Lockdown

[1902 1,167]

6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I hope they are not being prioritised over vaccinated and it means there are fewer vaccinated patients requiring ICU.

They won't be, but neither will it be the other way around. Which is as it should be. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Nope. He’s an award winning analyst for the office of National statistics that has taken to fact checking the government’s wild claims 

So plenty of experience to manipulate statistics to suit his own end, wouldn't you agree?

There exists a significant data sample that shows for a time this year 80% of Covid ICU patients were not double-jabbed. An award-winning data analyst would know this if a simpleton like me could find it out. Why did he ignore that and focus on a 154 patient data set? And as an analyst, why hasn't he explained why that 154 person data set shouldn't be taken seriously? As the Head of a Department at ONS, he would have countless times taken relatively miniscule percentage data sets and extrapolated the findings on a nationwide basis. Why is he upset that Javid has done it here, particularly when there exists other data samples that supports the claim?

Dig deeper, even moreso when you agree with what you're reading.

[Virtual reality 711]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

So plenty of experience to manipulate statistics to suit his own end, wouldn't you agree?

There exists a significant data sample that shows for a time this year 80% of Covid ICU patients were not double-jabbed. An award-winning data analyst would know this if a simpleton like me could find it out. Why did he ignore that and focus on a 154 patient data set? And as an analyst, why hasn't he explained why that 154 person data set shouldn't be taken seriously? As the Head of a Department at ONS, he would have countless times taken relatively miniscule percentage data sets and extrapolated the findings on a nationwide basis. Why is he upset that Javid has done it here, particularly when there exists other data samples that supports the claim?

Dig deeper, even moreso when you agree with what you're reading.

There’s a lot of speculation there 

[Coneys Knee 959]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

So plenty of experience to manipulate statistics to suit his own end, wouldn't you agree?

I agree. I wouldn’t even know where to begin if I needed to find reliable news and information if I’m honest. Lies and spin is what the world appears to be governed by. Hence why I choose to listen to very little of it, keep my head down, and live my live as well as I can. 

[TIL 1010 4,748]

I cannot wait for The Real Buh to log in and take some of you to task. 😜

[Capt. Pants 4,241]

26 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Get your jab!

 

Sorry, need a lockdow now.

 

Get your second and third jab!

 

Sorry, need a lockdown now.

 

When will it end? By the fifth and six jab? the tenth jab?

Never. Covid will be here for the rest of your life.

But then so will influenza.

[Capt. Pants 4,241]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

I cannot wait for The Real Buh to log in and take some of you to task. 😜

He's in the vaccine queue.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

48 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And the figures suggest that over 70% of Covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated.

Why bother to treat them. if they have made the choice to risk getting covid rather than vaccinated then let them also accept that they won't be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions.

[Virtual reality 711]

11 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why bother to treat them. if they have made the choice to risk getting covid rather than vaccinated then let them also accept that they won't be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions.

Why bother to treat a patient who has chosen to eat themselves into an obese state. If they have made the choice not to put the cake down then let them accept that they won’t be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions….. And 77% of severe covid admissions are obese.  
can you see how easy this is? Now rinse and repeat for smoking, alcohol and anything else where people make bad choices about their health 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Virtual reality

[Yobocop 1,099]

13 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Never. Covid will be here for the rest of your life.

But then so will influenza.

In genetical terms the virus is still very new and as of yet scientists haven’t got a handle on how it behaves 

I’m with you once they get a handle on it then things will return to relative normality as they do with the flu jab the make up of it is quite often modified to suit the needs of combating the virus 

i know what CC is saying as it seems like a perpetual spiral but things will improve, as Eric and Ernie once said ‘Bring me sunshine’ 

 

[RobJames 881]

26 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I hope they are not being prioritised over vaccinated and it means there are fewer vaccinated patients requiring ICU.

I think you will find that clinical priority comes first. Nice conspiracy theory. If you don't bother to think. That is.

[Nuff Said 5,142]

26 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Nope. He’s an award winning analyst for the office of National statistics that has taken to fact checking the government’s wild claims 

He *was* an award winning analyst for the ONS, now he’s a media pundit with a clear anti-lockdown, vaccine-sceptic stance. Which coincidentally will be the sort of contrarian views that will get him media appearances. Given his background, he’s not going to be posting untruths, however he has a clear agenda.

[1902 1,167]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why bother to treat them. if they have made the choice to risk getting covid rather than vaccinated then let them also accept that they won't be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions.

I cut my hand on a circular saw once because I was distracted by a test match whilst cutting boards. Needed stitches. 

We all do stupid things and make bad decisions. Many of us will need NHS treatment when we do.

I have left the UK now, but before I did I paid taxes in the full knowledge that none of us make perfect decisions about our health and we all should shoulder some of that burden as part of a social compact. 

[1902 1,167]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

He *was* an award winning analyst for the ONS, now he’s a media pundit with a clear anti-lockdown, vaccine-sceptic stance. Which coincidentally will be the sort of contrarian views that will get him media appearances. Given his background, he’s not going to be posting untruths, however he has a clear agenda.

This is an interesting point in general about anti vaccination personalities, nobody seems to consider how much of a personal stake they have in deriding vaccines. So many of them are 'wellness experts' with products to sell or journalists paid by fringe publications who go on endlessly about big pharma just being in it for profit. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yeah Africa a great place to go.

It's a fascinating  Continent....ever been Pantso?

[Herman 9,777]

35 minutes ago, RobJames said:

Thereon lies the problem. The stupid are demanding that everything stays open. Ignoring that they will be no staff to keep things open. Annoying when it's your local. Frightening when it's your local hospital.

Lewis Goodall is making a list of the places that are now shutting because of the reasons you and Jambomo state.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Why bother to treat a patient who has chosen to eat themselves into an obese state. If they have made the choice not to put the cake down then let them accept that they won’t be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions….. And 77% of severe covid admissions are obese.  
can you see how easy this is? 

Yep, I agree about the cake eaters, too. I'm a great believer in free will and if people wish not to get vaccinated or eat cake then that's their free choice. But making a choice also means accepting consequences. And if you know that eating that cake or catching the corona virus increases the risk of diabetes or dying then those consequences are on you.

[Virtual reality 711]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yep, I agree about the cake eaters, too. I'm a great believer in free will and if people wish not to get vaccinated or eat cake then that's their free choice. But making a choice also means accepting consequences. And if you know that eating that cake or catching the corona virus increases the risk of diabetes or dying then those consequences are on you.

That’s fair enough then. Can’t argue with that as long as you are consistent in your opinion 

[Nuff Said 5,142]

12 minutes ago, 1902 said:

I cut my hand on a circular saw once because I was distracted by a test match whilst cutting boards. Needed stitches. 

We all do stupid things and make bad decisions. Many of us will need NHS treatment when we do.

I have left the UK now, but before I did I paid taxes in the full knowledge that none of us make perfect decisions about our health and we all should shoulder some of that burden as part of a social compact. 

Exactly. Many of those who smoke will have been brought up by carers who either didn’t care enough, didn’t have the facts themselves or didn’t have the persuasive power (this one must be me and my wife as our daughter smokes. Although we are both ex-smokers too 😳). Many/most obese people will overeat as a response to some trigger rather than a “**** it, I don’t care” attitude. Simplistic reasoning in examples like this just doesn’t work.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Nuff Said

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

9 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Why bother to treat a patient who has chosen to eat themselves into an obese state. If they have made the choice not to put the cake down then let them accept that they won’t be treated under the NHS either. If they get sick let them make their own health provisions….. And 77% of severe covid admissions are obese.  
can you see how easy this is? Now rinse and repeat for smoking, alcohol and anything else where people make bad choices about their health 

My sister in law voiced the same,  short term reactionary knee here opinion. I asked her about Drinkers, smokers, people who drive 5 mph over the limit and have an accident,  people who take part in any sport where injury is possible etc etc. She had to admit that she hadn't thought it through.

Polarisation  will destroy the Nation  .

 

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

9 minutes ago, 1902 said:

I cut my hand on a circular saw once because I was distracted by a test match whilst cutting boards. Needed stitches. 

We all do stupid things and make bad decisions. Many of us will need NHS treatment when we do.

I have left the UK now, but before I did I paid taxes in the full knowledge that none of us make perfect decisions about our health and we all should shoulder some of that burden as part of a social compact. 

The difference is that you didn't deliberately set out to self-harm. As with motor accidents. But an overweight person in a pre-diabetic condition, or someone refusing the vaccine will definitely self-harm if they continue the current situation.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Exactly. Many of those who smoke will have been brought up by carers who either didn’t care enough, didn’t have the or didn’t have the persuasive power (this one must be me and my wife as our daughter smokes. Although we are both ex-smokers too 😳). Many/most obese people will overeat as a response to some trigger rather than a “**** it, I don’t care” attitude. Simplistic reasoning in examples like this just doesn’t work.

If you are a smoker or engaged in dangerous activities such as certain sports then you should at the very least be paying higher NI contributions with those funds going to the NHS

[Nuff Said 5,142]

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

The difference is that you didn't deliberately set out to self-harm. As with motor accidents. But an overweight person in a pre-diabetic condition, or someone refusing the vaccine will definitely self-harm if they continue the current situation.

Like I said, simplistic reasoning. What about attempted suicides? Someone who forgot to take a prescription and became ill? Obese children?

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

The difference is that you didn't deliberately set out to self-harm. As with motor accidents. But an overweight person in a pre-diabetic condition, or someone refusing the vaccine will definitely self-harm if they continue the current situation.

I disagree,  which will throw @Bill into a frenzy.... as we are apparently  , the same person. 

Are you saying self harmers shouldn't be treated ? What about the direct self hammers? You know, the classic Goth Teen that cuts themselves? Leave them to bleed to death?

Doctors have an  obligation  to treat the sick, if that is eroded , we're all in the shoite  

[1902 1,167]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

The difference is that you didn't deliberately set out to self-harm. As with motor accidents. But an overweight person in a pre-diabetic condition, or someone refusing the vaccine will definitely self-harm if they continue the current situation.

I understand your view, though i can't agree with it especially in this case. The issue with anti-vaxxers is that they believe they are protecting their health, by and large because they are misinformed by a seductive narrative. They believe that they are being responsible. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

5 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

If you are a smoker or engaged in dangerous activities such as certain sports then you should at the very least be paying higher NI contributions with those funds going to the NHS

Smokers pay massive taxes on ciggies..... ever wondered why? Not to discourage  them, thats for sure.  

Most dangerous activities  demand a high level of insurance. 

I think you haven't really thought about this, civilised society has,  fortunately.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by wcorkcanary

[Herman 9,777]

17 minutes ago, 1902 said:

This is an interesting point in general about anti vaccination personalities, nobody seems to consider how much of a personal stake they have in deriding vaccines. So many of them are 'wellness experts' with products to sell or journalists paid by fringe publications who go on endlessly about big pharma just being in it for profit. 

I'll add the seductive and addictive nature of the "15 minutes of fame" to the mix. Some of these people have become celebrities nearly overnight and I can't see them giving that up.

[Virtual reality 711]

2 minutes ago, 1902 said:

I understand your view, though i can't agree with it especially in this case. The issue with anti-vaxxers is that they believe they are protecting their health, by and large because they are misinformed by a seductive narrative. They believe that they are being responsible. 

I also think there needs to be a clear line in the sand drawn between genuine anti vaxers and then people who are anti vaccine passports, anti lockdown ect ect. People like to group them all together. I’ve had the virus and the vaccines. I am massively against discriminating against members of society based on a health decision. And quite honestly I can’t understand the mentality of someone who would be “pro lockdown” That surely has to be a worst case scenario last resort with all the damage that comes with that 

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

24 minutes ago, 1902 said:

I cut my hand on a circular saw once because I was distracted by a test match whilst cutting boards. Needed stitches. 

We all do stupid things and make bad decisions. Many of us will need NHS treatment when we do.

I have left the UK now, but before I did I paid taxes in the full knowledge that none of us make perfect decisions about our health and we all should shoulder some of that burden as part of a social compact. 

Yes but you didn't make a conscious decision to cut your hand off, the unvaccinated have made their decision wilfully. 

I'm not saying I advocate them not getting treated (it'll never come to that anyway), but it wouldn't anger me if it happened. 

[sgncfc 1,228]

I think the whole point of the NHS is "free at the point of care" i.e. how and why people need the care is irrelevant. If we're going to somehow lifestyle test healthcare we should probably not live in the UK.

The critical number is hospitalisations - nothing else really matters. Can the remaining staff care for those requiring it?

Rather than a lockdown, I suspect the 10 day isolation period needs reducing for symptom free positives in certain occupations. The data is all freely available on the government website. The vast majority of positives are having mild symptoms but there are currently approx 7,500 in hospital being treated, of which 875 are on ventilators. These numbers are not increasing overall, but they are starting to go up in London, which is slightly ahead of the rest of the UK for omicron. Too early to draw a conclusion, but in another week it should be possible to make the forecasts accurate rather than speculative.

This could still be the dream scenario (highly contagious but non-lethal for 99.999% of the population) and I suspect Boris is still hopeful of that.