Todd

[horsefly 4,310]

15 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I'd hold fire on that suggestion just yet.    Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it.   Jury has to be out on Hayden until he actually convinces us he's any good.    All we have is, he's played quite a few games (but by no means all) in a relatively poor Newcastle team that struggled in the EPL year on year.   

What is your evidence for this? How many games have you seen Hayden play? The evidence for Hayden comes from Newcastle fans who seem to have universally rated him. Where is your evidence for the claim that " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it"? 

[ZLF 274]

I do think its in Todds hands;  the lack of appearances and impact at bournemouth says he needs to re-energise his career, to maximise he next contract if nothing else.   If he add focus and hard work to the ability he has there will be enough to warrant his chance with the management team,  his playing colleagues and us the fans.      

 

Personally i hope to see a strong focused season,  probably followed by a fan fury free transfer move in the summer.

 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

What is the Contract situation with Todd ? 

did the club offer him a new deal and he refused ?

were his demands to much ? 

seem to have lost track with all the Todd stories last season 

 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

49 minutes ago, horsefly said:

What is your evidence for this? How many games have you seen Hayden play? The evidence for Hayden comes from Newcastle fans who seem to have universally rated him. Where is your evidence for the claim that " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it"? 

I was responding to FTW's comment which read 'And maybe the fact he's the best player we have for that role expedited the need to bring in someone better, i.e. Hayden?'     Why did you feel the need to ask for evidence from me and not from FTW?    Are you the playground bully?  You will only misread and embellish what I say anyway!

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Slight over reaction 😂

Nothing lower than a grammar nazi.

Dunno what you mean I'd been reading a book about king cnut the great and recommended it.

[horsefly 4,310]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I was responding to FTW's comment which read 'And maybe the fact he's the best player we have for that role expedited the need to bring in someone better, i.e. Hayden?'     Why did you feel the need to ask for evidence from me and not from FTW?    Are you the playground bully?  You will only misread and embellish what I say anyway!

Calm down! I merely asked you what evidence you had to support your claim (not mine) that, " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it." That's a remarkably bold claim that seems to be founded on no evidence whatsoever. Perhaps you have seen Hayden play most of his 118 games in the top flight and genuinely dispute what Newcastle fans have posted on their forums. Hardly being a "playground bully" to make a simple request that you back up what you said. 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

47 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Calm down! I merely asked you what evidence you had to support your claim (not mine) that, " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it." That's a remarkably bold claim that seems to be founded on no evidence whatsoever. Perhaps you have seen Hayden play most of his 118 games in the top flight and genuinely dispute what Newcastle fans have posted on their forums. Hardly being a "playground bully" to make a simple request that you back up what you said. 

I'm calm mate.   You aren't merely asking though are you!    Answer my questions then, why not ask for evidence off FTW?

...and I can and do back up what I say, have been doing that for the many years I've been on here.   You don't read what is said rationally so what is the point engaging with you!   You ignore or embellish to suit your argument and belligerently bulldose your point.   For those reasons only, I'd rather not engage with you.    

 

[horsefly 4,310]

6 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I'm calm mate.   You aren't merely asking though are you!    Answer my questions then, why not ask for evidence off FTW?

...and I can and do back up what I say, have been doing that for the many years I've been on here.   You don't read what is said rationally so what is the point engaging with you!   You ignore or embellish to suit your argument and belligerently bulldose your point.   For those reasons only, I'd rather not engage with you.    

 

My word! You really are in an aggressive mood aren't you ... mate! Firstly, I didn't realise that other posters can demand that one criticise another poster's comments; I do apologise for not being aware of the forum rules stating this. Secondly, I happen to agree with FTW's qualified statement that Hayden has experience and a proven track record (118 games in the PL) that Lungi doesn't have. For the record, I like Lungi and hope he steps up to the mark if he gets a chance.

Please do point out where there is evidence I didn't read what you said; unless my computer is faulty, as far as I can see this was your complete post:

"I'd hold fire on that suggestion just yet.    Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it.   Jury has to be out on Hayden until he actually convinces us he's any good.    All we have is, he's played quite a few games (but by no means all) in a relatively poor Newcastle team that struggled in the EPL year on year.   

And this was my response:

What is your evidence for this? How many games have you seen Hayden play? The evidence for Hayden comes from Newcastle fans who seem to have universally rated him. Where is your evidence for the claim that " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it"? 

Please do point out where in my response it shows that I, "...don't read what is said rationally". And please demonstrate where it is that I, "ignore or embellish to suit your argument and belligerently bulldose [sic] your point". 

I simply asked you what evidence you had for claiming that  "Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball". Hardly "playground bullying" or "belligerently bulldozing a point". I think on reflection you might want to reconsider what a "rational" response looks like. I am happy to learn that you don't feel compelled to respond to my posts, but I do feel obliged to warn that I will happily respond to yours.

 

[Feedthewolf 4,865]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I'm calm mate.   You aren't merely asking though are you!    Answer my questions then, why not ask for evidence off FTW?

...and I can and do back up what I say, have been doing that for the many years I've been on here.   You don't read what is said rationally so what is the point engaging with you!   You ignore or embellish to suit your argument and belligerently bulldose your point.   For those reasons only, I'd rather not engage with you.    

 

I'd like to think that I justified my comment in my following post:

As with everything, the proof's in the pudding. From what I have seen of the two players, though, I think Hayden is a much better CDM than Lungi. Age and potential is definitely on Lungi's side, but he's not come close to cementing a regular start in what is supposed to be his strongest position.

Tettey wasn't much on the ball, but boy did we miss him when he wasn't there. We're looking to sign the ball-playing CM to go alongside Hayden, so what we need from the CDM role is a bodyguard, not a ball-player. Obviously I'd be delighted if Lungi steps up and fills that role, though!

So basically, I believe Hayden more closely fits the skill-set required to play the CDM role in the system that Smith wants to play (as evidenced by him moving to secure a more creative number 8 to play alongside him). And, of course, there's the fact that he has a lot more PL experience.

[hogesar 9,722]

18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'd like to think that I justified my comment in my following post:

As with everything, the proof's in the pudding. From what I have seen of the two players, though, I think Hayden is a much better CDM than Lungi. Age and potential is definitely on Lungi's side, but he's not come close to cementing a regular start in what is supposed to be his strongest position.

Tettey wasn't much on the ball, but boy did we miss him when he wasn't there. We're looking to sign the ball-playing CM to go alongside Hayden, so what we need from the CDM role is a bodyguard, not a ball-player. Obviously I'd be delighted if Lungi steps up and fills that role, though!

So basically, I believe Hayden more closely fits the skill-set required to play the CDM role in the system that Smith wants to play (as evidenced by him moving to secure a more creative number 8 to play alongside him). And, of course, there's the fact that he has a lot more PL experience.

Hayden also got into, and played in, a Premier League surviving Newcastle over more than one season. Lungi hasn't made himself a starter for us even at Championship level. If he doesn't do it this coming season, it'll be under two well-respected coaches at that level too.

[king canary 7,654]

59 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hayden also got into, and played in, a Premier League surviving Newcastle over more than one season. Lungi hasn't made himself a starter for us even at Championship level. If he doesn't do it this coming season, it'll be under two well-respected coaches at that level too.

Yeah I'm generally a fan of Sorensen but I get the sense he's in the same boat as Byram now- seen as a backup who can cover 2 or 3 positions rather than a starter at one place and I've not seen much in his performances as a DM to suggest he's the answer we've been looking for all along.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'd like to think that I justified my comment in my following post:

As with everything, the proof's in the pudding. From what I have seen of the two players, though, I think Hayden is a much better CDM than Lungi. Age and potential is definitely on Lungi's side, but he's not come close to cementing a regular start in what is supposed to be his strongest position.

Tettey wasn't much on the ball, but boy did we miss him when he wasn't there. We're looking to sign the ball-playing CM to go alongside Hayden, so what we need from the CDM role is a bodyguard, not a ball-player. Obviously I'd be delighted if Lungi steps up and fills that role, though!

So basically, I believe Hayden more closely fits the skill-set required to play the CDM role in the system that Smith wants to play (as evidenced by him moving to secure a more creative number 8 to play alongside him). And, of course, there's the fact that he has a lot more PL experience.

Sorry FTW, you didn't have to justify it at all.   I had no problem with your post.   That wasn't my point to Horsefly.   I felt the tone of his reaction was a continuation of a previous thread last week where he took what I stated, misrepresented it, embellished it to suit him, was a tad disrespectful I thought and used his false interpretation of my comments to argue against me and at that point how do you have a debate.... Impossible!    The fact he responded to my earlier point in that same tone, I replied accordingly, politely I thought with a simple question, but honestly I'd rather chat with a binner!   No point in debating with him.    I was just using the fact you made a similar statement to me (unsupported by evidence) but didn't get the same treatment ....    Knows exactly what he's doing, no need really, all we have in common is we're Norwich fans.    I think that's the case but I'm beginning to wonder if he's actually trolling now!    

Horsefly, except for asking you the question, none of my other comments on this thread relate to it, just our recent interactions.   I'm really not interested in debating with you and hopefully the above will answer your last message.   If not, would you mind just leaving it there. 

As for your points FTW, I agree, we desparately need CDM's with athleticism, energy, anticipation and tackling and Hayden fits that mould moreso than Sorensen or anyone we've recently (except Skipp).   I do think given time to settle, Sorensen seems someone that will hold that position and cover well, doesn't have the energy and pace, but can play a bit.   From what I read when we signed Hayden, many of their fans and stats did suggest he does an effective stopper job but he's not clever on the ball.    I think he is useful to have and our best alternative in case Hayden was to get injured (but that won't happen surely).    

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Sorry FTW, you didn't have to justify it at all.   I had no problem with your post.   That wasn't my point to Horsefly.   I felt the tone of his reaction was a continuation of a previous thread last week where he took what I stated, misrepresented it, embellished it to suit him, was a tad disrespectful I thought and used his false interpretation of my comments to argue against me and at that point how do you have a debate.... Impossible!    The fact he responded to my earlier point in that same tone, I replied accordingly, politely I thought with a simple question, but honestly I'd rather chat with a binner!   No point in debating with him.    I was just using the fact you made a similar statement to me (unsupported by evidence) but didn't get the same treatment ....    Knows exactly what he's doing, no need really, all we have in common is we're Norwich fans.    I think that's the case but I'm beginning to wonder if he's actually trolling now!    

Horsefly, except for asking you the question, none of my other comments on this thread relate to it, just our recent interactions.   I'm really not interested in debating with you and hopefully the above will answer your last message.   If not, would you mind just leaving it there. 

As for your points FTW, I agree, we desparately need CDM's with athleticism, energy, anticipation and tackling and Hayden fits that mould moreso than Sorensen or anyone we've recently (except Skipp).   I do think given time to settle, Sorensen seems someone that will hold that position and cover well, doesn't have the energy and pace, but can play a bit.   From what I read when we signed Hayden, many of their fans and stats did suggest he does an effective stopper job but he's not clever on the ball.    I think he is useful to have and our best alternative in case Hayden was to get injured (but that won't happen surely).    

I made sure I ‘unfollowed’ this person weeks ago when he tried to consistently make false claims and after repeatedly being asked to explain himself kept avoiding doing it, because he knew he couldn’t. Initially it was amusing but then they personally insulted me and spouted yet more complete tosh which they claimed to be from their expert view. All starting with a straightforward difference of opinion that they couldn’t accept as being totally ok to have! It’s nice that they can’t troll me anymore but sad to see they’ve continued to try and bully others. 

I think we have also had differences of opinion but I think there’s a line that gets crossed more by some than others. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[Canary dwarf 221]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

Yeah I'm generally a fan of Sorensen but I get the sense he's in the same boat as Byram now- seen as a backup who can cover 2 or 3 positions rather than a starter at one place and I've not seen much in his performances as a DM to suggest he's the answer we've been looking for all along.

I think with a decent run in the side in his preferred position  he'll prove himself to be the daddy, not sure why  2  managers have not rated him though , must be **** in training ,but let's give this danish badge a good run in the side, I'm sure he'll come good otbc

[horsefly 4,310]

3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Sorry FTW, you didn't have to justify it at all.   I had no problem with your post.   That wasn't my point to Horsefly.   I felt the tone of his reaction was a continuation of a previous thread last week where he took what I stated, misrepresented it, embellished it to suit him, was a tad disrespectful I thought and used his false interpretation of my comments to argue against me and at that point how do you have a debate.... Impossible!    The fact he responded to my earlier point in that same tone, I replied accordingly, politely I thought with a simple question, but honestly I'd rather chat with a binner!   No point in debating with him.    I was just using the fact you made a similar statement to me (unsupported by evidence) but didn't get the same treatment ....    Knows exactly what he's doing, no need really, all we have in common is we're Norwich fans.    I think that's the case but I'm beginning to wonder if he's actually trolling now!    

Horsefly, except for asking you the question, none of my other comments on this thread relate to it, just our recent interactions.   I'm really not interested in debating with you and hopefully the above will answer your last message.   If not, would you mind just leaving it there. 

As for your points FTW, I agree, we desparately need CDM's with athleticism, energy, anticipation and tackling and Hayden fits that mould moreso than Sorensen or anyone we've recently (except Skipp).   I do think given time to settle, Sorensen seems someone that will hold that position and cover well, doesn't have the energy and pace, but can play a bit.   From what I read when we signed Hayden, many of their fans and stats did suggest he does an effective stopper job but he's not clever on the ball.    I think he is useful to have and our best alternative in case Hayden was to get injured (but that won't happen surely).    

Good Lord you really do have a persecution complex don't you! Take a look at my post again and tell me where there is a single disrespectful word. I merely asked you to justify your claim that Lungi is probably twice as good as Hayden. If anyone on here is trolling it is you trying to invent insults where none have remotely existed. Do try to debate rationally or simply keep quiet. If you are going to continually make false claims about my posts then I will be forced to expose your lies. 

[horsefly 4,310]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

I made sure I ‘unfollowed’ this person weeks ago when he tried to consistently make false claims and after repeatedly being asked to explain himself kept avoiding doing it, because he knew he couldn’t. Initially it was amusing but then they personally insulted me and spouted yet more complete tosh which they claimed to be from their expert view. All starting with a straightforward difference of opinion that they couldn’t accept as being totally ok to have! It’s nice that they can’t troll me anymore but sad to see they’ve continued to try and bully others. 

I think we have also had differences of opinion but I think there’s a line that gets crossed more by some than others. 

Oh dear! You were the one who made homophobic comments about Todd Cantwell (which the moderator had to remove) and then admitted publicly that you and your husband were having great fun trolling me over several posts. Best not to push this sanctimonious tosh when you have made such a public declaration that you are a troll.

[chicken 2,640]

Sorensen is 24, Hayden 27, both have Birthdays in March. So almost exactly 3yrs apart.

I do feel, that whilst 24 is still relatively young, I think it's fair to say that if Sorensen is to reach the level of potential some on here seem to attribute to him, he will have to take any chance he gets with both hands and really kick on - and NOW.

Yes he is relatively solid and has put in some assured performances at times, for me, there is still something missing. Hard to put a finger on what exactly. Perhaps he needs regular games? Which to me is odd, because often the same people that feel he should be taking up one of our regular midfield slots are also the ones that were calling for proven premier league quality for our side.

This is a make or break season for Sorensen for me.

Edited July 13, 2022 by chicken

[ged in the onion bag 856]

10 hours ago, horsefly said:

Good Lord you really do have a persecution complex don't you! Take a look at my post again and tell me where there is a single disrespectful word. I merely asked you to justify your claim that Lungi is probably twice as good as Hayden. If anyone on here is trolling it is you trying to invent insults where none have remotely existed. Do try to debate rationally or simply keep quiet. If you are going to continually make false claims about my posts then I will be forced to expose your lies. 

How thick are you?    Sorry but had enough mate, leave it out.   I clearly explained, the issues all came about in a thread last week, nothing to do with this thread where I have just asked you a question.  And this response just evidences my point yet again, you are either trolling or have a screw loose.    I asked you to leave it out and will not be responding to you again so don't waste your time.  Clearly I will have to do what another poster has done and unfollow you.  

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i think my question was swallowed up by other posts 

What is the Contract situation with Todd ? 

did the club offer him a new deal and he refused ?

were his demands to much ? 

seem to have lost track with all the Todd stories last season 

[horsefly 4,310]

49 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

How thick are you?    Sorry but had enough mate, leave it out.   I clearly explained, the issues all came about in a thread last week, nothing to do with this thread where I have just asked you a question.  And this response just evidences my point yet again, you are either trolling or have a screw loose.    I asked you to leave it out and will not be responding to you again so don't waste your time.  Clearly I will have to do what another poster has done and unfollow you.  

Ah! the man who complains of harassment, despite not being able to point to a single word in my response that was offensive, yet again resorts to personal abuse. Your lack of self-awareness is most amusing. All I did was question what evidence you had for YOUR claim that Lungi is probably twice as good as Hayden. The fact that you can't come up with any evidence is your problem not mine. If you can't handle the fact that someone might question a position that you appear happy to put forward in such bold language, then perhaps you should think twice about posting on a public forum.

BTW, I think that's about the fifth time you've said you won't be responding to me again, perhaps you should consider keeping your word.

[AJ 1,224]

54 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think my question was swallowed up by other posts 

What is the Contract situation with Todd ? 

did the club offer him a new deal and he refused ?

were his demands to much ? 

seem to have lost track with all the Todd stories last season 

Todd is contracted until next summer, I would assume the club will see how he gets on this season as to whether they offer him a new deal or not. We don't know the full story of what happened here, or why it didn't work out at Bournemouth or whatever, but it's all down to Todd to earn a new deal now, or of course a move away. He just needs to get his head down and work hard - other teams will be looking at his Bournemouth loan as a good indication that he is not worth a punt at the moment, and indeed we might feel he's not worth a new contract either. Only Todd can change that. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

36 minutes ago, AJ said:

Todd is contracted until next summer, I would assume the club will see how he gets on this season as to whether they offer him a new deal or not. We don't know the full story of what happened here, or why it didn't work out at Bournemouth or whatever, but it's all down to Todd to earn a new deal now, or of course a move away. He just needs to get his head down and work hard - other teams will be looking at his Bournemouth loan as a good indication that he is not worth a punt at the moment, and indeed we might feel he's not worth a new contract either. Only Todd can change that. 

Yes i agree 

i know  we triggered a extension that was in his last contract so he still has this season 

But did the club  already offered him a deal last summer before it all started to go wrong ?

maybe that is what the fall out was ? 

 

 

[shefcanary 2,444]

Just now, norfolkngood said:

Yes i agree 

i know  we triggered a extension that was in his last contract so he still has this season 

But did the club  already offered him a deal last summer before it all started to go wrong ?

maybe that is what the fall out was ? 

Who knows - that could well have been the source of all parties grievance, but also Cantwell's head wasn't completely clear due to a family issue as well. We've all moved on now so would expect if he is still here beyond 1 September, negotiations will start again in earnest with clear sheets of A4 in front of both parties.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Who knows - that could well have been the source of all parties grievance, but also Cantwell's head wasn't completely clear due to a family issue as well. We've all moved on now so would expect if he is still here beyond 1 September, negotiations will start again in earnest with clear sheets of A4 in front of both parties.

yes hopefully 

gets his head down new contract so at least we get a good fee for him if this happens again or he regains his form 

[AJ 1,224]

I think it is likely the club did offer him a contract when they signed several players onto new deals last summer, given Todd at the time was regarded as a promising asset, but no new deal was announced so he's definitely still on his existing deal

[Mr Tea 105]

If you stand back and look at the situation you can say one thing and that Todd has proved he can be a good player. He has done it in the past over many players that are often well discussed about becoming a good player.  So i would imagine others , and the club of course, will want to know what he has dropped and equally how to get him back up to his previous level. 

I do feel he hasnt done this on purpose, as in got the hump and allowed things to develop as they have . The loan would have sorted that out .

 

[kirku 1,334]

On 13/07/2022 at 11:32, ged in the onion bag said:

I'd hold fire on that suggestion just yet.    Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it.   Jury has to be out on Hayden until he actually convinces us he's any good.    All we have is, he's played quite a few games (but by no means all) in a relatively poor Newcastle team that struggled in the EPL year on year.   

All available evidence would suggest that Hayden is a significantly better CDM than Sorensen - what is your opinion based on?

[Indy 3,314]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

All available evidence would suggest that Hayden is a significantly better CDM than Sorensen - what is your opinion based on?

I think we need to put the injury into this equation, Hayden WAS significantly better, but we have to wait and see if he can gain full fitness, gain match sharpness and find his best form, if not then Sorensen looks as good a bet this season!

Edited July 14, 2022 by Indy

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

5 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

How thick are you?    Sorry but had enough mate, leave it out.   I clearly explained, the issues all came about in a thread last week, nothing to do with this thread where I have just asked you a question.  And this response just evidences my point yet again, you are either trolling or have a screw loose.    I asked you to leave it out and will not be responding to you again so don't waste your time.  Clearly I will have to do what another poster has done and unfollow you.  

You’re honestly better off. 

[horsefly 4,310]

14 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

You’re honestly better off. 

A little reminder of the "balanced constructive" approach you have taken re Todd Cantwell:

"I actually don’t hope he finds the limited 6 games of form he once demonstrated, even if it means us losing our investment. I hope he carries in his decline and ends up having to work for a f**king living at the level of salary his attitude, work ethic and intellect deserve. 

I’ve always been critical of him as a footballer, made no secret of that, but stopped short of slating his character (mostly). I’m done with that now, it won’t make a difference to him whether I regard him as a complete c*** or otherwise. I’ve seen and heard enough to make a confident assessment. Even his ‘nice gestures’ are designed to improve his profile, otherwise why post them on social media at all. 

F*** off Todd. Leave your braids at the door. You’re not wanted." (posted june 15)

Doesn't quite fit the sanctimonious ("we're all Norwich fans") tone you're trying to delude people with on this thread does it! And that's one of the milder (non-homophobic) posts that didn't get banned by the moderator. I suggest you wind your neck in troll.