McLean

[astro 360]

23 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

McLean and PLM are both no-frills hard working midfielders. Neither are particularly great passers though, which is probably why Smith asks he back four to play long balls down the channels so often. Neither score that often either.

Norman and Rupp will probably replace both once fully fit again.

PLM played a couple of fantastic, long, cross-field passes that were right on the money - I can’t see where you say he is an average passer. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

37 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

McLean and PLM are both no-frills hard working midfielders. Neither are particularly great passers though, which is probably why Smith asks he back four to play long balls down the channels so often. Neither score that often either.

Norman and Rupp will probably replace both once fully fit again.

Dunno, I think Rupp's a pretty underrated sort and usually have been one of his defenders on here, but he doesn't get past PLM and he's not got the same physicality of either McLean or PLM.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

He twice played suicidal passes in and around our own box that could have cost us goals so I'm not sure I'd be singing his praises. 

I was going to make the same point, has a tendency to try to be clever (and giving the ball away) rather than doing the simple things well........

[The Bristol Nest 513]

28 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I was going to make the same point, has a tendency to try to be clever (and giving the ball away) rather than doing the simple things well........

I understand that point. Those things stand out whereas the donkey work gets missed imo. 

[Indy 3,300]

13 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

I understand that point. Those things stand out whereas the donkey work gets missed imo. 

It did last night, like I keep saying, he had Gallagher all night, he nicked the ball a couple times off him, got free kicks and stopped him from playing his game in front of our defence. I don’t often praise McLean but he was obviously given that job to nullify Gallagher and did that.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

4 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Gallagher? Who's that? Oh, the failed BTEC clone of Cantwell that guy. Yeah, kept him pretty quiet

Clone in the sense he has long hair? Literally in no other way is he like Cantwell, because he is actually good 

[East Rider 551]

46 minutes ago, Indy said:

It did last night, like I keep saying, he had Gallagher all night, he nicked the ball a couple times off him, got free kicks and stopped him from playing his game in front of our defence. I don’t often praise McLean but he was obviously given that job to nullify Gallagher and did that.

Spot on, especially first half. He did an excellent job on a top player. Second half they seemed to spread the responsibility a bit but there is no doubt, Kenny did a good job on him

 

[Petriix 2,835]

Let's be clear: McLean did a good job of covering Gallagher when we didn't have the ball. That's one part of his role.

He had 38 touches of the ball, attempted 27 passes and gave the ball away 12 times. Just 55% pass accuracy.  Those are damning statistics for a central midfielder.

In contrast PLM achieved 77% accuracy from 31 passes, losing possession 7 times. That's not great, but nowhere near as bad as McLean.

I know our standards are low, but describing McLean as "having a good game" is pretty generous.

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

McClean's ok at Premier League level. A bit hot and cold, sometimes looks the part, sometimes ineffective.

Perhaps that one player sums up the Premier League credentials of the club as a whole. Nearly player, nearly club.

He would even do a job at the likes of Palace, but a Hughes is better.

Continually going around in ever decreasing circles diagnosing the player's worth achieves little. He's there, he's what we are and, whilst our squad might contain better options for some, they are not significantly better options.

More productive would be to assess Kenny McClean's place should we go down again this season. 

We seem to have a goldmine of youth waiting in the wings. Should we approach that inevitable alternating season in the Chumps with an emphasis on these younger players, whilst discarding some of the old guard, or should we follow the safer route of same as. 

I suppose it will be compromise, but Kenny would still fetch a bit in the market. I wouldn't shed a tear, but he would be a loss. The funds wouldn't.

There are a few others in this category as well, but (god forbid) not Pukki.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

McLean is a very good Champs player and a back-up PL player. He works hard and tries to help others with their positioning with his famous arm-waving antics. IMO his passing/decision-making in possession is one of his weaker suits, as is his tackling. I do maintain he doesn't fit well with Lees-Melou, who essentially looks like a better version of him.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

The issue here is that his level is so bad usually, even in a game where we don't win, at home, against a mid-table team, who missed a penalty, had all the possession and where he nearly gave away two soft goals is because he wasn't as bad as he usually is people are queueing up to tell us that he had a great game. He was 7 out of 10 at the absolute most and that is being generous.

Another mark of how poor he is, is that in four seasons playing nearly every game I don't think I can recall him being MOTM once.

[hogesar 9,674]

Mclean and PLM both had decent games despite the fact we knew we'd be outnumbered in midfield and therefore not look to control possession of the ball. Everyone was guilty of some poor passing which meant we had even less of the ball than intended, them two included. 

Mclean was the best midfielder on the pitch against Wolves though, so it was understandable that he started this one.

[Orly 277]

19 hours ago, astro said:

PLM played a couple of fantastic, long, cross-field passes that were right on the money - I can’t see where you say he is an average passer. 

His long range passing is Vrancic-esque and is often excellent.  His short - medium range passing is also Vrancic-esque and not so great.  Suspect it's because his legs are 3.5 metres long.

 

[king canary 7,607]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Mclean and PLM both had decent games despite the fact we knew we'd be outnumbered in midfield and therefore not look to control possession of the ball. Everyone was guilty of some poor passing which meant we had even less of the ball than intended, them two included. 

Mclean was the best midfielder on the pitch against Wolves though, so it was understandable that he started this one.

Also we're missing Sorenson, Rupp and Normann isn't fit enough to start so of course he's starting and I imagine he'll start on Saturday too. 

I think @TheGunnShow has it spot on- he shouldn't be starting week in week out but he's a solid squad player.

[shefcanary 2,409]

Given his role against Palarse and his man marking Gallagher, who do you think he should man mark tomorrow, do you think he can do a job on De Bruyne (I'd rather he wasn't starting but needs must)?

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Given his role against Palarse and his man marking Gallagher, who do you think he should man mark tomorrow, do you think he can do a job on De Bruyne (I'd rather he wasn't starting but needs must)?

Top bantz.

[damn that Ralph Coates! 47]

if Deano and Shakey think McLean is undroppable, he must be blooming awesome in training, and we can't argue with them as we don't watch that

[Branston Pickle 3,659]

On 11/02/2022 at 08:05, Petriix said:

Let's be clear: McLean did a good job of covering Gallagher when we didn't have the ball. That's one part of his role.

He had 38 touches of the ball, attempted 27 passes and gave the ball away 12 times. Just 55% pass accuracy.  Those are damning statistics for a central midfielder.

In contrast PLM achieved 77% accuracy from 31 passes, losing possession 7 times. That's not great, but nowhere near as bad as McLean.

I know our standards are low, but describing McLean as "having a good game" is pretty generous.

Stats can mislead, though - there’s no distinction between sideways/backwards passes, so you could have 100% pass completion and been a complete waste of space.  Midfielders do an all round job, there’s far more to it than just one thing and you have to look at it in the round.  

I think with McLean we have a number of supporters who he’ll never win round, and managers who consistently pick him because they know what job he’s doing will continually be berated for it.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Stats can mislead, though - there’s no distinction between sideways/backwards passes, so you could have 100% pass completion and been a complete waste of space.  Midfielders do an all round job, there’s far more to it than just one thing and you have to look at it in the round.   I think with McLean we have a number of supporters who he’ll never win round. 

Agree with the last bit, the comment that he's consistently poor was hilarious considering he's been a valuable member of two Championship-winning sides. He's simply a victim of the big chasm between the Champs and the Premier League, and he's one of many in our ranks who is caught twixt and between in a reasonably well-functioning side.

He also has suffered from a slight lack of balance. I thought he was good last season as Skipp behind him meant he could indulge his workaholic tendencies further up the field even if he's not a particularly creative midfielder when he gets it. Whilst I don't rate his tackling too much and generally think his defensive game in his own half is a weak link, he's good at putting a press on and upsetting a deeper-lying playmaker (as per his job on Gallagher last time out). That needs another player in the middle who can also put a press on, hence Lees-Melou. Rupp's not bad at it either as he has a good turn of pace and is alert to what happens around him, just physically a lot smaller.

[Yellow Wal 314]

22 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

The issue here is that his level is so bad usually, even in a game where we don't win, at home, against a mid-table team, who missed a penalty, had all the possession and where he nearly gave away two soft goals is because he wasn't as bad as he usually is people are queueing up to tell us that he had a great game. He was 7 out of 10 at the absolute most and that is being generous.

Another mark of how poor he is, is that in four seasons playing nearly every game I don't think I can recall him being MOTM once.

'He wasn't as bad as he usually is'.

The fact that you point out that 'in four seasons playing nearly every game', should tell you something.

During that time we have had numerous midfielders to pick from, as we have now. We have brought new ones in but still McLean keeps in the team. He wasn't just Farke's favourite because we see our new manager picking him on a regular basis as well.

He is a bread and butter player, one who just gets on with his job, he rarely shines but is never as bad as some people want to make out and is valued by the managers who pick him.

Now who shall we pick next as number one scapegoat? I remember not so long ago it was Grant Hanley, that also showed the judgement of the managers was far above that of some supporters.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Yellow Wal
adjusted layout

[Petriix 2,835]

21 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Stats can mislead, though - there’s no distinction between sideways/backwards passes, so you could have 100% pass completion and been a complete waste of space.  Midfielders do an all round job, there’s far more to it than just one thing and you have to look at it in the round.  

I think with McLean we have a number of supporters who he’ll never win round, and managers who consistently pick him because they know what job he’s doing will continually be berated for it.

While I agree that a high pass completion rate is not necessarily indicative of a good performance, a low percentage is almost always a sign of bad game. For a central midfielder to only complete 15 successful passes while giving the ball away 12 times is in the realms of 'shockingly bad' and there's no plausible way of dressing that up to look better.

Kenny wasn't exactly a top class Championship player. He was a real liability at times. He clearly does a job, but we really needed to upgrade that area in the summer. His continued incumbency shows the depth of our recruitment problems.

You can argue that it's more symptomatic of our current (pragmatic) style. But I'm extremely disappointed to see us gifting possession away so lightly and frequently. It's hard on the eye and painful to watch in contrast to the scintillating play we have seen in recent years. 

I am confident that, if we had a bit more quality in central midfield, we would find it far easier to build attacks and get on the front foot. It's hard not to lay the blame at the feet of the players currently in those positions. 

[hogesar 9,674]

Just now, Petriix said:

 

You can argue that it's more symptomatic of our current (pragmatic) style. But I'm extremely disappointed to see us gifting possession away so lightly and frequently. It's hard on the eye and painful to watch in contrast to the scintillating play we have seen in recent years. 

Which Kenny was part of.

[BobLoz3 492]

On 10/02/2022 at 16:46, Pyro Pete said:

McLean and PLM are both no-frills hard working midfielders. Neither are particularly great passers though, which is probably why Smith asks he back four to play long balls down the channels so often. Neither score that often either.

Norman and Rupp will probably replace both once fully fit again.

PLM played two very good balls to Rashica, one of which set up that Pukki chance. But I agree that Normann will likely come in for him soon.

McLean was ok, decent out of possession but not so great with it. Worked very hard, though, and that's what we need in this midfield. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

1 hour ago, Yellow Wal said:

'He wasn't as bad as he usually is'.

The fact that you point out that 'in four seasons playing nearly every game', should tell you something.

During that time we have had numerous midfielders to pick from, as we have now. We have brought new ones in but still McLean keeps in the team. He wasn't just Farke's favourite because we see our new manager picking him on a regular basis as well.

He is a bread and butter player, one who just gets on with his job, he rarely shines but is never as bad as some people want to make out and is valued by the managers who pick him.

Now who shall we pick next as number one scapegoat? I remember not so long ago it was Grant Hanley, that also showed the judgement of the managers was far above that of some supporters.

I like Hanley. Always have.

Ah, the old "you know better than XYZ manager do you?" argument. If we all subscribe to that then nobody should ever have an opinion on anything, ever. Football, politics, cricket, financial products, beer... the list is endless. Unless you are proven to have successfully worked in an industry for several years DO NOT voice an opinion on it, especially on a forum to discuss that very topic. 

And by the way, it's not scapegoating if you've consistently said something and it being prior to anything going wrong. Check out my thread at the start of the season. I just think he's crap. Have from day one.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

On 10/02/2022 at 15:25, Worthy Nigelton said:

Normann in for McLean asap.

McLean is to Normann what Andrew Ridgeley is to George Michael...

[damn that Ralph Coates! 47]

37 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

McLean is to Normann what Andrew Ridgeley is to George Michael...

I know Normann was rusty, but I didn't see any signs of rigor mortis