Hernandez and Marquinos

[CANARYKING 644]

Can you tell me one thing they did between them

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,416]

Ran 

[AJ 1,230]

Ran around for 57 minutes?

[KeiranShikari 1,468]

One of them has a Norwich tattoo. MOTM

[CANARYKING 644]

Not one forward run

[Capt. Pants 4,284]

Both are sh1t.

Onel loves the club but that isn't enough. I love the club but I'm not good enough to play on the wing either.

The rebuild starts by getting shot of everyone out of contract.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

They both got wet for no reason. 

But I still think Onel is OK. Marquinhos must surely be the one who worked at Primark in Woolwich and not the Arsenal player.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,153]

Hernandez has always been a limited player who blows hot and cold. It wasn't his game tonight against a well organised team who didn't give him space. Marqhuinos doesn't hide either but is clearly a very limited player. I wouldn't blame those two specifically tonight. For where we want to be and with the wage bill we have Hernandez should be an off the bench wild card option and Marqhuinos should be a back up.

There was so much wrong with tonight regarding mentality, tactics and team set up but the fact we find ourselves relying on those two to provide service to Pukki is a damning indictment on the recruitment policy over the last few years. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I will forgive Onel because he’s been generally very good under Wagner.

Marquenos however has done nothing since his first game and has been a waste of a loan signing. 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I will forgive Onel because he’s been generally very good under Wagner.

Marquenos however has done nothing since his first game and has been a waste of a loan signing. 

Absolutely. Onel may blow hot and cold, but at least sometimes he is hot. Since promotion looks virtually impossible from here, Marquinhos shouldn't be on the pitch for another second. However poor people think Tzolis is, or however raw Rowe or Kamara might seem, they should get on the pitch in front of a loanee who has done zero since he arrived here.

I can imagine Webber saying, "But he comes from Arsenal!"

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

17 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Both are sh1t.

Onel loves the club but that isn't enough. I love the club but I'm not good enough to play on the wing either.

The rebuild starts by getting shot of everyone out of contract.

I almost guarantee that Onel will be better than anyone webber signs to try and replace him given he’s already had 4 goes at it and we still end up back with Onel. 

[Branston Pickle 3,696]

Tbh it seems to have been one of those games - we had ample chances to score a number of times and didn’t, they taught us a lesson on how to be clinical. To be 4-1 at the break was just weird on the play, but the game had gone (though even then we had yet another cast iron pen not given).

You have to give Onel a break, he’s been decent enough this season, but Marquinhos has just not delivered. Tzolis (if fit) or Rowe (if fit enough) should be worth a start midweek.

[Capt. Pants 4,284]

1 minute ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I almost guarantee that Onel will be better than anyone webber signs to try and replace him given he’s already had 4 goes at it and we still end up back with Onel. 

Rashica is way better but doesn't want to be here. Onel isn't the answer long term so we need to give Rowe or Springett a go. Even Tzolis needs to be nurtured. We have to rebuild and we start with out of contract players.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Rashica is way better but doesn't want to be here. Onel isn't the answer long term so we need to give Rowe or Springett a go. Even Tzolis needs to be nurtured. We have to rebuild and we start with out of contract players.

You forgot young Bali Mumba too to add to that list. 

[Branston Pickle 3,696]

6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Rashica is way better but doesn't want to be here. Onel isn't the answer long term so we need to give Rowe or Springett a go. Even Tzolis needs to be nurtured. We have to rebuild and we start with out of contract players.

Rashica is way better? Not based on any evidence that I saw when he turned out for us.  I think Rowe and Springett are the future, Tzolis if they can find his mojo. 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

I never want to see Marquinhos play for us again. Play Tzolis, he might be **** but he's our ****.

[Big O 225]

Onel needs a midfield to control the game so he gets the ball on the front foot 

[Canary Jedi 590]

44 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:I love the club but I'm not good enough to play on the wing either.

Are you sure? Might be worth trying out given the level of competition 

[Mason 47 1,403]

Both were poor tonight (Marquinhos I was surprised to see retain a starting spot, he strikes me as no more influential than Tzolis has been) but the midfield was totally out of it from early on.

It's all well and good including lots of attackers but if you can't reliably find them in dangerous spots, you might as well not bother. So often tonight the ball was turned over with 7-8 of our team ahead of the play- away at 3rd place?

I'd be putting *whoever* in at CB from now on to allow Sorenson to move into midfield and Gibbs to shift higher again. Second striker out, don't care which. Our problems, as under Smith, are structural.

 

 

[All the Germans 1,082]

Onel definitely has limitations, but he regularly causes a kind of chaos that we can benefit from in attack. If he is the best we've got, we're in trouble, but he is definitely worth keeping around as a part of the squad. Marquinhos on the other hand, I do not get. Always plays the safe, predictable, backwards pass. Never beats a man, never does anything progressive and may as well not be on the pitch. Brazillian on loan from Arsenal tells a whole different story to the reality of boring, passive  and predictable.

Edited April 14, 2023 by All the Germans

[chicken 2,649]

Marquinhos has just turned 20. He signed for Arsenal last summer from the same club Sara came from and has had limited game time.

I'm not disagreeing that he is not looking like the sort of loan we needed, especially when it started off with injury. But we also had next to no wingers at the point he was signed. Rowe was out injured, Springett had done ok but needed game time at a lower level ala Cantwell etc. Tzolis was recalled, again, mainly because we couldn't operate with just two wide players. 

The connection with Sara made him attractive, I suspect, because our scouts will have seen him play and having a friend already here would mean he would settle a bit faster.

It's clear he's still adapting to the English game and isn't there yet. At 20, he's still young. Sentiments are correct though, if results don't go our way this weekend and help us out a bit, then Wagner definitely has to start playing what he feels will be around our first 11 next season.

For me, Hernandez has to stay. He could well not. I think he brings more to the table than what is on offer on the pitch - he is a positive, hard working character - much like Tettey. He can be a handful and he has looked revitalised under Wagner. Certainly worthy of a place in the squad.

I'm more concerned about the one thing I have kept banging on about for what feels like three seasons at least, which is our defensive ability as a team. Not just the back four, but all over the pitch.

Sargent defends from the front, as does Pukki, but he needs to start stepping up on defensive set pieces a bit more - in the same way Jerome and Holt did. We know our midfield is a bit powderpuff, and I think we are seeing that Hanley, despite areas he isn't so great in, is probably our most physically dominant player. Reality is we are likely to miss him for a fair chunk of next season and he is not getting any younger either.

Today was a bit of a wake up call to people who thought Sorensen and Omobamidele were ready to step it up to be first team regulars IMHO. At least, certainly not without experienced heads around them.

All that said, take Pukki and Hernandez out of it and the next oldest player in the starting line up tonight was Gunn who is 27. Then it's Sorensen at 25. That's four of 11. The other 7 players, if I have this right, are all 23 or younger. Sara, Aarons, Sargent - 23, McCallum - 22, Marquinhos, Omobamidele, Gibbs - 20.

Too much youth. That loss of focus, some of that is down to experience, some of it is down to leadership - and some of that comes from experience. Some is also down to age. 

[Canario 208]

Fair point. And experience you need in CM. I get we wanted hayden for that but as he obviously wokldnt be fit, why didnt we sign a DM in jan? We didnt need marquiños. We did need a bloody midfield!

[Jim Smith 2,339]

8 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Both were poor tonight (Marquinhos I was surprised to see retain a starting spot, he strikes me as no more influential than Tzolis has been) but the midfield was totally out of it from early on.

It's all well and good including lots of attackers but if you can't reliably find them in dangerous spots, you might as well not bother. So often tonight the ball was turned over with 7-8 of our team ahead of the play- away at 3rd place?

I'd be putting *whoever* in at CB from now on to allow Sorenson to move into midfield and Gibbs to shift higher again. Second striker out, don't care which. Our problems, as under Smith, are structural.

 

 

We can all see this and could before the Rotherham game also. So it’s a worry that Wagner can’t. 

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

Increasingly I'm beginning to think we're sacrificing midfield solidity on the altar of playing with wingers.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

18 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Increasingly I'm beginning to think we're sacrificing midfield solidity on the altar of playing with wingers.

Yes and we have for 2 years now. With a main striker who is not suited to that system.

we have always been best in a 4-2-3-1. Maybe if we had a dominant defensive midfielder we could get away with one less in midfield but as we know we don’t have that. Since we’ve moved away from that or started playing one (or sometimes two) strikers in the 3 it’s all gone wrong. 
 

In fact someone posted the stats the other day didn’t they that showed that when we start with just the one striker our points per game return is promotion form. 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

51 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We can all see this and could before the Rotherham game also. So it’s a worry that Wagner can’t. 

Wagner isn't stupid. Which makes me wonder if Webber is sticking his nose into team selection and playing formations.

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Yes and we have for 2 years now. With a main striker who is not suited to that system.

we have always been best in a 4-2-3-1. Maybe if we had a dominant defensive midfielder we could get away with one less in midfield but as we know we don’t have that. Since we’ve moved away from that or started playing one (or sometimes two) strikers in the 3 it’s all gone wrong. 
 

In fact someone posted the stats the other day didn’t they that showed that when we start with just the one striker our points per game return is promotion form. 

We've always been best in a 4-2-3-1 when Pukki was up top with basically three "number tens" behind him. Sargent's got plenty of nuisance value up top and on another night he'd have had a hat-trick, but he really needs a winger sending balls in for him to attack. Pukki and Sargent up top get in each other's way a bit and also leave the team out of balance if we're putting wingers on.