Sliding so far back

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

When Farke was doing his magic it felt like a new era. Attacking attractive football, the sense of a set style of play. We were told the DoF ensured that losing a manager would not lead to the end of the system allowing for smooth transition. What happened to all that?

We sack the progressive European manager, hire an old school English manager in desperation and his style is totally at odds with what we were building.

Now - just a few months later - and we look very ordinary indeed. players deemed not good enough (Sinani, Onel) 18 months ago return and  look far better than the hollowed out players who got us sunk. Our stars who were heading for huge moves are suddenly unwanted and losing value. Our main striker is grabbing at crumbs and doesn’t suit the style being played, he is tired after a long season but no help was purchased to support him. 

It’s amazing how far we seem to have slid in a year. Fingers crossed this was a blip and the new faces bed in quick- because on this performance we will end up closed to L1 than the Prem 
 

 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,361]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

When Farke was doing his magic it felt like a new era. Attacking attractive football, the sense of a set style of play. We were told the DoF ensured that losing a manager would not lead to the end of the system allowing for smooth transition. What happened to all that?

We sack the progressive European manager, hire an old school English manager in desperation and his style is totally at odds with what we were building.

Now - just a few months later - and we look very ordinary indeed. players deemed not good enough (Sinani, Onel) 18 months ago return and  look far better than the hollowed out players who got us sunk. Our stars who were heading for huge moves are suddenly unwanted and losing value. Our main striker is grabbing at crumbs and doesn’t suit the style being played, he is tired after a long season but no help was purchased to support him. 

It’s amazing how far we seem to have slid in a year. Fingers crossed this was a blip and the new faces bed in quick- because on this performance we will end up closed to L1 than the Prem 
 

 

It's because the person we got in for that role is the equivalent of footballing Del Boy. 

[Cantiaci Canary 558]

Let's see what the new midfield - Sara, Hayden & Nunez will bring.

Add Dowell into the mix and we should have more creativity in the future.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

Just now, GodlyOtsemobor said:

It's because the person we got in for that role is the equivalent of footballing Del Boy. 

Yes indeed. That’s really my point - how on earth did he fit the model? May as well have gone for Steve Bruce! 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

1 minute ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Let's see what the new midfield - Sara, Hayden & Nunez will bring.

Add Dowell into the mix and we should have more creativity in the future.

When can we see that? One isn’t signed and the other two are crocked and will need time to bed in.

[priceyrice 123]

Can't argue with any of this. What annoys me the most is that we've had an opportunity over the past 2 seasons to spend more money on our squad than ever before, but we've still managed to make it weaker while having to try and rely on previous rejects who are now back from loans. 

Our squads over the past 5 seasons had players who had some value. We've virtually sold all of them and now just left with Aarons (whose stock has also fallen considerably) and Omo. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by priceyrice

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

I've said this since he was hired.

He was always a step backwards now he's proving it.

Smith out 

[Cornwall Canaryfan 16]

The DCboots post is depressing.

Doubly so because I can't find major fault with the comments.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,361]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes indeed. That’s really my point - how on earth did he fit the model? May as well have gone for Steve Bruce! 

I meant Webber to be fair 🤣 although must admit my confidence in sas has gone. 

[hogesar 9,722]

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

When Farke was doing his magic it felt like a new era. Attacking attractive football, the sense of a set style of play. We were told the DoF ensured that losing a manager would not lead to the end of the system allowing for smooth transition. What happened to all that?

We sack the progressive European manager, hire an old school English manager in desperation and his style is totally at odds with what we were building.

Now - just a few months later - and we look very ordinary indeed. players deemed not good enough (Sinani, Onel) 18 months ago return and  look far better than the hollowed out players who got us sunk. Our stars who were heading for huge moves are suddenly unwanted and losing value. Our main striker is grabbing at crumbs and doesn’t suit the style being played, he is tired after a long season but no help was purchased to support him. 

It’s amazing how far we seem to have slid in a year. Fingers crossed this was a blip and the new faces bed in quick- because on this performance we will end up closed to L1 than the Prem 
 

 

Hahahhaa should we go back and look at what you said about Farke and his football the same time 2 seasons ago? That title win where you were bemoaning Farke and his style after only a few games in?

[canarybubbles 1,937]

Webber, I think, has still been a big positive for the club overall. But as we sink down and down, the credit gets less. Webber must be desperate that this clutch of new signings works out, or otherwise his credit has almost gone, certainly at the footballing level.

Smith has no credit at all - he has done zero for the club, absolute zero. 

[canarybubbles 1,937]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hahahhaa should we go back and look at what you said about Farke and his football the same time 2 seasons ago? That title win where you were bemoaning Farke and his style after only a few games in?

You always do this, Hogesar, and it's not really fair, and, more importantly, not relevant.

OK, so maybe DCB did criticise Farke two years ago. What has that got to do with whether Dean Smith is up to the job now? He may be, he may not be, but what any of us thought about Farke in his first season or two seasons ago is neither here nor there. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

Hoggy struggles to debate fairly and so he tries to discredit me instead. It’s an old political tactic of playing the man not the ball - throwing out crap in the hope some sticks. It’s easier than actually listening and debating politely 

[Monty13 2,241]

22 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

When Farke was doing his magic it felt like a new era. Attacking attractive football, the sense of a set style of play. We were told the DoF ensured that losing a manager would not lead to the end of the system allowing for smooth transition. What happened to all that?

We sack the progressive European manager, hire an old school English manager in desperation and his style is totally at odds with what we were building.

Now - just a few months later - and we look very ordinary indeed. players deemed not good enough (Sinani, Onel) 18 months ago return and  look far better than the hollowed out players who got us sunk. Our stars who were heading for huge moves are suddenly unwanted and losing value. Our main striker is grabbing at crumbs and doesn’t suit the style being played, he is tired after a long season but no help was purchased to support him. 

It’s amazing how far we seem to have slid in a year. Fingers crossed this was a blip and the new faces bed in quick- because on this performance we will end up closed to L1 than the Prem 
 

 

Didn’t we change the style of play?

Feels to me like we acknowledged being a pound shop Man City doesn’t work in the PL so the playing model itself needs to change.

I got the impression Smith was brought in to do that, but we still have the same players. Feels like it’s going to be a slow transition to a style that has half a chance in the PL.

I don’t think we have the players to play whatever that is yet. Feels like we’ve been firefighting the fact we don’t since before Farke was let go.

[hogesar 9,722]

15 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

You always do this, Hogesar, and it's not really fair, and, more importantly, not relevant.

OK, so maybe DCB did criticise Farke two years ago. What has that got to do with whether Dean Smith is up to the job now? He may be, he may not be, but what any of us thought about Farke in his first season or two seasons ago is neither here nor there. 

 

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Hoggy struggles to debate fairly and so he tries to discredit me instead. It’s an old political tactic of playing the man not the ball - throwing out crap in the hope some sticks. It’s easier than actually listening and debating politely 

What has it got to do with it now? Everything!

Jumping to the (historically wrong) conclusion- doing so so early into a season yet again with overwhelming negativity having not learnt from getting it wrong with Farke. Not just wrong,  it wasn't like we performed slightly better - we won the league at a canter.

I dont know if Smith will prove to be the right man for us but I do know absolutely no one on here has the ability to know at this stage. That DCB posts negatively at the start of EVERY SINGLE SEASON means he will eventually be right about us in the second tier, but there's nothing substantial to debate with him at this stage because when I defended Farke this time 2 seasons ago he claimed I was a happy clapper as opposed to it actually being clear from a performance point of view we were heading in the right direction.

[TheBaldOne66 697]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

What has it got to do with it now? Everything!

Jumping to the (historically wrong) conclusion- doing so so early into a season yet again with overwhelming negativity having not learnt from getting it wrong with Farke. Not just wrong,  it wasn't like we performed slightly better - we won the league at a canter.

I dont know if Smith will prove to be the right man for us but I do know absolutely no one on here has the ability to know at this stage. That DCB posts negatively at the start of EVERY SINGLE SEASON means he will eventually be right about us in the second tier, but there's nothing substantial to debate with him at this stage because when I defended Farke this time 2 seasons ago he claimed I was a happy clapper as opposed to it actually being clear from a performance point of view we were heading in the right direction.

Serious question for you Hogesar, do you think todays performance was going in the right direction? 
 

Were there any positives to take from it? I didn’t see the game or listen so it’s a genuine question.

 

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

He’s got the first ten games for me if we still look this poor after that then it’s time to shake hands and say our goodbyes. Give him the old old it’s not you it’s me speech and send him off into the night 

[chicken 2,640]

51 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes indeed. That’s really my point - how on earth did he fit the model? May as well have gone for Steve Bruce! 

This is spoken like someone who clearly hasn't watched any football Smith oversaw at Brentford and Villa. Which is great. Because who needs facts like that? 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

Well he’s been here since November so where is it? 

[hogesar 9,722]

1 minute ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Serious question for you Hogesar, do you think todays performance was going in the right direction? 
 

Were there any positives to take from it? I didn’t see the game or listen so it’s a genuine question.

 

 

Nope,  today should be a concern for everyone but it shouldn't immediately spell disaster.

We didnt play well, we didn't create enough and two of last seasons failures (Rashica and Sargent) didn't immediately show they had enough to shine at this level either.

We didnt deserve to lose the game though, and it is only 90 minutes away from home. 

I reference Farkes last title win because we all knew the style of football he played but despite knowing that it didn't stop the exact same criticisms being levelled at him a few games in.

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

Well it wouldn’t be a post-defeat Saturday if we didn’t have DCB spouting rubbish.  He was anti Farke along with the majority when it wasn’t going well, now it was “magic”. Give me a bucket.  At least people mostly used to give Farke more than one game at the start of each season before calling for his head.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[All the Germans 1,081]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

When Farke was doing his magic it felt like a new era. Attacking attractive football, the sense of a set style of play. We were told the DoF ensured that losing a manager would not lead to the end of the system allowing for smooth transition. What happened to all that?

We sack the progressive European manager, hire an old school English manager in desperation and his style is totally at odds with what we were building.

Now - just a few months later - and we look very ordinary indeed. players deemed not good enough (Sinani, Onel) 18 months ago return and  look far better than the hollowed out players who got us sunk. Our stars who were heading for huge moves are suddenly unwanted and losing value. Our main striker is grabbing at crumbs and doesn’t suit the style being played, he is tired after a long season but no help was purchased to support him. 

It’s amazing how far we seem to have slid in a year. Fingers crossed this was a blip and the new faces bed in quick- because on this performance we will end up closed to L1 than the Prem 
 

 

I'm concerned. I usually disagree with every word you say but I actually agree with you. I feel wrong. 

Whilst I agree, I am not a fan of changing manager every few months and changing a manager, much like making a sub, is only good if the change is an improvement. Therefore I believe it would be wrong at this stage to sack him. I may change my mind in 10 or so more games if things have not dramatically improved.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,845]

I really don't think there's any need to panic. 

In 2018/19, we had five points after six games. We won the league.

In 2020/21, we had four points after four games. We won the league.

I always felt that Cardiff away first up was a massive banana skin, and said as much a few weeks ago in the 'how many points will we have after five matches' thread. I think I said that after losing to Cardiff, we'd end up with nine or ten, and I stand by that.

Obviously it was pretty abject today by all reports, compounded by our captain getting himself suspended, but it's far too early to hit the panic button when we've been in worse situations before recently and still won the league.

[chicken 2,640]

14 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Well he’s been here since November so where is it? 

He's been here since November with no signings of his own. It's also a very different question to the opinion you state as fact.

So have you seen the football played under him at Villa and Brentford then? Do you know what it looked like?

[Worthy Nigelton 1,062]

53 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

You always do this, Hogesar, and it's not really fair, and, more importantly, not relevant.

OK, so maybe DCB did criticise Farke two years ago. What has that got to do with whether Dean Smith is up to the job now? He may be, he may not be, but what any of us thought about Farke in his first season or two seasons ago is neither here nor there. 

It is though. Hogesar is right on this occasion and I don't agree with him on everything. If we were to have sacked Farke when much of the crowd wanted we would have never had the wonderful seasons he gave us. I wouldn't have ever sacked Farke though to be honest. He would have had a job for life if I'd have been in Webber's chair.

The same could be true of Smith. It takes time for a new manager to get things right and we owe him that. You can't just keep sacking managers or you end up like Watford and the club loses its soul. Get behind Smith and the team.

My only caveat to that is the style needs to be better than last season. I want to see us play on the deck and not punting it 50 yards up the pitch.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

1 minute ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

It is though. Hogesar is right on this occasion and I don't agree with him on everything. If we were to have sacked Farke when much of the crowd wanted we would have never had the wonderful seasons he gave us. I wouldn't have ever sacked Farke though to be honest. He would have had a job for life if I'd have been in Webber's chair.

The same could be true of Smith. It takes time for a new manager to get things right and we owe him that. You can't just keep sacking managers or you end up like Watford and the club loses its soul. Get behind Smith and the team.

My only caveat to that is the style needs to be better than last season. I want to see us play on the deck and not punting it 50 yards up the pitch.

Not much need for me to add anything, I share the exact same stance as much as I don't like today's result. We already know from Farke's experience that it needed a season of his transfer windows, and ideally three where he could mould the team more into something he thought could be a weapon. So I generally tend to take a fairly patient view with new managers and unless something toxic has gone down in the dressing room/he's lost the dressing room, I'm generally inclined to give a manager far more time than the average fan.

Smith is into his first window now from my perspective, as let's face it, he took this job knowing nothing was going in the last January one. 

[Michael Starr 520]

It's frightening that we ended the game today with Sinani, Gibbs, Hernandez, Hugill and McCallum with Giannoulis and Sorensen starting the game... all these players were nowhere near our first 11 previously.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Michael Starr

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,228]

34 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

It is though. Hogesar is right on this occasion and I don't agree with him on everything. If we were to have sacked Farke when much of the crowd wanted we would have never had the wonderful seasons he gave us. I wouldn't have ever sacked Farke though to be honest. He would have had a job for life if I'd have been in Webber's chair.

The same could be true of Smith. It takes time for a new manager to get things right and we owe him that. You can't just keep sacking managers or you end up like Watford and the club loses its soul. Get behind Smith and the team.

My only caveat to that is the style needs to be better than last season. I want to see us play on the deck and not punting it 50 yards up the pitch.

I think worth pointing out that Webber presumably thought the same when handing Farke a 4 year deal, which is rather a ‘lifetime’ in modern football terms.

As the signings and finance failed to compete at the top level, Farke carried the can. 

That it wasn’t working was self-evident. Why it wasn’t working was what the internal-strategic-culpability battle was fought over. 

In that fight Webber had the weapons and Farke none. 

I’m not sure history will be kind to it.

Parma 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Big Vince 319]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Hoggy struggles to debate fairly and so he tries to discredit me instead. It’s an old political tactic of playing the man not the ball - throwing out crap in the hope some sticks. It’s easier than actually listening and debating politely 

Agreed.

[Big Vince 319]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

 

What has it got to do with it now? Everything!

Jumping to the (historically wrong) conclusion- doing so so early into a season yet again with overwhelming negativity having not learnt from getting it wrong with Farke. Not just wrong,  it wasn't like we performed slightly better - we won the league at a canter.

I dont know if Smith will prove to be the right man for us but I do know absolutely no one on here has the ability to know at this stage. That DCB posts negatively at the start of EVERY SINGLE SEASON means he will eventually be right about us in the second tier, but there's nothing substantial to debate with him at this stage because when I defended Farke this time 2 seasons ago he claimed I was a happy clapper as opposed to it actually being clear from a performance point of view we were heading in the right direction.

Under these owners whenever the club heads in the right direction it soon reaches the glass ceiling and falls back.