The TNC boys interview the Attanasios

[corbs 147]

Generally positive, if cautious and tempered. I’m pleased the owners have gone down this route. The most interesting aspect for me was the references to analytics, not my strong point, which I linked to the possibility of a newer approach on the recruitment side. Also liked their ‘punch above our weight’ experience at the brewer’s . 

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

On 14/11/2022 at 00:18, nutty nigel said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0dfrv3t 

Does this count as engagement?

Or disconnect?

 

 

 

Hopefully shoots of recovery but more than likely just something to distract us from the sinking ship for a while.

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

10 hours ago, WD40 said:

Ended up listening and enjoying it tbh. I actually think the most important player from our perspective is the son Mike Attanasio. He said he was the one that found the TNC boys online and showed his dad. He’s the one plugged in to what the fans are saying (“I hear you, I get it” he said). He’s leading on fan engagement from the Attanasio perspective. And it’s clearly a family affair with that lot, he trusts his boys and comes across as a really smart switched on fella. 
 

I have no doubt if we continue to make noise on here and elsewhere (on other media/fan channels) about the state of the club, he will hear about it and take notice.

Delia & MWJ involving Tom = Bad, we don't want nepotism.

MA involving sons = Good, clearly a family affair.

😀

[Danke bitte 965]

10 hours ago, corbs said:

Generally positive, if cautious and tempered. I’m pleased the owners have gone down this route. The most interesting aspect for me was the references to analytics, not my strong point, which I linked to the possibility of a newer approach on the recruitment side. Also liked their ‘punch above our weight’ experience at the brewer’s . 

This could be because of The Oakland Athletics fairytale in the early 00s. And baseball after that adopted a heavily analytic focus. I can imagine Attanasio’s will push for a better data focused recruitment team should we get back to the Prem as our Prem recruitment as we all know has caused our downfall the last two times we’ve been there. 

Generally I feel excited by Attanasio’s arrival. We need positive reinforcement and a drive from the top. Not this glib “we’re happy to be here” attitude we seem to adopt when we always get promoted. 

[Danke bitte 965]

40 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Delia & MWJ involving Tom = Bad, we don't want nepotism.

MA involving sons = Good, clearly a family affair.

😀

Playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly I know little about Tom Smith, but it might be that poster feels MA involving his sons will push for a more positive approach rather than the current one we have. I’m pretty sure Tom Smith has done a good job with community programs but again I know little about his business acumen bar that failed Galway Roast deal. 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

27 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

Playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly I know little about Tom Smith, but it might be that poster feels MA involving his sons will push for a more positive approach rather than the current one we have. I’m pretty sure Tom Smith has done a good job with community programs but again I know little about his business acumen bar that failed Galway Roast deal. 

Nice to see the Galway Roast debacle rolling on...

😂😂😂😂

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

28 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

This could be because of The Oakland Athletics fairytale in the early 00s. And baseball after that adopted a heavily analytic focus. I can imagine Attanasio’s will push for a better data focused recruitment team should we get back to the Prem as our Prem recruitment as we all know has caused our downfall the last two times we’ve been there. 

Generally I feel excited by Attanasio’s arrival. We need positive reinforcement and a drive from the top. Not this glib “we’re happy to be here” attitude we seem to adopt when we always get promoted. 

Interesting that they specifically mentioned their analytics templates and team at the Brewers as being one area where Stuart Webber wanted to tap into their expertise and get them actively involved.

Also interesting to note that the first football club in the UK to fully embrace the 'Moneyball' philosophy was Brentford under Matthew Benham... and who spent three years implementing that philosophy on the pitch? Dean Smith.

I think it's likely that unless results fall off a cliff and we end up in the bottom half, they'll do everything they can to keep hold of our Deano. There may well be at least a season of transition before we see ourselves back on an upward curve. My guess would be that when they talk about 'patience' towards the end of the video, that's basically shorthand for 'we're going to stick with this manager and see if we can give him extra weapons and expertise to help him'.

 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

56 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

Playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly I know little about Tom Smith, but it might be that poster feels MA involving his sons will push for a more positive approach rather than the current one we have. I’m pretty sure Tom Smith has done a good job with community programs but again I know little about his business acumen bar that failed Galway Roast deal. 

Galway Roast still available in lidl Ireland at €4-99 for 250g.... Still not buying it though.

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

1 hour ago, Danke bitte said:

Playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly I know little about Tom Smith, but it might be that poster feels MA involving his sons will push for a more positive approach rather than the current one we have. I’m pretty sure Tom Smith has done a good job with community programs but again I know little about his business acumen bar that failed Galway Roast deal. 

His involvement in the Galway Roast thing was made up by a poster on here.

 

[WD40 720]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Delia & MWJ involving Tom = Bad, we don't want nepotism.

MA involving sons = Good, clearly a family affair.

😀

I haven’t made that point about ‘Nephew Tom’, posters on here aren’t a monolith. By being around the boardroom as long as he has, seen some ups and downs, Tom I’m sure has gained a lot of experience.

My point was more about fan engagement and Mike Attanasio quite clearly having his ear to the ground on what real fans are saying on social media. If he watches the TNC boys he’ll know the criticism of Mr Ego, Deano, D&M. That will naturally filter up to his father.

I don’t know if there’s any evidence Tom has ever done that?

[Google Bot 3,277]

Certainly a lift watching that.  I feel much better about the club, and even Smith in charge. 

I just wish we were doing it consistently on the field.  That boro defeat really was a kick in the nuts.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Delia & MWJ involving Tom = Bad, we don't want nepotism.

MA involving sons = Good, clearly a family affair.

😀

I think the worry with Tom is that he doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Loved the interview and fair play to the boys for getting it done, although it sounded as though it was at least in part due to the Attansios familiarity with them and their content over lockdown (the Reading watchalong being specifically mentioned) that made the interview possible. Would be interesting to know whether the club arranged it or whether it was prompted by the new shareholders directly...

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

14 hours ago, WD40 said:

I have no doubt if we continue to make noise on here and elsewhere (on other media/fan channels) about the state of the club, he will hear about it and take notice.

If he listened to the noise on here and social media then he wouldn't be here in the first place.

He was very clear in the interview that he thinks we're a well-run club, and he's absolutely right on that score; he's bringing knowledge sharing on analytics and potentially more financial muscle to the table as a complement to what's already in place.

[Badger 2,405]

16 hours ago, WD40 said:

He’s not faced any independent journalist to probe and challenge.

My recollection is that last time he did that in the Henry Winter interview (?) he landed himself in a whole heap of trouble! Keeping his mouth shut may be considered by some to be a sensible strategy.

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

If he listened to the noise on here and social media then he wouldn't be here in the first place.

He was very clear in the interview that he thinks we're a well-run club, and he's absolutely right on that score; he's bringing knowledge sharing on analytics and potentially more financial muscle to the table as a complement to what's already in place.

The fact he appeared on this podcast would imply that he's absolutely tuned into the fans on social media. He's hardly gotten his feet under the table so he's obviously not going to say anything that would rock the boat.

Overall he seems a good addition to the club though, one that should help enhance and expand on the positive sides of the Webber reign. Other than seeing a bit of the man's personality I don't think we actually learned anything from the interview though.

 

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another about the TNC boys. I watch their occasional video if they get someone interesting on but I'm not a subscriber. I think that was definitely one of their better chats and they are improving over time but for the love of god if either of them are reading this LET THE GUESTS TALK AND STOP INTERRUPTING THEM! If you have other fans or someone else on by all means interject with personal anecdotes but when you get an Attanasio or Webber on let them finish what they're saying and give them time to answer the question before moving on. Another little tip would be you don't have to constantly reaffirm what the guest is saying with 'yeah' 'hmmm' 'wow' 'right' or 'okay' every 5 seconds.

Stuart Hodge does similar and to be honest he's probably the worst journalist about for doing that, I like him but it really grinds on me. 

Overall though I enjoyed it and think they did really well to get them on their show. 

[shefcanary 2,408]

Just now, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another about the TNC boys. I watch their occasional video if they get someone interesting on but I'm not a subscriber. I think that was definitely one of their better chats and they are improving over time but for the love of god if either of them are reading this LET THE GUESTS TALK AND STOP INTERRUPTING THEM! If you have other fans or someone else on by all means interject with personal anecdotes but when you get an Attanasio or Webber on let them finish what they're saying and give them time to answer the question before moving on. Another little tip would be you don't have to constantly reaffirm what the guest is saying with 'yeah' 'hmmm' 'wow' 'right' or 'okay' every 5 seconds.

Stuart Hodge does similar and to be honest he's probably the worst journalist about for doing that, I like him but it really grinds on me. 

Overall though I enjoyed it and think they did really well to get them on their show. 

Have you watched Newsnight lately? There is a balance between stopping interviewees spout biased non-factual **** and actually let them finish the sentence or the point they are trying to make. At least in this interview everyone was in the same room. on Newsnight it is invariably over Zoom or whatever and makes for excruciating watching, but it is the only current affairs programme which does bury that bit deeper into the subject at hand. I thought the Reeves got it just about right in comparison, anymore talk from the Attanasio's and the platitudes would have increased.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

It does seem he's setting off on the wrong foot with the fans. But he probably thinks fans share his family and community values. He's well proud of 'little ol' Brewers' punching above their weight. He has a rude awakening when he realises those values are not shared and 'little ol' Norwich' is nothing to be proud of.

I give him 6 months before we want him out...

😡

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Interesting that they specifically mentioned their analytics templates and team at the Brewers as being one area where Stuart Webber wanted to tap into their expertise and get them actively involved.

Also interesting to note that the first football club in the UK to fully embrace the 'Moneyball' philosophy was Brentford under Matthew Benham... and who spent three years implementing that philosophy on the pitch? Dean Smith.

I think it's likely that unless results fall off a cliff and we end up in the bottom half, they'll do everything they can to keep hold of our Deano. There may well be at least a season of transition before we see ourselves back on an upward curve. My guess would be that when they talk about 'patience' towards the end of the video, that's basically shorthand for 'we're going to stick with this manager and see if we can give him extra weapons and expertise to help him'.

 

Both Matthew Benham(Brentford) and Tony Bloom(Brighton) became multi-millionaires with the mathematical modelling of football games, and then using that data to beat the bookies. Given how advanced and evolved the market is in the UK now, I struggle to see anyone from the US being able to add much though.

https://theathletic.com/3029279/2021/12/24/cold-war-brighton-tony-bloom-matthew-benham-brentford/

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

5 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Both Matthew Benham(Brentford) and Tony Bloom(Brighton) became multi-millionaires with the mathematical modelling of football games, and then using that data to beat the bookies. Given how advanced and evolved the market is in the UK now, I struggle to see anyone from the US being able to add much though.

https://theathletic.com/3029279/2021/12/24/cold-war-brighton-tony-bloom-matthew-benham-brentford/

Thanks for that – the link is behind a paywall, though, so I can't read it.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Having read "Moneyball" it seems to me Baseball is the perfect sport to apply a stats-driven approach, with a limited number of variables and all focused around a repeat of the duel between the pitcher and the batter, plus 160 odd games per season to allow plenty of time for luck/random fluctuations to be ironed out.  Football IMO is at the other end of the spectrum, with an enormous number of variables and a very fluid pattern of play, scoring is rare* and there are a relatively small number of games making up a season, so luck/random fluctuations can make all the difference between success and failure of an entire season.

 

*insert Hughton joke here.

 

We'll see but I'm not convinced this is going to be the answer to all our hopes. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

The fact he appeared on this podcast would imply that he's absolutely tuned into the fans on social media. He's hardly gotten his feet under the table so he's obviously not going to say anything that would rock the boat.

Overall he seems a good addition to the club though, one that should help enhance and expand on the positive sides of the Webber reign. Other than seeing a bit of the man's personality I don't think we actually learned anything from the interview though.

 

 

He's engaged in reaching out with a positive message to fans about the fundamentals of the club established by Webber, Smith and co and what he's looking to add to it to make it a Premier League club.

Norwich is a club with a private shareholding and majority shareholders who go nowhere without their consent. Frankly, if he has secret doubts about the club and wants to turn it upside down then he has made a terrible investment choice totally inconsistent with his past record. As such, this is why I think his comments can be taken at face value as honest opinions and intentions.

Edited November 15, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

15 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Having read "Moneyball" it seems to me Baseball is the perfect sport to apply a stats-driven approach, with a limited number of variables and all focused around a repeat of the duel between the pitcher and the batter, plus 160 odd games per season to allow plenty of time for luck/random fluctuations to be ironed out.  Football IMO is at the other end of the spectrum, with an enormous number of variables and a very fluid pattern of play, scoring is rare* and there are a relatively small number of games making up a season, so luck/random fluctuations can make all the difference between success and failure of an entire season.

 

*insert Hughton joke here.

 

We'll see but I'm not convinced this is going to be the answer to all our hopes. 

I'm sure you know at least the basics but you should do a deep dive on how Brentford are doing things. I think it's becoming more and more clear that their success is not an anomaly. 

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He's engaged in reaching out with a positive message to fans about the fundamentals of the club established by Webber, Smith and co and what he's looking to add to it to make it a Premier League club.

Norwich is a club with a private shareholding and majority shareholders who go nowhere without their consent. Frankly, if he has secret doubts about the club and wants to turn it upside down then he has made a terrible investment choice. As such, this is why I think his comments can be taken at face value as honest opinions and intentions.

It was a nice interview although a little too 'soppy' at times for my liking. 

I hope there's a harder edge to him, and I think there needs to be, if he's going to have a successful business as a English football club owner.

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

10 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

It was a nice interview although a little too 'soppy' at times for my liking. 

I hope there's a harder edge to him, and I think there needs to be, if he's going to have a successful business as a English football club owner.

What part of his background leads you to believe that he doesn't posses the skills to be successful?

His work with Crescent Capitol and the Brewers is a pretty good CV.

[repman 635]

35 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Having read "Moneyball" it seems to me Baseball is the perfect sport to apply a stats-driven approach, with a limited number of variables and all focused around a repeat of the duel between the pitcher and the batter, plus 160 odd games per season to allow plenty of time for luck/random fluctuations to be ironed out.  Football IMO is at the other end of the spectrum, with an enormous number of variables and a very fluid pattern of play, scoring is rare* and there are a relatively small number of games making up a season, so luck/random fluctuations can make all the difference between success and failure of an entire season.

 

*insert Hughton joke here.

 

We'll see but I'm not convinced this is going to be the answer to all our hopes. 

I think it's important to say that Moneyball follows a baseball team through the 2002 season. If you think of how technology has come on since then it's not hard to imagine that we might be better at modelling more complex sports nowadays. The main 'stat' used in Moneyball, the on-base percentage, can be calculated all back to 1871 due to it's simplicity. While football is very complicated and fluid compared to baseball, it can in essence be bottled down to a game of shots. That's where xG comes from, it's rudimentary but it's certainly something. As Attanasio said in the video, there's a bit of an arms race in football analytics right now, there's so much to learn that right now there's a chance to get ahead, then remaining ahead becomes the next challenge.

[shefcanary 2,408]

Given that so many people on here and elsewhere on social media complain that they can see what is going wrong on the pitch, or that certain substitutions are just plain dumb, that Smith and his team are buried too deep in Moneyball Analytics and a bit of plain old-fashioned coaching with stamina training up Mousehold and to satisfy me as an old git, some individual shouting at players, wouldn't go amiss. How long do we have to wait for Moneyball Analytics to pay dividends?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

23 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

What part of his background leads you to believe that he doesn't posses the skills to be successful?

His work with Crescent Capitol and the Brewers is a pretty good CV.

Absolutely, and his decision to become involved and get his feet under the table and invest is a vote of confidence in structures and processes already in place at the club from which to build on, underlining what everybody outside of the Norwich fan base knows, which is that we're a well-run club lacking in financial muscle.

[Google Bot 3,277]

12 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

a bit of plain old-fashioned coaching with stamina training up Mousehold and to satisfy me as an old git, some individual shouting at players, wouldn't go amiss.

So we're all in agreement to bring Lambert back? 🙂

[shefcanary 2,408]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

So we're all in agreement to bring Lambert back? 🙂

if it's the current version, I wouldn't go that far! 🙂