Time for Webber to go?!

[yellow_belly 226]

Asking for a friend.

 

 

 

(…definitely time for the Stowmarket 2 and Nepotism Tom to go!)

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

It's a yes from me, to Webber anyway.

As far as the owners are concerned it's entirely up to them - TBH I'm amazed they are still prepared to take the grief they do but it would be another retrograde step for the club, and almost certainly the end of being a 'community' club, if they do go.

[Canary Jedi 590]

Not yet.

Need to see how the Smith and Shakey strategy plays out plus see what can be done in the Jan transfer window (if anything).

Also, if he did go, then who do you suggest replaces him and does it mean a change of approach?

With the current level of investment I can’t see Webber leaving improving the situation. We either need a run in the top flight or  some significant investment. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

Can’t see what difference it would make, it wasn’t Webbers fault entirely though he had a stinker of a window. But ultimately price per player was way below the necessary level and wages a division lower. So, for example, we had to sign a premiership striker for under 10 million with champs wages- we see what that buys you. Sargent , 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

Not yet. Webber, Adams, Smith and Shakey have to stay. If we lose them, next season could be as messy as this one. 

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

As irritating as the football this season has been, the improved financial position of the club, the considerable improvement in training facilities and indeed quality of scapegoat (hell, McLean and Rupp are often scapegoats and one's won the Champs twice, the other once) we have been able to acquire over the last four years has been pretty impressive.

I don't wish to criticise fellow fans here, but accept this next bit could readily be seen as such: I do think we're a bit prone as football fans in general to hyper-focus on recent results and less on overall trends. To some extent those surges of emotion are what sport is all about, but sometimes they're noise rather than insight.

We've produced a couple of seasons of really enjoyable football on a smaller budget than a fair proportion of fellow Championship sides, whilst selling our best players and making the club more financially resilient. We've also done that in the teeth of, and with the financial repercussions of a grim pandemic, one of the biggest external challenges I can remember in years. And we've done it whilst been enthralled with the stuff Farke's teams gave us, for the most part.

So, respectfully, it's a no from me.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Look where we were before he came in

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Can’t see what difference it would make, it wasn’t Webbers fault entirely though he had a stinker of a window. But ultimately price per player was way below the necessary level and wages a division lower. So, for example, we had to sign a premiership striker for under 10 million with champs wages- we see what that buys you. Sargent , 

Yes but we wouldn't have had to spend under £10m on a striker if we hadn't spent £8m on a keeper we didn't need, for example.

And more to the point what happened to our defensive midfielder? We spent £60m and what exactly has that delivered in terms of improving the squad because this team looks weaker than last season's to me.

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

I'd like to say it depends what he does in this transfer window but at the end of the day he isn't going to sack himself and the rather spineless BOD certainly won't.

I honestly feel we need a fresh pair of eyes on this. He's done a superb job but this latest selection of players are truly appalling from the largest transfer budget we've ever had. Like Farke he cannot be rewarded for his failure.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

Definite no from me.    We're in a much better position and the project isn't over!    Plenty of lessons to be learned, fingers crossed they learn them.   

The major one being the need for suitable CDM's which will oddly enough make us a more offensive outfit. 

OTBC

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

14 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes but we wouldn't have had to spend under £10m on a striker if we hadn't spent £8m on a keeper we didn't need, for example.

And more to the point what happened to our defensive midfielder? We spent £60m and what exactly has that delivered in terms of improving the squad because this team looks weaker than last season's to me.

We did though. Because to spend more would come with high wages attached which we won’t pay- 

[Branston Pickle 3,706]

13 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes but we wouldn't have had to spend under £10m on a striker if we hadn't spent £8m on a keeper we didn't need, for example.

And more to the point what happened to our defensive midfielder? We spent £60m and what exactly has that delivered in terms of improving the squad because this team looks weaker than last season's to me.

That’s not necessarily correct, though, is it, re: the keeper - are you really, honestly, saying we didn’t need one?  Maybe not Gunn, but we needed someone.

It was a strange summer Window, though - “quality over quantity” was the mantra that didn’t quite work out.

[Orly 277]

25 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

As irritating as the football this season has been, the improved financial position of the club, the considerable improvement in training facilities and indeed quality of scapegoat (hell, McLean and Rupp are often scapegoats and one's won the Champs twice, the other once) we have been able to acquire over the last four years has been pretty impressive.

I don't wish to criticise fellow fans here, but accept this next bit could readily be seen as such: I do think we're a bit prone as football fans in general to hyper-focus on recent results and less on overall trends. To some extent those surges of emotion are what sport is all about, but sometimes they're noise rather than insight.

We've produced a couple of seasons of really enjoyable football on a smaller budget than a fair proportion of fellow Championship sides, whilst selling our best players and making the club more financially resilient. We've also done that in the teeth of, and with the financial repercussions of a grim pandemic, one of the biggest external challenges I can remember in years. And we've done it whilst been enthralled with the stuff Farke's teams gave us, for the most part.

So, respectfully, it's a no from me.

I think Webber should go - and I have my criticisms of Delia & Co too, however, I'm very conscious of the fact that however badly it's going this season, you only need to look around at similar sized clubs to see that it could have been a lot worse over the last 10 years.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

5 minutes ago, Orly said:

I think Webber should go - and I have my criticisms of Delia & Co too, however, I'm very conscious of the fact that however badly it's going this season, you only need to look around at similar sized clubs to see that it could have been a lot worse over the last 10 years.

I'd actually be inclined to say our concerns at Delia & Co are a shade misplaced, but probably not for the reasons many suggest on here.

Personally, I'd like to see Norwich acting as a leading, respected club accepting that this current financial arms race, which is basically what the top half of the Premier League basically is, is not conducive to the sport we like in the long-term. And I'd prefer us as a group of fans to argue more for widespread adoption of the German ownership model and of potential salary caps in the top flight to help re-anchor clubs more in their local communities whilst also providing greater stringency to checks and help safeguard their existence. In many ways, our improvement in our financial situation despite pandemics shows that to a considerable extent, prudent financial management and decent football can go hand-in-hand, just not at the very top level here. If we were suddenly to get a hypothetical ultra-wealthy owner willing to burn millions over millions without expecting too much of a return, wouldn't we also be playing our part in such an arms race?

I'd also say this is another reason why there's so much player power for better players. They can easily find a wealthier club to rinse. I don't blame them either, we'd all do that in their position in a career that is relatively short.

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

35 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s not necessarily correct, though, is it, re: the keeper - are you really, honestly, saying we didn’t need one?  Maybe not Gunn, but we needed someone.

It was a strange summer Window, though - “quality over quantity” was the mantra that didn’t quite work out.

IMO we didn't need another keeper, or at least nowhere nearly as badly as we needed a CDM and second quality striker.

If the mantra was supposed to be 'quality over quantity' (which it definitely ought to have been) I think we actually did the complete opposite - brought in a lot of new players who haven't upped the quality at all (Normann perhaps the exception but he arrived extremely late and when we had already suffered a string of defaeats).

Seems to me that Webber repeated Worthington's mistakes on promotion in prioritising quantity at the expense of quality.

[crab man 164]

Webber to stay, Stowmarket 2 need to depart asap. 

[WD40 720]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Look where we were before he came in

We had a much better squad before Webber came in. What’s your point?

[yellow_belly 226]

Well at least Webber ‘signed up’ the Soccerbot 360. That has really improved us. 
 

I would love to watch Sargent and co showing off their excellent ‘touch’! 😂

[Mengo 825]

9 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Well at least Webber ‘signed up’ the Soccerbot 360. That has really improved us. 
 

I would love to watch Sargent and co showing off their excellent ‘touch’! 😂

Football is a game of passion, and part of every fan would die if the game were reduced to a soulless set of calculations. But equally, any club or manager that denies the power of data are placing themselves at an enormous disadvantage. In one sense, this could be a positive development: football has historically been dominated by the teams with the fattest wallets; in the age of analytics, clubs should be rewarded for innovating and there is a greater motivation for cash-strapped teams to lead the way. Brains can trump financial brawn. Though, it should be noted that right now Manchester City are leading the field in both categories.

Our scouts are 🤓 geeks . DATA is one thing but it's the only thing that is driving our recruitment of players. I've said many times we don't have footballers scouting. How can this possibly be correct. The human element for knowing a good prospect should be down to people who know a good player when they see one over and over again. Not a final decision on a f***ing app

 

 

 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

31 minutes ago, WD40 said:

We had a much better squad before Webber came in. What’s your point?

Yeah we were steam rolling the championship. We were financially brilliant too. The training ground was amazing too. Gosh, I have no point…

[Branston Pickle 3,706]

50 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

IMO we didn't need another keeper, or at least nowhere nearly as badly as we needed a CDM and second quality striker.

If the mantra was supposed to be 'quality over quantity' (which it definitely ought to have been) I think we actually did the complete opposite - brought in a lot of new players who haven't upped the quality at all (Normann perhaps the exception but he arrived extremely late and when we had already suffered a string of defaeats).

Seems to me that Webber repeated Worthington's mistakes on promotion in prioritising quantity at the expense of quality.

We didn’t need a keeper?  You’d have been happy sticking with what we had?? Crikey.

But yes, that’s my point re: quality over quantity - it was what was said at the time, but we ended up bringing in more than I expected (9, including loans but not including Gibson-Dimi).  I hoped for fewer better guys to be able to pretty much slip into PL mode, but we’ve ended up with a bit of a mixed bag.  Quite why we had the push to get Tzolis here (pushing it through so he didn’t play a leg of the euros for PAOK) but then barely play him was odd… not that he’s particularly done much to suggest he should be playing more.  It is/was a strange mixed bag.

[Uncle Fred 526]

I think yes and I use 2 words to back up my argument 

Josh Sargent

[Wilson 62]

Webber won’t be sacked. He’s Delia’s modern day Rasputin.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

9 hours ago, Mengo said:

Football is a game of passion, and part of every fan would die if the game were reduced to a soulless set of calculations. But equally, any club or manager that denies the power of data are placing themselves at an enormous disadvantage. In one sense, this could be a positive development: football has historically been dominated by the teams with the fattest wallets; in the age of analytics, clubs should be rewarded for innovating and there is a greater motivation for cash-strapped teams to lead the way. Brains can trump financial brawn. Though, it should be noted that right now Manchester City are leading the field in both categories.

Our scouts are 🤓 geeks . DATA is one thing but it's the only thing that is driving our recruitment of players. I've said many times we don't have footballers scouting. How can this possibly be correct. The human element for knowing a good prospect should be down to people who know a good player when they see one over and over again. Not a final decision on a f***ing app

 

 

 

Hugill being a classic example!    Even then, hard to believe he had attractive ’numbers’ in the first place.   

[Danke bitte 967]

11 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Definite no from me.    We're in a much better position and the project isn't over!    Plenty of lessons to be learned, fingers crossed they learn them.   

The major one being the need for suitable CDM's which will oddly enough make us a more offensive outfit. 

OTBC

What worries me, is that no lessons have been learned from last time - we needed a more solid midfield. We didn’t get one. We needed support for Pukki, we didn’t get any. And Webber’s insistence on quality over quantity didn’t ring true either.

I think Webber blows a lot of hot air, but equally he’s still very young and learning on the job too. 

Im just struggling to understand why a CDM wasn’t rubber stamped before the end of last season, sacked off Skipp and brought one in from elsewhere and why Idah was touted as Pukki’s successor when he had little game time last season to back up that chat. It’s baffling.

[WD40 720]

9 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Yeah we were steam rolling the championship. We were financially brilliant too. The training ground was amazing too. Gosh, I have no point…

Training ground paid for by the fans. Books were balanced by selling assets that were purchased before his time. Any old duffer can sell off assets, look at the government. Now after Webber has spunked the money up the wall we’re financially unable to dip into transfer market again without sales - it’s the same position. 

[TIL 1010 4,812]

Webber The Fraud should go. Believes his own hype and the only thing that he has transformed is the bricks and mortor at Colney and that was done with fans money.

Edited January 10, 2022 by TIL 1010

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

1 hour ago, WD40 said:

Training ground paid for by the fans. Books were balanced by selling assets that were purchased before his time. Any old duffer can sell off assets, look at the government. Now after Webber has spunked the money up the wall we’re financially unable to dip into transfer market again without sales - it’s the same position. 

The fans were paid back, with extras! We are currently debt free too. When he came in we were on the brink of administration. The assets that were sold were sold at prices we had never seen before! He hasn’t “spunked the money”, he has had to build a squad with a poor amount of money, given we had to sell our best player to fund the majority of it!

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

Put another way- until we solve the issue of premiership level investment - changing Webber is just rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic. 
perhaps we keep him to profess the club- which he has been good at- but look for a better chief scout to take responsibility for transfers? 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

I'm torn on Webber. I don't like someof the stuff he says or the way he kept us hanging over his contract and what that contract might say. I worry about the lack of checks and balances on what he and Zoe are doing at the club and think they have too much unfettered control at present. I think he has messed up hugely with the recruitment this year and the overlooking of what we needed in midfield in particular is so staggeringly inept I find it hard to comprehend.

Having said all that, I am very nervous about what would follow him. Adams fills me with no confidence whatsoever. Webber does at least generally dsiplay a decent level of common sense and pragmatism and I think that if we go down he may well be the best person to oversee recruitment for the championship. 

So in this instance it may be a case of "careful what you wish for".