club or get out.

This is a result of the club being in a state of very slow transition, no leadership at top level and as a result no demands set on the season goals by anyone!

Webber being allowed to oversee the summer when he’s already left in his mind, the slow transition of ownership, Christ we’re still waiting for the AGM to announce the changes to this point! Now we have a coach who is left out to dry with an aging core of a squad, most of whom were bought in on a free, most really don’t care about the club just here for the wages and most certainly not playing for the coach or club!

Webber should have been replaced in April so the new SD had time to **** and have the summer to make his mark.

MA should have had this deal tied up and an emergency AGM to force through the new board structure sorted pre June to set a new leader at the board room, one who has a clear vision and demands standards and accountability.

Injuries haven’t helped but reality is Duffy is a liability and yet gets a starting place, Onel has been ****e and both deserve to be benched, not scapegoats but reality of being out of form, I’ll add Stacey to that list along with Whang, yes he’s scored a couple goals at long last but why are we now playing a 32 year old loan from Forrest, surely we have to start looking at our future, blood the youngsters!

This entire club is in limbo and there’s a serious lack of leadership at every level, so little wonder we’re just drifting in apathy!

Edited November 29, 2023 by Indy

[sonyc 5,541]

24 minutes ago, OnDaBall said:

A big problem maybe that it's obvious sooner or later Wagner is getting the boot, we as fans know it, the media knows it, Wagner probably knows it and you can guarantee the players know it. This must have a destabilising effect on the squad,  lead to a massive feeling of lack of leadership, and ultimately when the going gets tough in a game nobody seems to want to take responsibility and get stuck in, they all just accept that they are going to lose and go missing.

If Knapper fails to act fast, the fans will soon turn on him, that's for sure.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The fans have turned and as we all know, the inevitable will happen. It does create an unstabilising feeling because there is that sense of impermanence about. That isn't conducive to optimal performance in any team. Transitions are taking place everywhere and progressive leadership and direction has to emerge. That can only begin now when the current manager leaves. It's too late to hope DW can turn it round. Players will know that his time is ending and their focus will not be as sharp. 

Time is now Ben K. I'm 100% sure that he will be looking at potential replacements and if DW is sacked soon I don't expect a long recruitment period. No idea why I think that 

It's not too late to change our season and disagree with those that think that.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

Wagner should go no question,

I have said on another thread I think knapper’s inexperience is looking at all options to make sure he gets it right as his first massive task , 

a experienced DOF would have maybe been in this position before and handle it differently,

no way is right way as Webber proved 1 good manager in 3 and he was more experienced than knapper ,

so on to next manager 

let’s get the very best we can in now so he can build a team and ship out deadwood,

it will be slow and maybe no instant success 

but as long as we can see his plan that’s acceptable,

he will have to build with little money and hopefully we can sell some of the deadwood and high earners 

I don’t really want a stop gap older manager he might improve results but not build for longer term 

this season is over does it matter really if we finish 10th or 14th ? As long as new manager is planning ahead and building a team with spirit playing the right way ,

We need a lambert / Farke type appointment with a clear plan and build with youth and players with a point to prove,

we will have to lose Sara and Rowe to rebuild but it is not who you lose it is who you replace them with that counts ,

recruitment is key in next manager and players get that wrong again and it might get a lot worse 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Attanasio is in the City, surely they will be having meetings about this right now? 

[Google Bot 3,304]

12 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

a experienced DOF would have maybe been in this position before and handle it differently,

Let's not forget that the original plan was for Knapper to work alongside Webber for a few months too, that was pulled and he was fast-tracked into position.

I cannot see how there's an allowance for him to come in and sack a coach with such little prep.  Club are screwed either way now, as he looks indecisive if nothing said, and if they come out and say he's learning on the job then fans will be up in arms.

People just need to chill and give the guy a bit of time, Wagner is not the worst coach to have in place for such a period - he's not going to get ****ty, he's going to remain positive, and does offer some consistency in the interim.   

Also, with the players fit he's shown he can deliver.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I agree entirely. I cannot believe Knapper did not already have someone lined up to come in on the day he arrived and did jot take swift, decisive action. It was such a huge opportunity for him to make his mark and open a new chapter/reset the club.

instead we had the coach coming out the day before he arrived telling us the owners were backing him and the club putting out comms letting it be known Knapper had been part of discussions over Wagner staying in place.

He’s in danger of blowing it with the fans already in my view. It not too late but he needs to act right now.

the only point I disagree on is that Andy Hughes should be nowhere near anything. 

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

9 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree entirely. I cannot believe Knapper did not already have someone lined up to come in on the day he arrived and did jot take swift, decisive action. It was such a huge opportunity for him to make his mark and open a new chapter/reset the club.

instead we had the coach coming out the day before he arrived telling us the owners were backing him and the club putting out comms letting it be known Knapper had been part of discussions over Wagner staying in place.

He’s in danger of blowing it with the fans already in my view. It not too late but he needs to act right now.

the only point I disagree on is that Andy Hughes should be nowhere near anything. 

Events. Events have overtaken these slower plans. The Wagner ship has well and truly now sailed.

Yesterday was such a no-show surrender after going two up - a reversion to the mean - the 'losing run' of a few weeks past - that we need to break the cycle of despair and lack of apparent believable leadership. He has to act.

 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Events. Events have overtaken these slower plans. The Wagner ship has well and truly now sailed.

Yesterday was such a no-show surrender after going two up - a reversion to the mean - the 'losing run' of a few weeks past - that we need to break the cycle of despair and lack of apparent believable leadership. He has to act.

 

I’m agreeing with you. There should never have been a slower plan in the first place. 

[Ulfotto 644]

Wagner days are numbered that much is obvious the reason he hasn’t been sacked is there is no obvious caretaker manager in the building. I’m actually surprised he stopped the rot with the two wind before yesterday result.

If we sack him and appoint a caretaker that caretaker could be in charge until the end of season and how long can you really have a caretaker manager for before they are the manager. It’s would be like when Neil Adam’s was appointed we were relegated and it’s like is he the full time manager how long can this go on and the new manager confirmed not be Neil Adams.

[Channon’s Windmill 334]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Attanasio is in the City, surely they will be having meetings about this right now? 

You really would hope so, I do hope it’s not just a load of back slapping going on whilst admiring the state of art academy and dining with the cook.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

14 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Wagner days are numbered that much is obvious the reason he hasn’t been sacked is there is no obvious caretaker manager in the building. I’m actually surprised he stopped the rot with the two wind before yesterday result.

If we sack him and appoint a caretaker that caretaker could be in charge until the end of season and how long can you really have a caretaker manager for before they are the manager. It’s would be like when Neil Adam’s was appointed we were relegated and it’s like is he the full time manager how long can this go on and the new manager confirmed not be Neil Adams.

i do not think Neil Adams would want it for Personal reasons after last time 

[Ray 111]

If the only option is to ask Neil Adams to step in for a period to allow Knapper sufficient time to appoint a full time manager, then I for one would be happy with that, assuming Neil would be happy to take the role on.  In all honesty what have we got to lose, OK we won against QPR  but let's be honest, it was dismal and in reality we could quite easily have lost.  

I cannot see any Plan A, let alone a Plan B, what exactly are our tactics, why do our players seem to lack any confidence, why oh why do we capitulate, something has to change, as mentioned elsewhere, to continue as we are is insanity.  

I suspect the season is done, insomuch we probably won't go down but probably will not trouble the top six as things stand, so we need a new broom and not Trigger's broom, that has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles!!

[essex canary 506]

They always need more time. It is just an excuse for showing no dynamism.