match thread *official Lappinitup match thread Canaries V Foxes*

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,442]

25 minutes ago, Keith Scott said:

Anyone would think Leicester were Barcelona the way the muppets on here are creaming themselves over them. They were nothing special. A good team would have beat them last night. We were toothless. People banging on about Leicester being 'a Premier league team'. Burnley were twice as good last season. And look at them now! Leicester are a million miles from a 'Premier league team'. They ain't winning the championship. And we ain't finishing top 6 six.

You're welcome.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Well I'm bookmarking this one!

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

It's not just stupid, it's really f*cking stupid

😂 let’s see.

Sargent and Barnes are integral to Wagners system. He has no like for like replacements.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 hours ago, chicken said:

I see the usual folks are out in force to get the old underpant wetting ceremony going.

1st game we failed to score in this season.

Leicester are very much still a team with premier league players. Evidenced by the fact that they had players on the bench with top level experience we would probably have in our starting line up. Players that we'd unlikely afford if we were in the premier league. A sense of perspective needed I feel.

Cast your mind back to two promotion campaigns under Farke, we won against the other top 6 sides rarely, but won the league. Now, I am not expecting that this season. But we have just played the best team in this league at this time, and a team that will have to have some major slip ups not to win the title. A lot of folks felt that before a ball was kicked in anger this season.

Now, if you are getting uppity about that, you are also likely to be one of the folks saying we'd be closer to relegation this season. Which means you are upset about the best team beating a bottom half team - you can't have it all ways.

Realistically, we are wanting a top six finish. Some folks are already writing that off despite our start being decent enough for that. We are miles better than last season and for periods of the game today we took it to Leicester and looked a match. Against that sort of quality though, you need to be 100% at your best. That was always going to be difficult.

I don't think this game will have a massive baring on our season. Nor will the return fixture. It's a long season and there are no great signs of concern at this point. Anyone jumping on either extreme are just daft. This rollercoaster has only just got going. 

Except that that was the third game in a row that we had long periods where we didn't perform well enough. Its not a concern right now as we did manage to beat Stoke but with Barnes out for a while, our striking attack looks thin.

[nutty nigel 7,647]

15 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Except that that was the third game in a row that we had long periods where we didn't perform well enough. Its not a concern right now as we did manage to beat Stoke but with Barnes out for a while, our striking attack looks thin.

I'd be interested to know which games we haven't had long periods where we didn't perform well. Maybe Millwall but they were poor. I doubt they'll be many games in the future we dominate to that extent. Apart from the season behind closed doors I can't remember many games in recent championship seasons that we dominated for 90 mins. It's a good league where everybody has a chance against everybody else. 

[The Raptor 1,246]

2 hours ago, Keith Scott said:

Anyone would think Leicester were Barcelona the way the muppets on here are creaming themselves over them. They were nothing special. A good team would have beat them last night. We were toothless. People banging on about Leicester being 'a Premier league team'. Burnley were twice as good last season. And look at them now! Leicester are a million miles from a 'Premier league team'. They ain't winning the championship. And we ain't finishing top 6 six.

You're welcome.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Who is your league winner then. Plus the rest of the top 6? I'll put a bet on. You get 10% of the winnings for a charity of your choice!

[daly 512]

20 hours ago, Mengo said:

I would say more than a little . WE deserved  a draw   one of those days. If leicester  are the benchmark , we have no worries in my opinion. Its football , some you win ,some you loose. 

 

Leicester didn’t seem to get above  second gear they were in control most of the game

 

[nutty nigel 7,647]

We’ve played 7 games and have 13 points. If we assume that the 7 teams are a reasonable sample of the league this season then that translates to 85 points come next May.

Of course those 7 teams could end up the worst 7 in the league. If that’s the case there’s a fair chance we’ll finish above three of them to avoid relegation…

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I'd be interested to know which games we haven't had long periods where we didn't perform well. Maybe Millwall but they were poor. I doubt they'll be many games in the future we dominate to that extent. Apart from the season behind closed doors I can't remember many games in recent championship seasons that we dominated for 90 mins. It's a good league where everybody has a chance against everybody else. 

First four games we were pretty dominant throughout and even against Rotherham we had the lions share of the ball but didn't defend the long ball well. I must admit, I expect a passing side like us, especially if we go ahead early, to dominate the game.

Of course every team will have its moments against us. That is the nature of the game and sometimes the ref can change a game by a daft decision.

Last night, I was pleased with 2nd half although we got no reward. But we did keep up apace and willingness to push forward that was missing in the first half. Pity we packed midfield for the first 45 minutes.

[Indy 3,323]

Personally top 6 would be an achievement this season. Though we’ve added the experience needed we don’t have the quality in depth to sustain a good go at promotion.

But it’s an open league and a good run without injuries to key players for any decent team will see them likely go up. Preston are that side at present doing a Luton!

[nutty nigel 7,647]

28 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

Last night, I was pleased with 2nd half although we got no reward. But we did keep up apace and willingness to push forward that was missing in the first half. Pity we packed midfield for the first 45 minutes.

I agree with this.

After the first 30 mins we needed half-time and after the pen I feared the worst. But second half was different. After the changes, including Barnes, we were loads better and over the game we deserved 1-1. However we didn't take the chances we had so only had ourselves to blame. I read on here somewhere that Leicester had another gear. They didn't. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

35 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I agree with this.

After the first 30 mins we needed half-time and after the pen I feared the worst. But second half was different. After the changes, including Barnes, we were loads better and over the game we deserved 1-1. However we didn't take the chances we had so only had ourselves to blame. I read on here somewhere that Leicester had another gear. They didn't. 

I think Leicester are good. I think they look to counter attack because of the type of player they have. But I think we proved we can be good. Just missing a Wes I think.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

3 hours ago, daly said:

Leicester didn’t seem to get above  second gear they were in control most of the game

 

Completely disagree, Leicester were of course better in the first half without actually creating any open play threats. The penalty and one shot wide soon after were all they created. Second half they were not really at the races and very much under the cosh. Duffy’s header, Sara’s free kick, Kenny’s effort off the bar, it was only ever one team that looked like scoring and we were constantly winning the ball back high up the pitch. The quality of Dewsbury-Hall and us committing players forward left us open and knackered for their second, but we were chasing the game. 

I’m not disappointed by how we played. I am disappointed by Barnes injury though, real blow in my view. They offered grit and aside from Gibbs who seemed way off the pace I thought another good performance from Sara, Kenny, Dimi, Duffy, Stacey and even Idah and Placheta when they came on. Clear plan, just lacked the execution against the best squad in the division 

Edited September 21, 2023 by SwearyCanary

[Midlands Yellow 4,107]

10 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Is it Mary Jane’s or No.1 today ? At least the weather looks good and you won’t get blown off the pier.. Have a great day.

Haven’t been to Cromer for 40 plus years. It was actually really nice and a scenic train ride to boot. Resisted the variety show on the pier theatre though, maybe next time. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,362]

9 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Haven’t been to Cromer for 40 plus years. It was actually really nice and a scenic train ride to boot. Resisted the variety show on the pier theatre though, maybe next time. 

Cromer seems a timeless place. Glad you had a nice day but was it Mary Jane’s or Cromer No.1 for that skate and chips ? The fate of this forum may hang on it ( wink)

The pier show is pretty unique. I think it’s the  only one left in the world although thought I read there’s one in Europe somewhere..

[Midlands Yellow 4,107]

5 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Cromer seems a timeless place. Glad you had a nice day but was it Mary Jane’s or Cromer No.1 for that skate and chips ? The fate of this forum may hang on it ( wink)

The pier show is pretty unique. I think it’s the  only one left in the world although thought I read there’s one in Europe somewhere..

It was the Mary Jane (which was named after someone I knew in Leicester) the skate was excellent but buried the chips out of sight due to size. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,362]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It was the Mary Jane (which was named after someone I knew in Leicester) the skate was excellent but buried the chips out of sight due to size. 

Good man. I've never heard anyone complain about small portions at MJ's. ( lol )

It's hard to find anywhere that still does skate never mind well. The two shops at Wells-next-the-Sea used to do it at one time. Theirs was pretty good too but they stopped some time ago.

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

20 hours ago, Keith Scott said:

Anyone would think Leicester were Barcelona the way the muppets on here are creaming themselves over them. They were nothing special. A good team would have beat them last night. We were toothless. People banging on about Leicester being 'a Premier league team'. Burnley were twice as good last season. And look at them now! Leicester are a million miles from a 'Premier league team'. They ain't winning the championship. And we ain't finishing top 6 six.

You're welcome.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Given your team are 3rd in the table, I'd have expected you to be more positive.

[Midlands Yellow 4,107]

Back in rainy Leicester and I have to admit the Foxes deserved the win. When did the Berstrete Gates close? Was looking forward to a can and few frames of pool. Popped in the Rose nearby but the aroma of BO meant I could only handle two rounds in there. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,271]

17 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

When did the Berstrete Gates close? 

About 20 years too late. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,107]

2 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

About 20 years too late. 

You were a regular I take it? 

[chicken 2,654]

On 21/09/2023 at 03:22, TheBaldOne66 said:

We have lots of Premier League experience in our squad too don’t we? How many of ours last night have played in the top flight? You cannot use the excuse Leicester had Premier League players really can you? 
 

No great concerns either? Really? Our two main strikers now appear to be injured so surely that’s a major concern? 

Of course I can. "Lots of premier league experience in our squad" equates to:

Hanley - currently out injured and not available.
Onel - out injured for the majority of one campaign, back for project restart, loaned out for the 2nd, so hasn't played premier league football since the 19-20 season. We've had three seasons since then.
Placheta - fleeting appearances last premier league season.
McLean - two seasons in the premier league with us, that's it. A lot of people don't think he is particularly a premier league player either.
Gibson - one premier league season with us, one or two mostly sitting on the bench for Burnley.
Giannoulis - one premier league season where Williams was largely preferred to him.
Stacey - 29 premier league appearances.
Gunn - 31 premier league appearances across three seasons mainly playing 2nd fiddle.

Lets just skip that shall we as I think you get the picture. The most premier league experienced players we have are Barnes with  200 premier league appearances for Burnley over 7 seasons. Then Duffy, with 119 premier league appearances in 7 seasons. 

Vardy has 307 appearances over 9 seasons one of which gave him a title medal. Ndidi has 192 in 7 seasons and is in his prime at 26. Both have played in Europe, both have played for their international side.

Just saying "experience" doesn't mean anything. We don't have as much premier league experience in our squad, and arguably, we have only one player who ever established themselves as a regular for a successful premier league side and that is Barnes. At this point, the attempt to argue back is just foolish at best. If you honestly think we have the same quality of squad as Leicester, or even one with comparable experience, you are just way, way, way off.

 

[chicken 2,654]

On 21/09/2023 at 16:19, keelansgrandad said:

Except that that was the third game in a row that we had long periods where we didn't perform well enough. Its not a concern right now as we did manage to beat Stoke but with Barnes out for a while, our striking attack looks thin.

Again, this is just football naivity. There are three periods of the game, the two key ones everyone should know are pretty basic, when your team has the ball and when the opposing team have the ball. To be a good side, you have to be good at both because even good sides will have periods of games when they don't have the ball.

When you don't have the ball it tends to be because for whatever reason, the passing is missing it's mark, touches are letting players down, focus is off, the play is too predictable or the opposition find a burst of energy, their focus improves, their passing improves etc.

As @nutty nigel has said, every team will have poor periods in games. We tended to under Farke. In fact, I would say that at times we could be far more frustrating. We struggled to come from behind, we could play better with the ball and possession for 60-70% of games and still lose 2-1 because we were so defensively frail. Underlined by the fact that when we got to the premier league against better defences we struggled to score and against better attacks they found our soft underbelly and found it easy to put us to the sword. Additionally, we didn't have a great record against other top six sides in the championship.

It's part of football, at that point, when you have lulls, when not retaining and using the ball as well, you switch into game management mode. Where do you try and push the ball to be past to? Do you press to push it back to their back four? Do they have a diminutive striker so you keep it wide? You focus on preventing shots, crosses, balls into around the box...

Attacking play can be poor, but your defensive play may well be amazing. It really isn't just as simple as to say we have poor periods, especially if you are trying to suggest that our team is poor when clearly that isn't the case.

Fas shouldn't have stuck his hands out. Had he not, that first half was 0-0. Leicester huffed and puffed and at times played some nice football but still didn't fashion much. They were going at it all right. Teams like that would like to have goals for that sort of retention and pressure. 2nd half they got their goal mainly because we pushed on to try and equalise. Very much a counter attack goal with more space in behind with our team pushed higher up to apply more pressure. As pointed out, we had more chances in the 2nd half and it would not have been unfair if we  scored one or two - Kenny especially was very unfortunate.

But if you seriously think we should be finding it easier against teams like Leicester, you really do need to check the teamsheets and ask yourself which team has players with European experience, premier league title winner medals, international tournament appearances for top 20 fifa ranked international sides? 

[chicken 2,654]

On 21/09/2023 at 06:46, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

There really are. Namely injuries to Sarge and Barnes. Without them we are toothless and weakened substantially.

I’ll make a bold prediction. No more than 10 points from here until January, assuming Barnes is out. 

Not a bold prediction, a rather dull and pathetic one. Not "bold" to predict defeat, it's easy, cowardly and simple. Bold is to be brave, go against the odds etc.

I would also add that we haven't seen what will happen yet so we don't know whether we will be toothless or not. Idah has linked up nicely a few times with Rowe, could we be about to see that combination up top? 

The rest of the team continue to compete well. I thought that was the case against Leicester, and like our experiences in the premier league, in the words of Daniel Farke, we lost because of little moments. Those moments were Fas shoving a player, Giannoulis not getting a pen for arguably worse, Kenny's shot off the bar, Sara not quite replicating a Vrancic free kick stunner, Duffy not taking his chance and Leicester springing the perfect counter.

Sometimes, rather than being super simple and just looking at the results or injuries, look at the performance. I've said this to posters like you time and time again. Football can be a funny old game. You can play better than the opposition but lose, sometimes by more than one goal. Equally you can play worse than the opposition and still win, by more than one goal. I have seen some thrilling 0-0 draws and some boring 2-2 draws. And of course, visa versa.

You cannot just take the result on face value. Since you bring up Sargent I'll ask a question - do you think we'd have gotten more from the game against Leicester with Sargent up top? 

[TheBaldOne66 702]

26 minutes ago, chicken said:

Of course I can. "Lots of premier league experience in our squad" equates to:

Hanley - currently out injured and not available.
Onel - out injured for the majority of one campaign, back for project restart, loaned out for the 2nd, so hasn't played premier league football since the 19-20 season. We've had three seasons since then.
Placheta - fleeting appearances last premier league season.
McLean - two seasons in the premier league with us, that's it. A lot of people don't think he is particularly a premier league player either.
Gibson - one premier league season with us, one or two mostly sitting on the bench for Burnley.
Giannoulis - one premier league season where Williams was largely preferred to him.
Stacey - 29 premier league appearances.
Gunn - 31 premier league appearances across three seasons mainly playing 2nd fiddle.

Lets just skip that shall we as I think you get the picture. The most premier league experienced players we have are Barnes with  200 premier league appearances for Burnley over 7 seasons. Then Duffy, with 119 premier league appearances in 7 seasons. 

Vardy has 307 appearances over 9 seasons one of which gave him a title medal. Ndidi has 192 in 7 seasons and is in his prime at 26. Both have played in Europe, both have played for their international side.

Just saying "experience" doesn't mean anything. We don't have as much premier league experience in our squad, and arguably, we have only one player who ever established themselves as a regular for a successful premier league side and that is Barnes. At this point, the attempt to argue back is just foolish at best. If you honestly think we have the same quality of squad as Leicester, or even one with comparable experience, you are just way, way, way off.

 

Duffy? Idah? Forshaw? Batth? All have Prem experience. As for internationals we have a few too, too many to mention really.

Yet again you don’t give the full facts to balance the argument. As for how many games they played, surely that’s irrelevant as they were part of a squad that was in the Prem. 
 

I never mentioned anything about quality of squad either, but if you want to use these arguments why didn’t we go up last season as the squad had far more Prem experience and internationals then didn’t it? As for Barnes being part of a successful squad at Burnley if that’s the benchmark then Duffy is that category too surely? 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

34 minutes ago, chicken said:

Not a bold prediction, a rather dull and pathetic one. Not "bold" to predict defeat, it's easy, cowardly and simple. Bold is to be brave, go against the odds etc.

I would also add that we haven't seen what will happen yet so we don't know whether we will be toothless or not. Idah has linked up nicely a few times with Rowe, could we be about to see that combination up top? 

The rest of the team continue to compete well. I thought that was the case against Leicester, and like our experiences in the premier league, in the words of Daniel Farke, we lost because of little moments. Those moments were Fas shoving a player, Giannoulis not getting a pen for arguably worse, Kenny's shot off the bar, Sara not quite replicating a Vrancic free kick stunner, Duffy not taking his chance and Leicester springing the perfect counter.

Sometimes, rather than being super simple and just looking at the results or injuries, look at the performance. I've said this to posters like you time and time again. Football can be a funny old game. You can play better than the opposition but lose, sometimes by more than one goal. Equally you can play worse than the opposition and still win, by more than one goal. I have seen some thrilling 0-0 draws and some boring 2-2 draws. And of course, visa versa.

You cannot just take the result on face value. Since you bring up Sargent I'll ask a question - do you think we'd have gotten more from the game against Leicester with Sargent up top? 

Yes, 100%. 

The rest of your post it just noise, sorry.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

52 minutes ago, chicken said:

Again, this is just football naivity. There are three periods of the game, the two key ones everyone should know are pretty basic, when your team has the ball and when the opposing team have the ball. To be a good side, you have to be good at both because even good sides will have periods of games when they don't have the ball.

When you don't have the ball it tends to be because for whatever reason, the passing is missing it's mark, touches are letting players down, focus is off, the play is too predictable or the opposition find a burst of energy, their focus improves, their passing improves etc.

As @nutty nigel has said, every team will have poor periods in games. We tended to under Farke. In fact, I would say that at times we could be far more frustrating. We struggled to come from behind, we could play better with the ball and possession for 60-70% of games and still lose 2-1 because we were so defensively frail. Underlined by the fact that when we got to the premier league against better defences we struggled to score and against better attacks they found our soft underbelly and found it easy to put us to the sword. Additionally, we didn't have a great record against other top six sides in the championship.

It's part of football, at that point, when you have lulls, when not retaining and using the ball as well, you switch into game management mode. Where do you try and push the ball to be past to? Do you press to push it back to their back four? Do they have a diminutive striker so you keep it wide? You focus on preventing shots, crosses, balls into around the box...

Attacking play can be poor, but your defensive play may well be amazing. It really isn't just as simple as to say we have poor periods, especially if you are trying to suggest that our team is poor when clearly that isn't the case.

Fas shouldn't have stuck his hands out. Had he not, that first half was 0-0. Leicester huffed and puffed and at times played some nice football but still didn't fashion much. They were going at it all right. Teams like that would like to have goals for that sort of retention and pressure. 2nd half they got their goal mainly because we pushed on to try and equalise. Very much a counter attack goal with more space in behind with our team pushed higher up to apply more pressure. As pointed out, we had more chances in the 2nd half and it would not have been unfair if we  scored one or two - Kenny especially was very unfortunate.

But if you seriously think we should be finding it easier against teams like Leicester, you really do need to check the teamsheets and ask yourself which team has players with European experience, premier league title winner medals, international tournament appearances for top 20 fifa ranked international sides? 

The poster who won't have a bad word said against the club calls me naive. Arrogance at its finest.

Edited September 22, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[chicken 2,654]

6 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Duffy? Idah? Forshaw? Batth? All have Prem experience. As for internationals we have a few too, too many to mention really.

Yet again you don’t give the full facts to balance the argument. As for how many games they played, surely that’s irrelevant as they were part of a squad that was in the Prem. 
 

I never mentioned anything about quality of squad either, but if you want to use these arguments why didn’t we go up last season as the squad had far more Prem experience and internationals then didn’t it? As for Barnes being part of a successful squad at Burnley if that’s the benchmark then Duffy is that category too surely? 

You're not paying attention are you?

I have literally detailed it for you - the FACTS as you say. Barnes is miles ahead of any other player in our squad in terms of premier league experience. Duffy, as I posted, has 119 appearances.

Ndidi has 192 and is 26. 

Of course you didn't mention quality - that is exactly the point I made and I was originally making. You have simply taken "experience" and tried to run with it... badly. Tell me how many of our players have played consistently in the premier league over multiple consecutive seasons? Really easy answer that. 2.

Iheanacho, Vardy, Winks, Vestergaard, Choudhury, Ndidi, Pereira, all have over 100 appearances in the premier league and meet exactly that criteria. 

You're not going to argue this position by just saying "experience" and "facts" whilst pouting like Trump in the hope that people just nod along and have as poor a knowledge of football as you are displaying. 

[chicken 2,654]

8 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Yes, 100%. 

The rest of your post it just noise, sorry.

So you think we played well apart from finishing then? 

[chicken 2,654]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The poster who won't have a bad word said against the club calls me naive. 

Says the poster who makes up rubbish to try and discredit other posters.

If you think I won't have a bad word said against the club you really need to try harder. Unlike others though, I don't U-turn and pretend I didn't say things when I did. As I have previously pointed out to you before, I have been interviewed on live TV about D&M and suggested that it was time for them to go.

I have also been critical of Webber, Smith, Farke, last summers transfer policy and more. I have also been critical of the contracts handed out to Naismith, Klose, Pinto etc.

What I don't like is emotional views painted to look like they are based on more than a reaction to a result. Or people who only get silly when we lose, and not crazy when we win - at least be consistent. Or folks who say stuff like we are a mid table team then throw their sh!t about the place when we lose to the favourites to win the league... 

Or in this instance, people trying to down play a very strong Leicester side to make out as if we weren't beaten by a particularly good side and it was all down to us playing badly. In other words, they want to skew perspective to suit their narrative.

[vos 155]

On 21/09/2023 at 14:18, Keith Scott said:

Anyone would think Leicester were Barcelona the way the muppets on here are creaming themselves over them. They were nothing special. A good team would have beat them last night. We were toothless. People banging on about Leicester being 'a Premier league team'. Burnley were twice as good last season. And look at them now! Leicester are a million miles from a 'Premier league team'. They ain't winning the championship. And we ain't finishing top 6 six.

You're welcome.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Don't think I have seen before such a differing of opinions of this match. If it is due to some at the game and many others watching on TV I am not sure. I actually agree with Keith. So far as I can recall hardly any of the successfull Leicester premier side were on the pitch and I would not exactly describe their bench as "premier type". Did not see much quality on the pitch, the difference in the sides being Leicester showed more pace, mobility and effort. For me our main problem is midfield, the core being Sara attacking and McClean defending. Otherwise there is little cohesion. We frequently lose possession and unable to find space - apart from a few balls to Stacey -  and numerous passes go astray. We look ponderous going forward. Or, in plain English, we do not seem to have much of a team plan.

I am fully aware its early days etc etc and we have not been helped with injuries. But we seem miles away from Farke's best spells. David Wagner is a nice guy with a decent record but he has not been helped with our recruitment changing from "up and coming" to "down and going". I appreciate this is what football is all about and I can only hope I am proved wrong !!!