Dowell to become our new main star man?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,823]

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-canaries-dowell-key-in-smith-plans-9038452

Edited June 15, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[TheGunnShow 6,020]

He can hit a tasty pass, and definitely is an upgrade on set pieces, but his workrate off the ball always worries me a bit. Does make me wonder if Hayden's arrival could set him free to just create. And if he's not looking for balls to Pukki, then maybe finding a winger or overlapping full-back.

Smith is making the right noises about needing the right base behind Dowell to get the best out of him, it's pretty much admitting he's a bit of a luxury player.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

A luxury player as in he doesn't tackle back. He'll never be as good as Buendia if that's the case.

[Mason 47 1,403]

I've said for a while I think if Dowell starts most games this season he'll end up with at least 10g and 10a. He's rather been a forgotten party over the past year but I think he will surprise a few people.

[Google Bot 3,329]

Think he's a great player, and much younger than you think he is.  ...But his body language on field makes him appear so dis-interested.

I mean, Stiepers looked dis-interested, too.. But he was more in a more troubled and menacing way.... Dowell just doesn't appear to give a **** to me so hard to fully get behind the guy.

[daly 512]

Certainly surprise a few supporters 

[Branston Pickle 3,696]

I think he’s a very good player with a decent range of passing and a good shot, but not blessed with great pace - certainly good enough for a decent/high Champs side.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Danke bitte 967]

Could just be more smoke and mirrors to allay the fact we don’t have £ to spend on a position they think a player we already have can step up. 

My caveat with this thinking is, Todd was

supposed to be that player when Buendia left. 

And I worry too that’s the mindset we might have this window especially after that Athletic piece seemed to suggest Webber felt the squad that went down had enough about them to push again. I’m struggling to get excited about most of that midfield staying tbh.

Interestingly though I listened to the most recent Pink Un podcast and they mentioned the club was looking for a player psychologist to add to the ranks to quell that “losing mentality” Smith himself mentioned. 

[Don J Demorr 162]

Well whatever else Dowell should surely be a round peg in a round hole.🙂

[Google Bot 3,329]

42 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

My caveat with this thinking is, Todd was supposed to be that player when Buendia left. 

I always thought the plan was for Todd to go, Emi to stay unless offered silly money, and Dowell to be Todd's replacement.

As it happened, Emi went, Todd stayed and Dowell came in.

[Pyro Pete 1,924]

I rate Dowell in the Championship. Providing he plays as a no.10.

Not so much in the Premier League though.

But for a tall bloke, he's rubbish at heading high balls.

[Move Klose 303]

17 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I always thought the plan was for Todd to go, Emi to stay unless offered silly money, and Dowell to be Todd's replacement.

As it happened, Emi went, Todd stayed and Dowell came in.

Dowell was signed to be Buendias replacement. But then he didn't go. Think he played on the right in our 1st game as Emi was suspended.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

13 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

I rate Dowell in the Championship. Providing he plays as a no.10.

Not so much in the Premier League though.

But for a tall bloke, he's rubbish at heading high balls.

Just curious, what do you propose we do with Dowell if we get promoted?

I make it we have a lot of players that fit your descripton above, evidenced by the abysmal season we've all just endured.   McLean, Zimm, Gibson, Giannoulis, Sargent, Lees-Melou for starters.   We struggled and failed miserably to replace two on last promotion, if we keep playing lads that don't have the right attributes and can't step up but don't have money, how can we replace them?   Whats the point of going up this way and getting pummelled again?   

Am I right in thinking all these fans that quote 'I rate him in the Championship', 'he's a good Championship player etc' are happy for us to carry on playing these lads that just don't have the tools to step up and if so what is expected on a promotion, how (in the absense of funds) will they be replaced, or are You / these fans happy to endure another debacle.       These lads will continue to play at the expense of giving opportunity to others who may need time but might be more capable with a bit of experience..... for example, Martin may well be much better than Dowell given a chance, Rowe and Springett and likely Tzolis offer a lot more speed and probably nuisance factor to opponents... etc... etc... Sorensen may be more productive than Hayden since he can pass the ball well and all he has done is taken every opportunity they've given him as best he can.  Do accept we need some CDM defensive cover from the off which Hayden will give!

[Danke bitte 967]

15 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Just curious, what do you propose we do with Dowell if we get promoted?

I make it we have a lot of players that fit your descripton above, evidenced by the abysmal season we've all just endured.   McLean, Zimm, Gibson, Giannoulis, Sargent, Lees-Melou for starters.   We struggled and failed miserably to replace two on last promotion, if we keep playing lads that don't have the right attributes and can't step up but don't have money, how can we replace them?   Whats the point of going up this way and getting pummelled again?   

Am I right in thinking all these fans that quote 'I rate him in the Championship', 'he's a good Championship player etc' are happy for us to carry on playing these lads that just don't have the tools to step up and if so what is expected on a promotion, how (in the absense of funds) will they be replaced, or are You / these fans happy to endure another debacle.       These lads will continue to play at the expense of giving opportunity to others who may need time but might be more capable with a bit of experience..... for example, Martin may well be much better than Dowell given a chance, Rowe and Springett and likely Tzolis offer a lot more speed and probably nuisance factor to opponents... etc... etc... Sorensen may be more productive than Hayden since he can pass the ball well and all he has done is taken every opportunity they've given him as best he can.  Do accept we need some CDM defensive cover from the off which Hayden will give!

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking, there’s a midfield we went down with that Webber, and I’m citing the Athletic article (again) here, felt could do a job at Champ level. 

For me, that’s concerning. We already have that losing mentality baked in according to Smith. Why then should we continue with players that contributed to that? What has Dowell, Placheta et al shown to us that they should be kept on though I have to take into account money is a massive factor as to why they are. I’m not so naive. 

I appreciate its early in this window but I wonder as to how we’re shaping this squad to be one foot in the now and the other towards the Premier League and if that’s even possible for us now?

[ged in the onion bag 857]

9 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking, there’s a midfield we went down with that Webber, and I’m citing the Athletic article (again) here, felt could do a job at Champ level. 

For me, that’s concerning. We already have that losing mentality baked in according to Smith. Why then should we continue with players that contributed to that? What has Dowell, Placheta et al shown to us that they should be kept on though I have to take into account money is a massive factor as to why they are. I’m not so naive. 

I appreciate its early in this window but I wonder as to how we’re shaping this squad to be one foot in the now and the other towards the Premier League and if that’s even possible for us now?

Totally agree with you....

It's a worry,  I have always supported our approach but it seems the club may be losing its way along this road, losing track of how to reach its goals and there seems a sense of desperation in it all.    This way the goals are unattainable and I'm surprised they would even risk a third embarrassment!   There is no way this squad can be overhauled in one season without serious money sufficient that we could give the EPL a competitive go.   No chance whatsoever.   Don't understand these fans that think picking 'good championship players' is going to cut it again.  

Yes, we might be stuck with these players, doesn't mean we have to play them, the club have created this situation and making the best of that means if we can't get fees for them then let them fill the subs bench while the kids get a run about. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ged in the onion bag

[Pyro Pete 1,924]

22 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Just curious, what do you propose we do with Dowell if we get promoted?

I make it we have a lot of players that fit your descripton above, evidenced by the abysmal season we've all just endured.   McLean, Zimm, Gibson, Giannoulis, Sargent, Lees-Melou for starters.   We struggled and failed miserably to replace two on last promotion, if we keep playing lads that don't have the right attributes and can't step up but don't have money, how can we replace them?   Whats the point of going up this way and getting pummelled again?   

Am I right in thinking all these fans that quote 'I rate him in the Championship', 'he's a good Championship player etc' are happy for us to carry on playing these lads that just don't have the tools to step up and if so what is expected on a promotion, how (in the absense of funds) will they be replaced, or are You / these fans happy to endure another debacle.       These lads will continue to play at the expense of giving opportunity to others who may need time but might be more capable with a bit of experience..... for example, Martin may well be much better than Dowell given a chance, Rowe and Springett and likely Tzolis offer a lot more speed and probably nuisance factor to opponents... etc... etc... Sorensen may be more productive than Hayden since he can pass the ball well and all he has done is taken every opportunity they've given him as best he can.  Do accept we need some CDM defensive cover from the off which Hayden will give!

We have a problem in that we sell our players who are capable of competing in the Premier League. Maddison, Buendia, Godfrey, Lewis. Probably Aarons, in future.

This continually undermines our aim of establishing ourselves in the Premier League. We could build a team around these players, but we don't. So we are left with players like Dowell et al, who are capable in the Championship. But not at a higher level.

Also, looking at the players we have sold to the Premier League, only one was signed under Webber. That's a major concern.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

31 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

We have a problem in that we sell our players who are capable of competing in the Premier League. Maddison, Buendia, Godfrey, Lewis. Probably Aarons, in future.

This continually undermines our aim of establishing ourselves in the Premier League. We could build a team around these players, but we don't. So we are left with players like Dowell et al, who are capable in the Championship. But not at a higher level.

Also, looking at the players we have sold to the Premier League, only one was signed under Webber. That's a major concern.

Yes, you are quite right and thats one of the issues about us being too nice and accommodating that needs to change... they are under contract so should be held to it just like Emi should have been... we have to continue to offer opportunity but stop giving an easy out....

But would you rather play Dowell knowing he has little improvement, is inconsistent and can't operate at EPL (doesnt have the engine or speed for starters so why did we sign him in the first place?) or let Tzolis, Martin, Dickson-Peters, Springett or Rowe loose with the youthful exhuberance and technical ability to see what they can do.   Or put Rashica in the middle or Cantwell if we can get him back, all for me better options than Dowell or Platcheta.      

You quoted 'I rate Dowell in the Championship. Providing he plays as a no.10'.   Lots of fans are saying similar things that e.g. 'McLeans a solid Championship player', are you really happy for us to continue playing them and if so, what I am curious about is what are you expecting following that route.... we won't be developing a better team or squad, are you happy if we get promoted, do you expect another pummelling or somehow that we will have Billions to buy a new team.... would you prefer to watch Dowell and McLean over Sorensen and all the other youngsters busting a gut to get in!

Edited June 15, 2022 by ged in the onion bag

[ron obvious 1,514]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Think he's a great player, and much younger than you think he is.  ...But his body language on field makes him appear so dis-interested.

I mean, Stiepers looked dis-interested, too.. But he was more in a more troubled and menacing way.... Dowell just doesn't appear to give a **** to me so hard to fully get behind the guy.

AAAARRRGGHHH!!!

UNINTERESTED not DISINTERESTED!!!!

For example, in the same way as a judge, a referee should be interested  in proceedings while having no interest  in the nature of the outcome. Both judges & referees are (or damn well should be) disinterested parties in the matter.

Sorry but it's a pet peeve. The two words really do mean different things.

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

AAAARRRGGHHH!!!

UNINTERESTED not DISINTERESTED!!!!

For example, in the same way as a judge, a referee should be interested  in proceedings while having no interest  in the nature of the outcome. Both judges & referees are (or damn well should be) disinterested parties in the matter.

Sorry but it's a pet peeve. The two words really do mean different things.

Ron, they are often in effect not just different but opposites, because for example a disinterested observer is by definition interested or they wouldn’t be observing, but I am afraid that ship has sailed.

Along with the now usual misuse in sports journalism in particular of ‘in the firing line’ with such and such a manager in the firing line and about to be sacked, when if they are for the chop they are in the line of fire, with the directors in the firing line doing the firing.

 

[Pyro Pete 1,924]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Yes, you are quite right and thats one of the issues about us being too nice and accommodating that needs to change... they are under contract so should be held to it just like Emi should have been... we have to continue to offer opportunity but stop giving an easy out....

But would you rather play Dowell knowing he has little improvement, is inconsistent and can't operate at EPL (doesnt have the engine or speed for starters so why did we sign him in the first place?) or let Tzolis, Martin, Dickson-Peters, Springett or Rowe loose with the youthful exhuberance and technical ability to see what they can do.   Or put Rashica in the middle or Cantwell if we can get him back, all for me better options than Dowell or Platcheta.      

You quoted 'I rate Dowell in the Championship. Providing he plays as a no.10'.   Lots of fans are saying similar things that e.g. 'McLeans a solid Championship player', are you really happy for us to continue playing them and if so, what I am curious about is what are you expecting following that route.... we won't be developing a better team or squad, are you happy if we get promoted, do you expect another pummelling or somehow that we will have Billions to buy a new team.... would you prefer to watch Dowell and McLean over Sorensen and all the other youngsters busting a gut to get in!

What you're describing is what Farke did by replacing senior pros with the likes of Maddison, Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis etc. But we subsequently sold them (we're expecting Aarons to leave, I hasten to add).

Unless we break that cycle, it's hard to see us being more than a yo-yo side.

As to your specific point, firstly Dowell is only 24. Same age as Sørensen, incidentally. So you would expect him to develop further. But if Smith sees greater potential in the likes of Rowe and Springett, I see no reason why they shouldn't be played ahead of Dowell.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Pyro Pete

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

A luxury player as in he doesn't tackle back. He'll never be as good as Buendia if that's the case.

Well he'll never be as good as Buendia even if that was the case.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

What you're describing is what Farke did by replacing senior pros with the likes of Maddison, Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis etc. But we subsequently sold them (we're expecting Aarons to leave, I hasten to add).

Unless we break that cycle, it's hard to see us being more than a yo-yo side.

As to your specific point, firstly Dowell is only 24. Same age as Sørensen, incidentally. So you would expect him to develop further. But if Smith sees greater potential in the likes of Rowe and Springett, I see no reason why they shouldn't be played ahead of Dowell.

Difference is the club now has better infrastructure in place, a greater talent pool and plenty of experience that in an ideal world would lead to more informed decisions and less mistakes…. Not panning out that way but starting the process again, developing another 4 or 5 youngsters from this base could help us reach a level where those players won’t want or need to move on.    
 

The problem with Dowell is we might be able to develop his technique, raise confidence, get him to tackle back more but ultimately it’s very hard to make someone quicker.

[ZLF 275]

He has shown flashes of potential, but it is the inconsistency and a demeanour that suggests a lack of effort (rather than a kenny visible effort) or anything to suggest he is better than todd that concerns me. 

Happy to give him that responsibility for a run of games but this really is last chance saloon from me.  I do feel we need to be buying an alternative too

   

[Danke bitte 967]

1 minute ago, ZLF said:

He has shown flashes of potential, but it is the inconsistency and a demeanour that suggests a lack of effort (rather than a kenny visible effort) or anything to suggest he is better than todd that concerns me. 

Happy to give him that responsibility for a run of games but this really is last chance saloon from me.  I do feel we need to be buying an alternative too

   

Succinctly put. This is 3rd season he’d have been around the first team picture and hasn’t pulled up trees.

Smith sees him day in / out though so who knows.

I do tend to take these hyperbole pieces from EDP with a pinch of salt though as Bailey and The Athletic seem to have more of an inside scoop so I wouldn’t be surprised to see another playmaker and that box to box mid come in before the window is done. 

[Capt. Pants 4,285]

I'm not sure I'd read much into this as in my mind our core midfield will be McLean, Lees Melou and Hayden. Dowell will get his chance and hopefully make a very positive contribution. He needs to mind as he's been here a while and we haven't really seen that consistently for one reason and another.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, ZLF said:

He has shown flashes of potential, but it is the inconsistency and a demeanour that suggests a lack of effort (rather than a kenny visible effort) or anything to suggest he is better than todd that concerns me. 

Happy to give him that responsibility for a run of games but this really is last chance saloon from me.  I do feel we need to be buying an alternative too

He's out of contract in 2023, so even if he finally fulfilled his potential we'd end up being held at ransom for his contract renewal. Can see it now.... Dowell has an excellent season, we get promoted with Burnley, he joins them on a freebie to be closer to home.

If Smith rates him and thinks he's part of his plans, could do we with extending his deal now rather than later. 

Personally I think Dowell is a bit of a maverick, and the only place on the pitch in modern football where you can get away with being one of those is as a second striker / conventional number 10. If Smith intends to play one of those then great (perhaps Pukki can also slot in here at times, with Idah in front), I don't really see Dowell as a natural wide player, can't defend well enough for the modern winger plus doesn't really have the stamina.

[Google Bot 3,329]

10 hours ago, ron obvious said:

AAAARRRGGHHH!!!

UNINTERESTED not DISINTERESTED!!!!

Your being a little to sensitive, Their roughly the same thing as both our opposite to "Interested".

Lets not take this any farther. 🙃

 

[Monty13 2,252]

I don’t think the the lack of effort tag sticks more often than not when it’s labelled on pros.

In Dowell’s case I don’t think it’s a lack of effort, by the time he comes off in most games he’s absolutely blowing out of his **** by the look of him.

He just doesn’t seem to have the natural fitness levels, physical attributes and defensive decision making to be an Emi without the ball. Add that he’s not that quick and I can see why people think he lacks effort but for me it’s just where he is in his game. Some can be coached, fitness could maybe be increased but some of the physical and mental attributes of a Kenny or Buendia without the ball maybe just aren’t there.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm not sure I'd read much into this as in my mind our core midfield will be McLean, Lees Melou and Hayden. Dowell will get his chance and hopefully make a very positive contribution. He needs to mind as he's been here a while and we haven't really seen that consistently for one reason and another.

I do hope you are very wrong Captain, would be absolutely gutted to see that 3 turn out, would confirm we have lost our way as developing a good enough squad won't happen .    None of them can play EPL football, we'd have to replace this lot on promotion which we can't afford to do.    At least Hayden can offer some screening for a while.   Dowell, McLean and Lees-Melou have had their chance, we know what they can all do and sadly, its not enough.   

[hertfordyellow 460]

Dowell for 2 million was a bargain. I thought he was decent in the closing stages of last season and looked like he had a spark about him, albeit not physical enough to boss the game.

He scored 5 goals in 10 starts the season before. Personally think if put in that 10 position with good options around him, he'll get good figures next season.