Wagner's position now

[canarybubbles 1,975]

Wagner looks in an unenviable position following the announcement that Webber is stepping down but may not leave the club until March 2024. In a couple of weeks Wagner will have to try to inspire and unite a group of players who will know full well that he may well be sacked as soon as a new SD comes in.

A great start to such a critical new season.

Let's hope an announcement about the new guy is made very soon so that the uncertainty doesn't hang over the club for the next six months. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by canarybubbles

[Old Shuck 196]

...but the club may stress at the interview stage or prior to applications even being made, whatever, that the "...successful incumbent will be required to work with the existing coaching and management team..."bla bla bla.

It's by no means a given they're going to come along and immediately want Wagner et al out-especially as one of the coaches in his entourage doesn't even officially join us until the end of the month.

 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,051]

Another stick to beat Webber with, I agree that the guy is a little **** but when it comes to shifting jobs you have to look after yourself.

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 927]

I’m fairly sure there will be a swift appointment for his successor. It seems an odd time to make it public should a replacement not be imminent. 

[lake district canary 4,572]

Wagner is in an unenviable position whatever the situation and whoever the SD is. He is under pressure to succeed all the time and with the poor showing over the end of this last season, he is going to be under even more pressure and need to get something going straight away next season, or the usual suspects will be out baying for him to be sacked and that is regardless of who is or who isn't SD. 

People will say "give him 10 games" - and if we have a poor start, it will be difficult to turn that round and get the fans onside.  Farke managed it in his second season after around ten games, with that 1-1 away at Portaloo Rd which seemed to be the catalyst for improvement, but that was with Pukki, Leitner at his best and with Max making his mark and the shape of things looking more promising.

It is difficult to imagine how next season will start, as we don't know who the players will be, who will be our Pukki, Leitner, Vrancic, Buendia etc etc......but it makes no difference to Wagner's position who the players are - he has to turn around a rather pathetic end of season into something that looks better, or he won't last long in the job.

So if things are changing at the top, it makes no difference - he has to do well, whoever his bosses are, or he will be out.

 

[canarybubbles 1,975]

10 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

...but the club may stress at the interview stage or prior to applications even being made, whatever, that the "...successful incumbent will be required to work with the existing coaching and management team..."bla bla bla.

It's by no means a given they're going to come along and immediately want Wagner et al out-especially as one of the coaches in his entourage doesn't even officially join us until the end of the month.

 

 

But what independently-minded SD would come in under such restrictions? They are already going to have a first half of the season (at least, and probably much longer) when they have to work to an already-agreed style of football with a bunch of new players recruited by the ex-SD and therefore hard to shift because they'll be on new contracts. A yes-man may be willing to agree to taking the job under such conditions, but I doubt if anyone with talent and imagination will.

I agree that it isn't a given that a new SD would want Wagner out.  

[canarybubbles 1,975]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Wagner is in an unenviable position whatever the situation and whoever the SD is. He is under pressure to succeed all the time and with the poor showing over the end of this last season, he is going to be under even more pressure and need to get something going straight away next season, or the usual suspects will be out baying for him to be sacked and that is regardless of who is or who isn't SD. 

People will say "give him 10 games" - and if we have a poor start, it will be difficult to turn that round and get the fans onside.  Farke managed it in his second season after around ten games, with that 1-1 away at Portaloo Rd which seemed to be the catalyst for improvement, but that was with Pukki, Leitner at his best and with Max making his mark and the shape of things looking more promising.

It is difficult to imagine how next season will start, as we don't know who the players will be, who will be our Pukki, Leitner, Vrancic, Buendia etc etc......but it makes no difference to Wagner's position who the players are - he has to turn around a rather pathetic end of season into something that looks better, or he won't last long in the job.

So if things are changing at the top, it makes no difference - he has to do well, whoever his bosses are, or he will be out.

 

 

This all adds to the pressure, though. I can't understand the timing to this announcement unless, as By Hook says, an appointment is imminent or Webber already has the job at Leeds.

Edited June 14, 2023 by canarybubbles

[Ulfotto 669]

Webber called it right we are expected to win every home game in the championship in style.

Wagner has to live with that.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

But this is where DW has to prove he is the man for the job. 

I do get a bit fed up at times when I hear various coaches explaining they were sacked because they didn't get the backing. But surely they told their respective employers the ywere the ones for the job out of a shortlist of similar minded coaches.

Wagner now has to put up. So many posters on here are telling us we have the makings. That Sara and Nunez will blossom. Idah will come good. I hope its true. And there is no reason for DW to fail if the players are that good.

I am not expecting us to finish in the top two at this moment. But Iam expecting better, organised attacking football to watch next season. And then who knows. But its up to DW to now fulfil wha the probably said at his interview. If that is pressure then its self inflicted.

[Nexus_Canary 1,051]

Organised attacking football, some home wins, no losses to the scum, playoffs and no fcuking drum at carrow.

 

I don't ask for much

[Yobocop 1,106]

Another doomsday scenario - fortunately we’re all living in the real world here of football finances rather than fantasy 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,423]

He’s definitely on shaky ground- but then he was already given a record of one win in eleven. One might ask if Webber didn’t sack him because he didn’t care being a bit detached from our long term health. On the other hand you could argue Wagner gets to be the stability and may benefit from becoming the main man this summer. But bottom line is that the club seems to be in chaos at the moment - on almost all levels- and that is rarely a recipe for success 

[NFN FC 1,123]

Imagine what the Watford players must think! 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,924]

Or not necessarily, according to The Athletic.

https://theathletic.com/4607081/2023/06/14/stuart-webber-norwich-city-departure?source=user-shared-article

"It could also be that current head coach David Wagner will get a say in who replaces Webber. Wagner’s experience in Europe could open Norwich to potential fresh candidates and Webber may feel he owes Wagner a degree of influence in the decision given he could potentially be leaving the head coach he appointed to fend for himself in the coming months."

Interestingly, the article was co-written by Michael Bailey and Phil Hay, who is The Athletic's Leeds correspondent.

[norfolkngood 1,101]

12 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Or not necessarily, according to The Athletic.

https://theathletic.com/4607081/2023/06/14/stuart-webber-norwich-city-departure?source=user-shared-article

"It could also be that current head coach David Wagner will get a say in who replaces Webber. Wagner’s experience in Europe could open Norwich to potential fresh candidates and Webber may feel he owes Wagner a degree of influence in the decision given he could potentially be leaving the head coach he appointed to fend for himself in the coming months."

Interestingly, the article was co-written by Michael Bailey and Phil Hay, who is The Athletic's Leeds correspondent.

Can not have the Tail wagging the dog ,

The DOF is in charge you can not have the manager who 1 win in 11 help choose who to  work with ,

Wagner for me has to prove he is the standard to be Norwich Manager at the moment he is failing ,

The DOF might have to sack DW after 10 games if things do not improve 

[alex_ncfc 668]

That article is nonsense, there is no way Wagner would have any say in who the replacement will be.

Although this is Norwich City FC, so actually, he probably will.

[NFN FC 1,123]

I don't think it really changes his position. If he has a bad start, offty fukty, whoever DoF is. 

Coaches these days live life on the precipice of sacking. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,369]

7 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

I don't think it really changes his position. If he has a bad start, offty fukty, whoever DoF is. 

Coaches these days live life on the precipice of sacking. 

DW really could do with a good start.

Sadly Norwich don’t do good starts.

[repman 646]

52 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Or not necessarily, according to The Athletic.

https://theathletic.com/4607081/2023/06/14/stuart-webber-norwich-city-departure?source=user-shared-article

"It could also be that current head coach David Wagner will get a say in who replaces Webber. Wagner’s experience in Europe could open Norwich to potential fresh candidates and Webber may feel he owes Wagner a degree of influence in the decision given he could potentially be leaving the head coach he appointed to fend for himself in the coming months."

Interestingly, the article was co-written by Michael Bailey and Phil Hay, who is The Athletic's Leeds correspondent.

The biggest concern in the article was the suggestion that Webber will have some influence over his replacement. Considering he has continually appointed people he's friends with what's to stop him doing so again?

Although to be fair I'm not sure how much weight I'd put into any reporting, they all seemed as surprised as the rest of us when the news dropped.

[Google Bot 3,397]

1 hour ago, alex_ncfc said:

That article is nonsense, there is no way Wagner would have any say in who the replacement will be.

We're a club, not a dictatorship.  If you're going to go through the process then it's wise to hear the thoughts of anyone who has experience in the coach/SD model is it not?

Wagner knows what's needed to go up and stay up, but most importantly he's learnt and been a part of clubs were mistakes have been made too.  You've got to be a complete plum to bypass your head coach when working out the progression of the club.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Google Bot

[Terminally Yellow 2,508]

1 hour ago, alex_ncfc said:

That article is nonsense, there is no way Wagner would have any say in who the replacement will be.

Although this is Norwich City FC, so actually, he probably will.

Of course he would, it's the most important relationship in the footballing side of the club. You don't think someone will ask, "Hey, Dave, what do you think of XXX?"

[S_81 927]

He’ll be gone by Christmas as he’s not up to the job. 

[Fen Canary 918]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Wagner is in an unenviable position whatever the situation and whoever the SD is. He is under pressure to succeed all the time and with the poor showing over the end of this last season, he is going to be under even more pressure and need to get something going straight away next season, or the usual suspects will be out baying for him to be sacked and that is regardless of who is or who isn't SD. 

People will say "give him 10 games" - and if we have a poor start, it will be difficult to turn that round and get the fans onside.  Farke managed it in his second season after around ten games, with that 1-1 away at Portaloo Rd which seemed to be the catalyst for improvement, but that was with Pukki, Leitner at his best and with Max making his mark and the shape of things looking more promising.

It is difficult to imagine how next season will start, as we don't know who the players will be, who will be our Pukki, Leitner, Vrancic, Buendia etc etc......but it makes no difference to Wagner's position who the players are - he has to turn around a rather pathetic end of season into something that looks better, or he won't last long in the job.

So if things are changing at the top, it makes no difference - he has to do well, whoever his bosses are, or he will be out.

 

Farke also didn’t have a restless crowd to contend with after what was a fairly average start. A few grumbles and pressure from the stands after the first 10 games could have led to a completely different season 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,423]

6 hours ago, S_81 said:

He’ll be gone by Christmas as he’s not up to the job. 

Sadly I fear this is right. I felt he should have gone at the end of the season as he so clearly failed to improve anything and made the most bizarre substitutions I have ever seen. He also seemed incapable of playing people in their actual positions. I can’t for the life of me see how he suddenly comes good- his last clubs were disasters too. bar one season he has failed routinely. 
 

And one must now question if Webber - who had one eye on the exit - had Norwich’s long term interests at heart when he kept him or if it was his mate Wagner’s interests he catered to out of a sense of guilt for dumping him in it for a second time of asking…

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dean Coneys boots

[S_81 927]

50 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Sadly I fear this is right. I felt he should have gone at the end of the season as he so clearly failed to improve anything and made the most bizarre substitutions I have ever seen. He also seemed incapable of playing people in their actual positions. I can’t for the life of me see how he suddenly comes good- his last clubs were disasters too. bar one season he has failed routinely. 
 

And one must now question if Webber - who had one eye on the exit - had Norwich’s long term interests at heart when he kept him or if it was his mate Wagner’s interests he catered to out of a sense of guilt for dumping him in it for a second time of asking…

It felt a punt at the time, and was certainly done as he was a known quantity to Webber, out of work and no release fee involved. 
The last 11 games were appalling. Many other clubs would have got rid by now - especially given his rolling contract. Webber being there has kept him here. And still does. But once Webber goes then unless he’s doing well then surely it’s time to say goodbye. 
 

I hope Wagner comes good with a bit of a squad shake-up and no injuries —especially as he seems a nice guy. But I’m highly doubtful he’s the man for the job that we need. But he’s in charge so let’s see. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,423]

I think he comes across as a lovely chap but the record speaks for itself- as did the total void of any obvious plan. By the end it was a total rabble on the field and easiest three points in the league for the opposition. Truly- he failed his interview any which way you cut it. But, as you say, he’s here so let’s back him 

[Capt. Pants 4,336]

Depends on results and to lesser extent performances.

Wagner is Webber's appointment and only on a 12 mth rolling contract, so not not unduly expensive to get shot of.

He'll get 10 games to show the home fans he's up to the job with a full squad.

 

[S_81 927]

13 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Depends on results and to lesser extent performances.

Wagner is Webber's appointment and only on a 12 mth rolling contract, so not not unduly expensive to get shot of.

He'll get 10 games to show the home fans he's up to the job with a full squad.

 

With Delia and co in charge he’ll likely get 20 regardless 

[Capt. Pants 4,336]

9 minutes ago, S_81 said:

With Delia and co in charge he’ll likely get 20 regardless 

Depends on the atmosphere in the ground. It was pretty poor at best last season, even after Wagner took over. Maybe with  Webber leaving the fans will unleash some love for the manager and players.

[Yobocop 1,106]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I think he comes across as a lovely chap but the record speaks for itself- as did the total void of any obvious plan. By the end it was a total rabble on the field and easiest three points in the league for the opposition. Truly- he failed his interview any which way you cut it. But, as you say, he’s here so let’s back him 

The record in which: 

> he had key players out injured including the captain, second most senior centre back and midfield engine. 

> players coming to the end of their contract with little to no motivation, wanting to get to the end of the season 

I know someone who will remain nameless at the club who was angry because he would always give 110% regardless but there were players in there who were clearly not trying going through the motions and it made him a little bit unpopular. 

a summer clear out is what we needed and what we have got - when Wagner came in it was already done so I think it’s only fair we judge him on the results with ‘his’ team following ‘his’ preseason campaign, a new set of players who are motivated with the current crop on a different path 

given our not so distant history I think it’s foolish to write off a manager after 6 months of being in post