David Wagner

[daly 507]

Remember Webber at the AGM stating how his predecessor had pissed  the money up the wall

[S_81 840]

40 minutes ago, daly said:

Remember Webber at the AGM stating how his predecessor had pissed  the money up the wall

The irony hey 

[canarybubbles 1,938]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

We're 29 league games into Wagner's time here so a fairly good amount of time to judge.

40 points from those games from what I can see- so 1.4ppg if you round up.

64 points if extrolpalated across an entire season.

Last season that would have been good for 11th. 12th the season before. 10th the season before that.

So based on the form shown under Wagner we're unlikely to trouble the top 6.

More concerningly though, I don't see what we're building towards? The Wagner brand of football was known for intense, high pressing. I don't personally see that. We're not a full throtal attacking team but we're also not a solid defensive team. We're not long ball, we're not short passing. We don't seem to play on the front foot, we're not exceptional on the counter. We're just a bit...meh. I don't understand what a Wagner team is supposed to look like.

The biggest worry though, is that we went out of our way to invest in experience and leadership in the offseason, yet the individual errors and mistakes persist. It is as if something happens when anyone drives into Colney that the mindset of 'oh well, it's only a game' seems to kick in. Nobody seems that bothered when we drop yet another ****. Everything is too laid back, too casual, too tolerant of errors and failure. 

 

You're right - the 'experienced heads' we brought in to make us more tough-minded don't seem to have made any difference. And the comments people are starting to make that we lack any specific style or identity are very similar to the comments they made during Dean Smith's period.

Could one reason be that since the second promotion Webber seems to have lurched from magic solution to magic solution and therefore each transfer window he has bought players who are suited to lots of different styles and what we are left with is a blancmange? We gave up Farkeball but tried to replace it with something different each time and we've ended up replacing it with nothing.

[......and Smith must score. 1,359]

Wagner’s tenancy is all looking so depressingly like last season.

Starts with a bang then peters out. Assuming we get no injuries to other key players things might improve when the injured players return but I think the head coach is rapidly running out of road.

He’ll do well to turn it around.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

Happy to be corrected, but I understand that Knapper doesn't start till 27 November. There doesn't seem to be any point in Webber making a coaching change when he is leaving so soon: surely it makes more sense for the new SD to make that decision.

This is going to be frustrating for fans, but I suspect this is going to be a nothing season while Knapper (and the Attanasios) get their feet under the table. If I were a betting person, I'd have my money on a coaching change in the summer, but no sooner.

[Midlands Yellow 4,063]

10 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Happy to be corrected, but I understand that Knapper doesn't start till 27 November. There doesn't seem to be any point in Webber making a coaching change when he is leaving so soon: surely it makes more sense for the new SD to make that decision.

This is going to be frustrating for fans, but I suspect this is going to be a nothing season while Knapper (and the Attanasios) get their feet under the table. If I were a betting person, I'd have my money on a coaching change in the summer, but no sooner.

Compared to the longest full takeover in world football being completed what’s a few more weeks with ‘Super Stu’ at the helm. 

[hogesar 9,732]

9 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Even you don't believe that.

I do, and he was also one of the best midfielders on the pitch yesterday. Only Eccles offered more.

 

[DraytonBoy 160]

What will change if Wagner is sacked right now, who is out there fans would feel confident enough about to get more out of the current squad? Say someone new comes in with their own style and wanting new players in January, are we sure the purse strings will be loosened enough to significantly improve the squad?

Way to early to get rid of Wagner with City sitting just outside the play-off positions.

[BroadstairsR 2,201]

42 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Happy to be corrected, but I understand that Knapper doesn't start till 27 November. There doesn't seem to be any point in Webber making a coaching change when he is leaving so soon: surely it makes more sense for the new SD to make that decision.

This is going to be frustrating for fans, but I suspect this is going to be a nothing season while Knapper (and the Attanasios) get their feet under the table. If I were a betting person, I'd have my money on a coaching change in the summer, but no sooner.

This point was raised by a few of us yesterday evening.

Knapper's first big job should be to appoint rather than to sack.

It is clear that Wagner's days are numbered and that we are going nowhere with him at the helm.

Webber should take the task of wielding the axe upon his own shoulders. Neil Adams would be the ideal caretaker (performances might actually improve) giving the new man ample time to appoint his own man.

You never know we might actually follow ITFC for once and get a young, ambitious replacement who is actually more clued-up about tactics in the modern game and is therefore more able to identify and then get the very best from new recruits and academy hopefuls.

A touch of the Arsenals would go down well with me, although I have always favoured Spurs.

Edited October 8, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

17 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Compared to the longest full takeover in world football being completed what’s a few more weeks with ‘Super Stu’ at the helm. 

I know you're being sarcastic, but I actually sort of agree with this.

The trouble is, we're working on two (or even three) time frames. On one, I think it does make sense to get the takeover right - to let these Americans take some time to understand how English football works (and doesn't work) - and for D&M to get a sense that they are the right people to take over. Regardless of what people want to criticise them for, they take their role of 'custodians' of the club very seriously and given what a big deal this is - the club owned by non-local people,  by non-fans for the first time in its history - I think they're right to have taken their time to judge the cut of the Attanasios' jibs. This is a decision for the next 20 years of the club, maybe more. Better a slow decision than the wrong one

Similarly, the appointment of a new SD is a big one, looking on a kind of more medium-term time frame - what's the footballing direction of the club in the next five years. Again, getting this decision right (and having a handover period) makes a lot of sense - but in this case that process should have started a long time ago, and Webber hanging on after our last promotion clearly hasn't helped the club.

But none of this helps us beat Leeds in our next home game. Understandably fans want results next week, hence the call for a change of coach. It's the easiest change to make, much easier than changing owner, sporting director or players. But given everything else that's going on, it isn't going to happen, so I'm afraid fans are just going to have to get used to it.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

This point was raised by a few of us yesterday evening.

Knapper's first big job should be to appoint rather than sack.

It is clear that Wagner's days are numbered and that we are going nowhere withy him at the helm.

Webber should take the task of wielding the axe upon his own shoulders. Heil Adams would be the ideal caretaker (performances might actually improve) giving the new man ample time to appoint his own man.

You never know we might actually follow ITFC for once and get a young, ambitious replacement who is actually more clued-up about tactics in the modern game and is therefore more able to identify and then get the very best from new recruits and academy hopefuls.

A touch of the Arsenals would go down well with me, although I have always favoured Spurs.

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. Not sure whether I agree or not. Will think about it. What I will say at this stage is that 'Heil Adams' should certainly run an unforgiving training regime. And at least he'll have his version of the Farke wave sorted from the outset.

[BroadstairsR 2,201]

Currected.

[Midlands Yellow 4,063]

5 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I know you're being sarcastic, but I actually sort of agree with this.

The trouble is, we're working on two (or even three) time frames. On one, I think it does make sense to get the takeover right - to let these Americans take some time to understand how English football works (and doesn't work) - and for D&M to get a sense that they are the right people to take over. Regardless of what people want to criticise them for, they take their role of 'custodians' of the club very seriously and given what a big deal this is - the club owned by non-local people,  by non-fans for the first time in its history - I think they're right to have taken their time to judge the cut of the Attanasios' jibs. This is a decision for the next 20 years of the club, maybe more. Better a slow decision than the wrong one

Similarly, the appointment of a new SD is a big one, looking on a kind of more medium-term time frame - what's the footballing direction of the club in the next five years. Again, getting this decision right (and having a handover period) makes a lot of sense - but in this case that process should have started a long time ago, and Webber hanging on after our last promotion clearly hasn't helped the club.

But none of this helps us beat Leeds in our next home game. Understandably fans want results next week, hence the call for a change of coach. It's the easiest change to make, much easier than changing owner, sporting director or players. But given everything else that's going on, it isn't going to happen, so I'm afraid fans are just going to have to get used to it.

I’d have thought their induction process on all things Norwich City would have been at an advanced stage by now. There’s no going back, the Americans are in and it’s time for the custodians to leave. Why anyone would want them hanging around for another 3 years is pure madness. 

 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Awful football manager. Surely there was better than this guy available when we were searching

[Peregrine Shorts 331]

Wayne Rooney is available

[Midlands Yellow 4,063]

3 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Awful football manager. Surely there was better than this guy available when we were searching

Kenny Jackett and Ian Holloway turned us down after Deano left. 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

Kenny Jackett and Ian Holloway turned us down after Deano left. 

Probably did, we love a cheap option

[Wibble 109]

8 hours ago, S_81 said:

The irony hey 

Been a bit quiet on that subject since hasnt he.....

[BroadstairsR 2,201]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Kenny Jackett and Ian Holloway turned us down after Deano left. 

Ugh.

We had broken the mould of appointing managers from the merry-go-round when we appointed Daniel Farke so much so that we were convinced that we had an innovative Director of Football in place with forward-thinking ideas. How wrong we were.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

28 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’d have thought their induction process on all things Norwich City would have been at an advanced stage by now. There’s no going back, the Americans are in and it’s time for the custodians to leave. Why anyone would want them hanging around for another 3 years is pure madness. 

 

Personally I like the idea of a handover period, but three years does seem a long time, I agree with you on that. I suspect that arrangement will be ended by mutual consent well before that, but that's just speculation on my part.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

35 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’d have thought their induction process on all things Norwich City would have been at an advanced stage by now. There’s no going back, the Americans are in and it’s time for the custodians to leave. Why anyone would want them hanging around for another 3 years is pure madness. 

 

You’re on wrong forum if you think there aren’t people on here that are delighted they are staying for another three years

[Midlands Yellow 4,063]

6 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

You’re on wrong forum if you think there aren’t people on here that are delighted they are staying for another three years

I’ve no idea who you might be thinking of. 

[BroadstairsR 2,201]

49 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

You’re on wrong forum if you think there aren’t people on here that are delighted they are staying for another three years

The groupies who are infatuated by the fact that Delia always calls them by their Christian names.

"The first grooming tactic in the idiot's guide to being an adored celebrity and employed by politicians and category B celebs alike."

My uncle who wasn't particularly impressed as she confused him with his business partner. It was early days though.

[yellowrider120 782]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Awful football manager. Surely there was better than this guy available when we were searching

Problem is Webber did very little (if any) 'searching'. He found out his old mate was keen on the job and that was it. I pocketed a nice 18/1 from Sky Bet directly I saw his name. Only regret is I didn't shovel in a load more cash!!

[NeymarSmith 132]

17 hours ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Colin is still available... could do so much worse, (we already are) 

I think mr Warnock, sure he hates the colin nickname godlyO! - and rightfully so- btw! So let's give him respect.

I think he would make a good fist of this group and id fancy him to get us playoffs.what a way for him to sign off and end leave it there. Wagner only has to jan on paper so either a minimal pay off or just sit it out. Warncok in by xmas, time to assess and get his own people in seems like he would be great at then getting us prompted to me. His style okay, not to everyone's taste BUT he gets them drilled, hard to beat and focused and motivated, and with the quality (supposedly) we have on paper that would all be too much for this league to handle and promotion would have to be odds on. A good go. He would do likely a end of year deal, it assesses the players, the new man coming in can swing himself about and start a fresh as such, sw doesnt care as it it fails it wasnt him and he goes and if it works he is on a ray of light. 

The new man can lay claim to it being him and then summer comes, hopefully prompted, confidence High, warnock has done his bit, retires properly on another high and is let go -possibly upstairs, and the new man upstairs knows the lay of the land has full grip, prem money and can get his own new man with how he wants it to go.

Even if that plan was to be delayed a year, if - but i dont think it would- then i think its hard to see winners.

 

Thoughts?

@GodlyOtsemobor

[norfolkngood 1,087]

Wagner said yesterday he had met Knapper a few weeks ago and they had some of the same views etc 

he said he was a nice bloke or something like that 

i Hope Ben is one of those a bit more Ruthless than that he will need to be his first job should be getting new manager in 

Webber should do the sacking that should be his job with Bens say so ,

Ben needs his own man at the helm just like webber needed Farke 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

2 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

I think mr Warnock, sure he hates the colin nickname godlyO! - and rightfully so- btw! So let's give him respect.

I think he would make a good fist of this group and id fancy him to get us playoffs.what a way for him to sign off and end leave it there. Wagner only has to jan on paper so either a minimal pay off or just sit it out. Warncok in by xmas, time to assess and get his own people in seems like he would be great at then getting us prompted to me. His style okay, not to everyone's taste BUT he gets them drilled, hard to beat and focused and motivated, and with the quality (supposedly) we have on paper that would all be too much for this league to handle and promotion would have to be odds on. A good go. He would do likely a end of year deal, it assesses the players, the new man coming in can swing himself about and start a fresh as such, sw doesnt care as it it fails it wasnt him and he goes and if it works he is on a ray of light. 

The new man can lay claim to it being him and then summer comes, hopefully prompted, confidence High, warnock has done his bit, retires properly on another high and is let go -possibly upstairs, and the new man upstairs knows the lay of the land has full grip, prem money and can get his own new man with how he wants it to go.

Even if that plan was to be delayed a year, if - but i dont think it would- then i think its hard to see winners.

 

Thoughts?

@GodlyOtsemobor

quite like that idea Warnock would sort out the wheat from the chaff that's for sure ,

he would soon tell Ben who has the right character and skill needed to play here ,

 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,376]

8 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

I think mr Warnock, sure he hates the colin nickname godlyO! - and rightfully so- btw! So let's give him respect.

I think he would make a good fist of this group and id fancy him to get us playoffs.what a way for him to sign off and end leave it there. Wagner only has to jan on paper so either a minimal pay off or just sit it out. Warncok in by xmas, time to assess and get his own people in seems like he would be great at then getting us prompted to me. His style okay, not to everyone's taste BUT he gets them drilled, hard to beat and focused and motivated, and with the quality (supposedly) we have on paper that would all be too much for this league to handle and promotion would have to be odds on. A good go. He would do likely a end of year deal, it assesses the players, the new man coming in can swing himself about and start a fresh as such, sw doesnt care as it it fails it wasnt him and he goes and if it works he is on a ray of light. 

The new man can lay claim to it being him and then summer comes, hopefully prompted, confidence High, warnock has done his bit, retires properly on another high and is let go -possibly upstairs, and the new man upstairs knows the lay of the land has full grip, prem money and can get his own new man with how he wants it to go.

Even if that plan was to be delayed a year, if - but i dont think it would- then i think its hard to see winners.

 

Thoughts?

@GodlyOtsemobor

First off, calling him Colin is a term of endearment from my end, much like in my friendship circle call each other every name under the sun, so no disrespect coming from here. 

Anywho, yes this is my thought, he would certainly sort our leaky defense out and make them return to the basics of defending and I truly believe he would grab our midfield by the scruff of the neck and get them battling for every ball. 

He's a superb manager for this level and clearly still has the desire to keep going and I too think getting us into the play offs would be a huge achievement for him. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by GodlyOtsemobor

[S_81 840]

Let’s say the club do the unexpected and actually relieve Wagner of his position today….clearly they won’t buy anyone out of a contract….:so what free agent is available who would do a better job with this squad? Would have to be a coach. Ralph Hassenhutl, Nathan Jones, Javi Gracia - possibly all realistic appointments. Graham Potter would say no. Lampard probably desperate enough now to say yes - and I could see us actually asking (but he’d be even more of a disaster). 
 

Who realistically would you want to come in? 

[repman 635]

1 hour ago, S_81 said:

Let’s say the club do the unexpected and actually relieve Wagner of his position today….clearly they won’t buy anyone out of a contract….:so what free agent is available who would do a better job with this squad? Would have to be a coach. Ralph Hassenhutl, Nathan Jones, Javi Gracia - possibly all realistic appointments. Graham Potter would say no. Lampard probably desperate enough now to say yes - and I could see us actually asking (but he’d be even more of a disaster). 
 

Who realistically would you want to come in? 

I don't know who I'd want but all of those names you've mentioned would be a hard no from me. The truth is I don't see any manager who will be able to turn things around quickly enough to make it worth it. The last 2 seasons have been characterised by us trying to get promoted at all costs and it turns out we're nowhere near, it'd be foolish to keep chasing that goal when we know it's not sustainable. It's popular on here to say we're back to where we were when Webber took over but it's basically true. The squad needs rebuilding and trying to do that along with chasing promotion is a tough task. 

In my view, the next manager would be a young coach who is on an upward trajectory, instead of an experienced head who, like Wagner and Smith before him, has seen their career dip and is trying to arrest their own personal slide.