In Defence of Farke

[Yellow and Green 352]

This is a bit of a tin hat post but I think it's important to step back sometimes and reflect on the bigger picture, rather than on a game-by-game basis.

1) Starting from the beginning, preseason went probably as bad as it could have gone. The covid outbreak wiped out half of our squad and resulted in half of our friendlies being cancelled. This was at a time when the new signings were meant to be settling in and getting to know each other and the new system that DF wanted to play. That setback left us in disarray and already at even more of a disadvantage to the other wealthy PL clubs.

2) Our opening fixtures were horrendous and we were sure to lose any confidence/momentum gained from our Championship winning season, even if we had a decent preseason. Instead, we had a half fit team who barely knew each other vs some of the best teams in the world. There was only going to be one outcome and taking a hammering is always going to knock the confidence. 

3) It's the hope that kills you and we seem to be on the wrong side of Lady Luck at almost every opportunity this season. Pretty much every offside call has gone (correctly) against us and it naturally sucks the confidence out of the players and the fans. 

4) A lot has been made of the formations and team selections this season but I have to say that DF can pick any formation and we'd still lose if the players make such basic errors three times a game. There have been moments in games when we have been well in with a chance of getting something, only to be let down by an individual error. We can't win with a shoddy defence, it's as simple as that.

5) Finally, we find ourselves with a squad completely devoid of confidence and two tricky away games to play. This will be Farke's biggest challenge of his reign and it's hard to see how he's going to get through it. 

So to defend Farke, COVID hampered his preperations, the confidence got drained in the first few games and the players are making individual errors left, right and centre. He's obviously not devoid of blame - far from it - but I think most managers would find it difficult. Unfortunately it just looks like his style of play isn't suited to a team trying to avoid relegation. I am of the belief that he would succeed at any club in the top 10 of the league but we lack the fight and steel needed to grind out points.

Going forwards, he needs to sort the defence out and make sure the boys put in a proper shift. Winning 50/50s, sprinting back, blocking tackles, blocking crosses, winning headers. Watching the Watford game, I had a flashback of Paul Lambert screaming "Don't get beat! Don't get f***ing beat!" for a whole 45 mins whenever there was a 1 vs 1 down the wing. I just don't see that with this team. I often see eight players jogging back, not pressing or challenging and appealing for offside before the goal is actually scored. That has to change. It's seems to be a collective problem and Farke needs to change that culture. I can accept being beaten by a goal of proper PL quality but not because we're weak. If we can do that, we will have something to build on and the confidence will start to grow.

This is a real challenge for Farke and true test of Webber's loyalty. 99% of fans are desperate for him to be the one to lead us in the PL for another 4 years but it's difficult to see him lasting 4 games if he doesn't stop the rot. 

 

[Number9 272]

2 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

This is a bit of a tin hat post but I think it's important to step back sometimes and reflect on the bigger picture, rather than on a game-by-game basis.

1) Starting from the beginning, preseason went probably as bad as it could have gone. The covid outbreak wiped out half of our squad and resulted in half of our friendlies being cancelled. This was at a time when the new signings were meant to be settling in and getting to know each other and the new system that DF wanted to play. That setback left us in disarray and already at even more of a disadvantage to the other wealthy PL clubs.

* Every person worldwide has dealt with covid, inc all the clubs in preseason. It wasn't just City.

 

2 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

2) Our opening fixtures were horrendous and we were sure to lose any confidence/momentum gained from our Championship winning season, even if we had a decent preseason. Instead, we had a half fit team who barely knew each other vs some of the best teams in the world. There was only going to be one outcome and taking a hammering is always going to knock the confidence. 

*so why not get your new players in early and at adjust tactics to counter the threat appropriate for the team you're playing. 

3) It's the hope that kills you and we seem to be on the wrong side of Lady Luck at almost every opportunity this season. Pretty much every offside call has gone (correctly) against us and it naturally sucks the confidence out of the players and the fans. 

* ****, you make your own luck.

4) A lot has been made of the formations and team selections this season but I have to say that DF can pick any formation and we'd still lose if the players make such basic errors three times a game. There have been moments in games when we have been well in with a chance of getting something, only to be let down by an individual error. We can't win with a shoddy defence, it's as simple as that.

*if players continually make the same mistake, blame the coach

5) Finally, we find ourselves with a squad completely devoid of confidence and two tricky away games to play. This will be Farke's biggest challenge of his reign and it's hard to see how he's going to get through it. 

So to defend Farke, COVID hampered his preperations, the confidence got drained in the first few games and the players are making individual errors left, right and centre. He's obviously not devoid of blame - far from it - but I think most managers would find it difficult. Unfortunately it just looks like his style of play isn't suited to a team trying to avoid relegation. I am of the belief that he would succeed at any club in the top 10 of the league but we lack the fight and steel needed to grind out points.

Going forwards, he needs to sort the defence out and make sure the boys put in a proper shift. Winning 50/50s, sprinting back, blocking tackles, blocking crosses, winning headers. Watching the Watford game, I had a flashback of Paul Lambert screaming "Don't get beat! Don't get f***ing beat!" for a whole 45 mins whenever there was a 1 vs 1 down the wing. I just don't see that with this team. I often see eight players jogging back, not pressing or challenging and appealing for offside before the goal is actually scored. That has to change. It's seems to be a collective problem and Farke needs to change that culture. I can accept being beaten by a goal of proper PL quality but not because we're weak. If we can do that, we will have something to build on and the confidence will start to grow.

This is a real challenge for Farke and true test of Webber's loyalty. 99% of fans are desperate for him to be the one to lead us in the PL for another 4 years but it's difficult to see him lasting 4 games if he doesn't stop the rot. 

 

 

[Yellow and Green 352]

"Every person worldwide has dealt with covid, inc all the clubs in preseason. It wasn't just City."

Not to that extent though. Not many, if any, PL teams had to cancel their friendlies. 

 

"so why not get your new players in early and at adjust tactics to counter the threat appropriate for the team you're playing."

Webber spoke how they were going to be more patient this time around. We wouldn't have been able to get Normann or Kabak if we were going to rush it.

I agree about the tactics, but the players need to do their bit too.

 

* ****, you make your own luck.

I agree to an extent. If we create more chances then we have a higher probability of scoring, for example. However I don't think you can pin a lot of these boarder line offside decisions (or missed penalties) on Farke. 

 

if players continually make the same mistake, blame the coach

Again, I agree to an extent - the buck stops with Farke - but I think it's more of a case of a lack of confidence. Once you get into a rut like this then it's difficult to stop. You can be sure that Farke is telling the players to stop the crosses and to win the headers in our box but the players have to deliver it on the pitch. Likewise, the players will be desperate to win but that psychological state can be devastating.

 

 

[Uncle Fred 526]

Deluded Delia apologist nonsense 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

 Actually I would argue Farke isn’t the problem. The recruitment was. You don’t sell your star player on promotion and succeed when your budget means you can only spend under the average in the division to replace them. We have managed to go into this season with a worse XI but better squad - criminal. But not Farke’s fault - for the second time he has been sent into battle without a gun - the Ajer decision sums it up. He’s proving an astute signing which we ducked out of 

[Deloredejesus 1]

How do Norwich keep getting it so wrong as they come up into the prem? There's still time this season of course but it doesnt look good so far. 

As a neutral (Liverpool fan) it seems the defence is always so poor. From Russel Martin to Grant Hanley, the CB position always seems weak.

Hanley was CB last prem campaign wasn't he so how can you still go in with the likes of him at CB when its been proven he isn't good enough for the prem. And he's probably one of the better ones, im sure he's good in Championship.

Mad signings aswell, usually technically good players but with poor athleticism like Lees Melou and Rupp. From all different leagues and nationalities usually. 

Just baffled how you can clean up in the Championship and struggle in the prem so much.

Would you rather see your team lose in the Prem or win every week in the Championship?

Good luck for the season. 

[HazzaJet 267]

17 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

 Actually I would argue Farke isn’t the problem. The recruitment was. You don’t sell your star player on promotion and succeed when your budget means you can only spend under the average in the division to replace them. We have managed to go into this season with a worse XI but better squad - criminal. But not Farke’s fault - for the second time he has been sent into battle without a gun - the Ajer decision sums it up. He’s proving an astute signing which we ducked out of 

I agree Buendia was our star player but I think one thing you don’t know is why we sold him - he wanted to move on. He’s had attitude problems in the past and I think if we’d not let him go we’d have only ended up facing the consequences of doing so

Edited September 22, 2021 by HazzaJet

[Coneys Knee 1,050]

21 minutes ago, Deloredejesus said:

How do Norwich keep getting it so wrong as they come up into the prem? There's still time this season of course but it doesnt look good so far. 

As a neutral (Liverpool fan) it seems the defence is always so poor. From Russel Martin to Grant Hanley, the CB position always seems weak.

Hanley was CB last prem campaign wasn't he so how can you still go in with the likes of him at CB when its been proven he isn't good enough for the prem. And he's probably one of the better ones, im sure he's good in Championship.

Mad signings aswell, usually technically good players but with poor athleticism like Lees Melou and Rupp. From all different leagues and nationalities usually. 

Just baffled how you can clean up in the Championship and struggle in the prem so much.

Would you rather see your team lose in the Prem or win every week in the Championship?

Good luck for the season. 

It’s tough (every other year) being a Norwich fan. I too am baffled at how we go about apparently staying in the premier league. It’s soul destroying but most of all it’s becoming embarrassing. 
 

You've hit the nail on the head when you say we lack athleticism and that’s a problem in this leaugue. I just can’t understand how they aren’t aware of this and if they are why they haven’t remedied it.

it also doesn’t help when you get promoted, sell your best player and fail to replace him and the exceptional loan player from last season.

sigh

Come on City

[Making Plans 957]

The use of the words "defence" and "Farke" in the same sentence is rather unfortunate.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

There are mitigating factors in terms of the transfer strategy snd the timings of arrivals in key positions. But fundamentally for me our biggest current issue is the coaching/drilling of the defence and the zonal cr*p. Mick McCarthy would have us doing better than we are because he’d at least sort that out. It’s costing us goals which are changing games and draining confidence. This issue is a Farke issue so he either needs to allow us to bring in someone to help him who can sort it or more fundamental action may unfortunately be needed.

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

 Actually I would argue Farke isn’t the problem. The recruitment was. You don’t sell your star player on promotion and succeed when your budget means you can only spend under the average in the division to replace them. We have managed to go into this season with a worse XI but better squad - criminal. But not Farke’s fault - for the second time he has been sent into battle without a gun - the Ajer decision sums it up. He’s proving an astute signing which we ducked out of 

So we should have kept Buendia and spent most of what would then have been the transfer budget for new players on one centre-half? So no adequate replacement for Skipp? No desperately needed extra striker? No extra cover at fullback? No badly needed improvement on Hernandez? No cover/replacement for Krul?

[ROBFLECK 134]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

 Actually I would argue Farke isn’t the problem. The recruitment was. You don’t sell your star player on promotion and succeed when your budget means you can only spend under the average in the division to replace them. We have managed to go into this season with a worse XI but better squad - criminal. But not Farke’s fault - for the second time he has been sent into battle without a gun - the Ajer decision sums it up. He’s proving an astute signing which we ducked out of 

I have to agree here... I was excited by the Tzolis signing and I still think this lad is a very good player and prospect , but not as a replacement of a stalwart , of a top notch assist provider etc... The Ajer debacle ... sigh ... just shows you they don't have the guts to go for it.
It's difficult to blame DF , as he does not have the talent at his disposal he had last season tbh! Skipp and Buendia are miles ahead of the young lads we have signed atm... and you don't get any time to adapt in the PL , you just don't. That's why you have to spend some money on players who are ready for the PL challenge and who are good enough...

[ROBFLECK 134]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

So we should have kept Buendia and spent most of what would then have been the transfer budget for new players on one centre-half? So no adequate replacement for Skipp? No desperately needed extra striker? No extra cover at fullback? No badly needed improvement on Hernandez? No cover/replacement for Krul?

Well I think that might have been a better idea than what we are witnessing now...

No seriously , a Skipp replacement was needed true , but could have been a loanee. And signing Gunn would have been possible too...even without selling Emi. 

What we are now seeing is a team that is hardly better than the one which played the last PL campaign...even worse in some areas.

Not because they all aren't good enough,  but they have been shaken and their confidence has gone. And they don't have the experience needed...

[ROBFLECK 134]

This yoyo'ing is going to stop too . Please don't think we'll walk the Championship again next season. Once you get to the PL you have to get it right!!!!

[Commonsense 802]

44 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

There are mitigating factors in terms of the transfer strategy snd the timings of arrivals in key positions. But fundamentally for me our biggest current issue is the coaching/drilling of the defence and the zonal cr*p. Mick McCarthy would have us doing better than we are because he’d at least sort that out. It’s costing us goals which are changing games and draining confidence. This issue is a Farke issue so he either needs to allow us to bring in someone to help him who can sort it or more fundamental action may unfortunately be needed.

Yup McCarthy did a great job down the road. Consistently keeping Ip**** in the Prem. Oh hang on!!!

[hogesar 10,765]

Bloody hell, there's some really good scouts and analysts on our forum. How on earth people can determine we haven't replaced Skipp adequately, when our purchased replacement has only played 60 minutes for us, is exceptional. Unless they watched Normann play every game last season, in which case I hold my hands up.

[Uncle Fred 526]

32 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

So we should have kept Buendia and spent most of what would then have been the transfer budget for new players on one centre-half? So no adequate replacement for Skipp? No desperately needed extra striker? No extra cover at fullback? No badly needed improvement on Hernandez? No cover/replacement for Krul?

Have we improved on Onel???

[lake district canary 4,830]

Thoroughly agree with the op. For us to do well at this level we need everything to work for us - the stars to align, if you like - and once again this season things have conspired to give us a very awkward and difficult start to the season.  To get Liverpool and Man City in the first two matches is unlucky - dare I say cruel - and the momentum has gone from last season - like it did two seasons ago with the injuries we had then.

Can Farke get it back?  I believe so, if the players keep their mentality and belief.  Farke says realistically that we are three points behind where we needed to be at, at this stage, given the fixtures we have had - so it isn't that bad really - except we have lost five games in a row - and last night didn't help proceedings, confidence wise.  Thte harping on about the ten games two seasons is unfortunate and an easy stick to add to our woes, but all it needs is a point, or a goal or two to set us back on the right track.

Mental strength is the key now - the players need to respond and respond well in the next two fixtures and dig in to make sure we get at least a point on  the board to stop the losing streak - and then we can build from there.  All to do, but there is everything to play for.

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

29 minutes ago, ROBFLECK said:

Well I think that might have been a better idea than what we are witnessing now...

No seriously , a Skipp replacement was needed true , but could have been a loanee. And signing Gunn would have been possible too...even without selling Emi. 

What we are now seeing is a team that is hardly better than the one which played the last PL campaign...even worse in some areas.

Not because they all aren't good enough,  but they have been shaken and their confidence has gone. And they don't have the experience needed...

And based on what posters are saying about Idah an extra striker was just as much a necessity as a Skipp replacement. I haven't seen any games this season but there is plainly, as you say, a lack of confidence. Oh for a win of any kind.

[ROBFLECK 134]

Yep , I don't see anything changing very soon. Those who think we will beat Everton on their home patch are living in cuckoo land

[Mello Yello 2,572]

The fish rots from the head......

[lake district canary 4,830]

2 minutes ago, ROBFLECK said:

Yep , I don't see anything changing very soon. Those who think we will beat Everton on their home patch are living in cuckoo land

"Cuckoo cuckoo".......calling out from cuckoo land here..........we did it last time - I would say don't under-estimate what farke can do - we were close to getting something against Leicester and away at Arsenal.  I'm not saying we will win, but a fighting draw would be a huge bonus and break this losing spell and of course getting us a point on the board.

[Yellow and Green 352]

1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

It’s tough (every other year) being a Norwich fan. I too am baffled at how we go about apparently staying in the premier league. It’s soul destroying but most of all it’s becoming embarrassing. 
 

You've hit the nail on the head when you say we lack athleticism and that’s a problem in this leaugue. I just can’t understand how they aren’t aware of this and if they are why they haven’t remedied it.

it also doesn’t help when you get promoted, sell your best player and fail to replace him and the exceptional loan player from last season.

sigh

Come on City

I think that is actually where I do blame Farke - he is very set in his philosophy of playing positive, attacking football. Our defence is easily exposed. As I alluded to in the OP, he is suited to a top 10 team with superior players. He's not suited to battling it out and fighting for a point. It's almost like he'd rather get relegated with a great style of play than stay up by grinding a few results out.

[Yellow and Green 352]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

 Actually I would argue Farke isn’t the problem. The recruitment was. You don’t sell your star player on promotion and succeed when your budget means you can only spend under the average in the division to replace them. We have managed to go into this season with a worse XI but better squad - criminal. But not Farke’s fault - for the second time he has been sent into battle without a gun - the Ajer decision sums it up. He’s proving an astute signing which we ducked out of 

The problem that I have with the recruitment is that we sign young, up and coming players and then blame the young, up and coming players for why we're losing. 

I understand that it's our model but there has to be a balance.

[Van wink 2,994]

Biggest problem is lack of confidence, in EVERYTHING   that we do, the only way to deal with that is by getting a good result, then you have something to build on, at the moment we are sitting on sand ( but not on the beach ) !

Edited September 22, 2021 by Van wink

[Thumbbass 367]

I agree with the points in the OP. I also think it took too long buy players at the right price and therefore they have missed preseason with us. We're now playing pre-season in public. It will settle and we have the players now but it could be too late.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Yellow and Green said:

The problem that I have with the recruitment is that we sign young, up and coming players and then blame the young, up and coming players for why we're losing. 

I understand that it's our model but there has to be a balance.

Young up and coming players are great in a Championship environment when they are in a winning side, it’s a totally different situation to having to fight and struggle for points against better teams. This may be why we have such a shift from being a top class Championship side but **** in the EPL

[Yellow and Green 352]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Biggest problem is lack of confidence, in EVERYTHING   that we do, the only way to deal with that is by getting a good result, then you have something to build on, at the moment we are sitting in sand ( but not on the beach ) !

Completely agree. 

The key is to have something to build on. Even a draw is a point on the board, positives can be drawn and we can go from there. 

The previous six games (excluding Bournemouth) have chipped away at our confidence and it's reminiscent of the end of the 19/20 season - you can see the effect that it has on the players. 

Call me a happy clapper, but all that we, as supporters, can do is to cheer them on - even when we go a goal down.

[Felixfan 53]

We have no players of Premier league quality. It’s that simple.

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

"Cuckoo cuckoo"......

The most sensible thing you've posted in a while.... 😉