You're Getting Sacked In The Morning.

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

1 minute ago, Mason 47 said:

I think I can see the risks as alluded to by LYB. Namely that the next appointment needs to be a meaningful one. 

I'd be totally against a Championship shock-jock like Warnock as it would only ever be a short-term jerry rig. Promotion ceased to be a viable aim for me weeks ago, as I realised we are in the midst of a total rebuild and kicking the can down the road fitfully chasing the top 6 at all costs doesn't benefit us. And LYB is quite right, meaningful candidates probably aren't plentiful at this exact moment.

However, I think the damaging effect to the intangibles by persisting with Wagner at this point is something that needs to be stemmed and fast. Things like reputation are vital for a club like ours.

The next move needs to be an admission by the club that mistakes have been made, we're way off where we should be, and a younger + motivated head coach appointed for the rebuild. If that isn't available now, then pay a steady hand what it takes for the rest of the season to at least stop the bleed. But the communication from the club needs to be crystal clear.

Knapper wanted the big job. I look forward to seeing if he has what it takes 👍

 

Is the correct answer. Especially the bit I've put in bold.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[sonyc 5,541]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We've won two in the last three. 

Our form in the last 10 and even 15 games is 18th!

 

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

Rather like - albeit at a far higher level - we're a bit of a poisoned chalice after a very popular manager left. Could argue the funks that descended on Manchester United post-Ferguson, on Liverpool post-Dalglish, on Bolton post-Allardyce and on Arsenal post-Wenger are replicating themselves with us after Farke.

I'm never keen on sacking managers unless they've had a couple of windows. And we were basically two substitute goalie errors away from a win against Watford. But what bothers me a bit with Wagner is this: we'll have a spell where we press and look really tidy, but then can't maintain the pace. Pressing means a high level of athleticism and fitness is required, and granted we have that in spades with Sargent up top, but I'm not sure we've got the balance right. But we can't keep it up for more than 25 minutes, or we haven't got the craft to slow it down for a bit in possession to allow the lads to recover a bit before changing the pace again.

I'd argue a possession game is paramount for hard-pressing teams when they actually get the ball, as keeping hold of it is the recovery period.

Farke had a terrible injury crisis in one of his Championship-winning seasons but still had enough to keep the team ticking over, then unleashed it when much closer to full fitness. I accept Barnes and Sargent out for a fair time hurts a pressing team badly, then losing the upstart in Rowe wasn't great (then Placheta dropped something on his trampoline), but neither Smith nor Wagner have really demonstrated the same adroit streak.

 

[CDMullins 443]

Knapper has a big decision to make now,

Get it wrong and wait until the Summer and lose Wagner then his credibility and the support for him is instantly broken.

Likewise should he relieve Wagner and bring in the wrong man.

Edited November 29, 2023 by CDMullins

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

We've had two wins in the last three with negativity and criticism of the way the players played regardless of the result. This has been the hallmark of everything we've had since we were relegated from the Premier League.

The negativity around the performances in those 2 games has not been about entertainment. It's been about a lack of control and the fact that they've very much been lucky wins. Bar that 2 minutes in Cardiff Wagner's probably gone. Bar the 1 shot on target going in we draw against one of the worst teams in the league. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Our form in the last 10 and even 15 games is 18th!

 

Missing the point. Whatever our form has been, the 'lack of entertainment' has meant many have refused to give credit regardless of results. A new manager now is not going to fix this.

Neil Adams or someone else in the club as a caretaker to see us through the season, but that's the most we should do.

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Big Vince 319]

35 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I forgot to mention the chant of you're just a poor Daniel Farke.

All this nostalgia for Farke is well wide of the mark. In the pantheon of Canary managers he would be well down the pecking order behind Ron Saunders, Dave Stringer, Ken Brown, John Bond, Mike Walker 1.

[Crafty Canary 497]

7 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I agree, he needs to go. Time is up. But do you honestly think that things would improve under a new head coach? This squad is dire and even our best players are no better than average. 
 

I honestly believe this club is stuck in this position until there is real change at the top. I.e. Delia and Michael have stood down completely. Until then we’re just going to be stuck on this same path I fear.

Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately it won’t happen.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

2 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

The negativity around the performances in those 2 games has not been about entertainment. It's been about a lack of control and the fact that they've very much been lucky wins. Bar that 2 minutes in Cardiff Wagner's probably gone. Bar the 1 shot on target going in we draw against one of the worst teams in the league. 

'Entertainment', 'the eye test', 'control'. Call it what you will, abstract negative sentiments not connected to the outcome of the game.

[Big Vince 319]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Missing the point. Whatever our form has been, the 'lack of entertainment' has meant many have refused to give credit regardless of results. A new manager now is not going to fix this.

Neil Adams or someone else in the club as a caretaker to see us through the season, but that's the most we should do.

 

This is where fans are supreme numpties. It is ALL about results not entertainment. Norwich fans idea of entertainment is losing every game 4-5 which is entertaining but will see you relegated on nil points at the end of the season.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Big Vince

[sonyc 5,541]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Missing the point. Whatever our form has been, the 'lack of entertainment' has meant many have refused to give credit regardless of results. A new manager now is not going to fix this.

Neil Adams or someone else in the club as a caretaker to see us through the season, but that's the most we should do.

 

I'm not a 'fire the manager' type really. Tend to hold back (Worthington, Neil, Farke, Smith, certainly Adams ...others) longer before I 'turn'. Not that those managers didn't frustrate me at the end of their tenure. And I'm probably someone who tends to feel thankful that we have had ownership that has tended not to be in a round of constant sackings over the decades. Agree with you too that not all problems are solved by sacking DW. I tend to look at the stats, the numbers. At the numbers in game as well as overall. I look at Xg and many other metrics. Even Sky showed the damning statistics last night. 

My point is about damage limitation. There are times in a business when you have to take tough decisions. We need at act. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by sonyc

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

'Entertainment', 'the eye test', 'control'. Call it what you will, abstract negative sentiments not connected to the outcome of the game.

I don't agree in the slightest. A rough game like either of those is looked at significantly differently if it's amongst a run of games won whilst won whilst in control. It's never just about results.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

1 minute ago, KeiranShikari said:

I don't agree in the slightest. A rough game like either of those is looked at significantly differently if it's amongst a run of games won whilst won whilst in control. It's never just about results.

It wasn't looked at differently when we got off to a great start last season.

[NFN FC 1,123]

I tend to find myself in a minority when it comes to wanting entertaining football. Most just want results and that's fine. 

At the moment we are getting neither results nor entertainment.

I don't get why Knapper doesn't execute a very easy win in terms of winning over fans and sack Wagner. It would show that he's in charge and ready to move the club forwards.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

2 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

This is where fans are supreme numpties. It is ALL about results not entertainment. Norwich fans idea of entertainment is losing every game 4-5 which is entertaining but will see you relegated on nil points at the end of the season.

In agreement with you here BV. Also the love in by some for Farke - reminds me of similar for Lambert. Both I suspect happened upon or inherited by chance the right set of players for their particular modus operandi. I always thought Farke was in trouble in his first season or two until was forced to all but swap the B team for the A team and discovered Vrancic, Lewis etc and later Emi etc. Fell lucky with Skip too!

 

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't looked at differently when we got off to a great start last season.

I think a majority were pretty happy for a long while during the run at the start of last season.

My own gut feeling was that it didn't feel sustainable and that it was either going to go 1 of two ways. Collapse or the wins would breed confidence and we'd go on from there. There were others like me but we were massively outnumbered.

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

1 minute ago, NFN FC said:

 

I don't get why Knapper doesn't execute a very easy win in terms of winning over fans and sack Wagner. It would show that he's in charge and ready to move the club forwards

The sacking is an easy win, sure. But it's the choice of replacement that will show he's 'ready to move the club forwards.' Can only assume he hasn't done the former because he's uncertain who the new guy will be (or, as others have said, he knows but the new guy is not yet available)

[NFN FC 1,123]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

The sacking is an easy win, sure. But it's the choice of replacement that will show he's 'ready to move the club forwards.' Can only assume he hasn't done the former because he's uncertain who the new guy will be (or, as others have said, he knows but the new guy is not yet available)

Sack him and let the lads play the football they want. Stick anyone in charge, even Barnes!

[Justin time 182]

18 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

In agreement with you here BV. Also the love in by some for Farke - reminds me of similar for Lambert. Both I suspect happened upon or inherited by chance the right set of players for their particular modus operandi. I always thought Farke was in trouble in his first season or two until was forced to all but swap the B team for the A team and discovered Vrancic, Lewis etc and later Emi etc. Fell lucky with Skip too!

 

That’s an awful amount of luck.

[Mike w 46]

Sorry Wagner's got to go now. Players lack belief even if they have the ability which in some I doubt. Lack of players effort is so important most are just rubbish at this level. Get them playig to their ability and then see how to move forward under a NEW leader.

[kenfoggo 247]

Knapper’s conundrum is that if he allows Wagner to stay as coach he will be accused of inaction in the face of dire football on the pitch. And, if he sacks Wagner, he could be accused of a knee jerk reaction with a panicky recruitment of another non-suitable Head Coach. But even Knapper with his short term in the job can see the worrying lack of effort on the pitch. It is not just the results it is the manner of their achievement. We gave up last night against Watford and just capitulated and against QPR only the most biased of City Supporters would claim we deserved that win. Dire football.

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

25 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Sack him and let the lads play the football they want. Stick anyone in charge, even Barnes!

A Barnes and Hanley combo might be a short term solution.

Seriously though Hughes and Weaver should know enough between them to set a team up better than what Wagner does.

I will lose faith in Knapper pretty quickly unless he acts swiftly on this. It’s a clear and obvious first step and without that we even think about moving forward.

[Mike w 46]

Just now, kenfoggo said:

Knapper’s conundrum is that if he allows Wagner to stay as coach he will be accused of inaction in the face of dire football on the pitch. And, if he sacks Wagner, he could be accused of a knee jerk reaction with a panicky recruitment of another non-suitable Head Coach. But even Knapper with his short term in the job can see the worrying lack of effort on the pitch. It is not just the results it is the manner of their achievement. We gave up last night against Watford and just capitulated and against QPR only the most biased of City Supporters would claim we deserved that win. Dire football.

100 % agree

[Jim Smith 2,339]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

However it plays out, it will play out with the same squad with the same limitations. I'll put the same question to you: Do you think a change in manager now is likely to result in promotion?

It could do. The playoffs are still very much in reach and we should not be writing off the season now. Indeed we can’t really afford to. 

[sgncfc 1,253]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He's not going to be sacked because it's very unlikely that changing the manager in isolation is going to improve our fortunes for this season and Knapper's tenure will be poisoned before he has had a chance to get his feet under the desk. In all seriousness, if people can't just get behind the team to get results and simply try to appreciate them getting results when they do then they need to stop going for the rest of the season for the squad's benefit and for their own benefit.

That's good advice, which I will be taking because I'm not going to watch these incompetent morons any more.

[Mike w 46]

The basic and first rule of playing football is if the other team has the ball THEN go and get it !!! Without the ball YOU ARE NOT PLAYING.

[Big Vince 319]

1 minute ago, Mike w said:

The basic and first rule of playing football is if the other team has the ball THEN go and get it !!! Without the ball YOU ARE NOT PLAYING.

In all seriousness can you remember the last time a Norwich player made a tackle?

[Mike w 46]

Just now, Big Vince said:

In all seriousness can you remember the last time a Norwich player made a tackle?

NO

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

18 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It could do. The playoffs are still very much in reach and we should not be writing off the season now. Indeed we can’t really afford to. 

I'd agree with that. It's unlikely but we still have players played in the right way could win a lot of matches. 

More importantly the club has to show the season ticket holders that the club is looking to progress. Building a strategy solely to avoid relegation based on dire football just isn't the way ahead.

[duke63 545]

12 minutes ago, Mike w said:

NO

Sainz got his foot in towards the end last night. He seemed to feel he had a point to prove and rightly so.

Why he has not started a game is beyond me.