Michael Bailey Athletic Article

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

Really good, but damming read. Highlights further the absolute need to move on from Webber now. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

One quote that I found very interesting that I don't think has been picked up on is this one:

'There was a feeling Farke did not believe he had a good enough group to stay up, and that the players subconsciously knew that.'

In short, Farke knew that the recruitment last summer wasn't good enough.  

[Commonsense 624]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What a superb article. LOADS of points I pulled out of it above and beyond what has been mentioned. 

1. Lukas Rupp likely to depart
2. Normann signed on wages "not far off" what Andrich wanted
3. Farke wanted just three signings; a marquee centre back, a Skipp replacement DM and a Buendia replacement forward
4. The plan to sign quality over quantity changed when behind the scenes people panicked over Farke's brutal training and feeling injuries would catch them out
5. Club feels they got over the odds for Buendia. 
6. Ajer wasn't signed because only prepared to pay £10m and felt could get him free in Jan
7. Kieran Scott was on gardening leave from start of summer window - led Webber to be more hands on which meant a greater leaning on agents
8. Todd Cantwell failed to respond to every trick in Smith's and Shakey's playbook
9. Current side felt "too quiet". Want to change culture to one where players challenge each other more rather than accepting defeat. 

Really great article which I recommend you read if you can.

So once again Farke was right, but we thought it was better to get rid of him and rely on an ok manager already fired by an the time under performing  Villa side. 
Thanks Webber!!!

[Ian 1,129]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is an inability, Monty. A big one-off transfer fee can be accommodated within the model's finances, but a big wage deal is not, as it were, just for Christmas but for years, and is likely to have a knock-on effect within the squad.

Are you suggesting the signings on that list are so far outside of the range of wages we are paying to other squad members it would cause that level of friction, and not be something the club could prudently factor in to parachute payments?

Clearly the transfer strategy over the summer was to be bolshy and play hard ball, which has obviously backfired unbelievably this season.

[Danke bitte 965]

3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

One quote that I found very interesting that I don't think has been picked up on is this one:

'There was a feeling Farke did not believe he had a good enough group to stay up, and that the players subconsciously knew that.'

In short, Farke knew that the recruitment last summer wasn't good enough.  

Kind of fits into the Smith observation narrative of the “losing mentality”. Absolute damming indictment of Webber’s recruitment tbh. 

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

So once again Farke was right, but we thought it was better to get rid of him and rely on an ok manager already fired by an the time under performing  Villa side. 
Thanks Webber!!!

That’s certainly not a common sense way of looking at it - if DF was let down, you can hardly blame DS for not managing to make a PL side out of not-good-enough players.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

11 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

So once again Farke was right, but we thought it was better to get rid of him and rely on an ok manager already fired by an the time under performing  Villa side. 
Thanks Webber!!!

Suspect Farke made this feeling know, hence him not only being shown the door but in a sly and disrespectful way too. 

[hogesar 9,672]

13 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

One quote that I found very interesting that I don't think has been picked up on is this one:

'There was a feeling Farke did not believe he had a good enough group to stay up, and that the players subconsciously knew that.'

In short, Farke knew that the recruitment last summer wasn't good enough.  

Yep. Unfortunately as head coach you can't show to those under you, I.e your players, that you don't deem them good enough.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

So , in summary , Bailey has given reasons to suggest that the management this season was even worse than I thought . I mean , I thought the results of our recruitment was a bit iffy , but now I know what a disaster the process was . 

I think I might set up my own charity and búgger off up a mountain . Although the ways things are I would expect to take all of the wrong equipment , spend all my money on a bunch of useless Sherpas , and only get 90% of the way up. 

What a fùcking awful season. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Graham Paddons Beard

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

28 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

So once again Farke was right, but we thought it was better to get rid of him and rely on an ok manager already fired by an the time under performing  Villa side. 
Thanks Webber!!!

You should read the article. There's plenty of criticism of Farke within it. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

20 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Suspect Farke made this feeling know, hence him not only being shown the door but in a sly and disrespectful way too. 

That's complete speculation and wrong based on the articles we've seen tonight. Farke lost confidence of Webber because Webber didn't feel Farke was doing enough to turn around the poor form. Nothing to do with him voicing opinions. 

In fact, the article highlights criticisms of Farke for throwing in unfit signings too soon because he wanted to "parade" these new players. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Terminally Yellow

[GJP 79]

23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yep. Unfortunately as head coach you can't show to those under you, I.e your players, that you don't deem them good enough.

Players also know though. Experienced, proven and/or higher quality players will look around and think "He gives the ball away too much" or "He isn't quick enough" or... "He's sh*t".

[Monty13 2,234]

2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What a superb article. LOADS of points I pulled out of it above and beyond what has been mentioned. 

1. Lukas Rupp likely to depart
2. Normann signed on wages "not far off" what Andrich wanted
3. Farke wanted just three signings; a marquee centre back, a Skipp replacement DM and a Buendia replacement forward
4. The plan to sign quality over quantity changed when behind the scenes people panicked over Farke's brutal training and feeling injuries would catch them out
5. Club feels they got over the odds for Buendia. 
6. Ajer wasn't signed because only prepared to pay £10m and felt could get him free in Jan
7. Kieran Scott was on gardening leave from start of summer window - led Webber to be more hands on which meant a greater leaning on agents
8. Todd Cantwell failed to respond to every trick in Smith's and Shakey's playbook
9. Current side felt "too quiet". Want to change culture to one where players challenge each other more rather than accepting defeat. 

Really great article which I recommend you read if you can.

So Farke was right. 

He should have pushed his position because ultimately him excepting the quantity over quality cost him his job.

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Just now, Monty13 said:

So Farke was right. 

He should have pushed his position because ultimately him excepting the quantity over quality cost him his job.

The quality over quantity approach, while clearly what was required, is the opposite approach to the one that is needed by a club so reliant on player trading in order to make up for lack of owner investment. Our whole summer transfer activity was undertaken with ‘future profit potential’ as the number 1 priority rather than what is best for the team. No matter how much noise Farke may have made, he couldn’t fight that basic operating necessity.

[Monty13 2,234]

5 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

The quality over quantity approach, while clearly what was required, is the opposite approach to the one that is needed by a club so reliant on player trading in order to make up for lack of owner investment. Our whole summer transfer activity was undertaken with ‘future profit potential’ as the number 1 priority rather than what is best for the team. No matter how much noise Farke may have made, he couldn’t fight that basic operating necessity.

Perhaps, but doesn’t change my point, accepting it lost him his job.

I don’t see Smith doing the same, going to be an interesting summer.

[AJ 1,220]

So Farke got pushed for knowing the obvious, that we did nothing to replace some pretty large holes in the squad left by departures from our promotion season. I still feel so angry for losing Farke, nothing against Smith but it was very clear it was the personnel and nothing anyone could do about it. At least Farke had a good connection with the players and fans even in our struggles, now I feel like we're just soulless. 

[Move Klose 303]

4 minutes ago, AJ said:

So Farke got pushed for knowing the obvious, that we did nothing to replace some pretty large holes in the squad left by departures from our promotion season. I still feel so angry for losing Farke, nothing against Smith but it was very clear it was the personnel and nothing anyone could do about it. At least Farke had a good connection with the players and fans even in our struggles, now I feel like we're just soulless. 

Would've been interesting to know who Webber was planning on getting when sacking Farke. Webber always talks about have this succession plan, if a player or manager leaves etc. But obviously Smith was still in a job when Farke went. Must've had someone in mind.

[Monty13 2,234]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

One quote that I found very interesting that I don't think has been picked up on is this one:

'There was a feeling Farke did not believe he had a good enough group to stay up, and that the players subconsciously knew that.'

In short, Farke knew that the recruitment last summer wasn't good enough.  

It’s the kiss of death to let your team know that though, whatever business you’re in.

He didn’t believe he had the players to stay up, fair enough, but mentality is a huge thing in any tough endeavour.

When you’re already fighting an uphill battle surrendering the psychological playing field  before you start means any chance of success, however slim, is gone.

[AJ 1,220]

7 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

Would've been interesting to know who Webber was planning on getting when sacking Farke. Webber always talks about have this succession plan, if a player or manager leaves etc. But obviously Smith was still in a job when Farke went. Must've had someone in mind.

I imagine it probably went similar to how Bailey described our transfer window. I can't imagine Dean Smith was anywhere near plan A, B or C, and as you said probably wasn't even on the table at the time Daniel got punted to the curb. Seemed very much a last minute thing when he suddenly became available, and before that they seemed fairly keen on Lampard for God knows what reason. I guess in reality Smith was another safe, low risk and probably cheap option. We have no money, self funded club nice man kinda thing. Can't imagine the bigger European names we were linked with at the time coming in and being too happy with that approach

 

[Chichcan 148]

7 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Thanks for that. 👍

Was there any mention of what Sorensen has to do to get a game? 

Here's a quote from the article 

"Smith and assistant Shakespeare, who had been sacked by Villa a day after Farke got the chop, walked into Norwich and in their first days wondered if they had inherited an academy team. The team were relatively quiet overall, neat on the ball, but lacking a physical edge and short of pace and power. Defeats hurt but were perhaps dismissed a little too easily before the next game came along."

I'm guessing but I imagine Sorensen may come across as described in that paragraph 

They probably feel they need a dominant character physically and mentally in that position?

 

[Jambomo 215]

I’ve begun to think that Bailey knows what what his subscription-based fans want to think and has started writing things to suit them. 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

7 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

That's complete speculation and wrong based on the articles we've seen tonight. Farke lost confidence of Webber because Webber didn't feel Farke was doing enough to turn around the poor form. Nothing to do with him voicing opinions. 

In fact, the article highlights criticisms of Farke for throwing in unfit signings too soon because he wanted to "parade" these new players. 

We'll of course it's speculation on my part, didn’t say otherwise, but I'm not sure how you can say it's incorrect based on last night's articles when they pretty much back up theory.

Farke may well have "paraded" them too soon, or maybe he was simply using the weapons Webber bragged about all summer but then quickly realised he'd been signed blanks again, hence his reluctance to use wee Krankie, which (again admitted speculation) was a big part in his sacking due to the ridiculous nature of the finances Webber agreed on that disastrous deal. 

[Ulfotto 633]

Farke was sacked because his record in the premier league was awful. End of. I love the guy but he had Farkeball which clearly didn’t work in the Premiership or stick 11 men behind the ball.

[Ulfotto 633]

I think article highlights instead that the club essentially we were at the end of an era at the start of the season and they couldn’t or didn’t know how to bridge the gaps in the time available.

I would also draw some parallels with the Worthington premier league season in a weird way that team final hurrah was winning the championship and clearly they didn’t have the will or desire or mentality to go again I feel that’s a bit like what was happened this year.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Ulfotto

[cambridgeshire canary 6,717]

10 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What a superb article. LOADS of points I pulled out of it above and beyond what has been mentioned. 

1. Lukas Rupp likely to depart
2. Normann signed on wages "not far off" what Andrich wanted
3. Farke wanted just three signings; a marquee centre back, a Skipp replacement DM and a Buendia replacement forward
4. The plan to sign quality over quantity changed when behind the scenes people panicked over Farke's brutal training and feeling injuries would catch them out
5. Club feels they got over the odds for Buendia. 
6. Ajer wasn't signed because only prepared to pay £10m and felt could get him free in Jan
7. Kieran Scott was on gardening leave from start of summer window - led Webber to be more hands on which meant a greater leaning on agents
8. Todd Cantwell failed to respond to every trick in Smith's and Shakey's playbook
9. Current side felt "too quiet". Want to change culture to one where players challenge each other more rather than accepting defeat. 

Really great article which I recommend you read if you can.

Would love to hear more about Cantwell.. Beacause the more I hear the more about him from behind the scenes the more hes sounding like he thinks he's far bigger and better than he is

Edited May 1, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[AJ 1,220]

38 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Farke was sacked because his record in the premier league was awful. End of. I love the guy but he had Farkeball which clearly didn’t work in the Premiership or stick 11 men behind the ball.

Smith’s record is virtually no different despite the change in tactics. Changing manager has made zero difference. You can’t make any system work if the players just aren’t good enough. Not replacing Tettey, Skipp and the defensive side of Emi Buendia are just absolutely unforgivable errors, and absolutely nothing to do with Farke. Same for Smith really too, you can’t polish 11 turds by playing them in a slightly different formation. 

[AJ 1,220]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

I’ve begun to think that Bailey knows what what his subscription-based fans want to think and has started writing things to suit them. 

Rubbish, more like unlike the pinkun he doesn’t have to tread carefully and can simply write the truth 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

42 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Farke was sacked because his record in the premier league was awful. End of. I love the guy but he had Farkeball which clearly didn’t work in the Premiership or stick 11 men behind the ball.

Maybe Farkes record may have been better if he'd have been given his 3 players of quality over the 11 dross he got? Something many of us have said for months. 

[komakino 272]

It's a really good piece by Bailey and certainly worth the £1 per month!

The person who comes out of this worst most of all is Webber. All roads in the farce of a season lead to him. 

Farke knowing - that many fans also realised during the season - that the recruitment was not good enough it not a good situation for the coach to be in. 

I think I've suggested on here before that Farke should have resigned prior to this season and based on the recruitment - and one assumes lack of input - he would have had justification. 

Farke didn't hold the cards and that was his downfall. Smith cannot let that scenario to happen again. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by komakino

[AJ 1,220]

Just now, komakino said:

It's a really good piece by Bailey and certainly worth the £1 per month!

The person who comes out of this worst most of all is Webber. All roads is the farce of a season lead to him. 

Farke knowing - that many fans also realised during the season - that the recruitment was not good enough it not a good situation for the coach to be in. 

I think I've suggested on here before that Farke should have resigned prior to this season and based on the recruitment - and one assumes lack of input - he would have had justification. 

Farke didn't hold the cards and that was his downfall. Smith cannot let that scenario to happen again. 

I’m not sure about resigning, firstly he clearly loved it here and his special relationship with the fans. Secondly, he’d won two trophies in 4 years here, knowing even if we got relegated he’d probably stand a good chance of doing it again. Yes, his PL record was poor but both times he was given a completely inadequate squad. Letting your two best defensive players go in the summer and not replacing them was our biggest failure this season, and none of it was Daniels fault and I still feel angry about the way he was treated. A payout was the least he deserved. 
 

I get your point though, but I guess he knew the situation was what it was and had accepted that, and at times in fairness it had delivered in finding some gems in Emi, Vrancic etc. just not premier league quality ones