If we can't beat Stoke

[PockthorpePete 331]

Then what hope is there ? In a title chasing season games like this would be seen as 3 points. Not every game, as there are always 'off games', but to get promotion having an off day should be seen as the norm NOT the accepted. Whatever is being done in training needs to stop. By that I mean the soft shoe shuffle approach to marking.  A bad pass and what happens ? Our players gently jog around the pitch, waiting to see who the opposition will pass to. The two or three NOT being marked, that's who.

This bizarre idea that if our players are equidistant to the opposition then we have an equal chance of getting to whoever receives the ball, goes against almost of us learnt about playing the game.  if you allow the opposition time on the ball they will use it. If only to control a difficult pass. Suggestion, take Aarons out before theme starts and point out to him where the touchline is, and where the penalty spot is. As a FB he should mostly be nearer the former. Maybe with this soccerbot thing it has given players the thought that only stuff within 10 yards is important. Any passing beyond that is OK if it heads roughly in the direction of one of our players.

The clubs financial and long term plan is fine. But it does mean that we return to the top flight while we still have parachute payments, and a squad made up of a fair number of PL quality players. At the moment that will fail because at best we look like a team who will hope to finish 6th at the end of the season. With the thought that one game more or less could have us down to 8th. if Smith cannot see what is glaringly obvious then maybe he needs to move on.

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,067]

If we can’t beat Stoke the entertainment on here will be huge. 

[KeiranShikari 1,431]

Then I'd imagine it won't be long before a team lower down the Championship are headhunting Deano from from a beach resort in Portugal.

 

[PockthorpePete 331]

2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

If we can’t beat Stoke the entertainment on here will be huge. 

You may find it difficult to type with one hand occupied.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

3-1 Norwich.

Hold the back page,

[Virtual reality 716]

If we can’t beat Stoke then Smith should be clearing out his desk by Sunday morning. 

[Pyro Pete 1,917]

If anyone is going to put us out of our misery, I'm glad it's a good guy like Alex Neil.

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

Just now, Virtual reality said:

If we can’t beat Stoke then Smith should be clearing out his desk by Sunday morning. 

All depends on the nature of the performance and the reaction of the fans. If the dissent is loud enough then it often forces the board's hand.

[PockthorpePete 331]

6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

All depends on the nature of the performance and the reaction of the fans. If the dissent is loud enough then it often forces the board's hand.

No. the board will stick by Smith irrespective of the fans. It will come through the comments and thoughts of the players. If something is wrong then that will be expressed, as they will be asked. Have no doubt on that score. The board will then need to work out whether Smith can turn things round, whether this is a transitional period or something where the rot has set in.

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

Just now, PockthorpePete said:

No. the board will stick by Smith irrespective of the fans. It will come through the comments and thoughts of the players. If something is wrong then that will be expressed, as they will be asked. Have no doubt on that score. The board will then need to work out whether Smith can turn things round, whether this is a transitional period or something where the rot has set in.

We'll see. Hopefully we'll play well and smash Stoke tomorrow and it'll be a moot point. But if we lose and play badly tomorrow, and the crowd fully turns, I think there's a good chance that we'll roll the dice.

[PockthorpePete 331]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

We'll see. Hopefully we'll play well and smash Stoke tomorrow and it'll be a moot point. But if we lose and play badly tomorrow, and the crowd fully turns, I think there's a good chance that we'll roll the dice.

The crowd matters little. As you say if we win. It is all about what is going on behind the scenes.And there is no certainty that we can simply replace Smith et al and turn things around. We could win after playing as bad as previously. Would the fans 'turn'? Or have a stunning game, tear them apart but lose to a fluke goal. the quality is there. It will be whether that board believes Smith can get us playing well enough to get us back to the PL.

[Petriix 2,853]

1 hour ago, PockthorpePete said:

Suggestion, take Aarons out before theme starts and point out to him where the touchline is, and where the penalty spot is. As a FB he should mostly be nearer the former.

Are you suggesting that he should just leave the runner to move into the box unmarked? 

The only reason Aarons ends up near the penalty spot is because the midfield aren't tracking their men. Sargent is a striker playing on the wing so he doesn't consistently track back. Blaming Aarons for being caught 2 on 1 is naive in the extreme. 

[PockthorpePete 331]

No I am not suggesting, which renders the rest of your post meaningless. Next time reply to what I post. It does help.😀

 

[rock bus 854]

2 hours ago, PockthorpePete said:

 

Suggestion, take Aarons out before theme starts and point out to him where the touchline is, and where the penalty spot is. As a FB he should mostly be nearer the former.

 

Well I for one totally agree with this. It was ridiculous against Burnley how Aaron’s was tucking so far in and leaving the wide player totally unmarked. Happened again and again!

Can’t believe Smith had told him to do this or if he did why after 10 mins of seeing how stupid it was he didn’t stop him.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

The one result that must not happen tomorrow is a draw...

[astro 366]

50 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Well I for one totally agree with this. It was ridiculous against Burnley how Aaron’s was tucking so far in and leaving the wide player totally unmarked. Happened again and again!

Can’t believe Smith had told him to do this or if he did why after 10 mins of seeing how stupid it was he didn’t stop him.

I think this is a hangover from the previous season where he showed people like Zaha the inside and the ball ended up in the back of the net far too often. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

I think the only thing we can all agree on is that whatever happens tomorrow it’s most likely Smith will still have a job next week. Sadly. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

7 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I think the only thing we can all agree on is that whatever happens tomorrow it’s most likely Smith will still have a job next week. Sadly. 

Wouldnt be so sure

A defest equals 1 win in 9...5 defeats in the last 6

The crowd will properly turn. Once it does at carrow rd , a manager doesnt survive

[Well b back 3,275]

19 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I think the only thing we can all agree on is that whatever happens tomorrow it’s most likely Smith will still have a job next week. Sadly. 

So why were you saying you wanted us to lose then ?

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

14 minutes ago, Well b back said:

So why were you saying you wanted us to lose then ?

Because I want him to be gone and that’s the quickest way. I just don’t think the board would see this as the final point. They have a history of dragging out managers until they hit rock bottom first for maximum public dissatisfaction 

[nutty nigel 7,606]

1 minute ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Because I want him to be gone and that’s the quickest way. I just don’t think the board would see this as the final point. They have a history of dragging out managers until they hit rock bottom first for maximum public dissatisfaction 

Let me take the pressure off.

The only manager this board has sacked is Farke. So you may as well want to win tomorrow🙃

[Petriix 2,853]

3 hours ago, PockthorpePete said:

No I am not suggesting, which renders the rest of your post meaningless. Next time reply to what I post. It does help.😀

 

Well you can't have it both ways. Either he tracks the man into the box or he stays out near the touchline.

The problem is in the midfield. 

[Unhinged Canary 375]

I just can't see a time where Dean is going to fit here. I genuinely can't remember a manager that was so divisive from day one. I've just not taken to him at all. I've never liked him as a person or a manager. I've never watched a Dean Smith side and thought 'they're playing some lovely football'. There's just absolutely nothing about him. No playing style and no personality. There's nothing particularly dislikeable about him either, though his pressers do appear to be getting worse.

The problem we're facing now is one we're all very familiar with, and ultimately we all know where it's going. If we lose, the voices of dissent will get a little bit louder and more numerous. If we win the "apologists/clappers/whatever they're known as" will come out and make snarky comments about the other group of posters until the next inevitable defeat. It's just so tiresome and so draining, because again, when things get like this we know what's hoping to happen, it'll just be too late as per usual.

Personally speaking, I just feel in a really weird place with the club. I just don't think we're in a good place. I honestly don't feel any affinity with it at the moment. It's not just Dean Smith either. It's from the top down. Usually after a god-awful relegation season it takes a bit for the bad taste to leave, but then the excitement of a new season and players coming in starts and you go again. It just didn't happen this season. I don't feel like there's any heroes in this squad. Where's the Holt, the Wessi, the Huckerby? I love Teemu, but he just looks like a busted flush now and I wouldn't begrudge him leaving. He doesn't deserve this. I think the last game I watched was Palace last Christmas and I haven't even listened to a minute of commentary or watched a single 'highlight' either, which is something I've never done. I just feel totally apathetic to the whole thing.

Just back to Smith, it just never felt like he was our manager to me. He's always felt like someone just stepping in and doing a job. I don't know if its just the manner in which he arrived. It's really hard to convey what I mean, but I'm sure others feel the same.

I just think things are going to get worse before they get better. Even when we were winning I've heard from people and colleagues that we weren't particularly great and that there just wasn't that real joy in the team that there was before.

Now, I know this is a controversial topic, but I'm going to say it. I hope we lose today. I hope we keep on losing until Dean goes. Otherwise it's just back to death by a thousand cuts. We'll still ultimately have the same result, it'll just take longer. I know there's many who question that mentality and question 'not being a real fan' but it doesn't bother me. I don't go to games and losing costs me nothing. If I went and spent my hard earned money, I'd probably feel differently so I do feel for those that do put into the club.

We all know there's bigger issues at the club, but one step at a time. The only way that things are going to start to look a bit brighter and for there to be a bit more unity around here too is for the immediate problem to be rectified and I think that's got to be Dean going.

Sorry Dean, it's just not working and you'll never be 'our' manager.

Smith out.

[canarybubbles 1,939]

9 hours ago, Petriix said:

Are you suggesting that he should just leave the runner to move into the box unmarked? 

The only reason Aarons ends up near the penalty spot is because the midfield aren't tracking their men. Sargent is a striker playing on the wing so he doesn't consistently track back. Blaming Aarons for being caught 2 on 1 is naive in the extreme. 

The one thing - the only thing - that we generally praised Sargent for in his difficult first season was his effort, his energy and his tracking back. He has been our only player from last year to improve this season, but now even that seems to be in question. It's possible he has been carrying a slight injury, or it's possible that he is being told to stay further up the pitch by Smith, or it's possible that even his puppyish enthusiasm is being sucked out of him by being stuck out on the wing.

 

 

[canarybubbles 1,939]

9 minutes ago, Unhinged Canary said:

I just can't see a time where Dean is going to fit here. I genuinely can't remember a manager that was so divisive from day one. I've just not taken to him at all. I've never liked him as a person or a manager. I've never watched a Dean Smith side and thought 'they're playing some lovely football'. There's just absolutely nothing about him. No playing style and no personality. There's nothing particularly dislikeable about him either, though his pressers do appear to be getting worse.

The problem we're facing now is one we're all very familiar with, and ultimately we all know where it's going. If we lose, the voices of dissent will get a little bit louder and more numerous. If we win the "apologists/clappers/whatever they're known as" will come out and make snarky comments about the other group of posters until the next inevitable defeat. It's just so tiresome and so draining, because again, when things get like this we know what's hoping to happen, it'll just be too late as per usual.

Personally speaking, I just feel in a really weird place with the club. I just don't think we're in a good place. I honestly don't feel any affinity with it at the moment. It's not just Dean Smith either. It's from the top down. Usually after a god-awful relegation season it takes a bit for the bad taste to leave, but then the excitement of a new season and players coming in starts and you go again. It just didn't happen this season. I don't feel like there's any heroes in this squad. Where's the Holt, the Wessi, the Huckerby? I love Teemu, but he just looks like a busted flush now and I wouldn't begrudge him leaving. He doesn't deserve this. I think the last game I watched was Palace last Christmas and I haven't even listened to a minute of commentary or watched a single 'highlight' either, which is something I've never done. I just feel totally apathetic to the whole thing.

Just back to Smith, it just never felt like he was our manager to me. He's always felt like someone just stepping in and doing a job. I don't know if its just the manner in which he arrived. It's really hard to convey what I mean, but I'm sure others feel the same.

I just think things are going to get worse before they get better. Even when we were winning I've heard from people and colleagues that we weren't particularly great and that there just wasn't that real joy in the team that there was before.

Now, I know this is a controversial topic, but I'm going to say it. I hope we lose today. I hope we keep on losing until Dean goes. Otherwise it's just back to death by a thousand cuts. We'll still ultimately have the same result, it'll just take longer. I know there's many who question that mentality and question 'not being a real fan' but it doesn't bother me. I don't go to games and losing costs me nothing. If I went and spent my hard earned money, I'd probably feel differently so I do feel for those that do put into the club.

We all know there's bigger issues at the club, but one step at a time. The only way that things are going to start to look a bit brighter and for there to be a bit more unity around here too is for the immediate problem to be rectified and I think that's got to be Dean going.

Sorry Dean, it's just not working and you'll never be 'our' manager.

Smith out.

 

I understand completely. I live abroad so I'm reliant on finding a stream, but as long as I can do that I will watch the game, and I've managed to see every game this season. It's a sense of duty. But to be honest I don't want to watch them and I don't even get that excited during the game. I just want it to be over. When Burnley got their penalty, two years ago I would have been screaming at my laptop, 'What the f*ck are you doing, Hanley, you f*cking moron!!'. This season I just sat silently, and, when the penalty went in, my reaction was 'Oh well, never mind. Only another ten minutes and I can go to bed.' 

Reading comments online, I know I'm far from alone. I've been strongly anti-Smith for a long time and have been outspoken about it on here. I want him to go as soon as possible, and I've wanted that since the last game of last season. But at the same time I recognise it's not only him. It's the whole hierarchy at the club who give the impression that they would put on gloves before they shook the hand of a fan. And I think this toxic culture begins with Webber, who is now the de facto controller of the club, but won't even deign to speak to the local press and sends his minions out to answer questions about the fans' detachment from the club. Power without responsibility. That never goes well.

I understand Delia and Michael are old and won't have the energy they used to have. But I wish they would take over the reins of the club for one last time, accept Webber's offer to resign, sack Smith, start trying to connect with the fans like they used to, and, most important of all, sort out a good plan for succession. 

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

8 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Let me take the pressure off.

The only manager this board has sacked is Farke. So you may as well want to win tomorrow🙃

It’s a shame really because when Dean Smith talks about how he wants his side to play football I like what he says, the trouble is the way we play and what he says are polar opposite’s 🤷‍♂️

[Michael Starr 520]

Nothing less than a far better performance and a convincing win against Stoke should be accepted. If we fall short again on either performance or result then he must go. I’d want to see a reaction by the home fans.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Michael Starr

[Petriix 2,853]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

The one thing - the only thing - that we generally praised Sargent for in his difficult first season was his effort, his energy and his tracking back. He has been our only player from last year to improve this season, but now even that seems to be in question. It's possible he has been carrying a slight injury, or it's possible that he is being told to stay further up the pitch by Smith, or it's possible that even his puppyish enthusiasm is being sucked out of him by being stuck out on the wing.

 

 

It's a tactical choice to play the wide attackers high. But against Burnley, Cantwell generally dropped a little deeper when out of possession as that's more of his natural game. 

The idea in the 4-3-3 is that the deeper midfielder on each should fill in wherever required, but it's impossible for them to cover the wide areas while also providing the central attacking link and trying to form the second line of the press. 

As far as I am concerned it's an ongoing tactical deficiency. 4-3-3 works when your front 3 are world class attackers who terrify the opposition into staying more defensive. Against us they are happy to be 3 v 3 and have numerical parity higher up the pitch. Then all they need is one player to shake off their man and they have an overload. 

Typically it's Nunez who doesn't (or can't) keep up with a burst of acceleration or pushes forward to press and simply gets passed around. Then we're a man light. Each player picks up one man as we scramble to defend but there's always someone unmarked until Nunez recovers or one of the wide attackers sprints back in support. 

Cantwell typically starts from deeper so it's easier for him to step back into the defensive line while Sargent is more likely to be pressing right up to the opposition box. That's why the holes are more consistently appearing in the right back area. Aarons is left 2 on 1 pretty often. 

It's not really a criticism of Sargent. It's more a function of the system. It would be fairly trivial to fix just by switching to a dedicated double pivot in midfield and pulling the wide attackers a bit deeper while pushing a central number 10 up to support the attack. Funnily enough that's the system which won us two titles. 

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

37 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

Nothing less than a far better performance and a convincing win against Stoke should be accepted. If we fall short again on either performance or result then he must go. I’d want to see a reaction by the home fans.

I'd want to see the home fans get behind the team big time. 

Things will take care of themselves otherwise.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

I always want to see us win every game as City results used to affect my weekend mood...and midweek games results included....

Now?....Win, lose or draw...the game's forgotten about after the fifth pint....