Buy, Sell, Loan

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

Inspired by Sam Seaman's article today, I thought I might give this a go. A lot is pretty obvious and said by Sam, so I won't go into detail with everyone but focus on the ones I disagree with him.

Gunn - Keep
Krul - Sell 
Giannoulis - Sell
McCallum - Sell - Given his age and nationality I would think McCallum would have a few suitors and decent value despite what has been a bad season. I also think the chance to start over in what has been a particular area of weakness is not a bad thing. 
Aarons - Sell
Mumba - Keep - Although I am concerned that his abilities may make him a right sided version of Giannoulis, he's earnt his chance and should get it next season.
Hanley - Keep - Ignoring the fact he'll be here for the duration of his injury, we can't complain about a squad with a lack of character and experience and sell the man who offers the character and experience. I think we saw at the end of last season just how important he is, and I'd rather have him around as a squad player, continuing to offer that sort of experience. 
Gibson - Sell
Andy O - Sell - For a big offer only.
Tomkinson - Keep
Rashica - Sell
Tzolis - Sell - I just haven't seen anything that justifies keeping him around. Let him go back to Greece, which I think he left far too soon and far too young.
Rowe - Loan 
Springett - Loan
Onel - Keep
Placheta - Sell
Sorenson - Sell - I feel really sorry for Sorenson. He looks like he has ability with the ball at his feet. Yet he's been bought here touted as a defensive midfielder and played in pretty much every position except the one he's said to be best in. I've not seen anything about him that makes him a capable defensive player. Sam would keep him. I would sell. I think we can do better.
Gibbs - Keep - I'd make him the poster boy of the club, the guy who left our rivals and now stars in central midfield in our first team. A symbol of how you can work hard and make it in one of the best teams in England. 
Sara - Sell - The contentious one. I'd be happy to see Sara sold for a substantial profit. And I do mean substantial; £20m or more. That money could see us bringing in a whole lot of new talent - and while we would lose probably our most talented individual, I do think his inconsistency is a factor. I'd rather have a 7/10 performance most of the time, than a 10/10 performance every six or seven games. Appreciate not everyone will agree on this. 
Nunez - Keep - What would we get at the minute if we were to sell him? Probably not as much as bought him for. He's young, needed time to adapt and - I hadn't realised this - played for a long old time without a break.
McLean - Keep - Wouldn't have given him a new contract. 
Kamara - Loan
Idah - Loan - He needs a loan away not to help him develop anymore but just to rebuild some confidence away from a fanbase that have something against him. A sad thing to have to say.
Sargent - Keep - Think it's odd that Sam thinks we should sell our top scorer last season having already lost Pukki. 13 goals isn't a bad return from a player played in three different positions last year. He needs to be up front, made our main striker and develop relationships with the creative players to assist him in ways that will give him the best chances. We know he can score goals at this level. It seems daft to sell a young player, with a high profile who has that capability. 

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

You can only sell if someone is buying. I agree with much of what you are saying but we have to be realistic that if a lot are on contracts and they don't want to move, you are stuck with them.

[Branston Pickle 4,116]

I have to say that both you and Seaman seem rather intent on buying in an entirely new defence, which doesn’t seem realistic (he seems to think we’d sell Hanley, which feels unlikely…the only side likely to buy a player out for 6months is us!!).

I’m far from saying it doesn’t need work, but are we really going to leave ourselves with an entirely blank sheet of just one cb (Tomkinson, limited first team experience), no lb and one rb (Mumba, L1 experience)?  

I imagine this is what Wagner was talking about not doing everything in one window. 

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

Gunn - Keep
Krul - Sell 
Giannoulis - Sell
McCallum - Keep. Still young, and we had a rather unsettled season. If we can see a better player, keep him as back-up.
Aarons - Sell, only if eight figures.
Mumba - Keep
Hanley - Keep, he's naturally going to be on the chopping block but he should be given every chance to recover. 
Gibson - Keep, unless a good offer comes in, but he should be a back-up.
Andy O - Keep. Should be building him as the Hanley replacement
Tomkinson - Loan out.
Rashica - Sell. He doesn't want to be here.
Tzolis - Keep, but like a couple of others, he's heading towards the last-chance saloon. Could be a Loan case.
Rowe - Keep, look at him pre-season and see if he does an Omo and fly into consideration, otherwise Loan.
Springett - Same as Rowe.
Onel - Keep, but he should be an impact sub.
Placheta - This could be controversial, but keep, but in the last-chance saloon. I think he's suffered badly from Pukki being our main striker as he can't hit through balls. Put strong players in the air for him to aim at and he might have a chance. Not to mention his pace and stamina should help a forward press. If he doesn't take to it after that though, he has to go.
Sorenson - Keep. He's not the player to grab hold of a defence, but he looked shaky when we had the whole spine missing. Put a pacier sort alongside him in defensive midfield and I'm confident he'll look very good.
Gibbs - Keep. Absolute no-brainer.
Sara - Keep. In theory he can only get better having settled in. He should hopefully be less inconsistent. Another absolute no-brainer.
Nunez - Keep. And do NOT put him as a deep-lying midfielder. He should be in the hole.
McLean - Keep. 
Kamara - Same as Rowe.
Idah - Loan. Put him at a team like Bolton on loan, a ball-playing side that move the ball well.
Sargent - Keep. No-brainer. Start playing more out-and-out wingers as he can really attack the ball in the air.

Edited May 26, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Branston Pickle 4,116]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Gunn - Keep
Krul - Sell 
Giannoulis - Sell
McCallum - Keep. Still young, and we had a rather unsettled season. If we can see a better player, keep him as back-up.
Aarons - Sell, only if eight figures.
Mumba - Keep
Hanley - keep
Gibson - Keep
Andy O - Keep. Should be building him as the Hanley replacement
Tomkinson - Loan out.
Placheta - This could be controversial, but keep

I avoided quoting your entire list - this thread would get unwieldy - but it is probably more akin to mine.  We are likely to see quite a bit of shifting in and out but surely need some continuity in defence.  We do also have a few ‘released’ players to replace.

Omobamidele does seem a likely leaver, based on what Webber said, but he did say he’d be pleased if he was around.  If he goes Gibson is surely more likely to stay.

I do also wonder if Wagner might decide to give Placheta a go - he’s largely a forgotten man but may suit Wagner’s style.  It’s odd how some seem so willing to dump him but if anything been given less opportunity than Tzolis.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,497]

Gunn - Keep
Krul - Sell 
Giannoulis - Sell
McCallum - Keep.
Aaron’s - keep - he’s one of our best!! 
Mumba - Keep- but convert him to RW 
Hanley - Keep, but don’t expect him to play this season so get a replacement - see in Jan where he is at 
Gibson - Keep, but shouldn’t be starting 
Andy O - Keep.
Tomkinson - Loan out.
Rashica - Sell.
Tzolis - Keep,
Rowe - Loan.
Springett - loan 
Onel - Keep
Placheta - sell at any price 
Sorenson - Keep. Play in his actual position 
Gibbs - Keep.
Sara - Keep.
Nunez - Keep. Feel he will come good 
McLean - Keep solid enough 
Kamara - loan
Idah - sell - just not working and don’t think he’s champ standard 
Sargent - Keep.
Barnes - keep obviously to mentor Sarge 

 

sign: RB, 2 x CB, CDM x2 LB x1 and ST

 

we can’t afford to do that if we keep our best - Aaarons and Andy O - so don’t expect promotion charge 

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

20 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I avoided quoting your entire list - this thread would get unwieldy - but it is probably more akin to mine.  We are likely to see quite a bit of shifting in and out but surely need some continuity in defence.  We do also have a few ‘released’ players to replace.

Omobamidele does seem a likely leaver, based on what Webber said, but he did say he’d be pleased if he was around.  If he goes Gibson is surely more likely to stay.

I do also wonder if Wagner might decide to give Placheta a go - he’s largely a forgotten man but may suit Wagner’s style.  It’s odd how some seem so willing to dump him but if anything been given less opportunity than Tzolis.

Said that for a bit, I think he's one of those who suffered from Pukki being so successful and the team being built around that. Dowell and Pukki worked well as Dowell likes hitting deft channel balls like Buendia did, and Pukki loved running onto those. Placheta's problems start when you make him overthink - you can see the cogs whirring and smoking as they don't function.

All you need to do with him is tell him "either cross one in early or cut in. If you cut in, play the easiest ball". We know he'll chase and press and that kind of thing will give defenders the hurry-up. If that doesn't work, then he can go.

Edited May 26, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Nexus_Canary 1,183]

Thank god Sam seaman is just a journo.

Total muppet selling the entire defence and sarge.

Bloke is deluded to think people are going to want to come here after last season.

 

Sam Seaman : sell. Free transfer to first available home for crap writers

[Yobocop 1,424]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Inspired by Sam Seaman's article today, I thought I might give this a go. A lot is pretty obvious and said by Sam, so I won't go into detail with everyone but focus on the ones I disagree with him.

Gunn - Keep
Krul - Sell 
Giannoulis - Sell
McCallum - Sell - Given his age and nationality I would think McCallum would have a few suitors and decent value despite what has been a bad season. I also think the chance to start over in what has been a particular area of weakness is not a bad thing. 
Aarons - Sell
Mumba - Keep - Although I am concerned that his abilities may make him a right sided version of Giannoulis, he's earnt his chance and should get it next season.
Hanley - Keep - Ignoring the fact he'll be here for the duration of his injury, we can't complain about a squad with a lack of character and experience and sell the man who offers the character and experience. I think we saw at the end of last season just how important he is, and I'd rather have him around as a squad player, continuing to offer that sort of experience. 
Gibson - Sell
Andy O - Sell - For a big offer only.
Tomkinson - Keep
Rashica - Sell
Tzolis - Sell - I just haven't seen anything that justifies keeping him around. Let him go back to Greece, which I think he left far too soon and far too young.
Rowe - Loan 
Springett - Loan
Onel - Keep
Placheta - Sell
Sorenson - Sell - I feel really sorry for Sorenson. He looks like he has ability with the ball at his feet. Yet he's been bought here touted as a defensive midfielder and played in pretty much every position except the one he's said to be best in. I've not seen anything about him that makes him a capable defensive player. Sam would keep him. I would sell. I think we can do better.
Gibbs - Keep - I'd make him the poster boy of the club, the guy who left our rivals and now stars in central midfield in our first team. A symbol of how you can work hard and make it in one of the best teams in England. 
Sara - Sell - The contentious one. I'd be happy to see Sara sold for a substantial profit. And I do mean substantial; £20m or more. That money could see us bringing in a whole lot of new talent - and while we would lose probably our most talented individual, I do think his inconsistency is a factor. I'd rather have a 7/10 performance most of the time, than a 10/10 performance every six or seven games. Appreciate not everyone will agree on this. 
Nunez - Keep - What would we get at the minute if we were to sell him? Probably not as much as bought him for. He's young, needed time to adapt and - I hadn't realised this - played for a long old time without a break.
McLean - Keep - Wouldn't have given him a new contract. 
Kamara - Loan
Idah - Loan - He needs a loan away not to help him develop anymore but just to rebuild some confidence away from a fanbase that have something against him. A sad thing to have to say.
Sargent - Keep - Think it's odd that Sam thinks we should sell our top scorer last season having already lost Pukki. 13 goals isn't a bad return from a player played in three different positions last year. He needs to be up front, made our main striker and develop relationships with the creative players to assist him in ways that will give him the best chances. We know he can score goals at this level. It seems daft to sell a young player, with a high profile who has that capability. 

So essentially we’ve got 9 players (including Tompkinson who has played a handful of games and Hanley who will be out injured until Xmas) currently and the rest are off 

stu better get on the phone to the FDC and enter us into the Monday night 7-a-side league for next season 

[tricky974 63]

Whoever you think we should buy, sell or loan, I think that the general consensus is that we need to make changes.

Whether or not we will see the required changes will remain to be seen.

There are some big clubs coming down, which makes the league even harder and if we play next season the same way we played this season we would be in trouble.

[Yobocop 1,424]

Gunn - Keep 
Krul - keep - as no 1 
Giannoulis - keep - will come good next season 
McCallum - keep - good back up 
Aarons - Sell - have it on good authority it’s a done deal and he’s off 
Mumba - Keep  - Aaron’s replacement 
Hanley - Keep - 
Gibson - keep - experienced at this level 
Andy O - Sell - sounds like he’s off 
Tomkinson - loan - at league one 
Rashica - Sell 
Tzolis - keep - think he’ll come good with a preseason behind him 
Rowe - Loan - disrupted year last year needs a loan 
Springett - Loan
Onel - sell - one that’ll upset the fan boys but he’s not good enough 
Placheta - Sell - not good enough 
Sorenson - keep - mr utility 
Sara - keep - why sell our best player, OP talked about consistency however overlooked it was his first year at the club needs time to settle 
Nunez - Keep - as above 
McLean - Keep - missed him in the run in 
Kamara - Loan 
Idah - Loan - not a complete write off but think a drop down to league one would do him some good 
Sargent - Keep - as OP said why sell a key performer in his correct position? But then OP contradicted himself by saying ‘why sell a high profile player who has the capability’ then casting others aside 

[BroadstairsR 2,272]

A rebuild starts from the back, imo. A solid backline of players who are primarily defenders, and that includes full-backs. If Mumba is a defender then I'm a banana. If wing-backs are the order of the day, then it's three central defenders for me, which means four on the books at the very least.

Omo: Keep. I think his value will rise. The boy is 20 with 6 full caps. Only an enormous outlay would wish me to see him gone.

Gibson: Poorish season for sure, but not the liability he's being made out to be. Keep, but I wouldn't mind seeing the back of him for a few million.

Tomkinson: A lot of faith seems to be laid on this young man's shoulders. Has he really only played one game for City? What is the faith based upon? 

Hanley: Will the same Hanley return? 

Sorensen: Centre back? Forget it.

Byram: Gone.

We need a couple of ready-made centre-backs, at least, in, rather than unload what we have, surely? 

If it means a punt on a couple of lower-leaguers then so be it. It worked for Lambert ..... Martin, Nelson, with Whitbread and Barnett from the Chumps.

Edited May 26, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

The reality in terms of the defence is that Aaron's is highly likely to  go, Hanley out for the rest of this year, Omo likely to go and Wagner can't make his mind up about Giannoulis or McCallum. If we get an offer for Gian I suspect he will go and we'll look for an upgrade on Sam. That's pretty much a new defence.

To be brutally honest if we could rely on Webber to improve the squad then I'd quite happily sell any of them.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,421]

Im just going to focus on the ones I think Sam's got wrong:

Hanley - There's no way we'd be able to sell him given his injury, we'll be keeping him for better or worse.

Kamara - Keep, because there's no way we'll buy 2 new strikers after Barnes, and see below.

Idah - Loan away from Carrow Road. Needs game time, an opportunity away from the crowd to find some goalscoring form. His confidence is shot to pieces.

Sargent - Sam thinks sell, I think he's off his rocker. We've lost Pukki already and he wants to cash in on the only other player who for a period this season knew where the net was? Crazy. Sarge needs to be the tip of the spear this season.

[norfolkngood 1,172]

33 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Im just going to focus on the ones I think Sam's got wrong:

Hanley - There's no way we'd be able to sell him given his injury, we'll be keeping him for better or worse.

Kamara - Keep, because there's no way we'll buy 2 new strikers after Barnes, and see below.

Idah - Loan away from Carrow Road. Needs game time, an opportunity away from the crowd to find some goalscoring form. His confidence is shot to pieces.

Sargent - Sam thinks sell, I think he's off his rocker. We've lost Pukki already and he wants to cash in on the only other player who for a period this season knew where the net was? Crazy. Sarge needs to be the tip of the spear this season.

i have a funny feeling Sarge may go this window ,

Played out of position out wide after doing so well upfront i doubt he enjoyed that ,

i know Pukki has now left so Sarge should be No1 striker 

he signed for us When we were PL like some in the past has he said i will give it a season to get us up then i want a move ? ,

he seems happy here but stranger things have happened 

[BroadstairsR 2,272]

8 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i have a funny feeling Sarge may go this window ,

Played out of position out wide after doing so well upfront i doubt he enjoyed that ,

i know Pukki has now left so Sarge should be No1 striker 

he signed for us When we were PL like some in the past has he said i will give it a season to get us up then i want a move ? ,

he seems happy here but stranger things have happened 

If he does go it will only be at a profit though. He's on a 4 year contract.

This would mean £10m+ and perhaps even more. Conceivably a lower PL club might deem it appropriate to fork out that sum for a back-up striker.

Sheff. U?

Such a sale, along with that of Sara and Omo would require a Webber miracle in the market place for us to avoid mid-Chumpship next season, imo.

Edited May 26, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[hertfordyellow 462]

I'm loving the posts which sell, loan everyone apart from 7 players. Pre-season would be very constructive.

[Nexus_Canary 1,183]

47 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I'm loving the posts which sell, loan everyone apart from 7 players. Pre-season would be very constructive.

Exactly it's not even funny it's stupid.

[slaphead 17]

Della sell

Jones sell

S Webber sell

Z Webber sell

Wager sell

 

[PockthorpePete 331]

7 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

You can only sell if someone is buying. I agree with much of what you are saying but we have to be realistic that if a lot are on contracts and they don't want to move, you are stuck with them.

Some bizarre thoughts on here. That we could sell Krul. The finances alone make that absurd. And we would then have to sign a good keeper to.....err, sit on the bench. Aarons will have to go unless he is prepared to sign for a low non PL contract.

We have to be mindful that anyone signed or given a new contract running after next summer could well have to be funded by a Championship budget. That will be the over riding determinate of who stays and who goes, and who joins.

[pete 362]

Lots of selling our second raters, can easily sell these but don't expect any transfer fees.  Most will want to stay to keep picking up from what are lucrative contracts for Championship players.  Op's  list rather a lot of players in there I agree get rid of many but see comments above.  Title of post was Buy, Sell or Loan lets have ideas on who to Buy and who to loan and get a proper discussion.

Buy 3 capable CB's, 2 FB's, a DM or two, a creative AM, a RW and a striker some list that don't think Webber can provide the shopping list.  No confidence in Wagner at all.  See a struggle again next season.  However rubbish we are there will still be 22K season tickets sold, how long will that go on.

[PockthorpePete 331]

4 minutes ago, pete said:

Lots of selling our second raters, can easily sell these but don't expect any transfer fees. 

Most will want to stay to keep picking up from what are lucrative contracts for Championship players.

 

So you do not actually sell them. And how do you convince a player to leave for a lower wages ?

[Newtopia 569]

Gunn - Keep 

Krul - Sell / Release

Giannoulis - Sell if we get more then 3M

McCallum - Keep

Aarons - Sell - 10M

Mumba - Keep - Left wing

Hanley - Keep

Gibson - Sell if we get more than 5M otherwise keep

Andy O - Sell - If more than 10M otherwise keep

Tomkinson - loan

Rashica - Sell - 5M

Tzolis - Keep

Rowe - Loan

Springett - Loan / Sell

Onel - Keep

Placheta - Sell for around 3M

Sorenson - Sell look for 2M

Sara - Sell if more than 20M, otherwise keep

Nunez - Keep

Gibbs - Keep

McLean - Keep

Kamara - Loan 

Idah - Loan

Sargent - Keep - Absolute no brained 13 goals in a season where he was useless after getting back from the world Cup.

My predicted first game line up

Gunn

New RB New CB Gibson McCallum

McLean Gibbs

Tzolis Nunez Mumba

Sargent

[Yobocop 1,424]

4 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Gunn - Keep 

Krul - Sell / Release

Giannoulis - Sell if we get more then 3M

McCallum - Keep

Aarons - Sell - 10M

Mumba - Keep - Left wing

Hanley - Keep

Gibson - Sell if we get more than 5M otherwise keep

Andy O - Sell - If more than 10M otherwise keep

Tomkinson - loan

Rashica - Sell - 5M

Tzolis - Keep

Rowe - Loan

Springett - Loan / Sell

Onel - Keep

Placheta - Sell for around 3M

Sorenson - Sell look for 2M

Sara - Sell if more than 20M, otherwise keep

Nunez - Keep

Gibbs - Keep

McLean - Keep

Kamara - Loan 

Idah - Loan

Sargent - Keep - Absolute no brained 13 goals in a season where he was useless after getting back from the world Cup.

My predicted first game line up

Gunn

New RB New CB Gibson McCallum

McLean Gibbs

Tzolis Nunez Mumba

Sargent

What’s this obsession with playing mumba out of position or is there something I’m unaware of? 
 

i don’t mean any disrespect but he’s a right back/wing back is he not? 

[7HAR1980 137]

Krul, Hanley, Gibson, McLean, Aarons. 

All players with promotions but failed premier league experience. 

They all have now failed at championship level this season.

Is the fight still there? Just something to think about.

[Newtopia 569]

7 hours ago, Yobocop said:

What’s this obsession with playing mumba out of position or is there something I’m unaware of? 
 

i don’t mean any disrespect but he’s a right back/wing back is he not? 

I may probably be wrong, but It is down to the times when I have seen him him play, plus my interpretation of the comments about him I have only heard from Plymouth in the media.  

He was really threatening playing left wing in the prem a couple of years ago before getting injured.  When I have seen him at right back he looked light weight.

He has had a good season at Plymouth, but that was deployed as a wing back, opposed to a full back, and it is his attacking threat which has drawn all the attention.

So assuming Wagner plays his 4 2 3 1 formation I thought he is probably suited to the more attacking role.

Time will tell.

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

19 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I have to say that both you and Seaman seem rather intent on buying in an entirely new defence, which doesn’t seem realistic (he seems to think we’d sell Hanley, which feels unlikely…the only side likely to buy a player out for 6months is us!!).

I’m far from saying it doesn’t need work, but are we really going to leave ourselves with an entirely blank sheet of just one cb (Tomkinson, limited first team experience), no lb and one rb (Mumba, L1 experience)?  

I imagine this is what Wagner was talking about not doing everything in one window. 

I think that's a fair comment. What I would say is this is supposed to be a summer of rebuilding. Rebuilding that requires the sale of players to fund that. Two of those earmarked for sale are our right back and central defender. A third regular defender is likely out for the majority of next season. We've also heard the guy who played left back for us is likely on the way too. 

So buying a whole defence isnt some pie in the sky fantasy I've just come up with for the sake of this thread - it's a likely reality. Sure, Gibson and McCallum are likely to be here next season, but I'm saying if the opportunity arises, they should be sold.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

Sara is the only decent player we have left at the club....sell him and i genuinely think we're in relegation trouble

At thd moment off the top of my head I'd say only cardiff birmingham rotherham and huddersfield are teams that we 'should' finish above.

Thats how far webber has allowed this squad to have been neglected

[Yobocop 1,424]

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Sara is the only decent player we have left at the club....sell him and i genuinely think we're in relegation trouble

At thd moment off the top of my head I'd say only cardiff birmingham rotherham and huddersfield are teams that we 'should' finish above.

Thats how far webber has allowed this squad to have been neglected

Hanley gibson mclean Krul gunn Nunez sargent 

we have a poor end to the season due to injuries to key players and people think we’re relegation fodder, unreal really 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

1 hour ago, Yobocop said:

Hanley gibson mclean Krul gunn Nunez sargent 

we have a poor end to the season due to injuries to key players and people think we’re relegation fodder, unreal really 

Hanley's out til christmas, Gibson's slow and error prone, McLean is sh!te , Krul is sitting on our bench, Nunez has flattered to deceive.

...still awaiting your valuations on ths below btw...

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary