No one is talking about Long

[Helsinki canary 242]

Give Long some slack, he made some good stops and always challenging to come in cold like that in a high tempo game - judge him after 3-4 more games

[jaberry2 554]

The thing is after such a collapse people always talk about whole sale changes which is rarely the answer. Change is needed but sensible change in my opinion. For me its time to hope that with a series of games Hwang can step up and drop Idah. Quite frankly he isnt good enough and would prefer he is sold. Gibbs played in an advanced position doesnt work. Despite Onel having a good game, I dont want to see him in the starting position and would prefer another option to him. Im hoping Sainz can fill that void and the sooner he is ready the better this team will be. I think we need to establish a solid CM pairing, as that seems to be putting pressure on us more defensively and offensively.

[Thumbbass 319]

It's such a shame Daniel Barden had his progress delayed by that serious illness. On very limited viewing in the first team a couple of years ago he looked incredibly assured and good with his feet for a big lad. 

Too early to condemn Long though, especially coming into a game as a substitute - not a situation any keeper wants.

[Branston Pickle 3,680]

54 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

Not a scapegoat, I posted on another thread that a keeper should not be beaten on his near post. He got beat on his near post leading to the Duffy og, unacceptable

It’s not that simple - in general terms keepers aren’t meant to be beaten at the near post, but it happens and there were several in the PL this weekend. I didn’t think he did a lot wrong on Saturday.

[Captain Holt 522]

He's a short man.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

We didn't lose because of Long....there were 10 others in front of him that were just as culpable for our prolapse and collapse that gifted them 3 goals....

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

No keeper is going to keep a clean sheet when you're giving away 20+ shots a game. Gunn's come in for criticism recently and it sounds as though Long is being targeted now but the problem is higher up the pitch. The keeper is supposed to be the last line of defence, what on Earth are the midfield and defence contributing?

[NewNestCarrow 202]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s not that simple - in general terms keepers aren’t meant to be beaten at the near post, but it happens and there were several in the PL this weekend. I didn’t think he did a lot wrong on Saturday.

Sara' s goal on Saturday was beating Meslier at his near post!

[NewNestCarrow 202]

5 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Millwall fans didn’t rate him and he was dropped last season after a string of errors. 

I don’t rate Gunn massively either, tbh. GK is an area that needed proper investment. Maybe the Reyes is the plan from next season. 

Being not good enough for one team is absolutely no barrier to being a success elsewhere (Krul? Trybull?).

As for taking the opinion of other fans as an objective indicator of talent and/or ability....

[norfolkngood 1,087]

20 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

No keeper is going to keep a clean sheet when you're giving away 20+ shots a game. Gunn's come in for criticism recently and it sounds as though Long is being targeted now but the problem is higher up the pitch. The keeper is supposed to be the last line of defence, what on Earth are the midfield and defence contributing?

20 plus shots at goal and people are blaming the Keeper ! 

how about stopping the shots ! or crosses ! 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

16 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Ooh look, a new scapegoat….nothing like giving a guy a chance, is there.

Millwall gave him a chance and got rid. If he wasn't good enough for Millwall why do you think he'll be good enough here?

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Up there with Hwang being seen as an adequate replacement whilst Barnes and Sargeant are out... 

[NewNestCarrow 202]

55 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Millwall gave him a chance and got rid. If he wasn't good enough for Millwall why do you think he'll be good enough here?

Here's a short list of NCFC players. See if you can spot the theme:

Krul, Leitner, Trybull, Ruddy, McVeigh, Polston, Bowen, Crook, Culverhouse, Gunn (Sr), Hartford, Channon, Van Wijk, Deehan, Watson, Peters*, MacDougall, Keelan* and KEN FOGGO!

Edited October 23, 2023 by NewNestCarrow

[ged in the onion bag 856]

Club have been stubborn about a CDM, unlikely they won't be stubborn about the keeper.    For me, its a youngster every time.    

Long had no chance with the other two but the first one is the crucial one and he should have stopped that.

[nutty nigel 7,598]

I think the Chilean guy Reyes is on loan at Braintree.

Idah wasn't anonymous on Saturday. Hwang was. 

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

Only just seen the goals. I don't blame Long for any of them. He certainly wasn't beaten at the near post. The ball didn't go to his left and straight into the goal, or was deflected by him leftwards into the goal, which is what beaten at the near post means. If either goalie was that it was the Leeds keeper for Sara's goal.

Here the ball was cut back to Long's right and he got something on it, which deflected it on to Duffy's chest and in. You might argue he should have got a stronger hand to the ball, to push it further out, but that wouldn't necessarily have prevented a goal. And he was not at fault for either of the others.

[hogesar 9,724]

1 hour ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Here's a short list of NCFC players. See if you can spot the theme:

Krul, Leitner, Trybull, Ruddy, McVeigh, Polston, Bowen, Crook, Culverhouse, Gunn (Sr), Hartford, Channon, Van Wijk, Deehan, Watson, Peters*, MacDougall, Keelan* and KEN FOGGO!

Excellent response!

[hogesar 9,724]

52 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I think the Chilean guy Reyes is on loan at Braintree.

Idah wasn't anonymous on Saturday. Hwang was. 

Idah put in a much better performance than Hwang did. Idah actually helped us get up the pitch. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,472]

18 hours ago, repman said:

I think it started before then. We know that for a long time he intended to leave in 2021 when his contract was meant to be up. I've no doubt he wanted to leave the club on a high and that's why in the summer of 20/21 we started to focus on the short term, instead of the sort of infinite game thinking we had demonstrated by doing very little business after our first promotion. The signings of Hugill and Gibson were examples of players who were more to safeguard promotion chances than give us a better shot of PL survival, similarly with Sorensen and Placheta, they were championship depth pieces who were never going to get the shot to be PL ready. Then you have the summer of 20/21 where we spend a lot of money to overhaul the squad, the early performances showed we were going down under Farke so he panicked and replaced him. Even last summer, a more long-term oriented person would probably have let Pukki go to give Sargent and Idah their chance, instead we kept him for another year, sold next to no one and spent against our parachute payments to bring Sara in.

Fair - and damning - summary. I'm interested in the bit I've put in bold - while I'm sure there's truth in this, how far do you think fan pressure and external criticism also played a part in the abandonment of the infinite game strategy, especially in the summer after the second Farke promotion?

TalkSport and others were relentless in accusing us of not trying to compete in the PL, and surely our fans would not have tolerated a second post-promotion transfer window where we didn't spend any money. He basically stopped ignoring the noise at that point, didn't he? I can't imagine continuing to ignore the noise would have made him very popular either with NCFC supporters or the pundit class.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[pete 320]

Thought Long wasn't the worst or even in the 6th worst.  Didn't find him at fault for any of the goals, and made excellent stop from James.  Looked capable and played well against Fulham in Lge Cup.  Looked we signed the new Theoklitis reading Millwall comments.  He will play next game if Gunn out we don't have young talent in Academy to replace him.  Boro will give him a workout and remember how bad the defence is in front of him. 

[repman 635]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Fair - and damning - summary. I'm interested in the bit I've put in bold - while I'm sure there's truth in this, how far do you think fan pressure and external criticism also played a part in the abandonment of the infinite game strategy, especially in the summer after the second Farke promotion?

TalkSport and others were relentless in accusing us of not trying to compete in the PL, and surely our fans would not have tolerated a second post-promotion transfer window where we didn't spend any money. He basically stopped ignoring the noise at that point, didn't he? I can't imagine continuing to ignore the noise would have made him very popular either with NCFC supporters or the pundit class.

I'm sure that played a part, I think his attitude was probably that he had absorbed pretty much all of the criticism for the first PL season and that he wasn't going to let that happen again. I've said many times that I don't think sacking Farke was particularly egregious based off what we'd seen to start that season. It's also been said that Webber felt like there was an air of acceptance around the fact we would be going down again, this is presumably tied to Farke getting a 4 year deal while Webber's was up soon. Webber's big mistake was appointing Smith, which was perhaps more a sign that he was abandoning an infinite game strategy than sacking Farke was. Getting rid of Farke could have led to us upgrading on him but Dean Smith was very much not that. 

 

 

 

[sgncfc 1,253]

5 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Here's a short list of NCFC players. See if you can spot the theme:

Krul, Leitner, Trybull, Ruddy, McVeigh, Polston, Bowen, Crook, Culverhouse, Gunn (Sr), Hartford, Channon, Van Wijk, Deehan, Watson, Peters*, MacDougall, Keelan* and KEN FOGGO!

Did they all come from Millwall then?

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

5 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Did they all come from Millwall then?

LOL .. comparing Channon, Peters and Co with a keeper let go by Millwall AND Hull is a new low by those desperate to deny we are in decline due to successive poor transfer windows. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

I'd love Long to find some form here but I really doubt he will... another Webber masterclass.

[Indy 3,314]

On 22/10/2023 at 21:26, Ulfotto said:

Hang on I thought it was Tony Springett was the knew scapegoat.

Never, Idah for most & McLean for me! I love a good scapegoat! If a player has shortcomings in his game and is constantly being played when others can see results aren’t changing and players getting worse than what are we supposed to do? Just all agree that they gave it their best and the manager is correct to keep playing each player? Scapegoat is everyone, in reality over the past three seasons the managers have been crap, recruitment abysmal, the replacement managers questionable and players left in the squad pretty damn ordinary! Rowe looks a prospect but has fitness issues, never seen anyone that young get to 60 minutes and look so tired! Sara is our strongest player and the rest are at Rotherham’s level given the form we are showing!

The only real scapegoats who should be pointed to, is our current joint majority shareholders who are still in around and Webber! The summer should have seen a full change and new direction, instead we still have a SD who’s utterly clueless and unmotivated hanging around, his wife who is running the club on behalf of our aging owners and an American owner who’s shored up the finances by 66million to keep us going! No leadership and absolutely no accountability from top to bottom!

Edited October 24, 2023 by Indy