daly 507 Posted November 3, 2022 What a difference Max made to our attacking options when he came on for the last few minutes Byram is completely lost going forward How Smith prefers him to Max is unbelievable Negitive is an understatement 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted November 3, 2022 Aarons did well when he came on last night, but then he was essentially playing a team that had decided to stop attacking and protect the point, so it's easy for a defender to look dangerous in that context. Overall this season I think Byram has looked the better of the two at right-back to be honest with you, it's a rare Smith selection that I actually understand and agree with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus_Canary 1,024 Posted November 3, 2022 Max is by far the better of the two Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 5,993 Posted November 3, 2022 Max is the better going forwards, Byram is better at helping keep defensive shape. There's an argument that Byram's the defensive full-back and it frees up the other one, either McCallum or Giannoulis, to bomb forward much more frequently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,736 Posted November 3, 2022 Byram stops us losing headers from wingers or full backs running into the near / far post. Which is pretty important. But yes, going forwards Max is considerably better. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 274 Posted November 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, hogesar said: Byram stops us losing headers from wingers or full backs running into the near / far post. Which is pretty important. I have no doubt that aerial prowess is key to smiths preference, which is why i think mccallum will remain ahead of Dimi at left back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,339 Posted November 3, 2022 I get that Byram is a more reliable defensive option. But I have to say that with a team so devoid of pace in wide areas as we are, the ability for the full backs to beat their man is key and for that reason i think we need to put Max back in there. Byram simply does not have the same attacking threat. No coincidence that our best periods were when McCallum was bombing forward in the first half and at the end after max came on. Dowell needs more game time in the middle as well as he is the one who can play the through balls for Pukki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Tea 105 Posted November 3, 2022 The last few games that Max has started he seems to have lost the drive to push on . unsure if told not to or that his choice but he doesn’t look the player he was over the last few seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Number9 272 Posted November 3, 2022 Max doesn't go forward though, does he. His play last season and this has been sideways and backwards. He struggles to defend more often than not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unique 439 Posted November 3, 2022 Maybe the plan should be to play Byram in the first half to give more defensive rigidity and play Aarons in the second half with the brief to offer attacking threat to a potentially tiring defence. Injuries aside, both players know they can fire on every cylinder for a 45 minute spell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,446 Posted November 3, 2022 In hindsight, would it have been better if Max came on to do the Hernandez role? Just thinking aloud? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,514 Posted November 3, 2022 Can I just say how excellent Kenny was when he came on? I now think it's his best position. McCallum was also very good to start with, but QPR seemed to have figured him out by the second half (or perhaps he ran out of steam). Byram had a rather poor game I thought. He was fairly solid but stolid - incapable of starting anything down the left side. That may have been due to the opposition tactics though &/or lack of movement upfront. A 'nearly' game, but you could argue that it's our luck evening out after getting some fortunate results during our unbeaten run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,664 Posted November 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said: I get that Byram is a more reliable defensive option. But I have to say that with a team so devoid of pace in wide areas as we are, the ability for the full backs to beat their man is key and for that reason i think we need to put Max back in there. Byram simply does not have the same attacking threat. No coincidence that our best periods were when McCallum was bombing forward in the first half and at the end after max came on. Dowell needs more game time in the middle as well as he is the one who can play the through balls for Pukki. I only saw the second half yesterday but it was noticeable how little the fullbacks seemed to be getting forward. It seemed tactical more than anything but it left the attacking midfield trio isolated and often having no options and getting dispossessed. I'd argue if we're confident in the Gibbs/Hayden double pivot then that should free up the fullbacks to be more positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,664 Posted November 3, 2022 2 hours ago, hogesar said: Byram stops us losing headers from wingers or full backs running into the near / far post. Which is pretty important. But yes, going forwards Max is considerably better. This is a bit of a tough balance to strike and why I'm still a big advocate for us playing with a back 3. You can include Byram as one of the central three meaning we still have players in there with the ability to progress up the field while being less susceptible to crosses to the far post, free Aarons up to be more attacking and also stop us having to shove square pegs into round holes in attacking midfield in order to create width. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hepphep 175 Posted November 3, 2022 (edited) I think Byram was really good first half and it was good decision to start with him. We had Sara on that side to be the more offensive option and McCallum on other side as more offensive fullback. I think that Sara and Max sort of excludes each other from playing on same wing as they'd eat out each other's attacking options and Sara does not stand out as very good in defensive positioning, therefore not providing Max the required support defensively. Max is more aggressive offensively, but I think his offensive strength is not same that few years back when he was able to get into box more. Now he quite often cuts in earlier which can cause good chances but also takes space out of other forward players and therefore I think he'd likely taken off some of the attacking play we were playing there. In a way, I think he is bit like Hernandez on his attacking endeavors. He has good engine and pace and can create something out of thin air, valuable asset when trying to break the low defensive formation, but on the other hand not on his main strengths in the way we played first half. Edited November 3, 2022 by hepphep Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 4,477 Posted November 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, king canary said: I'd argue if we're confident in the Gibbs/Hayden double pivot then that should free up the fullbacks to be more positive This. We have no other width in the team, so have to get the full backs forward. Max needs to force his way back into the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daisy 138 Posted November 3, 2022 3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said: Max is the better going forwards, Byram is better at helping keep defensive shape. There's an argument that Byram's the defensive full-back and it frees up the other one, either McCallum or Giannoulis, to bomb forward much more frequently. Football doesn't work that way though!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted November 3, 2022 Just play Max Aarons as a right winger, ahead of Byram, until Byram gets injured again. Problem solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repman 635 Posted November 3, 2022 Pretty much all of our full backs look bad going forward (or don't seem to ever get forward) because the only way we try to progress the ball up the pitch is down the sides. I'd love to know how many passes Gibson played out to left back last night, I'd bet 25+. As soon as the full back gets it they open themselves up and see absolutely no passing options, meaning they go back to the CB and we start again. We don't play through teams at all, the only time we found a pass through the middle of QPR was the Gibbs-Dowell-Onel move near the end that we should've scored from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 5,993 Posted November 3, 2022 1 hour ago, daisy said: Football doesn't work that way though!! A defensive full-back and an attacking one was often a very common feature in Italian football, especially in catenaccio. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daisy 138 Posted November 3, 2022 4 hours ago, TheGunnShow said: A defensive full-back and an attacking one was often a very common feature in Italian football, especially in catenaccio. But catenaccio was all about defending?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 5,993 Posted November 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, daisy said: But catenaccio was all about defending?? Catenaccio was the style of defence. IIRC, it translated as "door bolt" and was often played with a sweeper. A problem with some of the earlier versions was that a centre-half was often expected to be a good ball player as well as man-marker so on occasion Italian managers would ask a full-back to do it instead, then the other one would stay close to his centre-half and make it a back three anyway. Best example would be Helenio Herrera's Inter Milan defence with Giacinto Facchetti as an early wing-back on the left, and a much more conservative Tarcisio Burgnich on the right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297 Posted November 3, 2022 (edited) Sadly, Max is another one overrated. He is a good player, but he doesn’t really excel at anything. He’s a modern style attacking full back, but doesn’t score or assist anywhere near enough, does he? His end product is lacking, and doesn’t seem to be improving. Much as his all round play, more worryingly. Defensively, we have improved with Byram. And I don’t think Max offers enough from an attacking perspective, to sacrifice that. Edited November 3, 2022 by Creedence Clearwater Couto 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarybubbles 1,939 Posted November 4, 2022 10 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said: Sadly, Max is another one overrated. He is a good player, but he doesn’t really excel at anything. He’s a modern style attacking full back, but doesn’t score or assist anywhere near enough, does he? His end product is lacking, and doesn’t seem to be improving. Much as his all round play, more worryingly. Defensively, we have improved with Byram. And I don’t think Max offers enough from an attacking perspective, to sacrifice that. I tend to the opposite opinion. Byram has disappointed me so far this season (although I accept he has had to slot into several different positions, while Max hasn't). He's obviously better in the air than Max, but other than that I'm not sure he is any more defensively sound. I agree, though, that Max doesn't seem to be improving, and may actually be regressing. Against that I suggest that a) he is being guided to be less gung-ho than in the past and Max's strength is going forward b) he and Sargent just don't work well together for whatever reason c) we all get stale when we've been in the same job for too long and it might be better for Max if he moves on. He's been a model professional and he owes us nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites