First definitive ground expansion confirmation?

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

21 minutes ago, Darth Vadis said:

Could you argue part of his return would be being owner/part-owner of a club with increased value because of stadium development?

Quite, he’s mentioned before about more corporate areas in the stadium. My brother in law had one at Leicester, they’re not cheap. 

[Commonsense 645]

9 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Hang on a cotton picking second

have you really just used that comparison?

Thing is you have to get there to be relegated and Boro only got their once and I bet comparatively we didn’t spend much more, given we had 2 more premier league wage seasons than they did. 

probably the most ridiculous comparison I’ve ever seen on here. 

That’s quite an achievement given most of Essex’s postings.

[yellowrider120 784]

2 hours ago, Davidlingfield said:

A substantial piece of work was done in 2016 looking at two options:

1. Expanding Carrow Road to a capacity of 35,000.

2. Moving site completely.

No. 2 was discounted pretty quickly for a number of reasons - available site, planning etc but no. 1 had quite a bit of work done on it but the financial return just didn’t work, despite an assumption of a fair chunk of hospitality income.

i can’t think with current interest rates and building costs that the situation has improved, so I would be sceptical about it happening, and if it did, I would be worried about financial impact.

Discounted because of a complete lack of willingness to positively consider it more like. Other clubs have (and continue to) find these 'alternative sites' and have successfully addressed the 'planning' aspects. Why should NCFC not be able to do the same??

[The Raptor 1,232]

By strange coincidence this came up on my Facebook feed earlier! We could've built a new ground in that empty space and still called it Carrow Road! If only we'd had a spare £100m then!

 

[shefcanary 2,453]

18 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Exactly what I was thinking. The upper tier would need to come up and out but leaving a service road underneath just so fans can actually get into the place as well as the players, emergency services etc etc. Probably do-able but how on earth they manage construction during a season I really don't know. 

Review the time lapse video of the Anfield Road extension project at Liverpool over the past 18 months. A constrained site but proves it can be done - if sufficiently resourced. Also a fascinating watch for nerdy Civil engineering freaks.

The key question, do you risk alienating the coffin dodging season ticket holders in the City Stand and replace the City Stand in one, or spend more on a two part build that doesn't inconvenience said coffin dodgers too much?

Or more likely defer a decision again as its all too difficult for a self funding community club. 

[NewNestCarrow 203]

Here are some rough figures (based around LFC)

£80,000,000 - Cost to add 8,000 new seats, using Up-and-Over building technique

£ 10,182,000 - Needed per year to repay cost of stand (based on 5% interest over 10 years)

£ 950 per year - Income each new seat needs to generate to cover the repayment costs

£ 630 per year - Income each current Carrow Road seat generates

£ 350 per year (est) - Income each current U21 ST-holder generates

 

LFC are paying for the expansion by flogging an additional 3,500 hospitality seats per match, ranging from £250-£460

The most expensive hospitality seat for a match at CR last season was just £200.

 

Filling a new stand at CR with youngsters & families (the fans that are allegedly being shut-out of supporting the club) will not generate enough income to pay for it.

EDIT - The majority of the new seats in the Anfield Road stand at Liverpool are priced at £45 / £54 per match (£24-£27 for Young Adults)

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by NewNestCarrow

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

 

18 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Review the time lapse video of the Anfield Road extension project at Liverpool over the past 18 months. A constrained site but proves it can be done - if sufficiently resourced. Also a fascinating watch for nerdy Civil engineering freaks.

The key question, do you risk alienating the coffin dodging season ticket holders in the City Stand and replace the City Stand in one, or spend more on a two part build that doesn't inconvenience said coffin dodgers too much?

Or more likely defer a decision again as its all too difficult for a self funding community club. 

Some very interesting stuff from Mister Drone on Youtube. Another thing I've noticed is that the footprint for the service area housing all the portakabins, materials etc is nearly as large as the stand itself. Luckily Carrow Rd has a sizeable carpark behind the Jarrold Stand which will undoubtedly be used for that purpose, so use of that by supporters during the construction period won't be possible.

I fear the coffin dodgers will have to take a hit. It's a balance of losing a season or two ST revenue vs doubling or trebling the built cost by fannying around with a phased build.

 

[For the future 69]

I hope Norwich City will wait until they are back in the Premier League before they make the city stand bigger .

[essex canary 506]

12 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Hang on a cotton picking second

have you really just used that comparison?

Thing is you have to get there to be relegated and Boro only got their once and I bet comparatively we didn’t spend much more, given we had 2 more premier league wage seasons than they did. 

probably the most ridiculous comparison I’ve ever seen on here. 

Boro typically spend £30 million on Wages all in each season, £65 million in their PL season. Our last 2 PL seasons finishing stone last have had wage bills of £89 million and £118 million. OK we enjoyed 3 glorious promotions relative to their 1 but does it leave us with any advantages now? We could easily have saved £80 million in those 2 most recent PL seasons for all the good it did.

[essex canary 506]

1 hour ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Here are some rough figures (based around LFC)

£80,000,000 - Cost to add 8,000 new seats, using Up-and-Over building technique

£ 10,182,000 - Needed per year to repay cost of stand (based on 5% interest over 10 years)

£ 950 per year - Income each new seat needs to generate to cover the repayment costs

£ 630 per year - Income each current Carrow Road seat generates

£ 350 per year (est) - Income each current U21 ST-holder generates

 

LFC are paying for the expansion by flogging an additional 3,500 hospitality seats per match, ranging from £250-£460

The most expensive hospitality seat for a match at CR last season was just £200.

 

Filling a new stand at CR with youngsters & families (the fans that are allegedly being shut-out of supporting the club) will not generate enough income to pay for it.

EDIT - The majority of the new seats in the Anfield Road stand at Liverpool are priced at £45 / £54 per match (£24-£27 for Young Adults)

 

 

 

That £630 quote is interesting. Presumably that is the seasonal average taking into account casuals, concessions and commercials? It broadly corresponds to expectations. Is there a clear source for it?

[percy varco 200]

6 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I can only imagine Zoe will be straight on to the architects and engineers this morning: “What are we paying you ********s hundreds of thousands of pounds for?!? Some guy on the PinkUn has solved the problem for us.”

 

(Feel free to tell me you’re actually an experienced structural engineer 😳)

Barcelona are using similar principles for Camp Nou works. There is a model showing it at the Camp Nou. 
 

[Yobocop 1,105]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

Boro typically spend £30 million on Wages all in each season, £65 million in their PL season. Our last 2 PL seasons finishing stone last have had wage bills of £89 million and £118 million. OK we enjoyed 3 glorious promotions relative to their 1 but does it leave us with any advantages now? We could easily have saved £80 million in those 2 most recent PL seasons for all the good it did.

Back tracking at its finest 

[Big Vince 319]

Unless the capacity goes up to 35,000 in one hit, it will not be worth the cost.

Would be insanely stupid to spend all that money for only a marginal increase in capacity.

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

6 hours ago, The Raptor said:

By strange coincidence this came up on my Facebook feed earlier! We could've built a new ground in that empty space and still called it Carrow Road! If only we'd had a spare £100m then!

 

Why have you been googling bog roll?

[Google Bot 3,301]

7 hours ago, The Raptor said:

By strange coincidence this came up on my Facebook feed earlier!

Fascinating picture, any idea what the yellow and purple building is bottom left?  It stands out so much with that colour scheme.

I guess looking at mapsit must be within all the industrial areas around Carrow Abbey? 

It's somewhere I've never ventured around before but curious to go for a walk round there now,  I'm usually coming in from up Thorpe way.

[essex canary 506]

2 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Back tracking at its finest 

How are Luton financing their new stadium? Suspect they won't be carrying a ridiculous Wage bill.

[Google Bot 3,301]

Just now, essex canary said:

How are Luton financing their new stadium? Suspect they won't be carrying a ridiculous Wage bill.

Isn't it going to be tied in as part of a larger site with other investments like Hotel and Retail areas to help cover the costs?

 

[Yobocop 1,105]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

How are Luton financing their new stadium? Suspect they won't be carrying a ridiculous Wage bill.

They have some land next to the m1 which had to be sold off with council approval for a new industrial area which would then finance the stadium build 

 

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Isn't it going to be tied in as part of a larger site with other investments like Hotel and Retail areas to help cover the costs?

 

Yes although if you saw the area you would never think they could fit a football stadium in it as well as all of that! 

the only real party who rejected the new stadium were the owners of the mall (formally arndale) so in true Luton town fc spirit the club removed their club shop from The mall and put it in a row a shops directly next to the mall 
 

 

[TIL 1010 4,793]

9 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

 

 

Yes although if you saw the area you would never think they could fit a football stadium in it as well as all of that! 

 

 

Brentford somehow managed to squeeze a quart into a pint pot Jez.

[Yobocop 1,105]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Brentford somehow managed to squeeze a quart into a pint pot Jez.

I wager this area is smaller but very true John 

[Nuff Said 5,177]

19 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Hang on a cotton picking second

have you really just used that comparison?

Thing is you have to get there to be relegated and Boro only got their once and I bet comparatively we didn’t spend much more, given we had 2 more premier league wage seasons than they did. 

probably the most ridiculous comparison I’ve ever seen on here. 

Yeah but it was just ridiculous in the moment. Essex’s posts are ridiculous in perpetuity.

[Nuff Said 5,177]

5 hours ago, percy varco said:

Barcelona are using similar principles for Camp Nou works. There is a model showing it at the Camp Nou. 
 

I bow to your clearly in-depth knowledge of the intricate details of the existing Norwich and Barcelona grounds and their respective expansion plans, which are clearly identical. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Nuff Said

[essex canary 506]

All very interesting. I thought we have had Land too from the Robert Chase days? Maybe it is just easier to build a new stadium? Either way the building costs need to be financed and if something different is needed it needs to be provided. We just seem to look for excuses.

The Liverpool thing looks to be pie in the sky for us not least because it is young people we need to accommodate not more middle aged and above corporates. 

Whilst nobody wants match ballots for season ticket holders, the Club has previously said that 10% don't turn up or hand their tickets back. When private handovers to friends and relations are taken into account that 10% is probably way exceeded. In that context perhaps there is room for some displacement if necessary for a more modest scheme?

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

6 minutes ago, essex canary said:

All very interesting. I thought we have had Land too from the Robert Chase days? Maybe it is just easier to build a new stadium? Either way the building costs need to be financed and if something different is needed it needs to be provided. We just seem to look for excuses.

The Liverpool thing looks to be pie in the sky for us not least because it is young people we need to accommodate not more middle aged and above corporates. 

Whilst nobody wants match ballots for season ticket holders, the Club has previously said that 10% don't turn up or hand their tickets back. When private handovers to friends and relations are taken into account that 10% is probably way exceeded. In that context perhaps there is room for some displacement if necessary for a more modest scheme?

Suggestion  No. 873 in the Ethics Book of Cloud Cuckoo  Land Unlikely Scenarios.  

[Nuff Said 5,177]

2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Suggestion  No. 873 in the Ethics Book of Cloud Cuckoo  Land Unlikely Scenarios.  

Only 873? Are you sure? 

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

Just now, Nuff Said said:

Only 873? Are you sure? 

Sorry , Volume 17 suggestion 873.  

[percy varco 200]

46 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I bow to your clearly in-depth knowledge of the intricate details of the existing Norwich and Barcelona grounds and their respective expansion plans, which are clearly identical. 

Just a suggestion that similar principles could be used. 
No idea if either will happen. 
You need to stop taking all you read on message boards as facts. 😘

[The Raptor 1,232]

4 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Why have you been googling bog roll?

This isn't going to just make itself is it?

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by The Raptor

[Yobocop 1,105]

On 29/06/2023 at 19:50, Yobocop said:

They have some land next to the m1 which had to be sold off with council approval for a new industrial area which would then finance the stadium build 

 

Yes although if you saw the area you would never think they could fit a football stadium in it as well as all of that! 

the only real party who rejected the new stadium were the owners of the mall (formally arndale) so in true Luton town fc spirit the club removed their club shop from The mall and put it in a row a shops directly next to the mall 
 

 

Went and took a photo this week, this is where they are building the stadium… @TIL 1010 

[Commonsense 645]

On 29/06/2023 at 20:01, TIL 1010 said:

Brentford somehow managed to squeeze a quart into a pint pot Jez.

They did, but at the time they were a relatively small club. They’ve ended up with a new stadium which is clearly too small for their current needs.