I don’t care about the playoffs

[shefcanary 2,465]

1 minute ago, Matt Juler said:

Took a leap of faith that we'll not make it to Wembley and booked a week in Cornwall over the playoff final weekend.  Yesterday confirmed that I'm pretty certain that I've made the correct decision!

I've been holding off buying festival tickets for that weekend, thankfully they are not selling out yet, but wondering if I might bring that little bit of luck to Norwich by taking the plunge like you and getting tickets. What could go wrong?

[sgncfc 1,259]

12 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

failure to make top 6 in this dreadful league is an offence which Webber should be sacked / offer his resignation

Apart from that it would be a failure of Webber's own stated measure of success which is to establish the club as a top 26 side.

I can't remember such a poor Championship. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Apart from that it would be a failure of Webber's own stated measure of success which is to establish the club as a top 26 side.

I can't remember such a poor Championship. 

Although Boro, Blades, Millwall and Luton were up there last season and Burnley have won it.  So the poor results have come from us and Watford and West Brom who have had parachute payments.

[The Raptor 1,238]

Somehow, despite having a pretty indifferent season the Raptors have made the NBA playoffs. Could this be a good omen for Norwich?!

 

[PockthorpePete 331]

27 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Apart from that it would be a failure of Webber's own stated measure of success which is to establish the club as a top 26 side.

I can't remember such a poor Championship. 

Which is every reason for us to go up this season. There's a good chance one or more of the 'big' spenders will be relegated this year.

[nutty nigel 7,642]

Why is it a poor championship?

Is it because clubs without parachute payments are above where "football by money" states they should be? 

[Ian 1,136]

22 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

This.

I always thought the league table doesn't lie?

Could it be the fact our perception of what is a "good team" is heavily shaped by the media and what we are told day in day out?

Allegedly this squad was the best we've ever had in this division, and apparently now is an example of how dreadfully we've spent. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

3 minutes ago, Ian said:

I always thought the league table doesn't lie?

Could it be the fact our perception of what is a "good team" is heavily shaped by the media and what we are told day in day out?

Allegedly this squad was the best we've ever had in this division, and apparently now is an example of how dreadfully we've spent. 

I thought that as well until the concept of the 'false position' was popularised earlier in the season.

Our top drawer side was in a false position earlier in the season when they were at the top of the table, but now they're out of the top six they're underperforming.

It's a funny old game.

[Ian 1,136]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I thought that as well until the concept of the 'false position' was popularised earlier in the season.

Our top drawer side was in a false position earlier in the season when they were at the top of the table, but now they're out of the top six they're underperforming.

It's a funny old game.

To be fair we weren't overly convincing in that run of results, and it was early in the season.

But it's difficult to argue that it's disappointing to be below Luton after 41 games when they are pushing for second place.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

2 minutes ago, Ian said:

To be fair we weren't overly convincing in that run of results, and it was early in the season.

But it's difficult to argue that it's disappointing to be below Luton after 41 games when they are pushing for second place.

There you go then. The league table lies and it's not all about results, except when it is all about results like against Rotherham.

Edited April 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Ian 1,136]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There you go then. The league table lies.

Sample size dear boy.

Had we beaten man city 3-1 in our first game in the Prem what would the table had looked like?

All I am saying is that 90% of the way through the season it paints a much more convincing picture.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

0

14 minutes ago, Ian said:

Sample size dear boy.

Had we beaten man city 3-1 in our first game in the Prem what would the table had looked like?

All I am saying is that 90% of the way through the season it paints a much more convincing picture.

The sample size was well over quarter of a season when we were sitting in the top two this season.

Edited April 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Harry53 211]

I would rather we made the play offs, but fail to go up. That way we achieved something,  but would not be the laughing stock in the PL due to fluking promotion. 

[aBee 152]

The xG table is a bit weird this season. WBA are top. https://experimental361.com/2023/04/06/expected-goals-table-championship-1-apr-2023/

[BroadstairsR 2,206]

7 hours ago, Harry53 said:

I would rather we made the play offs, but fail to go up. That way we achieved something,  but would not be the laughing stock in the PL due to fluking promotion. 

Will you go to the game you want us to lose?

Will you be cheering on the opposition?

'On the ball, Luton.'

'On the ball, Middlesboro.'

Bah! We've scored a goal.

[Foxy2600 305]

On 10/04/2023 at 23:40, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

If we went up we would be cementing the claim that we are wasting a place in the Prem. Let Millwall or Preston - or especially Luton, have their time in the Big Boys' League. Let them realise that it isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Like Brentford

[BroadstairsR 2,206]

Well, I for one, am fearing another season in the Championship as much as some seem to be scared stiff of the team being pitted against the might of the Premier League.

Of course it might be down to Annatasio with regards investment, but otherwise it seem squite credible to assume that the rather rapid decline in the club's fortunes over the past tweelve months might well continue should there not be sufficient funds to be competitive. This would likely lead to our better and younger performers such as Sara and Omo, along with Aarons jumping ship and us being reliant upon raw youth and cheapies from here there and anywhere.

Decline come quickly in football ask the supporters of Derby, Sunderland and others. 

Also, with ITFC finally on the up I am fearful of the so-called cyclical effect being seen to prevail in East Anglian football.

Humiliation in the Premier League? So what? Losing to the binners at Carrow Road would be far, far more humiliating in my book. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Deptford Yellow 260]

Always got to want to over-achieve…

Is this team really any worse than the Worthington outfit that sneaked into sixth and took us  within 10 minutes of promotion at the Millenium stadium … ? It’s gotta be a rebuild for next season and I’d take my chances on this in the Prem … might be time for Webbers roulette wheel to get lucky again on the signing front… As Broadstairs flags up - the risk of downward momentum is not to be under-estimated …

Bravo win or die City !

[Capt. Pants 4,283]

There's a difference between going up and stinking the place out because you don't have a plan, or a style of play than giving it your best, playing good football and at least being competitive.

Unfortunately some on here wouldn't think Forest a laughing stock if relegated in view of them spending £200m. 

I think they're hilarious and hope they go down.

 

[lake district canary 4,546]

9 hours ago, aBee said:

The xG table is a bit weird this season. WBA are top. https://experimental361.com/2023/04/06/expected-goals-table-championship-1-apr-2023/

xG shows something different to reality shocker.......

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

9 hours ago, aBee said:

The xG table is a bit weird this season. WBA are top. https://experimental361.com/2023/04/06/expected-goals-table-championship-1-apr-2023/

West Brom's players are collectively spectacularly bad at shooting?

[Barham Blitz 664]

If you take out the 3 promoted teams from last season's championship (one of which has all but secured Premiership survival this season, with the other two at least in with a fighting chance with 8 games to go)  the league table looks remarkably similar this season with the exception of Huddersfield who have imploded for various (explicable) reasons.  The 3 teams that were below the playoffs are now in it, with Huddersfield replaced by relegated Burnley at the top.

So the main difference is that two of the three relegated teams - ourselves and Watford - haven't outperformed the existing playoff contending championship sides.

Now, i would agree that based on the evidence of this season, much of the division is pretty ordinary, but to complain that the likes of Luton and Millwall aren't up there on merit denies the evidence of last season.  There is certainly an argument that with parachute payments the relegated clubs should be in a stronger position than Championship sides, but as we are seeing, parachute payments are actually (as designed, shock horror !) required to deal with the financial consequences of relegation, not just to outspend the rest of the division (with the caveat that we appear to have the highest net spend in the division this season with limited sales and Sara and Nunez arriving) - both Watford and Burnley have operated at a significant transfer profit this season.

 Both us and Watford were pretty abject last season and a long way adrift of the rest and there is certainly an argument that our positions reflect more or less accurately both where we are both in terms of performances and squad strength.  Which is an indictment in itself given that they sold roughly €60m worth of players and bought €20m whereas we sold roughly €4m and bought €14m - we have / had loaned out two of our larger Premiership expenses in Rashica and Tzolis, but at best selling them at the moment would more or less break even for the season.  Last season's transfer dealings, the sacking of Farke and Dean Smith's directionless football have cost us so much, particularly when you look at how Burnley have rebuilt with a net profit of €35m and a totally new playing style.

Two promotion seasons have spoilt us into assuming that the Championship is a cake walk.  It isn't.  I hope we get into the playoffs and send Teemu off with a playoff winners medal (whilst remaining entirely apprehensive about next season if we do.) 

For what it's worth, I think this season was always going to be a transitional one given the age / contract status of a number of recent stalwarts and the fact that we would need to start planning for a Pukki-less future (even without the contract situation, he can't go on forever) which will almost by necessity involve an adaptation of the playing style.  Although given how ineffective it has been without Emi this may not necessarily be a bad thing. 

I do still think we'll squeak the playoffs and after that who knows.  But either way, a time of change at CR - part of the joy of being a City fan.  Buckle up and enjoy the ride.  Whoever gets promoted will have deserved it over the course of a long and tough season, be it us or any of the other contenders.  But to deride the likes of Luton or Millwall as not being worthy of a playoff spot and / or promotion is to adopt an elitist attitude somewhat similar to that directed at us in the Premiership but with considerably less justification. 

[mrD66M 102]

On 10/04/2023 at 21:52, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We didn't actually spend much at all by modern Premier League standards, so yes, quite a few have done.

Nottingham Forest may still go down...

[ged in the onion bag 857]

On 12/04/2023 at 11:21, Barham Blitz said:

If you take out the 3 promoted teams from last season's championship (one of which has all but secured Premiership survival this season, with the other two at least in with a fighting chance with 8 games to go)  the league table looks remarkably similar this season with the exception of Huddersfield who have imploded for various (explicable) reasons.  The 3 teams that were below the playoffs are now in it, with Huddersfield replaced by relegated Burnley at the top.

So the main difference is that two of the three relegated teams - ourselves and Watford - haven't outperformed the existing playoff contending championship sides.

Now, i would agree that based on the evidence of this season, much of the division is pretty ordinary, but to complain that the likes of Luton and Millwall aren't up there on merit denies the evidence of last season.  There is certainly an argument that with parachute payments the relegated clubs should be in a stronger position than Championship sides, but as we are seeing, parachute payments are actually (as designed, shock horror !) required to deal with the financial consequences of relegation, not just to outspend the rest of the division (with the caveat that we appear to have the highest net spend in the division this season with limited sales and Sara and Nunez arriving) - both Watford and Burnley have operated at a significant transfer profit this season.

 Both us and Watford were pretty abject last season and a long way adrift of the rest and there is certainly an argument that our positions reflect more or less accurately both where we are both in terms of performances and squad strength.  Which is an indictment in itself given that they sold roughly €60m worth of players and bought €20m whereas we sold roughly €4m and bought €14m - we have / had loaned out two of our larger Premiership expenses in Rashica and Tzolis, but at best selling them at the moment would more or less break even for the season.  Last season's transfer dealings, the sacking of Farke and Dean Smith's directionless football have cost us so much, particularly when you look at how Burnley have rebuilt with a net profit of €35m and a totally new playing style.

Two promotion seasons have spoilt us into assuming that the Championship is a cake walk.  It isn't.  I hope we get into the playoffs and send Teemu off with a playoff winners medal (whilst remaining entirely apprehensive about next season if we do.) 

For what it's worth, I think this season was always going to be a transitional one given the age / contract status of a number of recent stalwarts and the fact that we would need to start planning for a Pukki-less future (even without the contract situation, he can't go on forever) which will almost by necessity involve an adaptation of the playing style.  Although given how ineffective it has been without Emi this may not necessarily be a bad thing. 

I do still think we'll squeak the playoffs and after that who knows.  But either way, a time of change at CR - part of the joy of being a City fan.  Buckle up and enjoy the ride.  Whoever gets promoted will have deserved it over the course of a long and tough season, be it us or any of the other contenders.  But to deride the likes of Luton or Millwall as not being worthy of a playoff spot and / or promotion is to adopt an elitist attitude somewhat similar to that directed at us in the Premiership but with considerably less justification. 

Some very good observations here.   Agree with much of it, but would suggest this should have been a transitional season, instead it’s been wasted.    We haven’t transitioned at all since we’ve not developed players or a playing philosophy that’s suits a team going forward.    We’ve held back Omobamidele, Gibbs, McCallum, Tzolis, Idah and even Sargent since we won’t play them in natural positions.    Instead it’s been same old, same old….with  Hanley, Gibson, McLean and Pukki (who we pretty much knew would be leaving) remaining as the spine, plus unnecessary loan players and none are good enough.     All because we were desperate to achieve an unsustainable promotion at the expense of developing the team again.
 

I do wonder what will happen if we do get promoted…..  we won’t have a competitive team, that’s for sure and Webber will have an impossible task to make us competitive since we have literally nothing capable in this squad… (Aaron’s and Gunn at best).     How will fans react to Webber when he fails to bridge the gap as he inevitably will?

While we chase the cash, we won’t transition at all.   

[Barham Blitz 664]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Agree with much of it, but would suggest this should have been a transitional season, instead it’s been wasted.    We haven’t transitioned at all since we’ve not developed players or a playing philosophy that’s suits a team going forward.    We’ve held back Omobamidele, Gibbs, McCallum, Tzolis, Idah and even Sargent since we won’t play them in natural positions.    Instead it’s been same old, same old….with  Hanley, Gibson, McLean and Pukki (who we pretty much knew would be leaving) remaining as the spine, plus unnecessary loan players and none are good enough.     All because we were desperate to achieve an unsustainable promotion at the expense of developing the team again.
 

I do wonder what will happen if we do get promoted…..  we won’t have a competitive team, that’s for sure and Webber will have an impossible task to make us competitive since we have literally nothing capable in this squad… (Aaron’s and Gunn at best).     How will fans react to Webber when he fails to bridge the gap as he inevitably will?

While we chase the cash, we won’t transition at all.   

Bang on.  Agree with all of that, particularly the last sentence.  But it is that chicken and egg thing of it's easier to transition with "just one more year" of premiership swag but chasing it means that we don't transition (and not achieving it means that we can't.)  It is criminal that we appear to have ended up with both no money and a worse team than we had two years ago as a result of Webber betting the farm or chasing the dream or whatever you want to call it and losing.  It is definitely time for a reset - there is no other option.

I do think that Pukki moving on forces the hand a little bit - if only because (perversely) the loss of arguably our best player does free us up tactically a little bit.  If we did somehow get promoted, I hope that (as Robert N. LiM has suggested) Webber comes out and honestly states that whilst we will try to stay up we are approaching next season as a bit of a free hit and a transitional period for the sake of the future stability of the club - rather than sending Wagner "to war" with another misplaced military metaphor that won't bear up to scrutiny ...

 

[TheGunnShow 6,017]

Is Omo really being held back that much? Bear in mind he had a bad back injury, going flat-out this season might have been a bit much. Not to mention Wagner made him captain last time out. Clearly rates Omo if he's doing that.

[nutty nigel 7,642]

It always appears to me that how we transition is really governed by when contracts end.

So in effect plans are already in place for this summer but with two different scenarios. Parachute payments and contracts dictate this 

Edited April 13, 2023 by nutty nigel

[shefcanary 2,465]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It always appears to me that how we transition is really governed by when contracts end.

Profound Nutty, you could be on to something there. But, careful, better not criticise the people who negotiate the contracts on the club's behalf. 😉 

[nutty nigel 7,642]

8 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Profound Nutty, you could be on to something there. But, careful, better not criticise the people who negotiate the contracts on the club's behalf. 😉 

I'm sure that contracts ending this summer was part of such a plan.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by nutty nigel

[nutty nigel 7,642]

Two profound thoughts for today...

Marky Mark invested 10m in full knowledge of the plans made moving forward.

Armed with that knowledge he has since bought more shares and has a place on the board.